Wintersun - Issue Update Regarding Crowdfunding, 'Time II' (Update)


It seems like Wintersun's mastermind Jari Mäenpää still has a lot to say about Time II after a recent update where he discussed the reasons for the delay of the album. This time, he talked about why he doesn't take the road of crowdfunding and didn't have a lot of nice things to say about the band's label, Nuclear Blast Records.

Jari posted a lengthy update: "Reality update about crowd funding, Time II and future albums: I'm very happy to see that we have so much dedicated fans that would be willing to pledge and be a part of funding a studio for Wintersun, so I could make the next Wintersun album without it taking another 10 years again.

"I've been thinking about this Kickstarter/Pledge crowd funding thing for a while and I'm very confident now that there is enough of you guys that would help us raise the money for the Wintersun studio! This would give me the freedom to make music efficiently and nonstop. It would eliminate lot of the problems I've struggled with all my life and still continue to struggle everyday. For example right now I need a studio to reamp guitars for Time II. And not just any studio, my own studio where I can craft my sounds exactly like I want them. 3rd party studios have never worked for me and I've never gotten satisfactory results for the insane prices they charge.

"I live in a small shitty apartment building and I have neighbors. It is very very hard to work like this. I can't record vocals, I can't practise my singing, I can't record guitars, I can't record guitars even with modelling amps, because the electricity is so bad in this shitty building so I get lots of interference, I even play and practise the electric guitar acoustically without an amp 99% of the time in my home, I can't record drums or basically any acoustic instruments, I don't have the room or cool space for a big computer farm which is a must for the orchestrations for the next album (the place is too small and hot even for the one computer I have), I can't mix properly, 'cause the room is so bad and there's always ambient noise in and outside the building. That's why I usually turn my sleeping rhythm around and mix at nights, but that causes problems in my everyday life. I can't do pretty much anything properly in this situation. Building a professional studio for Wintersun would erase all this and give us the freedom to make music nonstop. It would upgrade our album sound significantly and most importantly speed up the album making process significantly. This would even raise our live game. With proper preproduction, able to tweak our live sounds and setup properly we would sound pretty incredible live. We would also be able to rehearse more and that would allow us to be able to play live more often and come to places where we normally have not been able to come. The studio would allow us to have more time for everything.

"But the problem is this. I have a record deal with Nuclear Blast. If I would do a Kickstarter with a downloadable album for example, they would come with lawyers and take % share (more than half) away from the money that is your money meant for the Wintersun studio and the album production. Would you even want to pledge if Wintersun didn't get 100% of the money you've pledged for the album production? Then our management would take their % share away. Then there's taxes of course. The Finnish government would take something like 40% away. This would leave me nothing. I would be totally screwed. I've been trying to have a discussion with Nuclear Blast about crowd funding, but they are totally freaking out. They see the crowd funding as a threat to their business and they would rather see Wintersun dead, than me doing a crowd funding. I think this would not hurt them at all, only benefit them, but they cannot see the big picture of Wintersun doing well. They actually told me point blank that I should just stop making music and they will never release Wintersun from the contract. It's really like this, because they can't or won't loan me enough money to build a studio and fund an album, they don't want other people (the fans) to fund it either... unless they get a crazy big cut of the funding (for doing absolutely nothing).

"This is the way a record deal works: the label gives an advance to make an album. This is a loan and they will recoup every penny back from the record sales. The reason why Time I & II has taken so long to make (and still is taking long to finish Time II), is because I haven't gotten enough advances (money) to make these complex albums. Not even close. So I've been struggling all these years and sacrificed everything to make these albums. I have never really made any money from Wintersun. All my money has gone to album production, but you can guess who have made tons of money from Wintersun. The point is that I need my own studio to make the future albums, but Nuclear Blast won't be able to loan enough money to make that happen and then they won't allow me to do a crow funding campaign either that would make it happen. And even if Nuclear Blast would be able to loan me the money for the studio, our management would take their share of that money and I would get only part of the money, but I would still have to pay back 100% to Nuclear Blast from the record sales. So I would actually lose big chunk of the album production money straight away, which makes no sense at all. And then there's the taxes. So there's no point of taking these 'loans' either.

"This all is stressing me out very badly and it's slowing my workflow. I've got enough technical problems to deal with making these albums. I just want the freedom to make music, but I guess it is what it is. Honestly, I feel like I've signed a deal with the devil and I'm just a slave in the system. I've got probably 5 long albums worth of new insanely good material! And there's no filler material at all! The music is much more refined, much more advanced in arrangement/composition/productionwise. It's diverse and beautiful, heavy, chaotic and exploring different styles & themes and some new dimensions I feel no band has explored before... The stuff is simply on another level, in a different universe than the debut album and the Time albums combined. I wrote the Time albums around 2006 and before, that was a lifetime ago. Think of the stuff I've written ever since to this day! And I just keep on writing, I feel like I'm on fire. The music is just flowing out of me. I'm so excited about all this new music and I can't wait to start recording and sharing it with you... BUT I can't without a studio, that's the problem...

"P.S. Should have stayed working in the post office!"



UPDATE: And the plot thickens... Wintersun's label Nuclear Blast just responded to the statement made by the band's mastermind Jari Mäenpää. A petition was also launched demanding that Nuclear Blast "properly support Wintersun in allowing them to complete Time II."

Here is the statement released on Nuclear Blast's Facebook page: "Hey everyone, we are aware of Jari's recent statement on his current situation and business experiences with Nuclear Blast regarding the most anticipated Time II album. We highly appreciate the strong reactions this statement has caused in the metal community as it once more shows how much people care about their fellow metal heads and especially the musicians that go through many hardships to give us what we all enjoy the most: a good blast of METAL.

"We also have always been metal fans at heart and we still strive for the same goal we have since the formation of Nuclear Blast 27 years ago: To support our artists in the best way possible and to get the music everybody deserves out to our fans worldwide. This being said the business side of music can often be rough and especially with a project as extensive as the Time series compromises have to be found to make an album both beautiful and feasible to all parties involved - the musicians, the fans and the label. This process includes many things that should not be discussed in public as debates sometimes get heated and misunderstandings occur, but we take great pride in the relationship with our artists until this day.

"So be assured that we all love Wintersun as much as you do - nobody at Nuclear Blast wants to see them gone and we are working together with Jari and his management to find the optimal solution for his concerns. Stay true, Nuclear Blast."

Source: facebook.com
Band profile: Wintersun
 
Posted: 01.08.2014 by LeChron James


Comments

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Comments: 98   Visited by: 496 users
01.08.2014 - 11:37
Death
These guys do really need some financial support.
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01.08.2014 - 11:41
Zaph
The Nothingth
"I need a studio to reamp guitars for Time II. And not just any studio, my own studio where I can craft my sounds exactly like I want them. "

This guy is so out of touch with the world, it's not even funny.
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Wubba Lubba Dub Dub
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01.08.2014 - 11:59
M C Vice
Ex-polydactyl
I take it none of the bands on the NB stable have a studio that they're willing to let him use?
Anyway, cheap studio? Reopen Heavenshore Studio.
----
Mum - 21/10/1955 - 19/6/2015. R.I.P.

"I'll fight you on one condition. That you lower your nipples."
"Thinking quickly, Dave constructs a homemade megaphone using only some string, a squirrel and a megaphone."
Sharks 2016 Premier
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01.08.2014 - 13:06
Zadion
It sounds to me like he wants to be able to make money off his music (as any musician should) and still be able to make his music exactly 100% like he wants it (also as any musician should), but his vision is too meticulous, complex, and grand for him to be able to realize either of these goals. It sucks; I hope he can figure something out. Time I really was super pretentious and a testament to how pompous he is - I love the album (way more than the self-titled in fact), but it's a shining example of why he's having so much trouble.
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01.08.2014 - 13:11
Koda
Okay this is completely FUCKED up... Nuclear Blast should be fucking ashamed, without these amazing bands, they wouldn't be shit.
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01.08.2014 - 14:23
Sword_Chant
Jari's in such a negative mindset atm... that's evident from the last two Time II updates. Surely they can consider changing the band name for their new material and drop the NB label completely. I'm pretty convinced there are other labels who would be interested in fixing them up a deal that would work in their favor (both financially and musically).

Written by Koda on 01.08.2014 at 13:11

Okay this is completely FUCKED up... Nuclear Blast should be fucking ashamed, without these amazing bands, they wouldn't be shit.

I found a petition that is for NB to give Wintersun better support with completing Time II - you can sign the petition here: https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/nuclear-blast-gmbh-properly-support-wintersun-in-allowing-them-to-complete-time-ii
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01.08.2014 - 15:24
Wes
Written by Koda on 01.08.2014 at 13:11

Okay this is completely FUCKED up... Nuclear Blast should be fucking ashamed, without these amazing bands, they wouldn't be shit.


Man I know, it's just frustrating.

Pretty exciting though that he has so much new material. I'd love to hear it, even if the production quality was like the self titled : /
But the man has a vision, and not many people are that stubborn. Sure he will get flamed for this, but who else is that damn adamant about producing something so visionary? I love it and expect nothing less.
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01.08.2014 - 15:31
qlacs
"The Quaker"
Imagine this from both ends.

Jari spent YEARS of producing NOTHING. In that 6 year period (cut down 2 due to extensive touring after the self-titled) he could've done whatever it takes. I'm pretty sure NB did give him the support he required some time ago, but they also fed up with all the promises.
Whatever big dreams he has, he should step back to Earth on both his feet and figure out what he really wants. Is Time II more complex than Time I? Good because I couldn't hear the complexity anyway.
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01.08.2014 - 15:52
Ilham
Giant robot
This.
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01.08.2014 - 15:53
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Written by Ilham on 01.08.2014 at 15:52

This.


Absolutely.

Like I said in the shoutbox earlier today he should seek professional psychiatric help.
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Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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01.08.2014 - 16:03
Karlabos
Weirdo of MS
I never listened to Wintersun. But the threads about them are sure fun to read =)
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2016

2017
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01.08.2014 - 16:42
D.T. Metal
Editor In Chief
Would you like some cheese with your WHINE !!!
Quote:
It's really like this, because they can't or won't loan me enough money to build a studio and fund an album, they don't want other people (the fans) to fund it either... unless they get a crazy big cut of the funding (for doing absolutely nothing).

Quote:
The point is that I need my own studio to make the future albums..

Quote:
The music is just flowing out of me. I'm so excited about all this new music and I can't wait to start recording and sharing it with you... BUT I can't without a studio, that's the problem...

Nuclear Blast gave him money YEEEEEARS ago for the production of Time II and that, at one point, they say 'enough is enough, where is the product' is more than fair. All I hear is complaining. I wonder how ALL the other bands who have a label deal manage to release albums?
Grow a pair dude!
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01.08.2014 - 16:51
Ilham
Giant robot
Written by Karlabos on 01.08.2014 at 16:03

I never listened to Wintersun. But the threads about them are sure fun to read =)

I don't think you'd like it. But then again you have a power metal thread opened.
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01.08.2014 - 16:54
BitterCOld
Gringo
On one hand it sucks that greedy hands will cut into any crowdsourced revenue.

on the other, suck it up, buttercup. as pointed out, NB has fronted him money and a long Long LONG delay on any return on their investment. i don't think it horrible for a label to expect to at least break even on releases, let alone make a little bit of cash to get paychecks or utilize resources to help other acts under their banner.

i'm listening to Darkthrone as i type. i know they haven't made a killing off their albums and Fenriz (unlike J) still works at the post office. somehow they developed their own studio.

should just use what he has, make an album to satisfy the contract, then strike out on his own. at least he's lucky enough, in theory, to have legions of fans lobbing cash at him. he can enjoy being free from greedy labels... and can take on all the other responsibilities they cover (taking care of cd pressing, distro, promotion, concert/tour arrangement/support) on his own.
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get the fuck off my lawn.
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01.08.2014 - 17:02
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist
This guy is so full of cheese, acting like the label's to blame for his delusions of grandeur.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
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01.08.2014 - 17:18
!J.O.O.E.!
Defunct
The funniest part is when he blames his neighbours. Fuck you Mrs. Biggins from number 23! You're the reason we haven't had a new Time album!
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01.08.2014 - 17:27
Ilham
Giant robot
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 01.08.2014 at 17:18

The funniest part is when he blames his neighbours. Fuck you Mrs. Biggins from number 23! You're the reason we haven't had a new Time album!

Let's not even talk about the Bingleys. They're always at it! I mean they have three kids, how do they manage?

I personally prefer the part about the size of his place. It almost sounds like he wants crowdfunding to be able to afford a bigger place.
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01.08.2014 - 17:33
!J.O.O.E.!
Defunct
Written by Ilham on 01.08.2014 at 17:27

Let's not even talk about the Bingleys. They're always at it! I mean they have three kids, how do they manage?

I personally prefer the part about the size of his place. It almost sounds like he wants crowdfunding to be able to afford a bigger place.

Yeah that's probably it. The swine wants to move into his studio, with the balcony, and the jacuzzi, and the mini-bar. All very important aspects in getting the dynamics of Wintersun's sound right.
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01.08.2014 - 17:37
Karlabos
Weirdo of MS
Written by Ilham on 01.08.2014 at 16:51

Written by Karlabos on 01.08.2014 at 16:03

I never listened to Wintersun. But the threads about them are sure fun to read =)

I don't think you'd like it. But then again you have a power metal thread opened.

But that's a "power metal with a plus" thread u.u
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2016

2017
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01.08.2014 - 17:43
Ilham
Giant robot
Written by Karlabos on 01.08.2014 at 17:37

But that's a "power metal with a plus" thread u.u

There you go! This is power metal plus lies .
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01.08.2014 - 18:19
a MasT
Lol wow they sound wounded. Their response is like "come on guys don't be mad, we're working on it"
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01.08.2014 - 18:22
Dima
What a pathetic little tit sink
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01.08.2014 - 18:25
!J.O.O.E.!
Defunct
I don't even know what that is but it describes Jari perfectly.
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01.08.2014 - 18:28
Mr. Doctor
Skandino
This news made me TRY to listen to the albums but I can't fucking finish them. Jeez all this drama for this dull shit?
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Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29
Like you could kiss my ass
Written by Milena on 20.06.2012 at 10:49
Rod, let me love you.
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01.08.2014 - 18:33
Alex F
Written by Dima on 01.08.2014 at 18:22

What a pathetic little tit sink

From this day forth Jari is a tit sink. Seriously fuck that guy.
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01.08.2014 - 18:44
Ilham
Giant robot
Written by Mr. Doctor on 01.08.2014 at 18:28

This news made me TRY to listen to the albums but I can't fucking finish them. Jeez all this drama for this dull shit?

You mean you didn't try before? I think it was Barry who guilt-tripped me into trying the first one like... a very long time ago.
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01.08.2014 - 19:12
Karlabos
Weirdo of MS
Written by Ilham on 01.08.2014 at 17:43

Written by Karlabos on 01.08.2014 at 17:37

But that's a "power metal with a plus" thread u.u

There you go! This is power metal plus lies .

Oh.
Then I should totally listen to it asap =)
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2016

2017
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01.08.2014 - 19:13
Koda
Quote:
Man I know, it's just frustrating.

Pretty exciting though that he has so much new material. I'd love to hear it, even if the production quality was like the self titled : /
But the man has a vision, and not many people are that stubborn. Sure he will get flamed for this, but who else is that damn adamant about producing something so visionary? I love it and expect nothing less.


Agreed completely.
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01.08.2014 - 19:14
Zaph
The Nothingth
Written by BitterCOld on 01.08.2014 at 16:54

as pointed out, NB has fronted him money and a long Long LONG delay on any return on their investment. i don't think it horrible for a label to expect to at least break even on releases, let alone make a little bit of cash to get paychecks or utilize resources to help other acts under their banner.

I'm sure some bands would kill for a contract with a major label like Nuclear Blast.

Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 01.08.2014 at 17:18

The funniest part is when he blames his neighbours. Fuck you Mrs. Biggins from number 23! You're the reason we haven't had a new Time album!

Hahaha yes
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Wubba Lubba Dub Dub
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01.08.2014 - 19:16
Vombatus
Potorro
I can't believe a good selling band signed on NB needs crowfunding to make music.

Greedy bastard he is. But that would be just one of the many problems this guy has.
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