Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 16.12.2014 at 02:32

Written by angel. on 15.12.2014 at 09:41

Dear deadone, there is a funny idiom in Farsi as it says : "coloring a donkey" which completely defines the incident you posted above and the way it was reported. It's really funny, pay closer attention to the event : 1. The person enters the cafe ( only one person !) and commits hostage taking with weapons reportedly.
2. A cafe right in the middle of town
3. Then a big number of police rushes into the cafe
4. For what on Earth, someone commits such idiotic hostage
5. What was the exact purpose of it
6.The hostage taker couldn't even dream of growing magical wings and fly out of the cafe with the hostages
7. So what was the outcome of such action ? Just putting the hostage taker at risk of getting arrested and then harshest punishments ?
Come on wake up, you're watching the most perfect show evar written down for your simple minds. Go deeper down to the issues. There's much bigger plans for us.

Sorry, but are you really suggesting this hostage taking was staged by non-Muslims to discret Muslims?

Yeah, right and 911 was also an inside job. Keep on dreaming.

Well, 9/11 was an inside job, that should be clear as day to anyone who has done any research, we are just wondering about the extent of it. False Flag operations are nothing new. But we digress.

Everything that deadone is saying is correct. We are dealing with a death cult, that in some areas is still dormant, but the slightest thing can ignite the spark. Islam cannot be compared to Christianity at all, one was evolved the other one has digressed even deeper in the radical mindset. The instances of this kind of violence will not cease, I just can't fathom people still defending Islam and telling us that we are wrong. Like I said before, the only reason muslims are peaceful in some EU countries and the USA is because they do not constitute a majority. However, I am still waiting for an explanation in the case of Dearborn Michigan, where there are 30000 Muslims, that basically pushed every Non Muslim out, and have their own regulations, I even hear that Sharia is in full force over there, but I can't verify that yet. So, any of you Muslim defenders and Islam supporters, how did this come to be if the Muslims only want to integrate into the Western society?

I think everyone on this thread gets the point that radical islamists who don't want to integrate in western socities and prefer Sharia and all their crap are a danger for all. No fucking need to write a paragraphe about it in every single post. Jesus, talk about beating a dead horse.

Written by Vombatus on 16.12.2014 at 18:44

I think everyone on this thread gets the point that radical islamists who don't want to integrate in western socities and prefer Sharia and all their crap are a danger for all. No fucking need to write a paragraphe about it in every single post. Jesus, talk about beating a dead horse.

More like a triviality.
The questions where it comes from and what to do with it are much less trivial and are pretty much what the discussions revolve around.

Parts of the European left publish jihadist apologetics - blaming "the powerful" and out-right romantizing 'minority' violence, while Muslim reformists (those moderates who some people have trouble finding, and when found seem to be totally ignored), like Maajid Nawaz, condemn it out-right:
"126 killed, including at least 84 children. If grievances radicalise Muslims against things, can we now get radicalised against the Pakistani Taliban & their Islamist ideology?"
Another one:
"126 dead, roughly 84 of them children. No, it is not sufficient merely condemning this latest Taliban school attack. How low has our bar sunk? All of us must uproot the entire Islamist ideology, completely."
Or his latest:
"Taliban jihadists kill 126, among them 84 children, but apparently we must stop calling them Islamists, we must "understand" why they're so angry, and "the West" must say sorry."

What's the difference? One is actually willing to grapple the problem and sees people from his own background - as people - and does not patronize them as objects. Some Europeans actually believe that ideology is a matter of "education" and "social class" while ignoring any cognitive aspect - upbringing, culture, religion, biography, type of education, the incitement, the deluded worldview and press - all those things which play an active role in our decision making - because they will be seen as "racist".

And again, who are those who suffer from it? Not the European bourgeoisies - the spoilt ethnocentric appeasers, who have zero experience in things they like to gossip about while the tea cools down. the less fortunate will.

Written by deadone on 16.12.2014 at 15:21

Written by Guest on 16.12.2014 at 08:51

I feel for the people trying to escape there shitty countries with there shitty religions and start a new life, but then instantly being bundled in to a the "terrorist" category and told to fuck off.

Quote:
Maybe if they didn't go out of their way to be hostile to us, if some of them and their kids didn't become jihads/terrorists, if they respected our laws and culture.

You don't hear us going on about Greek or Maltese or Chinese or Vietnamese migrants now do you?

it's because those migrants people aren't in the paper doing terrorist acts everyday

there are some people coming over these ways to believe in religions they aren't allowed to believe in there own country or just to start a new life with no religion at all, people who really value the way we live and want to become a part of it.

Quote:

I myself see religion as a way to live, usually a way to live better and improve your life, sometimes a supernatural being is used as a tool to help. Even though religion is the cause of a lot conflict and war, it actually helps a lot of people out and saves peoples lives. It's easy to pass off religion as a bad thing, especially when all you here about in the media is the bad and hypocritical things that happen, you never hear about the good things like when people turn around there fucked up lives from, drug abuse, anger problems, and so on. Whether it's bull shit or not what they believe, it helped them change there lives and become better people.
Religions not always a bad thing, just saying.

Totally understand where you are coming from.

The only problem here is that Islam has a lot of rules that are completely incompatible with western values - inbuilt massive gender inequality, religious intolerance, lack of personal choice and clauses relating to application of violence.

Then there's the cultural things bolted on over the centuries - death for atheists, apostates, homosexuals, honour killings, genital mutilation. Peodophilia was inbuilt from the start (Mohhammad married a 9 year old)

Now Islam is varied but most Muslims don't live in first world countries or first world standards where modern ideas have filtered through. Hence in Pakistan it's quite acceptable for an enraged mob to want to kill a Downs syndrome kid for allegedly defacing the Koran. And a lot that do have access to better lives seem to be choosing Islamism and where possible voting for more Islamist political parties ala Egypt (Muslim Brotherhood), Turkey (Erdogan and co) and Malaysia (Pan Malaysian Islamist Party).


And unlike Christianity which got separated from daily life over centuries, Islam has actually been increasing.

In essence I don't see Islam contributing much good to human society since the 1970s when large chunks of it started heading backwards. In fact it's main product is strife.

well obviously islams not a good religion, i was just going by something you said earlier about there being no need for any religion or something like that

Written by Candlemass on 16.12.2014 at 19:48

More like a triviality.
The questions where it comes from and what to do with it are much less trivial and are pretty much what the discussions revolve around.

Parts of the European left publish jihadist apologetics - blaming "the powerful" and out-right romantizing 'minority' violence, while Muslim reformists (those moderates who some people have trouble finding, and when found seem to be totally ignored), like Maajid Nawaz, condemn it out-right:
"126 killed, including at least 84 children. If grievances radicalise Muslims against things, can we now get radicalised against the Pakistani Taliban & their Islamist ideology?"
Another one:
"126 dead, roughly 84 of them children. No, it is not sufficient merely condemning this latest Taliban school attack. How low has our bar sunk? All of us must uproot the entire Islamist ideology, completely."
Or his latest:
"Taliban jihadists kill 126, among them 84 children, but apparently we must stop calling them Islamists, we must "understand" why they're so angry, and "the West" must say sorry."

What's the difference? One is actually willing to grapple the problem and sees people from his own background - as people - and does not patronize them as objects. Some Europeans actually believe that ideology is a matter of "education" and "social class" while ignoring any cognitive aspect - upbringing, culture, religion, biography, type of education, the incitement, the deluded worldview and press - all those things which play an active role in our decision making - because they will be seen as "racist".

And again, who are those who suffer from it? Not the European bourgeoisies - the spoilt ethnocentric appeasers, who have zero experience in things they like to gossip about while the tea cools down. the less fortunate will.

I agree.

But then again it is quite logical when refering to an ideology that accepts different interpretations to only focus on the one that suits one's opinion, which seems to be the trend in the 'western' world.

A good pint buried under the usual political point scoring.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/opinion/opinion-islamism-the-evil-that-dwells-in-our-nation/story-fnihsr9v-1227163727045?nk=39038dcb2352e53cf9e9c8cd3463c22b

Interesting article, although I disagree that "Islamism" separated from the original Islam and do it's own thing. It is merely Islam with no shutters, no veils and no masks, it shows what deep down it is. I think that Western nations should have created some kind of a restrictions when they let Muslims in, especially by the numbers permitted. I still like what Japan did, Muslims have to sit down and shut the fuck up and can't screw around there, for if they do, they get the boot.

Written by Bad English on 24.12.2014 at 18:13

http://www.blabbermouth.net/news/morbid-angels-david-vincent-islam-is-probably-worse-than-christianity-ever-was/

I don't get the point, I'm tired of this level of discourse and I think I know where it probably stems from. You can read some of the comments, people expecting him to "to take a stance" or him using the words "personally", "their right" and more cliches. Of course it's "personal" (i.e. subjective i.e. lacks public evidence) it didn't even present a single piece of data!

He maybe thinks that if it's OK to get away with "Christianity sucks, Christianity is false and terrible because it was violent" he can do the same with Islam. So first of all, it's a terrible argument both factually and structurally.
Most wars are factually caused by politics not religion and it does not mean you should through politics out of the window - at best probably certain politics out of the window (or some types of Christianity), and that's assuming violence is 'inherently' wrong (yeah, you need an ontology for that). Generally, someone isn't false because of what it causes. Christianity could have been true and violent at the same time without further argument.

What Muslim societies need is reform - some reforms that Judaism and Christianity went through - and we need a society in which seculars are willing to take a stance for positive secularism. Religious people try and persuade people, it is an integral part of democracy, so should secularists instead of sliding into political irrelevance in virtue of cliches like "it's their right to believe".

Written by deadone on 24.12.2014 at 03:56

Written by Rasputin on 22.12.2014 at 17:55

I think that Western nations should have created some kind of a restrictions when they let Muslims in, especially by the numbers permitted.

Just don't let them in in the first place. Part of the problem solved.

Note 3 attacks in France by Islamists.

People will say 1 was mentally il but that's irrelevant His attack was very much premotivated. I work in mental health and people aren't insane all the time. On several occasions we have pressed charges against clients who acted violently and then claimed their mental illness made them do the violent act. Assessments by psychiatrists showed no symptoms of mental illness at time of attacks.

If it would be only so simple. As we can see more and more people are apologetic of their behavior, which is sad. You and I, while we disagree on other issues stemming from the history of our two countries, can agree on this, and that is that Islam is evil, pure evil. It has no redeeming qualities, it brings nothing constructive to the table, it is not open minded, it is not tolerant, it is not free and sure as hell is not peaceful. France is in deep shit, they are done, there is no way to get rid of the Muslim infestation until the send in the military and clean it up street by street, but they don't dare do that, because the liberals would have a heart attack. These are peaceful Muslims who want death to the state and Sharia Law, these are the peaceful Muslims who are clashing with the police because they didn't get it their way and made a dump out of the country they live in, the same Muslims who segregate themselves in their little pockets not allowing anyone who is not a Muslim do live there, either by choice or just by the way they treat people. Yup, those are your peaceful Muslims. It seems to me, that the line between Moderate and Radical Muslim is a Kuran verse away.

Written by Rasputin on 29.12.2014 at 18:38

If it would be only so simple. As we can see more and more people are apologetic of their behavior, which is sad. You and I, while we disagree on other issues stemming from the history of our two countries, can agree on this, and that is that Islam is evil, pure evil. It has no redeeming qualities, it brings nothing constructive to the table, it is not open minded, it is not tolerant, it is not free and sure as hell is not peaceful. France is in deep shit, they are done, there is no way to get rid of the Muslim infestation until the send in the military and clean it up street by street, but they don't dare do that, because the liberals would have a heart attack. These are peaceful Muslims who want death to the state and Sharia Law, these are the peaceful Muslims who are clashing with the police because they didn't get it their way and made a dump out of the country they live in, the same Muslims who segregate themselves in their little pockets not allowing anyone who is not a Muslim do live there, either by choice or just by the way they treat people. Yup, those are your peaceful Muslims. It seems to me, that the line between Moderate and Radical Muslim is a Kuran verse away.

I've been reading through some of the discussions you've had recently because I'm bored, and I was wondering: how do you treat the Islamic people you meet in everyday life? Surely you come in contact with at least some from time to time, and I'm really just curious how you interact with them.

Written by Alex F on 31.12.2014 at 20:02

Written by Rasputin on 29.12.2014 at 18:38

If it would be only so simple. As we can see more and more people are apologetic of their behavior, which is sad. You and I, while we disagree on other issues stemming from the history of our two countries, can agree on this, and that is that Islam is evil, pure evil. It has no redeeming qualities, it brings nothing constructive to the table, it is not open minded, it is not tolerant, it is not free and sure as hell is not peaceful. France is in deep shit, they are done, there is no way to get rid of the Muslim infestation until the send in the military and clean it up street by street, but they don't dare do that, because the liberals would have a heart attack. These are peaceful Muslims who want death to the state and Sharia Law, these are the peaceful Muslims who are clashing with the police because they didn't get it their way and made a dump out of the country they live in, the same Muslims who segregate themselves in their little pockets not allowing anyone who is not a Muslim do live there, either by choice or just by the way they treat people. Yup, those are your peaceful Muslims. It seems to me, that the line between Moderate and Radical Muslim is a Kuran verse away.

I've been reading through some of the discussions you've had recently because I'm bored, and I was wondering: how do you treat the Islamic people you meet in everyday life? Surely you come in contact with at least some from time to time, and I'm really just curious how you interact with them.

Luckily where I am at, I don't have to deal with them, they have not infested this area yet. If they don't bother me, I don't bother them. On campus if they open their mouth in class, I verbally obliterate them. If I see them outside of school and work, I keep an eye on them, I don't engage them, because unfortunately I can't provide them the same hospitality they provide to others in their gutter countries. I do wear some custom made shirts, that say in Arabic "Muhammad was a Pig" or "Infidel." Too bad we don't have some of these so called Moderate Muslims try their Sharia Law Enforcement bullshit, since they would be welcomed by a wide assortment of tasty calibers.

Written by Rasputin on 01.01.2015 at 05:44

Written by Alex F on 31.12.2014 at 20:02

Written by Rasputin on 29.12.2014 at 18:38

[Message]

I've been reading through some of the discussions you've had recently because I'm bored, and I was wondering: how do you treat the Islamic people you meet in everyday life? Surely you come in contact with at least some from time to time, and I'm really just curious how you interact with them.

I do wear some custom made shirts, that say in Arabic "Muhammad was a Pig" or "Infidel."

Jeez, I would've been in Tihar jail had I wore that un-islamic glorify t-shirt.

Written by Alex F on 31.12.2014 at 20:02

Written by Rasputin on 29.12.2014 at 18:38

I've been reading through some of the discussions you've had recently because I'm bored, and I was wondering: how do you treat the Islamic people you meet in everyday life? Surely you come in contact with at least some from time to time, and I'm really just curious how you interact with them.

He runs away screaming in case they suddenly explode.

Written by M C Vice on 02.01.2015 at 03:30

Written by Alex F on 31.12.2014 at 20:02

Written by Rasputin on 29.12.2014 at 18:38

I've been reading through some of the discussions you've had recently because I'm bored, and I was wondering: how do you treat the Islamic people you meet in everyday life? Surely you come in contact with at least some from time to time, and I'm really just curious how you interact with them.

He runs away screaming in case they suddenly explode.

Most probably

I live amongst Muslims and never ever had a single problem with them. So, yes, there are moderate non-violent Muslims.

I live among Muslims too, nice people generally who don't seem to blow up.

there are actually maori/muslims...i wonder if they will team up and get rid of those pesky land steeling christian pushing europeans

Yup, nice people, until they constitute a majority, then you really find out how nice they are.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 02.01.2015 at 04:00


So, yes, there are moderate non-violent Muslims.

The gunman from the siege in Sydney last month had to be buried in Melbourne (in secret, too, I think) 'cause the Sydney muslims didn't want him.

Written by M C Vice on 02.01.2015 at 03:30

He runs away screaming in case they suddenly explode.

Written by M C Vice on 02.01.2015 at 07:52

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 02.01.2015 at 04:00


So, yes, there are moderate non-violent Muslims.

The gunman from the siege in Sydney last month had to be buried in Melbourne (in secret, too, I think) 'cause the Sydney muslims didn't want him.

Of course they don't, he is "bad press" until they get the numbers they need, then it won't matter.

Awful news from Paris.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Written by Mercyful_Kate on 07.01.2015 at 16:06

Awful news from Paris.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Yeah.
Charlie Hebdo is (was?) a satirical, weekly newspaper. They're really critical and acidic about all organized religions and politics, and alreday encountered troubles when they published the famous Mahomet caricatures in 2009 (I think).
Btw, the first incarnation of the paper, in 1970, got banned from publishing because they mocked the death of Charles de Gaulle. They never hesitated to criticize and bash morons everywhere and are still loved for that (even if they're not as good as they used to be), at least by eft-wing and anarchists (obviously, right-wing conservative people don't like them )
So, RIP Cabu, Charb, Tignous, Wolinski, and all of you.

Written by Darkside Momo on 07.01.2015 at 16:23

They never hesitated to criticize and bash morons everywhere and are still loved for that (even if they're not as good as they used to be), at least by eft-wing and anarchists (obviously, right-wing conservative people don't like them )

actually they only criticize and bash right-wing conservative morons and never left-wing morons.

Written by Darkside Momo on 07.01.2015 at 16:23

Written by Mercyful_Kate on 07.01.2015 at 16:06

Awful news from Paris.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30710883?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Yeah.
Charlie Hebdo is (was?) a satirical, weekly newspaper. They're really critical and acidic about all organized religions and politics, and alreday encountered troubles when they published the famous Mahomet caricatures in 2009 (I think).
Btw, the first incarnation of the paper, in 1970, got banned from publishing because they mocked the death of Charles de Gaulle. They never hesitated to criticize and bash morons everywhere and are still loved for that (even if they're not as good as they used to be), at least by eft-wing and anarchists (obviously, right-wing conservative people don't like them )
So, RIP Cabu, Charb, Tignous, Wolinski, and all of you.

On Reddit, a lot of people said that some of their best writers died recently from natural causes. I'm very sorry to hear about this tragedy for you, your country and the state of your free press. Fortunately, I don't think the French people will ever agree to yield their wit and freedom of press, expression, art, etc to religious extremism.

Written by Darkside Momo on 07.01.2015 at 16:23


Charlie Hebdo is (was?) a satirical, weekly newspaper. They're really critical and acidic about all organized religions and politics, and alreday encountered troubles when they published the famous Mahomet caricatures in 2009 (I think).

They were attacked in late 2011, and since under threat.

Real shame, some of their covers had some hilarious acid humour

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 07.01.2015 at 16:26

Written by Darkside Momo on 07.01.2015 at 16:23

They never hesitated to criticize and bash morons everywhere and are still loved for that (even if they're not as good as they used to be), at least by eft-wing and anarchists (obviously, right-wing conservative people don't like them )

actually they only criticize and bash right-wing conservative morons and never left-wing morons.

as they made fun of Mélenchon, Laguiller (back in the day) and others, I tend to disagree. That said, they obviously had a bias

Anyway, sad day. Once again it proves - if there ever was a need - that religious extremists of any kind are a bane to all mankind.

Written by Mercyful_Kate on 07.01.2015 at 16:27
Fortunately, I don't think the French people will ever agree to yield their wit and freedom of press, expression, art, etc to religious extremism.

There will be an interesting book on that subject though: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/author-of-book-envisioning-2022-france-under-muslim-rule-says-novel-is-not-islamophobic-9958954.html

Written by Troy Killjoy on 07.01.2015 at 17:58

Written by Mercyful_Kate on 07.01.2015 at 16:27
Fortunately, I don't think the French people will ever agree to yield their wit and freedom of press, expression, art, etc to religious extremism.

There will be an interesting book on that subject though: http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/news/author-of-book-envisioning-2022-france-under-muslim-rule-says-novel-is-not-islamophobic-9958954.html

Oy vey. Let's hope that people outside of North America take that type of literature with a grain of salt.

Written by Bad English on 07.01.2015 at 16:56

After Paris event it will be interesting to read Rasputin and also deadone posts

We all see whats happening in Germany, Köln , Dresden , Dusseldorf , non rasistic demonstrations organized by anti WP, using E German slogan what was made against communism and soviet occupation. Mosc was burned in Swe 2-3 weeks ago.
Such extremism can fourse , more less neutral ppl go more to WP side and so on ... and fuck sake I don't wanna LePen or how I suppose to spell her last name rule in the France, such ppl are same as those ppl what they hate

I totally agree with you. I think a large part of this extremism can be attributed to the fact that people who were raised in non-western cultures are "tolerated" and "allowed to exist" within Western societies, but they are often ostracized by their countrymen for their ethnicity (and not necessarily their religion). Groups like ISIS target these young men and women who feel resentment for being alienated Westerners and turn them into killers. In a progressive society, it needs to be understood that violence towards these people and attempts at expulsion fuels their resentment and pushes otherwise moderate people directly into the arms of extreme religious groups where they think they'll find acceptance and respect.

I am under the impression France is rather bad about freedom of religion. You got shit like not being permitted to wear a crucifix to school, which is bound to appear unbelievable and provocative to people from, well, almost any other society. So it is with good reason French muslims feel their religion threatened, not just their ethnicity. There seems to be a very strong anti-religion atmosphere in France with very few ways for religion to defend and assert itself, which is bound to lead to tensions. (Mind you, I am just going off impressions, I don't speak French so my sources are limited.)

This is related to the above comments, not so much the attack itself. I find it a little dubious to speculate the motives and background there, because we don't know anything and terrorist groups tend to claim religion as their chief motive in order to promote conflicts, rally support and create fear, while the truth is usually quite different.

Sigh. Wow, so much stupidity on this page, so much defense for the poor innocent Muslims. I'm just waiting, when they lit up something close to you, I will see if you will be so apologetic to this behavior.

Muslims in France have more freedom than even the Christians. And they reason why they are not well liked is because they are not assimilating with the culture of the country they live in, they instead push their own agenda and want Sharia Law.

The most important thing to note, is the fact that the terrorist attack happened over a caricature, again, and it was not done by your "radical" Muslims, it was just done by the Muslims. Muslims create their own ghettos and self segregate so they can have a strength in numbers.

And @Iron Angel, "they feel their religion threatened?" Really? That is your argument for this? I find it very interesting that people can talk shit about Xtianity all they want, but when you say anything about Islam, regardless of how factual it is, or how trivial it is, they go up in arms, and threaten violence. And if I remember correctly, the reason why people can't wear crucifixes (or so I read in couple of articles) is that Muslims complained. the same issue we have here in the USA, where Nativity scenes for Xmas have to be removed since Muslims want their own stuff in the schools. While I agree that religion and politics and education should be separate, I find Xmas a part of the American culture, that has very little with religion itself anymore, it is just a holiday, like Thanksgiving or even Halloween so kids can have fun, and would we like it or not, it is part of American heritage regardless of faith. Now, you want to try to have a Xtian holiday in Islam dominated land, you will be in for a rude awakening.

Like I keep repeating, and no one but Dead One seems to agree with me on here, we are at war with Islam, and the sooner we realize that, the better. Muslims never bring peace, prosperity or tolerance anywhere. You welcome them with open arms, and they will play the game until they get strong, then you have this, you have take overs of the whole districts, violence and terrorism.

Every country must be threatening Muslims, since they seem to raise hell in Germany, Austria, Sweden, Denmark and Spain. It's very interesting that only that one religion is oppressed and everyone else can believe and practice what they want. Why is that I wonder? Is it because people finally started realizing how bad Islam is, or is it that the Muslims are full of shit, and they want rights and privileges that others can't get?

I said once, and I will say it again. Send the fuckers back where they came from, or make them go into Apostasy, because if we don't, we will have more bombings, more death and destruction.