Written by Dane Train on 03.03.2009 at 18:17

Let people stick whatever label onto Metal bands as they want to. It is kind of necessary. Can't we sort of understand the need for the term "core". As everyone knows there is a huge difference between:
Blackened-Progressive-Gothic-Pepsi-Death-Doom-Ben Hur-Gore-Avent Garde-Thrash-Speed-Last of the Mohicans-Psychedelic-Trip Hop-Experimental-Dance-Techno-Industrial-Post Rock-Salamander-Sludge-Drone-Ambient Metal
and
Blackened-Progressive-Gothic-Pepsi-Death-Doom-Ben Hur-Gore-Avent Garde-Thrash-Speed-Last of the Mohicans-Psychedelic-Trip Hop-Experimental-Dance-Techno-Industrial-Post Rock-Salamander-Sludge-Drone-Ambient Metalcore.

But as for people getting upset about "Religious" Black Metal all I have to say is: GROW UP! You don't own Black Metal, or any other form of music. Music is art and can be used in all different ways. Heck, at my church we use Death and Black Metal music during worship. That's right, a CHRISTIAN church uses your precious grim music to worship Jesus.

there is a "last of the mohicans" metal?

Well I too saw this documentary and I have to say that I find it all a little bizarre. Firstly, isn't Christian Metal meant to be called 'White' Metal? Secondly, did it really ever catch on (who remembers the band Believer?)

Black Metal is called 'Black' for a reason (and no it isn't because of Venom). It is a dark, evil sounding music which focusses lyrically and image-wise on everything ANTI-religious. It is a ridiculous situation if bands who are Christian and pro-religion are calling themselves Black Metal, even if they have the right sound to their music. There were no bands on the documentary that sounded any good and the whole thing, as far as I am concerned, is pointless.

Let's face it, it has always been said that Metal is the devil's music and that is even more apparent for Black Metal. Bands like Burzum, early Emperor, Profanatica, Marduk, early Impaled Nazarene and so on can never be equalled - so the message to all the religious filth out there is DON'T EVEN TRY BECAUSE YOU WILL GET BURNT!

religion =/= christianity

I really don't know why this argument is still going on. The Christian bands that play this music usually don't call themselves black metal. If anything, religious black metal should refer to the satanic bands. Religious metal, in terms of Christianity, is called white or unblack metal. It's funny how the black metal elite complain about there being Christians playing extreme metal. They sound like a bunch of girly men moaning over their problems. "whaaaaaaaaa! I'm not getting my way in the world." <-- That's what they sound like.

Vaakevandring...
[/thread]

Written by WITCHCLAN on 03.03.2009 at 23:16

Well I too saw this documentary and I have to say that I find it all a little bizarre. Firstly, isn't Christian Metal meant to be called 'White' Metal? Secondly, did it really ever catch on (who remembers the band Believer?)

Black Metal is called 'Black' for a reason (and no it isn't because of Venom). It is a dark, evil sounding music which focusses lyrically and image-wise on everything ANTI-religious. It is a ridiculous situation if bands who are Christian and pro-religion are calling themselves Black Metal, even if they have the right sound to their music. There were no bands on the documentary that sounded any good and the whole thing, as far as I am concerned, is pointless.

Let's face it, it has always been said that Metal is the devil's music and that is even more apparent for Black Metal. Bands like Burzum, early Emperor, Profanatica, Marduk, early Impaled Nazarene and so on can never be equalled - so the message to all the religious filth out there is DON'T EVEN TRY BECAUSE YOU WILL GET BURNT!

they call it black metal because it is burnt with the fire of hell XD

Written by WITCHCLAN on 03.03.2009 at 23:16

so the message to all the religious filth out there is DON'T EVEN TRY BECAUSE YOU WILL GET BURNT!

Who is going to burn me? You?

Written by Dane Train on 06.03.2009 at 02:20

Written by WITCHCLAN on 03.03.2009 at 23:16

so the message to all the religious filth out there is DON'T EVEN TRY BECAUSE YOU WILL GET BURNT!

Who is going to burn me? You?

Yeah, get burnt? Really? This sounds like what a 15-year-old in a Slipknot shirt might say...the closemindedness of people on this forum is something I thought I would escape here in a seemingly more mature metal site, but it seems Metalstorm is becoming more like blabbermouth.net everyday, even the mods are starting to act childish sometimes.

Written by Guest on 06.03.2009 at 03:24

Yeah, get burnt? Really? This sounds like what a 15-year-old in a Slipknot shirt might say...the closemindedness of people on this forum is something I thought I would escape here in a seemingly more mature metal site, but it seems Metalstorm is becoming more like blabbermouth.net everyday, even the mods are starting to act childish sometimes.

Really? I'd say that compared to a lot of other communities (Metal Archives comes to mind), MS is very lenient and allows a lot of immaturity to take place. It's still a lot better than places such as Blabbermouth or Anus.com but it shouldn't be seen as a bastion of maturity within the internet metal scene (if there even is such a thing).

As for what I think, I respect bands such as Antestor and Crimson Moonlight for the fact that they make quality music. I still don't listen to it myself though since their background just feels wrong somehow and doesn't go well with the music. It's not that I dislike them based on the fact that they're christian but it's more that it keeps me from enjoying them properly since it just seems too wrong and unfitting. I listen to a lot of other christian metal though, just not of the blacker variant.

Written by ForeverDarkWoods on 06.03.2009 at 13:47


As for what I think, I respect bands such as Antestor and Crimson Moonlight for the fact that they make quality music. I still don't listen to it myself though since their background just feels wrong somehow and doesn't go well with the music. It's not that I dislike them based on the fact that they're christian but it's more that it keeps me from enjoying them properly since it just seems too wrong and unfitting. I listen to a lot of other christian metal though, just not of the blacker variant.

Well, almost the opposite is true for me. I can't stand listening to satanic/ Christian hating black metal...The hatred of the lyrics and musicians reminds me of the kind of hatred Islamic extremists have and makes me sick to my stomach. I just don't understand that kind of hate. Plus the sound, especially that of bands like Dimmu Borgir, with the symphonic elements, sounds majestic and beautiful, which seems like music that would fit honoring God more than satan, but that's just me. I've always seen beauty in the black metal sound and not evil.

Written by Guest on 09.03.2009 at 05:16

Written by ForeverDarkWoods on 06.03.2009 at 13:47


As for what I think, I respect bands such as Antestor and Crimson Moonlight for the fact that they make quality music. I still don't listen to it myself though since their background just feels wrong somehow and doesn't go well with the music. It's not that I dislike them based on the fact that they're christian but it's more that it keeps me from enjoying them properly since it just seems too wrong and unfitting. I listen to a lot of other christian metal though, just not of the blacker variant.

Well, almost the opposite is true for me. I can't stand listening to satanic/ Christian hating black metal...The hatred of the lyrics and musicians reminds me of the kind of hatred Islamic extremists have and makes me sick to my stomach. I just don't understand that kind of hate. Plus the sound, especially that of bands like Dimmu Borgir, with the symphonic elements, sounds majestic and beautiful, which seems like music that would fit honoring God more than satan, but that's just me. I've always seen beauty in the black metal sound and not evil.

This is almost the opposite of what I think though. In fact, I'd say that if black metal has come to the stage where the hatred is lost, it has long since died and the remaining bands are just raping it's corpse.

About satanism though, have you tried to listen to the bands that don't sing about killing/hating Christians, but who just preach the satanic religion. There doesn't have to be much hate to these bands, and there are bands that limit themselves to glorify the spiritual worship of Satan and the the beauty of darkness (as opposed to light). Later Deathspell Omega for instance have taken a very philosophical and abstract approach to satanic spirituality rather than do the standard "Kill Christ! Hail Satan! Burn Churches! Sodomize Virgin Whores!" approach that I'm sorry to say has become so prevalent in black metal.

Written by Guest on 06.03.2009 at 03:24

Written by Dane Train on 06.03.2009 at 02:20

Written by WITCHCLAN on 03.03.2009 at 23:16

so the message to all the religious filth out there is DON'T EVEN TRY BECAUSE YOU WILL GET BURNT!

Who is going to burn me? You?

Yeah, get burnt? Really? This sounds like what a 15-year-old in a Slipknot shirt might say...the closemindedness of people on this forum is something I thought I would escape here in a seemingly more mature metal site, but it seems Metalstorm is becoming more like blabbermouth.net everyday, even the mods are starting to act childish sometimes.

Get burnt as a figure of speech meaning burnt out by the mass of REAL Black Metal, not literally burnt. As for being childish, I fail to see how my statement is childish and fail to see how it was actually worth the time to write a reply...
I take it you are a Christian White Metaller and I seem to have hit nerve, sorry about that.:devil:

Written by WITCHCLAN on 10.03.2009 at 22:05

Get burnt as a figure of speech meaning burnt out by the mass of REAL Black Metal, not literally burnt.

What does that even mean?

Just meaning that real Black Metal will always be bigger and this White Metal stuff will eventually be burnt out because of it.

Written by WITCHCLAN on 10.03.2009 at 22:40

Just meaning that real Black Metal will always be bigger and this White Metal stuff will eventually be burnt out because of it.

Well since there actually is no such genre as "White" or "Christian" Metal, it isn't difficult for Black Metal to be bigger than it. As for the number of Metal musicians who are Christians, well that number is growing more and more every year. It won't go away, and that is just a fact that you'll have to come to terms with.

Written by Dane Train on 10.03.2009 at 22:49

Written by WITCHCLAN on 10.03.2009 at 22:40

Just meaning that real Black Metal will always be bigger and this White Metal stuff will eventually be burnt out because of it.

Well since there actually is no such genre as "White" or "Christian" Metal, it isn't difficult for Black Metal to be bigger than it. As for the number of Metal musicians who are Christians, well that number is growing more and more every year. It won't go away, and that is just a fact that you'll have to come to terms with.

Hmmm, ok then - why don't you search Christian Metal in wikipedia..?

Written by WITCHCLAN on 10.03.2009 at 23:01

Hmmm, ok then - why don't you search Christian Metal in wikipedia..?

OK, and let us peer into what the wise and mighty Wikipedia has to tell us:

"Christian metal is a form of heavy metal music which, as well as its many subgenres, contains Christian lyrics and themes."
"Christian metal is not a solitary style of music, but rather comprises almost every subgenre of heavy metal music."

Looks to me like it is a lyrical theme within Metal bands and not describing any one style thereby not making it a genre. The term "Christian Metal" is used because it is much easier than saying "Metal bands with Christian members writing lyrics pertaining to some aspect of Christianity."

The number of Christian bands is growing, as well as the number of bands with members becoming Christians. Not to mention the emergence of Christian Heavy Metal Churches.

Written by Dane Train on 10.03.2009 at 23:16
The number of Christian bands is growing, as well as the number of bands with members becoming Christians.

I assume this is anecdotal; please cite sources otherwise. And if the number of Christian metal bands is growing I'd say "so what"? Unless you can show that they are increasing at a rate greater than nonChristian metal bands it doesn't have much significance. I especially doubt your assertions in the American context, given such recent surveys as:

15 Percent of Americans Have No Religion
"The survey of more than 54,000 people conducted between February and November of last year showed that the percentage of Americans identifying as Christians has dropped to 76 percent of the population, down from 86 percent in 1990."

Written by totaliteraliter on 11.03.2009 at 02:40

Written by Dane Train on 10.03.2009 at 23:16
The number of Christian bands is growing, as well as the number of bands with members becoming Christians.

I assume this is anecdotal; please cite sources otherwise. And if the number of Christian metal bands is growing I'd say "so what"? Unless you can show that they are increasing at a rate greater than nonChristian metal bands it doesn't have much significance. I especially doubt your assertions in the American context, given such recent surveys as:

I don't have any source right off hand, but I thought it was something that was pretty obvious. The Metalcore scene is dominated by Christian bands. There are more Death and Black Metal Christian bands emerging these days, not to mention the already saturated Progressive Metal scene with Christian artists. But they are not growing faster than non-Christian bands, and as you said "so what?" My point was to say that Christian Metal is not going away, and if anything, it is growing more than ever.

Written by Dane Train on 11.03.2009 at 02:58
My point was to say that Christian Metal is not going away, and if anything, it is growing more than ever.

And my point was that your claims would be much more interesting if you had any evidence to back them up.

What sort of "evidence" would you like?

Written by Dane Train on 11.03.2009 at 03:11
What sort of "evidence" would you like?

Non-anecdotal.

Written by WITCHCLAN on 10.03.2009 at 22:05
Get burnt as a figure of speech meaning burnt out by the mass of REAL Black Metal, not literally burnt. As for being childish, I fail to see how my statement is childish and fail to see how it was actually worth the time to write a reply...
I take it you are a Christian White Metaller and I seem to have hit nerve, sorry about that.:devil:

I listen to bands that have Christian lyrics and musicians, yes, but no, you have not hit a nerve. I just think that we should be able to argue the other point without being told that we're going to get burnt. This is about arguing not attacking.


In essence, metal music is just guitars, bass, drums and vocals. Its not the devils music, unless you sing about him. You could make devil rap, blues, country, pop, or rock music if you wanted to. To say that Christians can't play metal and apply their own beliefs in the lyrics is just silly.
I know some of you don't like Christians playing the music because A: You don't like the religion and B: You see Christian metal as a venue for Christians to force their beliefs on others.
Well for starters, most Christian metal bands aren't forcing their beliefs on others because A: they are usually playing to audiences of people who are already Christians or who simply don't care enough what the bands message is to get upset over it. and B: Just because you don't like the religion, doesn't mean that Christians can't play the music. For example someone may not like homosexual relationships, but that doesn't mean gays don't exist.
My advice is, if you don't like Christian themed metal, just stay away from it. It's out there, it's not going to go away, so you might as well just leave it at that.

Written by Guest on 11.03.2009 at 05:26
To say that Christians can't play metal and apply their own beliefs in the lyrics is just silly.

Only the most zealous black metallers would argue that they "can't" play black metal (as in they physically should not be allowed to make metal sounds with their instruments). I don't necessarily see anyone here saying that, although WITCHCLAN 2010 seems like a pretty "zealous" individual. The debate is around whether this is a good idea, and more relevantly whether the product of their actions should be called (black) metal. The debate is ongoing, and I'm sorry to inform you that your concept of metal's "essence" is not an absolute truth. Try to understand both sides of the argument. Because right now: "whaaaaaaaaa! I'm not getting my way in the world." <-- That's what you sound like.

Who in the world called it black metal anyway? I was a bit skeptical about this thread at first. It does sound like an oxymoron. but whose to say what people can or cannot do? You? pffftttt.... If Children Of Bodom can cover a Britney song then a church can worship God using metal. Uh...ever hear of Demonhunter? It wouldn't be the first time I've heard of this. I actually enjoy it. If anything it should open a new genre "WHITE METAL", they probably already call it that. it sounds pretty cool but why would you wanna call something religious black? Isn't black a symbol for hatred and darkness, despair and torment? That sounds silly. I don't necessarily believe in organized religion cuz christianity has like, ten or so separate churches when they all believe in the same things, thats silly, using any genre, be it polka for all i care to worship God, is not. Seriously, does white metal sound any less tempting than black metal? Lets start a new genre, white metal!!!! lol actually don't really care what you call it, its still metal whether any of you like it or not. and uh how is black metal religious? even in terms of satanism? Seriously, you all sound racist! even though its not a race but hell, its no different than when someone said a black person couldn't play metal. God Forbid proved that jackass wrong. I agree with Dane Train, none of you own the music so shut the hell up! or shut the heaven up! I don't care!

Looks like many un-dude types are throwing many opinions about nothing.

We sound racist, lol.

Written by TheBigRossowski on 11.03.2009 at 15:44

Looks like many un-dude types are throwing many opinions about nothing.

We sound racist, lol.

Nothing huh? I was only using racism as an example. Any way you look at it, ignorance and intolerance just pours from this page. Now that is very un-dude like. 8 year-olds dude....

Written by {aud}devil on 11.03.2009 at 09:00
I was a bit skeptical about this thread at first. It does sound like an oxymoron. but whose to say what people can or cannot do? You? pffftttt....

Really, people ought to read the thread before they start with the hypocritical whining. Your questions have largely been answered.

Written by {aud}devil on 11.03.2009 at 09:00
christianity has like, ten or so separate churches

I hope that was a joke because it made me laugh.

Back to the topic: I don't think that religious black metal is a contradiction because some black metal bands use satanic religious elements, not just ideologies, in their music. There are also black metal bands that use neo pagan religious elements in their lyrics. So yeah, sure there are religious black metal bands. There are Christians that play the same style too, but like I've said before, they usually don't refer to themselves as black metal. Metal genres aren't generally broken down into religious sub genres; There are Christian bands that label themselves as thrash, power, glam, death, hardcore, and other types of metal, but when it comes to black it's like there is some unseen shield that bars them from using that term. A lot of black metal bands that are against Christianity are against the mass organized religious institutions and not so much individuals themselves. I don't think Christian bands that use the black metal style necessarily associate with the mass organized groups anyway, i.e. they don't receive financial or much other support from them. I know that some Christian metallers go to alternative churches that are out of the mainstream associations, I've been invited to one by a band before. I think a lot of the Christian metallers see a lot of the corruption that can come from organized and very controlled religion. So in a lot of ways, these bands share that in common with antiChristian black metallers. With this being the case, it would seem that black metallers would be more tollerant of Christians playing this style, but who knows?

Written by {aud}devil on 11.03.2009 at 17:27

Written by TheBigRossowski on 11.03.2009 at 15:44

Looks like many un-dude types are throwing many opinions about nothing.

We sound racist, lol.

Nothing huh? I was only using racism as an example. Any way you look at it, ignorance and intolerance just pours from this page. Now that is very un-dude like. 8 year-olds dude....

I dig your style man...the whole cowboy thing, lol. You really should read some of the pages before this though.

I guess I was out of my element when I was talking about 'orthodox' black metal. This thread is REALLY about the existence of CHRISTIAN black metal. That's a tough one when you try to think about the 'ideology' and symbolism behind black metal. It's meant to be about Satan (theistic or otherwise) and OVERALL...darkness in man.

Black metal is from Venom(theatric) to Aosoth(O.N.A.) regardless if it was all a 'show' or if the artist believes in Lucifer. But one thing that crosses my mind... why would we consider Enslaved black metal then?

*Orthodox black metal remains a separate entity.
*You guys can have your 'white metal' tag, I don't give a fuck.