It seems like Wintersun's mastermind Jari Mäenpää still has a lot to say about Time II after a recent update where he discussed the reasons for the delay of the album. This time, he talked about why he doesn't take the road of crowdfunding and didn't have a lot of nice things to say about the band's label, Nuclear Blast Records.

Jari posted a lengthy update: "Reality update about crowd funding, Time II and future albums: I'm very happy to see that we have so much dedicated fans that would be willing to pledge and be a part of funding a studio for Wintersun, so I could make the next Wintersun album without it taking another 10 years again.

"I've been thinking about this Kickstarter/Pledge crowd funding thing for a while and I'm very confident now that there is enough of you guys that would help us raise the money for the Wintersun studio! This would give me the freedom to make music efficiently and nonstop. It would eliminate lot of the problems I've struggled with all my life and still continue to struggle everyday. For example right now I need a studio to reamp guitars for Time II. And not just any studio, my own studio where I can craft my sounds exactly like I want them. 3rd party studios have never worked for me and I've never gotten satisfactory results for the insane prices they charge.

"I live in a small shitty apartment building and I have neighbors. It is very very hard to work like this. I can't record vocals, I can't practise my singing, I can't record guitars, I can't record guitars even with modelling amps, because the electricity is so bad in this shitty building so I get lots of interference, I even play and practise the electric guitar acoustically without an amp 99% of the time in my home, I can't record drums or basically any acoustic instruments, I don't have the room or cool space for a big computer farm which is a must for the orchestrations for the next album (the place is too small and hot even for the one computer I have), I can't mix properly, 'cause the room is so bad and there's always ambient noise in and outside the building. That's why I usually turn my sleeping rhythm around and mix at nights, but that causes problems in my everyday life. I can't do pretty much anything properly in this situation. Building a professional studio for Wintersun would erase all this and give us the freedom to make music nonstop. It would upgrade our album sound significantly and most importantly speed up the album making process significantly. This would even raise our live game. With proper preproduction, able to tweak our live sounds and setup properly we would sound pretty incredible live. We would also be able to rehearse more and that would allow us to be able to play live more often and come to places where we normally have not been able to come. The studio would allow us to have more time for everything.

"But the problem is this. I have a record deal with Nuclear Blast. If I would do a Kickstarter with a downloadable album for example, they would come with lawyers and take % share (more than half) away from the money that is your money meant for the Wintersun studio and the album production. Would you even want to pledge if Wintersun didn't get 100% of the money you've pledged for the album production? Then our management would take their % share away. Then there's taxes of course. The Finnish government would take something like 40% away. This would leave me nothing. I would be totally screwed. I've been trying to have a discussion with Nuclear Blast about crowd funding, but they are totally freaking out. They see the crowd funding as a threat to their business and they would rather see Wintersun dead, than me doing a crowd funding. I think this would not hurt them at all, only benefit them, but they cannot see the big picture of Wintersun doing well. They actually told me point blank that I should just stop making music and they will never release Wintersun from the contract. It's really like this, because they can't or won't loan me enough money to build a studio and fund an album, they don't want other people (the fans) to fund it either... unless they get a crazy big cut of the funding (for doing absolutely nothing).

"This is the way a record deal works: the label gives an advance to make an album. This is a loan and they will recoup every penny back from the record sales. The reason why Time I & II has taken so long to make (and still is taking long to finish Time II), is because I haven't gotten enough advances (money) to make these complex albums. Not even close. So I've been struggling all these years and sacrificed everything to make these albums. I have never really made any money from Wintersun. All my money has gone to album production, but you can guess who have made tons of money from Wintersun. The point is that I need my own studio to make the future albums, but Nuclear Blast won't be able to loan enough money to make that happen and then they won't allow me to do a crow funding campaign either that would make it happen. And even if Nuclear Blast would be able to loan me the money for the studio, our management would take their share of that money and I would get only part of the money, but I would still have to pay back 100% to Nuclear Blast from the record sales. So I would actually lose big chunk of the album production money straight away, which makes no sense at all. And then there's the taxes. So there's no point of taking these 'loans' either.

"This all is stressing me out very badly and it's slowing my workflow. I've got enough technical problems to deal with making these albums. I just want the freedom to make music, but I guess it is what it is. Honestly, I feel like I've signed a deal with the devil and I'm just a slave in the system. I've got probably 5 long albums worth of new insanely good material! And there's no filler material at all! The music is much more refined, much more advanced in arrangement/composition/productionwise. It's diverse and beautiful, heavy, chaotic and exploring different styles & themes and some new dimensions I feel no band has explored before... The stuff is simply on another level, in a different universe than the debut album and the Time albums combined. I wrote the Time albums around 2006 and before, that was a lifetime ago. Think of the stuff I've written ever since to this day! And I just keep on writing, I feel like I'm on fire. The music is just flowing out of me. I'm so excited about all this new music and I can't wait to start recording and sharing it with you... BUT I can't without a studio, that's the problem...

"P.S. Should have stayed working in the post office!"



UPDATE: And the plot thickens... Wintersun's label Nuclear Blast just responded to the statement made by the band's mastermind Jari Mäenpää. A petition was also launched demanding that Nuclear Blast "properly support Wintersun in allowing them to complete Time II."

Here is the statement released on Nuclear Blast's Facebook page: "Hey everyone, we are aware of Jari's recent statement on his current situation and business experiences with Nuclear Blast regarding the most anticipated Time II album. We highly appreciate the strong reactions this statement has caused in the metal community as it once more shows how much people care about their fellow metal heads and especially the musicians that go through many hardships to give us what we all enjoy the most: a good blast of METAL.

"We also have always been metal fans at heart and we still strive for the same goal we have since the formation of Nuclear Blast 27 years ago: To support our artists in the best way possible and to get the music everybody deserves out to our fans worldwide. This being said the business side of music can often be rough and especially with a project as extensive as the Time series compromises have to be found to make an album both beautiful and feasible to all parties involved - the musicians, the fans and the label. This process includes many things that should not be discussed in public as debates sometimes get heated and misunderstandings occur, but we take great pride in the relationship with our artists until this day.

"So be assured that we all love Wintersun as much as you do - nobody at Nuclear Blast wants to see them gone and we are working together with Jari and his management to find the optimal solution for his concerns. Stay true, Nuclear Blast."


Source: facebook.com
Band profile: Wintersun
 
Posted: 01.08.2014 by LeChron James



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Karlabos - 02.08.2014 at 01:04  
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 02.08.2014 at 00:36

Or Beherit, who spent the production money their label gave them on drugs

Haha! Good one. Wasn't aware of that
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 02.08.2014 at 00:44

Read Nuclear Blast's response. People believe him in droves.

Post the link on the thread =)
Darkside Momo - 02.08.2014 at 01:06  
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 02.08.2014 at 00:44

Read Nuclear Blast's response. People believe him in droves.

NB had to respond publicly in a positive manner, as the Jari still has quite a number of fans. They don't want to appear as greedy douchebags and lose customers.
That doesn't mean they believe in his pathetic excuses. They probably sent him a les-than-kind mail, about contractual obligations and stuff...
Maco - 02.08.2014 at 01:07  
Written by Karlabos on 02.08.2014 at 01:04

Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 02.08.2014 at 00:44

Read Nuclear Blast's response. People believe him in droves.

Post the link on the thread =)


The response is on the article.
!J.O.O.E.! - 02.08.2014 at 01:08  
Written by Darkside Momo on 02.08.2014 at 01:06

NB had to respond publicly in a positive manner, as the Jari still has quite a number of fans. They don't want to appear as greedy douchebags and lose customers.
That doesn't mean they believe in his pathetic excuses. They probably sent him a les-than-kind mail, about contractual obligations and stuff...

I meant the fans in the comments on Facebook. I'm sure NB think he's full of shit but of course can't say anything like that
Darkside Momo - 02.08.2014 at 01:10  
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 02.08.2014 at 01:08

I meant the fans in the comments on Facebook.

ah OK, didn't check those
Karlabos - 02.08.2014 at 01:15  
Written by Maco on 02.08.2014 at 01:07

The response is on the article.

Oh. haven't seen that update.
It wasn't there when I read the stuff. u.u
-Morbid- - 02.08.2014 at 03:05  
So what if he gets his studio and is free of the contract?

Quote:
Hey guys, I'm just really stressed here because all of this is hard. I've been thinking about the crowdfunding thing again, and I'm confident all of you are stupid loyal enough fans that you could help me provide what I need to keep going.

My sister is a jerk and only has a low quality printer, really it's unsuitable for printing album artwork so if I was able to get a nice quality laserjet printer I would be able to make the packaging much better for all you great fans! On the subject of packaging, the guy I hired to do the cover art is now demanding to be paid! If I were able to afford lessons at an art school for a few years, I would be able to make my own album cover art that could more properly convey my artistic vision to all of you!


Repeat for CD pressing, distribution, designing a website/webstore and so on.
Ilham - 02.08.2014 at 04:41  
Written by -Morbid- on 02.08.2014 at 03:05

So what if he gets his studio and is free of the contract?

Quote:
Hey guys, I'm just really stressed here because all of this is hard. I've been thinking about the crowdfunding thing again, and I'm confident all of you are stupid loyal enough fans that you could help me provide what I need to keep going.

My sister is a jerk and only has a low quality printer, really it's unsuitable for printing album artwork so if I was able to get a nice quality laserjet printer I would be able to make the packaging much better for all you great fans! On the subject of packaging, the guy I hired to do the cover art is now demanding to be paid! If I were able to afford lessons at an art school for a few years, I would be able to make my own album cover art that could more properly convey my artistic vision to all of you!


Repeat for CD pressing, distribution, designing a website/webstore and so on.


That was really funny. Like really funny.
BitterCOld - 02.08.2014 at 05:59  
We are getting close to moving Jari alongside Gaahl in the MS Drama Lifetime Achievement Award the more I think on this.
Lehctim - 02.08.2014 at 07:05  
He's an artist he's supposed to be crazy. You people need to chill the fuck out
The Evergreen - 02.08.2014 at 07:10  
Just wow... I get tough times in life. I get the artist's frustration at not having things the way you want. But...
This is life in the big city. As I once offered Jari beer till he fell over, I'd be happy to offer him my non-apartment reliably electrified basement and an audio engineer, but he won't take that. Why would he? He's in Finland and needs all to be perfect. I just wish he'd just get the album out already. His idea of perfection is different from most of us because we're not listening to the same damn audio tracks every day.
Stop beating the dead horse, Jari, and finish your work... or go back to the post office.
Unhealer - 02.08.2014 at 09:25  
He should just open the crowdfunding campaign under the title "I need money for my studio" and give nothing in return. I'm sure there will be a fair amount of fans willing to give him money anyway.
Stunning Cactus - 02.08.2014 at 10:15  
Kind of sad how so many of you jump to conclusions. We can assume all we want, but we don't know the exact circumstances.

And to those of you who compare Wintersun to other bands regarding why they can't simply get in a studio like others, Jari said it himself - he wants it to sound how he wants. Most bands have a producer with which they work; Jari IS the producer. A producer typically has a studio; Jari has no suitable studio. How is that hard to understand?

Also, record labels get the biggest cut of a band's music sales. Somewhere above 50%, if I'm not mistaken. Sure, they do a lot for a band, such as marketing and whatnot, but they didn't create the art. And don't forget to factor in distributors, publishers, session musicians (if any), producers, mixing and mastering engineers, managers, promoters, the list goes on. Bands receive an exceedingly low cut of the music sales as it is, so why should Jari be expected to both make music short of what he desires AND make hardly a dime off of it?

It would be a hell of a lot more reasonable to conclude (and for Jari to admit) that he underestimated both the extent of his intentions for his music and what Nuclear Blast was able to provide towards these endeavors. Calling Jari miscellaneous insulting terms makes you no better than he is, if he really is so terrible. Is he not clearly intensely frustrated with what he has versus what he is after? I can't imagine a single one of you being unable to relate to this feeling.

EDIT: And just to add my personal thoughts on his direction, I would say get out of the contract and get the crowdfunding for the studio. If he can't simply get out of the contract, then satisfy the contract until you can get out of it by making whatever it is that will satisfy NB, get through this hell and get to the freedom that would help this band flourish.
Dentura - 02.08.2014 at 11:46  
I regret to have signed the petition supposedly to "help" Jari out before having dug deeper into this whole situation (good thing I didn't offer money though). I initially thought the label was being unfair, but at the same time Nuclear Blast is one of the best and most reliable labels in the business so I side with them on this and not with Jari. He's being really unethical, crooked and seems to be delaying the next half of the Time album for some convoluted reason that would make no sense to anyone but himself. If the album ever comes out, I'll still listen to it, just not with the same fervor that I may have had before.
Sword_Chant - 02.08.2014 at 13:33  
Written by Dentura on 02.08.2014 at 11:46

I regret to have signed the petition supposedly to "help" Jari out before having dug deeper into this whole situation (good thing I didn't offer money though). I initially thought the label was being unfair, but at the same time Nuclear Blast is one of the best and most reliable labels in the business so I side with them on this and not with Jari. He's being really unethical, crooked and seems to be delaying the next half of the Time album for some convoluted reason that would make no sense to anyone but himself. If the album ever comes out, I'll still listen to it, just not with the same fervor that I may have had before.


^ Same here,

But tbh i'd rather an album take a while and get an album like Time I, not an Unsung Heroes...
Dentura - 02.08.2014 at 19:13  
Written by Sword_Chant on 02.08.2014 at 13:33

Written by Dentura on 02.08.2014 at 11:46

I regret to have signed the petition supposedly to "help" Jari out before having dug deeper into this whole situation (good thing I didn't offer money though). I initially thought the label was being unfair, but at the same time Nuclear Blast is one of the best and most reliable labels in the business so I side with them on this and not with Jari. He's being really unethical, crooked and seems to be delaying the next half of the Time album for some convoluted reason that would make no sense to anyone but himself. If the album ever comes out, I'll still listen to it, just not with the same fervor that I may have had before.


^ Same here,

But tbh i'd rather an album take a while and get an album like Time I, not an Unsung Heroes...

Yeah, I'm fine with the album taking a little while, I just don't like Jari making dumb excuses for why it's taking a while to make.
juanopereira - 02.08.2014 at 19:16  
The drama of the year? Jari crying because he has no money and lives in a shitty apartment
baldur - 03.08.2014 at 04:52  
Fucktard jari

nothing more to say
Athame - 03.08.2014 at 19:08  
I can't believe the kinds of responses this is getting. You guys are assholes. Seriously.
Troy Killjoy - 03.08.2014 at 19:53  
Written by Athame on 03.08.2014 at 19:08
I can't believe the kinds of responses this is getting. You guys are assholes. Seriously.

Assholes? How so? People here are tired of the lame excuses and lies from a musician who's in need of a reality check.
Rulatore - 03.08.2014 at 23:47  
Written by -Morbid- on 02.08.2014 at 03:05

So what if he gets his studio and is free of the contract?

Quote:
Hey guys, I'm just really stressed here because all of this is hard. I've been thinking about the crowdfunding thing again, and I'm confident all of you are stupid loyal enough fans that you could help me provide what I need to keep going.

My sister is a jerk and only has a low quality printer, really it's unsuitable for printing album artwork so if I was able to get a nice quality laserjet printer I would be able to make the packaging much better for all you great fans! On the subject of packaging, the guy I hired to do the cover art is now demanding to be paid! If I were able to afford lessons at an art school for a few years, I would be able to make my own album cover art that could more properly convey my artistic vision to all of you!


Repeat for CD pressing, distribution, designing a website/webstore and so on.

This is so... brilliant.

INÆRIS - 04.08.2014 at 11:14  
Jari, if you think the new material you're writing is better that both the debut and Time, why are you even focused on releasing Time II? I vote that you should move forward with new material and save Time II for some other time if you still think that it is worthwhile down the road. We've waited so many years, at this point it wouldn't matter if we waited ten more years. Besides, I would probably rather hear your new fresh and exciting material sooner than some frustrating burden called Time II.
Stunning Cactus - 04.08.2014 at 11:26  
Written by INÆRIS on 04.08.2014 at 11:14

Jari, if you think the new material you're writing is better that both the debut and Time, why are you even focused on releasing Time II? I vote that you should move forward with new material and save Time II for some other time if you still think that it is worthwhile down the road. We've waited so many years, at this point it wouldn't matter if we waited ten more years. Besides, I would probably rather hear your new fresh and exciting material sooner than some frustrating burden called Time II.


Finally, a polite, non-presumptuous comment complete with a hint of reason.
Lit. - 04.08.2014 at 16:18  
Honestly, I'm amazed people still care about this guy.

Then again, I'm amazed people cared about him to begin with, but still...
Boxcar Willy - 05.08.2014 at 17:40  
Oh boo fucking hoo, my apartment sucks, my electricity sucks. Cry me a fucking river.


I'm with Lit. Why do people care? It's obvious this is never going to happen.
Slayer666 - 05.08.2014 at 18:06  
Well you can't blame the guy for wanting more money. Every artist needs hookers and cocaine decent working conditions. I'm sure this dude is just a lazy, entitled fucktard Jari is being screwed over by Nuclear Blast big time. They should really be ashamed of expecting you to the deliver the goddamn material they already fucking paid for taking advantage of brilliant, starving artists.

This is like the time he made up some bullshit excuse about his computer and idiot fanboys fell for it he had problems with how common computers he had access to were not capable of making his immense artistic vision happen because the music was just too complex and layered for those computers' processing power. I really hope he would stop being such a bitch and gets his delusions of grandeur checked out for a better world, where such a brilliant mind that gave us the absolute pile of mediocrity masterpiece that was Wintersun wouldn't have to scrape and borrow to make his visions come true.

Jari, pull your head out of your ass, stay strong and proud. We wish you the best of luck and hope that pretentious pit of mediocrity you probably haven't even started working on the sequel to the mighty Time will come soon and will be your most overrated greatest work to date!
Ilham - 05.08.2014 at 18:22  
This thread is turning into a creative writing class.
Troy Killjoy - 05.08.2014 at 18:24  
Ya Slayer you really committed to that joke.
Slayer666 - 05.08.2014 at 18:28  
Yeah, I'm thinking of dropping out of computer science and pursuing sarcastic writing instead. The Internet needs more assholes, after all.
WinterMadness - 06.08.2014 at 03:13  
I love how people who aren't even fans of Wintersun go out of their way to comment on this post just to bitch and insult Jari. I fully agree he's being ridiculous, but come on.
Ilham - 06.08.2014 at 03:15  
What? There's comedy gold in here. Smile a little sourpuss.
Troy Killjoy - 06.08.2014 at 03:21  
It's a good place for people to vent their frustrations or to pass by with a comment or two they think might get a laugh out of someone else

no harm no foul, it's not like jari looks up metal storm news articles to see what people are saying about him.

actually, knowing what i know about the way he procrastinates, it wouldn't surprise me if he did just that.

(if so, sorry not sorry.)
Ilham - 06.08.2014 at 03:31  
Nah he needs a better computer to be able to surf the interwebs in better conditions.
Troy Killjoy - 06.08.2014 at 03:36  
These jokes practically write themselves.

part of me feels bad for the guy. like a fraction of a percentage, but i can't not empathize a little, especially since i don't have all the details - it's just in my nature to be like that. that said, his circlejerk fanbase will always be there for him so... it ain't that bad
Ilham - 06.08.2014 at 03:40  
Yeah, there's a saying in French that goes like "in the realm of the blind, the one eyed-man is king". He'll be fine, I can't feel bad for him, I don't have thousands of people throwing money at me.
Karlabos - 06.08.2014 at 03:44  
Written by Troy Killjoy on 06.08.2014 at 03:21

it's not like jari looks up metal storm news articles to see what people are saying about him.
actually, knowing what i know about the way he procrastinates, it wouldn't surprise me if he did just that.

Yeah, actually I am Jari. I just put "Brazil" on my profile because I didn't want people to suspect...
And these comments tear my heart apart...


You know what? Now that I'm not gonna do Time II !
Ilham - 06.08.2014 at 03:58  
Karla, you just ended a string of funny jokes.
AngelofDeth - 07.08.2014 at 22:26  
He just posted another update on their FB, I would copy/paste but its like 5 pages long. He literally wrote an essay of complaints...

He did mention he didn't like the mix of TIME I though, which I actuallyy understand, the mix is what ruined the album for me. But he cites the problem that he didn't have a powerful enough computer and personal studio, personally I think the problem was the amount of tracks on each song, no matter how much you mix it it will still sound like a muddy overload, a personal studio wont fix that..
Maco - 07.08.2014 at 22:45  
More reality
Karlabos - 07.08.2014 at 22:52  
"...I feel like I need to explain the situation more clearly as some people seem to be a bit confused. So let´s get more into the details…
Let´s get one thing clear first, I don´t live in a fantasy world..."


Do you think the guy was reading what was posted here?
Ilham - 07.08.2014 at 23:32  
Written by Karlabos on 07.08.2014 at 22:52
"...I feel like I need to explain the situation more clearly as some people seem to be a bit confused. So let´s get more into the details…
Let´s get one thing clear first, I don´t live in a fantasy world..."

Do you think the guy was reading what was posted here?
Dude, I hope so. But it doesn't seem to work.
Dark Cornatus - 08.08.2014 at 03:25  
Quote:

There´s only a handful of rhythm guitar sounds I like from the millions of heavy metal records out there, so you can imagine how hard it is for me to be able to produce the guitar sound of my dreams in few days in a 3rd party studio. Impossible.


There's only a handful of women i'd rate 10/10 from the millions of females out there, so you could imagine how hard it is for me to be able to produce a date with the woman of my dreams in a few days in my shitty home town. Impossible.
Hex_Omega - 08.08.2014 at 16:56  
Hey stop posting here, we have new thread about Wintersun already
metalody - 08.08.2014 at 21:20  
I think N.B. should actually consider investing for a Wintersun studio. They are a huge label, sure they can afford it. If Yari, says that he has a lot of material for a number of studio albums, they will earn a lot of money in the long term. I believe that WINTERSUN are a TOP band. In twenty years time they could be as huge as MAIDEN or METALLICA in the extreme metal circles. They should have their chance.
Ilham - 08.08.2014 at 21:22  
Written by metalody on 08.08.2014 at 21:20

I think N.B. should actually consider investing for a Wintersun studio. They are a huge label, sure they can afford it. If Yari, says that he has a lot of material for a number of studio albums, they will earn a lot of money in the long term. I believe that WINTERSUN are a TOP band. In twenty years time they could be as huge as MAIDEN or METALLICA in the extreme metal circles. They should have their chance.





Lol.
Lord_Regnier - 09.08.2014 at 00:41  
Written by metalody on 08.08.2014 at 21:20

I think N.B. should actually consider investing for a Wintersun studio. They are a huge label, sure they can afford it. If Yari, says that he has a lot of material for a number of studio albums, they will earn a lot of money in the long term. I believe that WINTERSUN are a TOP band. In twenty years time they could be as huge as MAIDEN or METALLICA in the extreme metal circles. They should have their chance.


Wintersun will never achieve 1% of the commercial success Iron Maiden and Metallica obtained in their careers.
metalody - 10.08.2014 at 21:14  
You are a bit hard on them my friend. They deliver good stuff. Even having only one and half album in their bags do far. But i have the feeling that Time 2 is going to be great.
Bugman - 28.08.2014 at 01:31  
Can we all agree that MS Drama of the Year 2014 is already assigned_
poison-evie - 30.08.2014 at 06:20  
Wooow.
well, this isn't the first time I've heard Nuclear Blast horror stories...
Hang in there, Jari <3

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