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Original post

Posted by Black Winter, 11.03.2008 - 21:55
Since the old thread had exceeded its limits,here is a new thread to continue some of the previous discutions,please post a logic and a meaningful contributions and try to avoid all kinds of extremism and disrespectful remarks.
I myself will try to contribute meaningfully to clarify some points .
30.08.2015 - 11:18
Candlemass
Defaeco
Written by Rasputin on 30.08.2015 at 01:18

Saddam invades Kuwait, USA beats him and lets him continue to rule, no Russians there. Again Saddam was trained by the USA not the Russians.
I did not say that USA was the historic supporter, I said that they have become a main one over the years, like right now.


No. The Soviet Union were the main suppliers in great magnitude of weapons and training. Today the Iraqis are buying Russian weapons.

Written by Rasputin on 30.08.2015 at 01:18

Right, so by that logic you again verify what I was saying. The ISIS uses US weapons, equipment and vehicles, so wherever you find US equipment you find USA.


No, it's an empirical fact about Russians. In North Korea Russians use to man AA and radar stations. Same thing in Middle East, may it be Egypt or Syria.
ISIS are using mainly Russian weapons.

Written by Rasputin on 30.08.2015 at 01:18

It is America's fault, Al Qaida, ISIS, overthrowing of Libyan President, the 'Arab Spring' in Egypt, the crisis in Ukraine, the Iran situation, the Iraq disaster, the Afghanistan disaster.
...
1959 Tibetan uprising
1961 Cuba, Bay of Pigs Invasion
1964 Brazilian coup d'état
...


No, this does not imply the US is behind every coup d'état in history nor are the Russians behind every puppet state and in particular does that show that the US supports ISIS (aren't they bombing them?). Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant isn't a rebel Syrian rebel group, they originated in Iraq in an atmosphere of sectarian tensions.
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30.08.2015 - 18:05
Candlemass
Defaeco
Written by angel. on 29.08.2015 at 22:36

Such a huge hypocrisy I see here, I need nobody to tell me what to do, if I like to write here I would write, doesn't matter if you understand why I come back here and of course you hypocrite would not understand it anyway. I am trying to open the eyes of people who are actually they themselves love to keep their eyes shut.

I never forget your outrage when Charlie Hebdo attack happened, and now where is the same anger when innoccent people are drowned in the sea in middle of nowhere?? where is your anger when the cops fired tear gas on those miserable people stuck in middle of no where? where is you anger when those miserable people died in that truck in Austria? But you know I am talking to pieces of stone, deaf ears, to hypocrites who are actually racist who deep down inside believes some people's life worth shit and some people no. I am getting suspicious about metalstorm too as if the staffers have a special tendency.


(A) Even if I was a hypocrite, the biggest one you can see, that doesn't make what I said wrong - which is suppose to be the subject of the thread.

(B) How are they equivalent that they makes me a hypocrite? Charlie Hebdo were attacked twice because of "controversial" Muhammad cartoons. Not their Jesus cartoons, not their cartoons that mocked Jews nor their cartoons that mocked ultra-nationalist French - the assailants were second generation immigrants, students of Islamist preacher Farid Benyettou.

People want immigrants to integrate; no ghettos or places you grow-up in you cannot recognize anymore, no theocracy like gender segregation and radical preachers and respect for local values like freedom of speech. Some of the reasons more people are voting right-wing across Europe which in particular means more border control.

If anyone is a hypocrite here, it is people who make the claim they have nothing less than a bleeding heart-of-gold but make a lots of noise and express aggression only over the refugees they fancy. Refugees are not traveling weeks on to Europe for nothing, it's the best treatment and welfare they can find especially compared what they have to endure in neighbouring countries.

(C) No, calling someone you disagree with to be banned or trying to intimidate people to get him banned with empty accusations does not prove your point.
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30.08.2015 - 18:55
Ilham
Giant robot
Written by Candlemass on 30.08.2015 at 18:05

...

That hysterical tirade was directed at me. I made the mistake of posting my outrage about Charlie after watching the video of the policeman getting murdered, but failed to post about every poor soul that dies while crossing the Mediterranean sea. I'm such a monster and a hypocrite.
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30.08.2015 - 20:04
Ilham
Giant robot
Written by Bad English on 30.08.2015 at 19:42

Its different, crossing people tale risk it own, they can stay at home , well I dunno about Africa but in Europe we have rules and regulations, same shit happened in Russia (what Rasp loves so much) boat had 200 ppl , can take 120 and exploration date was old and ppl died.
I heard some discussion , if there is war and ppl is refuge he should have easier chance to enter in aiplain, but cabin crew don't let them, because following aircompany rules

Its their own risk in some point and its a fact , and we can not cover whole sea everywhere whit boats and plains , not possible,

I didn't express any point of view on any of the matters. I don't understand why (and what) you're trying to tell me.
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30.08.2015 - 20:16
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Written by Ilham on 30.08.2015 at 20:04

I don't understand why (and what) you're trying to tell me.


No one understands what is trying to see. And not only in this thread.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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31.08.2015 - 02:07
Maco
Pvt Funderground
I love this place.
----
Crackhead Megadeth reigns supreme.
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31.08.2015 - 18:55
Candlemass
Defaeco
Written by deadone on 31.08.2015 at 13:20

... (or Bad English either).


And all this does relate to Islam. The AK-47 is the weapon of choice for spreading fundamentalist Islam. How they flow and other small arms flow to these groups is quite interesting and not necessarily straightforward.


Why are you and Bad English always bashing each other?

It's trivial seeing Islamsits using democratic freedoms in over to try and overturn it. What's amazing is that some people actually encourage them but denounce and gag the far-right who want to do just the same.

A quote from the Iraqi Atheist Faisal Saeed Al Mutar:
"If you call White Republicans Bigots for not accepting Gay Marriage, then you indirectly called the Majority of Brown Muslims Bigots, if that's not what you meant, then you are by all definitions a racist because you apply different standards to different people because of their race."

By the way, speaking of AK-47s and Islamists, did you know anti-tank weapons are now available in France via its black market? French intelligence fears Islamist 'missile strike on airliner' or 9/11-style attack
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31.08.2015 - 19:45
Cynic Metalhead
Paisa Vich Nasha
Written by deadone on 31.08.2015 at 12:45

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 30.08.2015 at 11:10

I just came across bundle of posts about migration and it's ramifications on future.

I just really don't understand how can you stop migrating people from other countries? This is pretty inevitable like travelling to other countries for fun journey. Also, if migrating people(especially Muslim) creating furore in european countries then i guess it's pretty bland to target migration.

If in future, any country decide to stop foregin people to come to their countries(for whatever the hell reasons) then in that case - outsiders(born and brought up there but have different race) will call them on relative passport.

So, this is kind a part of wagonwheel where you can't stop migrating people from different countries.


Sure you can stop migration. Government's control borders and immigration policy.


Let me rephrase it.

"Sure you can tighten rules of migration. Government's control borders and immigration policy. "

No sure in hell can't stop migration in any other country.
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01.09.2015 - 05:33
Rasputin

@deadone
I don't see anyone as innocent, I just levy blame where it should rest. There is far more blood on the hands of Croatia than of Serbia, since WWI, WWII to culminate with the last disaster in the 1990's, and now Nazi thing is picking up speed again in Croatia, as was witnessed in August during the parade to commemorate a crime. It is a fact that Serbia has been demonized by the Western media for years, to suit their interests. just as it is now very good for Serbia to be praised, so Serbia gets stuck with refugees that are a NATO/USA problem to begin with, since they constantly bomb and spread "democracy and freedom." I call out USA more, because it should not be doing what it is doing, especially as a self proclaimed defender of peace, freedom and democracy, instead of being a world bully or "World Police." You either practice what you preach, or don't preach it. As far as Russia goes, I really don't care, I don't live there and I don't live in fear of them doing anything incredibly stupid, as USA seems to be doing year after year. I for one I am not like Bad English to cower at the first mention of anything Russian. Wait a second, are you actually stating that the Serbs have been as disruptive as the USA??? LMAO, right, like we go all over the world bomb them to the ground with the premise of peace, liberty and pursuit of happiness. My god, that is an asinine statement. Serbia for years did not want to be anyone's bitch, unlike Croatia who always went with the path of least resistance, so ethnic cleansing during WWI on the side of AH, then on the side of Hitler and more ethnic cleansing and concentration camps in the second world war, and then culminate with an expulsion campaign of undesirables (Serbs) from Krajina, and of course aided by NATO and USA advisors, the same ones who spent over 40 million to take down Milosevic, and instigate a conflict and a Civil War in the first place. The Serbs were not innocent either, but when we tally the atrocities committed and numbers of people lost, we come to find out that the Serbians lost the most in the period I described, so the writing is on the wall, and I don't give a damn if you agree with me or not. You on one side claim you don't care about Croatia and that "tribal" mentality, yet you seldom acknowledge the fuck ups and crimes of your own people, which according to the new regime in Croatia, were completely justified.

And let's clarify, I never stated that the Russians did not sell weapons to the powers in the MIddle East, they did, and they still do, however, Saddam was a CIA asset, that is a fact. USA toppled the regime in Iran and placed the Shah who was favorable in oil, that is a fact, USA illegally invaded Iraq, Afghanistan, helped topple the regime in Libya and refer to my list, because those are all FACTS.

Russians on the other hand support Assad because they have a base there, although their assistance is mediocre at best. And no, Russians have dirty hands as well, however, their hands are not to the elbows in blood like NATO/USA are.

That story that ISIS has US weapons because they raided the supplies after they overrun Iraq is bunch of bullshit. They probably did grab some weapons, but not that many. Like I said before, USA uses and abuses it's assets, so on one side they might blow some of the ISIS members up and the ISIS members understand that and don't give a shit because they have 10 more to fill the gap, and USA uses ISIS to destabilize a country they have vested interests in, like Syria for instance. It's a dual game. And again, ISIS did not just appear, the large portion of that force was trained by the USA and sent out to Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria, only an idiot can think that all of these well trained, well organized and tactically sound individuals just happen to be bunch of pissed off goat herders who developed such awesome might and skill over short period of time. And lets not forget, who trained Al Qaeda and who supported Bin Laden before he became FBI's most wanted.


@Rusophobic amoeba
LMAO, dog soldier? Really. What a fucktard. I at least know how to use a rifle while you live in pussy whipped Sweden, that will go up in flames. Start learning Arabic, you are going to need it soon
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01.09.2015 - 05:44
Rasputin

And even from the mouth of a US Soldier. I rest my case. They even see the hypocrisy.

"You Grow Up Wanting to be Luke Skywalker, Then Realize You've Become a Stormtrooper for the Empire"
"You Grow Up Wanting to be Luke Skywalker, Then Realize You've Become a Stormtrooper for the Empire"

Read this shocking account of how U.S. Iraq War veterans had their 9/11 patriotism crushed & replaced with something far more alarming?

Someone asked:

How do you Americans as a people walk around head held high, knowing that every few months your country is committing a 9/11 size atrocity to other people. Imagine if the 9/11 terror attacks were happening in america every few months. Again and again, innocent people dying all around you. Your brothers and sisters. For no reason.

Daniel Crimmins from U.S. Army 3rd Infantry Division answered:
"Many of us are unable. Many of us watched 9/11, and accepted the government and media's definition of the attack as a act of war rather than a criminal action. A smaller portion, drifting along passively thought a major war was coming, that people we knew were going to fight and die. Some of us maybe worried about our younger brother being drafted, despite being in college. Now, it seems stupid, but in the 72 hours after 9/11, some Americans, maybe suffering from depression, certainly with a mind shaped by comic books and action movies, ate up the "us vs. them" good vs. evil rhetoric spouted by the cowboy in chief. After all, he was the president, and no matter how bright you might think yourself, you can still be swayed by passion and emotion, led to terrible decisions.

Some of us, therefore, left our dorm rooms, and walked down Main Street to the recruiter's office. Some of us were genuinely surprised the office wasn't full to bursting of young men eager to avenge their fallen countrymen. Some of us were genuinely surprised when we had to push the recruiter to stop trying to sell desk jobs and just let us join the damn Infantry.

Some of us got enlisted, then, and went down to Georgia, head high to mask the anxiety and fear they might have helped. Perhaps some number of Americans in this situation discovered that maybe it hadn't been the best idea, but would be goddamned if they were going to admit it, and let everyone back home smuggly remark on how right they were.

So they persevere. They learn to work as a unit, to look past personality issues, to see each other as Soldiers rather than as a race, or economic status, or any of the other things people hate about each other.

They learn to kill.

Then some of these people, perhaps while sitting hungover in the platoon area in the Republic of Korea hear that we have invaded Iraq. They have "Big Scary Bombs", and Saddam Hussein, the secular Arab dictator had somehow colluded with the devoutly religious OBL to attack the US. They hated our freedom, you see.

Then some of these young American men might transfer back to Georgia and be assigned to the 3rd Infantry Division, and end up in Iraq in January of 2005. And maybe these kids, still drunk on Fox News and fantasies of glory and renown being enough to win their ex-girlfriends back, are excited to go to Iraq. Sure, we hadn't found any WMDs yet, and we had Hussein in custody, but they were still somehow a threat and had to be dragged kicking and screaming into Jeffersonian democracy. Inside every dirka is a good American, yearning to be free.

So you fight. You kill. Watch friends die. Its usually quick, almost never quiet, but for the rest of your life, when you remember sitting at the bar with them, they're blown open. You picture the nights you spent downtown at Scruffy Murphy's, but instead of the stupid hookah shell necklace, your boy's jaw is blown off, and his left eye is ruined, and he's screaming.

You fight, you kill, you watch friends die, and you notice a distinct lack of change. You kick in doors and tell terrified women to sit on the floor while you and your friends ransack their home, tearing the place apart, because they might be hiding weapons. There is no reason to believe this house in particular is enemy, same for the next one, and the one after that, or the seven before; they just happened to be there, and maybe they had weapons. Probably not, they almost never did. There were a few times when we had deliberate raids based on solid intel and we'd turn up some stuff, but generally we were just tossing houses because we could.

Then maybe your FISTer forgets to carry the remainder, and drops a mess of mortars on the village your supposed to protect. Maybe the big Iraqi running at you screaming was just mentally ill. Of course, you won't know this until after you've but seven rounds through his ribcage, and his wailing, ancient mother is cradling his body, spitting at you.

Maybe when you get back to the FOB, the Platoon Sergeant tells you you did the right thing; next time, it might be a suicide bomber. They tell you it was an honest mistake, it wasn't your fault. They tell you to go get some chow, take a shower if the water works, and sleep it off. You did good work that day, apparently.

During chow, the TV is on AFN, and they are rebroadcasting some Fox News show, and you're hearing about drone strikes, and all the great things we're doing, and you can't help but see that poor dumb assholes face, looking past his mother as he bleeds to death. He's in pain, obviously, but he has the most perfectly confused look on his face. He doesn't comprehend what's happening. Little more hot sauce on your eggs doesn't really help.

Then you realize you haven't seen anything to support the idea that these poor fuckers are a threat to your home. You look around and you see all he contractors making six figure salaries to fix your shit, train Iraqis, maintain the ridiculous SUVs the KBR dicks ride around in. You consider the fact that every 25mm shell costs about forty bucks, and your company has been handing those fuckers out like shrapnel flavored parade candies. You think about all the fuel you're going through, all the ammo and missiles and grenades. You think about every time you lose a vehicle, the Army buys a new one. Maybe you start to see a lot of people making a lot of money on huge amounts of human suffering.

Then you go on leave, and realize that Ayn Rand has no idea what the fuck she's talking about. You realize that Fox News and Limbaugh and John McCain don't respect you or your buddies. They don't give a fuck if you get a parade or a box when you get home, you're nothing to them but a prop.

Then you get out, and you hate the news. You hate the apathy, and you hate the murder being carried out in your name. You grew up wanting so bad to be Luke Skywalker, but you realize that you were basically a Stormtrooper, a faceless, nameless rifleman, carrying a spear for empire, and you start to accept the startlingly obvious truth that these are people like you.

Maybe your heart breaks a little every time some asshole brags about a "successful" drone strike.

Your statement is correct enough; if all of America was one dude, that dude would not give a shit about the little brown people we're burning and crushing and choking to death. We aren't all like that, but it makes me incredibly, profoundly sad to see what my country actually is.

Some of us care, and I think there are more every day." - Daniel Crimmins
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01.09.2015 - 06:31
Candlemass
Defaeco
Written by Rasputin on 01.09.2015 at 05:33

And lets not forget, who trained Al Qaeda and who supported Bin Laden before he became FBI's most wanted.


Negative. Nope. No. Didn't happen.

"Common among conspiracy theorists is the notion that bin Laden was a CIA creation".
Here's what proof looks to you that Bin Laden was actually a Mossad agent:


Written by Rasputin on 01.09.2015 at 05:33

@Rusophobic amoeba
LMAO, dog soldier? Really. What a fucktard. I at least know how to use a rifle while you live in pussy whipped Sweden, that will go up in flames. Start learning Arabic, you are going to need it soon


Swedes actually own quite a large amount of guns per capita. Ranked 9th in the world, nothing like the US, but not quite a respectable place.

DIsclaimer: I'm baked from nice Indica and this is in all probability more correct than your post.
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01.09.2015 - 07:07
Rasputin

LMAO, oh this was good. Thank you for this, I needed some entertainment

USA trained Afghani forces to fight the Soviets, that is a fact, and one of those men later to be featured in the paper was Osama Bin Laden.


Swedes are a joke. Their police is laughable, their prisons rented out for other purposes, Criminals run amok and radical Islam is growing plus they are not reproducing enough. They are fucked either way, with weapons or without.

But of course you are, that would explain obsessive compulsive behavior, separation from reality and the fascinating posts. I think you need something harrder, weed is not cutting it anymore. Its going to be awesome to see your brain 10 years from now. Stoners are fun to watch
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01.09.2015 - 13:52
Candlemass
Defaeco
How mental is this going to get? Contrary to all evidence you keep desperately claiming widely accepted as a conspiracy theory? If you're featured on a UK magazine, your funded by the CIA? Enlarge the image, start reading what you post?
The article is a counter-example to another conspiracy theory that focus on demonizing the poor; everything has to do with "socioeconomic". Bin Laden wasn't poor, he was a rich Saudi Business man and a radical Islamist. Something already cited in the research, no, radicalism and suicide bombing has nothing to do with economics.
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02.09.2015 - 01:17
Rasputin

Sure
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03.09.2015 - 10:18
angel.
Evil Butterfly
----
The Fangirl.
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03.09.2015 - 12:16
Candlemass
Defaeco
Here we go...the gruesome if not cynical process of contextualizing a picture of a dead child. This is a classic argumentum ad passiones.

In Sweden for instance, journalists/Public figures contextualized it blaming the Swedish Democrats for the death of refugees. How is that the case? By blaming them for opposing more absorption into Sweden. First, they are not members of the government they don't have any practical immediate policies and there's a while for elections. Second, that's simply a non-sequitur.
Anyone could argue just the opposite, the incentives and the myths they create ("many Syrians have unrealistic expectations about life in the Nordics, assuming they will get access to large homes and cars.") are what that make people go through this dangerous journey in the first place.

Why don't you post images of German homosexuals after being assaulted by Muslim immigrants who are so intolerant of them and so many other people? In Germany*:

"Turks in Germany.... 46% wish that one day more Muslims live in Germany than Christians...two thirds of the Muslims interviewed say that religious rules are more important to them than the laws of the country in which they live, almost 60 percent of the Muslim respondents reject homosexuals as friends; 45 percent think that Jews cannot be trusted."

I think by any standard they fit best in rich Gulf countries who suit them culturally and are much closer to them geographically.

Written by Bad English on 01.09.2015 at 18:25

Not helping ppl from war areas arte like not helping judish people running from SS in WWII days


Not unless you're a homosexual, apostate or secularist/democratic opposition member, no it's not. That is an image of a Kurdish child escaping Islamic militants. Those are people that refugee status should apply to, instead they get prosecuted and receive violence in countries they run for refuge in.
As a side comment, please leave Jewish history. Let it be. Everyone by now has enough of Europeans misunderstanding, abusing and twisting it. For all I care by now Europeans may know nothing about it and that would better than the current state of it.

*Disclaimer: Yeah, I source checked. Not gonna check methodology.
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04.09.2015 - 02:06
Candlemass
Defaeco
"Humanity will kill the humanists! Where were you when Assad was and still mass killing your fellow humans, Where were you when the Islamic State was and still burning people alive, Where were you to not do something to stop all this tragedy.
Today you wanna give us a lesson in humanity, in solidarity, in caring, when in fact because of your silence, because of your western weapons, because of your politicians, We come to be here. Yes Humanity will kill the humanists, will kill the hypocrites. Be ready now to deal with the thousands if not millions of refugees, try to integrate them after you have failed in integrating the ones who came as workers not refugees. you are not dealing with numbers, but humans. so Good luck." - Kacem El Ghazzali
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04.09.2015 - 03:06
no one
Account deleted
Written by deadone on 04.09.2015 at 02:29


Westerners only care when the news media tells them to care. Hence no one cares about Democratic Republic of Congo or Myanmar or whatever.

Even Westerners have not evolved much past being driven by outrage from higher authorities. Once it was "kill the infidels in the Holy Land" or "Stop the evil Germans/French/Russians" to now being "Kill evil terrorists" or "save poor migrants from Syria (but not anywhere else)" or "Save the whales (but not any other creature that has not been advertised as endangered)."

beg to differ on the last one, media also does a good job at portraying what us westerners are all worried about.
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04.09.2015 - 10:50
Rasputin

@deadone

US squandered their currency long time ago, before Bush and Obama even. Bush cemented the Corporate interests even further when he aided his buddy DIck Chaney to make a fuckton of money through Haliburton contracts.

And where did the concept of Greater Serbia end? The moment Serbia agreed to create a Kingdom with Slovenia and Croatia, which later will become Yugoslavia. If it wasn't for Serbia sacrificing it's territory there would be no Croatia, since Croatia would remain a province in the power of Austro-Hungary, minus Istra, Dalmacija and Slavonia, and as far as Slovenes were concerned they would be torn between Italy and Austro-Hungary. I distinctly remember, that even one Croatian historian recently made the claim that if it wasn't for Serbia, there would be no Croatia.

Serbia may be small, but it went to war enough times and had enemies build monuments in the honor of the fallen soldiers and their sacrifice, something that Croatia never achieved, since Croatia was always sucking someone else's dick, first Austro-Hungarian, then German, and now NATO/EU cocksuckers. The song dedicated to the "son of thousand summer dream" still rings true today. And I don't recall Serbia starting shit in the 90's, I remember it trying to preserve Yugoslavia to the last moment, but due to illegal separation and acts of terror aided by the NATO/USA was not able to. Then in 1999 this "borderline shithole" managed to survive 78 days of bombing by a superior force to everyone's amazement. Serbia has nothing to be ashamed off, quite the contrary

As far as the Russian thing goes, I agree for the most part, but I would not underestimate them just yet.

It was a conspiracy theory that the USA monitored, recorded and spied on their Citizens, and then yet time and time again it keeps getting proved otherwise. So, not all Conspiracy Theories are just theories, many of them are a fact, or will become a fact in near future.
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04.09.2015 - 10:52
Rasputin

Written by Bad English on 03.09.2015 at 13:03

Written by Candlemass on 03.09.2015 at 12:16


Not unless you're a homosexual, apostate or secularist/democratic opposition member, no it's not. That is an image of a Kurdish child escaping Islamic militants. Those are people that refugee status should apply to, instead they get prosecuted and receive violence in countries they run for refuge in.
As a side comment, please leave Jewish history alone. Everyone by now has enough of Europeans misunderstanding, abusing and twisting it.


90% refuge status are denied, because there are no needs, well Kurds yes but , ppl from Serbia apply in Germany, c mon , bulshit , many from nam and Pakistan enter , btw illegally crossing border is crime, can be jails sentence, but many cases they just are deported, and sorry nobody is doing anything in nam, its peaceful, so 99% all are rejected and ppl are deported

if people are no live treaths in home land, they will 99% be deported and wont get refuge status and Deadone is right, if people run away from home because of war, Bulgaria, Albania is good, no not UK social walfare, I hardly get anything from state because they are fuck ups there ,

Europeain history also are twisted ... nobody don't even talk about communist crimes of war in WWII so ... welcome to the real work

Those people who apply from Serbia are mainly Gypsies, FYI.

Albania is good? WOW
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04.09.2015 - 11:10
Candlemass
Defaeco
Written by deadone on 04.09.2015 at 03:38

Most have now been there for so many generations (since 1788) that they can count themselves as Australian through and through.


It's pretty amazing looking at European culture from a historical (genealogy of ideas) perspective. It's a mess of ideas, many of them contradictory, from centuries ago. People still believe in Greek mythology.

"We did not become dwellers in this land by expelling others, nor by
finding it uninhabited, nor by coming together here as a motley horde
of many races. We are a lineage so noble and pure that we have for
all time continued in possession of the very land which gave us birth,
since we are autochthonous, and can address our polis by the very
names which apply to our nearest kin; for we alone of the Greeks have
the right to call it at once fatherland, nurse and mother."

"they were at that time being formed and nurtured deep inside the earth...When they were finished products, the earth, their mother, sent them up above ground; and now in their policy making they must regard the country [khoras] they find themselves in as their mother and their nurse, they must defend her against invasion.*"

Plato (5th century BC) ridiculed the idea as a pseudos (Noble lie), it toke strong root during the centuries, especially during the 19th century, even today in light of modern evolutionary theory the thesis of "born of the earth" still persists.
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04.09.2015 - 13:09
Rasputin

Written by Bad English on 04.09.2015 at 11:27

Written by Rasputin on 04.09.2015 at 10:52

Albania is good? WOW


if in your country are war yes

Nope
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04.09.2015 - 14:23
angel.
Evil Butterfly
Written by Candlemass on 03.09.2015 at 12:16

Here we go...the gruesome if not cynical process of contextualizing a picture of a dead child. This is a classic argumentum ad passiones.

In Sweden for instance, journalists/Public figures contextualized it blaming the Swedish Democrats for the death of refugees. How is that the case? By blaming them for opposing more absorption into Sweden. First, they are not members of the government they don't have any practical immediate policies and there's a while for elections. Second, that's simply a non-sequitur.
Anyone could argue just the opposite, the incentives and the myths they create ("many Syrians have unrealistic expectations about life in the Nordics, assuming they will get access to large homes and cars.") are what that make people go through this dangerous journey in the first place.

Why don't you post images of German homosexuals after being assaulted by Muslim immigrants who are so intolerant of them and so many other people? In Germany*:

"Turks in Germany.... 46% wish that one day more Muslims live in Germany than Christians...two thirds of the Muslims interviewed say that religious rules are more important to them than the laws of the country in which they live, almost 60 percent of the Muslim respondents reject homosexuals as friends; 45 percent think that Jews cannot be trusted."

I think by any standard they fit best in rich Gulf countries who suit them culturally and are much closer to them geographically.




You're so funny Candlemass, do you even read the articles you post? really? I bet you just read two or three lines which interest you. You're terrible at this intellectual gesture you try so hard to keep.
----
The Fangirl.
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04.09.2015 - 14:34
Candlemass
Defaeco
Written by angel. on 04.09.2015 at 14:23

You're so funny Candlemass, do you even read the articles you post? really? I bet you just read two or three lines which interest you. You're terrible at this intellectual gesture you try so hard to keep.


I'm sure you'll elaborate what I missed and how exactly it distorted my points to substantialize your claims.

P.S.
Continuing your line of personally insulting members, instead of addressing what they write, will simply get you ignored and you can go on and talk to people who find this kind of discourse valuable.
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05.09.2015 - 00:53
Rasputin

Written by deadone on 04.09.2015 at 15:03

Written by Rasputin on 04.09.2015 at 10:50


No they actually got a ton of it when the USSR committed suicide. USA was seen as the winner and thus the right ideology. But unlike 1945 when they used things like the Marshall Plan to cement its dominance in Western Europe and parts of Asia, they just sat back and let the world get out of control. And when they acted they acted stupidly and then lost a shitload more influence.

You have a poor grasp on history if you think what Bush and Chaney did were anything outside the norm even in terms of US foreign policy (look up Banana Wars).

As one of the US Marines most celebrated generals, Smedley Butler said:

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

You stood and got bombed. Clap clap. That's not brave, it's stupid.

And you ignore Milosevic and the establishment of Krajina, siege of Sarajevo etc. You're a typical Serbian nationalist and I've met many of your type before, usually on military boards where your lot claim of Serbia being a victim and great victories inflicted against Croat, Bosnian and NATO invaders. Don't worry the wanker Croats are the same in terms of their misdeeds and fucked culture.

Thank you for confirming my opinion that most people tend to fall into stereotypes and you indeed fall into the Serbian stereotype.

The mighty USSR never had the capability for true power projection outside its regional areas. So what makes you think the much smaller and much more neglected Russian military can do?

Since 1960 the only country with such capability is the USA. France and UK had it up to 1960s and then dismantled their militaries once they got out of the colonial game so today can only intervene in small scale ops and not say something like the Suez intervention in 1956 or even the Falklands in 1982.

USA did what any empire did, fucked everyone else over, to include the allies and friends. USA has no friends anymore, aside from Israel who keeps getting aid for some reason. The other part is that USA government is too big to function properly, too corrupt to make a change for the better and too greedy to stop toppling regimes they do not like in order to steal the resources. The colonization never ended, we just call it Globalization now.

Bush and Chaney were some of the examples, USA has been meddling and extending Corporate interests for over a century. Confessions of an Economic Hitman was a great read among others, which clearly demonstrates the coups that were funded and orchestrated by the USA.

Please do tell, what great War has Croatia fought an won instead of running away or just joining with whichever force came through? I keep hearing about the brave Croatian soldiers, yet in history books and reports from even WWI, WWII and 1990's we hear nothing but disgust, atrocity and inhumanity. I strongly recommend for Jasenovac diaries to be read, where they in detail explained what they did to Serbian children, and now Ustasha's are heroes. Clap, clap, good job.

Milosevic establishment of Krajina? You mean the territory that was ethnically cleansed and where people were pushed out as a "legal operation?" Right. Krajina, large portion of BiH belonged to Serbia according to the treaty, however that was waived for the sake of Yugoslavia, so naturally, since you did not want to be in Yugoslavia anymore, you lost the claim to that land. I wonder how you would judge things, if the roles were reversed, if Croatia wanted to preserve Yugoslavia and Serbia wanted to separate, I wonder if you would be so nonchalant. What about Sarajevo? The Serb side tried to prevent a war, but again with the aid of the West, and the war profiteering that was created by the UN/NATO it turned into a disaster. There are no Bosnians, all those are Muslim Serbs, but thanks to the insane ideology, the Slavs have been separated to fight each other, and a lot of it we can thank the Catholic church for, since we all know that Croatia was Clero-Fascist and that Slovenia was just bidding it's time to separate because they were more Western than they were Slav.

I for one do not claim we inflicted great victory against the Muslims, Croats and NATO, but luckily we at least were able to preserve some Serbian lives in the form of Republika Srpska.

Russia is not SSSR, and Russia today is not Russia from 1995 where they did not have shit. They are evolving, and they are building their power again. While I agree that on a long term scale the Russians may not sustain their presence in the Middle East, they still have more tricks up their sleeves, since USA is slowing down with it's massive debt, and I think China will surpass both Russia and USA, and it will be interesting to see how that will go.
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05.09.2015 - 13:58
angel.
Evil Butterfly
For all you guys who think that the war was only because of religion :

http://www.filmsforaction.org/articles/syrias-climate-conflict/

There's no such thing as illiberal immigrant, talking about Syrians, actually they were fighting for being liberal.
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The Fangirl.
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05.09.2015 - 14:01
angel.
Evil Butterfly
Written by deadone on 04.09.2015 at 15:12

Written by angel. on 04.09.2015 at 14:23


Here we go...the gruesome if not cynical process of contextualizing a picture of a dead child. This is a classic argumentum ad passiones.




I was horrified at the usage of the image of that dead child. The sad thing is it's being used to justify more Islamic immigration to Europe as opposed to peace in the Middle East. Surely stopping the war is a better outcome than just sending all its people somewhere else (ie cure the illness, not the symptoms)..

But the left doesn't want peace in the middle east. That would rob it of some of its main slogans - "Evil USA, evil capitalism and evil Israel are responsible for all the ills in the region" and "West is a bunch of racists if they don't let more migrants in."


It's terribly shameful that there must be horrible incident and a tragic photo to make reactions father than typical activists actually if it ever goes farther than that, by having someone like candlesmass as an example who is deprived of humane feelings. His reaction was as much as this is the emotional game of media. Yeah right! We're talking about a humanity tragedy and all concerns candlemass is the illiberal immigrants whom apparently must be dead by those forces destroying down Syria to dust.
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The Fangirl.
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05.09.2015 - 14:30
Candlemass
Defaeco
Written by angel. on 05.09.2015 at 14:01

It's terribly shameful that there must be horrible incident and a tragic photo to make reactions father than typical activists actually if it ever goes farther than that, by having someone like candlesmass as an example who is deprived of humane feelings. His reaction was as much as this is the emotional game of media. Yeah right! We're talking about a humanity tragedy and all concerns candlemass is the illiberal immigrants whom apparently must be dead by those forces destroying down Syria to dust.


I'm still waiting for you to back up your vicious claims from your previous post, instead you continue the same line of fallacious argumentation that is by now simply disingenuous.

Death pornography goes both ways, I made it clear by now without being as vulgar as your posts. I can post pictures of Scandinavian women being raped and murdered or assaulted homosexuals and go on about your ad-hominems "deprived of humane feelings". The way you feel, however strongly, about an argument, is not what makes an argument valid nor attacking someone in a conversation make you right and him wrong.
I'm not deprived of human emotions as a matter of fact, I care a lot about many things, and the immigration under the current setting of "illiberal immigrants " is a disaster and not fitting to say the least. That's my argument, which instead of addressing, you're looking to organize a public stoning.

No, going back to a refugee camp in Lebanon or Turkey does not mean probable death, does it? Where is your evidence expect melodramatic statements and insulting people?

Your understating of human emotions and their relations to rationality is probably as shallow and annoying as your posts.

It's not that people are being "emotionless", it's about them being thoughtful and you employing by-the-book cheap manipulations again and again.
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07.09.2015 - 03:22
no one
Account deleted
The government here is letting 300 more refugees in now after that dead child clip
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07.09.2015 - 06:08
no one
Account deleted
Everybodys complaining that its a poor effort and there should be more (annually)
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