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The original post

Posted by tulkas on 14.07.2006 at 09:15
Outside metal one of my favorite bands is Slipknot. I really like it for all the ideology they transmit with their music and their lyrics, which I consider the best I´ve seen. The thing is, a lot of my friends bother me because they don´t like it for some reason, soooo I just wanted to hear your opinion about this band, whether you like it or not and why, and if there´s any other fans like me out there?



Page 20 of 24

Ozman
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36712

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  02.01.2013 at 19:39
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 02.01.2013 at 19:38

Written by Ozman on 02.01.2013 at 19:36


you forgot to mention pop such as Sabaton and Luca Turrilli (solo)

I did spot them actually and just figured a fan of Rhapsody covers most forms of cheesy pop, though then again I haven't listened to either of those that extensively.



actually Sabato is ten times worse than Rhapsody in my books when it comes to souped up pop music.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 15420

Age: 30
From: UK

  02.01.2013 at 19:47
Written by Ozman on 02.01.2013 at 19:39

actually Sabato is ten times worse than Rhapsody in my books when it comes to souped up pop music.

I'll take your word on that
----
Angelic Storm
Melodious

Posts: 6656
From: UK

  02.01.2013 at 22:27
Written by Ozman on 02.01.2013 at 18:32
But they were and still are totally metal. No matter what you think of the band's music.


Precisely.

I do think that is the number one way you can tell whether someone genuinely dislikes Slipknot's music on it's own merits, or is just a bandwagon jumper, bashing Slipknot as a way of trying to fit in with the "real metal" crowd. I never take issue with people saying they hate Slipknot, but as soon as they say that Slipknot are "not metal", that's when my poser radar starts going off!
Lit.
Brütal Legend

Posts: 3784

Age: 27
From: USA

  03.01.2013 at 02:44
Slipknot > Rhapsody of Fire
----
REPUBLICAN CAR!
Metalandy92

Posts: 50
From: Norway
  03.01.2013 at 11:07
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 02.01.2013 at 19:34

Angry 15 year old Norwegian Rhapsody Of Fire fan denounces Slipknot's metal status.

The world keeps on spinning.


Im not 15 years old.And Rhapsody of fire beats those fags easily.
At least rhapsody is a metal band.
Metalandy92

Posts: 50
From: Norway
  03.01.2013 at 11:09
Written by Ozman on 02.01.2013 at 19:36

Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 02.01.2013 at 19:34

Angry 15 year old Norwegian Rhapsody Of Fire fan



you forgot to mention pop such as Sabaton and Luca Turrilli (solo)


How is sabaton pop and at least Luca Turilli is a good guitarist.
Metalandy92

Posts: 50
From: Norway
  03.01.2013 at 11:11
Even Bieber and Avenged sevenfold is better than shitknot.
Metalandy92

Posts: 50
From: Norway
  03.01.2013 at 11:16
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 02.01.2013 at 19:34

Angry 15 year old Norwegian Rhapsody Of Fire fan denounces Slipknot's metal status.

The world keeps on spinning.

And thats coming from a system of a clown fan?
Ozman
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36712

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  03.01.2013 at 12:27
Written by Guest on 03.01.2013 at 11:29

Written by Angelic Storm on 02.01.2013 at 22:27

I never take issue with people saying they hate Slipknot, but as soon as they say that Slipknot are "not metal", that's when my poser radar starts going off!

hmm, well according to the metal archives, they are NOT metal and not a single album by them is fully metal for them to be considered a metal band. so incase someone is new to metal and get their info from ma (the largest metal resource on the internet) i don't see why your poser radar goes off when someone says they are not metal.I dunno, but when it comes to metal or not, i trust metal archives the most.. whether slipknot or any other band MA rejects are good or suck is another topic all together.
on Slipknot, i do enjoy some of their songs but I HATE masked bands and therefore that aspects puts me off to some extent..



MA are a joke when it comes to judging whether bands are metal or not.
Case in point Burnt By The Sun all albums are considered metal by them and not a single one by The Dillinger Escpae Plan, Burnt By The Sun and Dillinger clearly play the same sort of metal, so why consider one as metal and not the other?
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Metalandy92

Posts: 50
From: Norway
  03.01.2013 at 12:52
Written by Cynic Metalhead on 02.01.2013 at 18:21

Written by Metalandy92 on 02.01.2013 at 14:31

Written by Angelic Storm on 25.07.2012 at 17:58

Written by Troy Killjoy on 25.07.2012 at 17:47

Written by artking01 on 25.07.2012 at 17:43
I barely know people who doesn't like Slipknot who listens to metal.

You must not know a lot of people online.


Yup! From my own personal experience of metalheads online, most hate Slipknot. And most of them don't even regard Slipknot as even being metal at all...


Shitknot is not metal at all.
They should be labeled shit

Have you ever hear surfacing that song is terrible,worst intro ever.
And why the fuck is there 1 305 789 members in the band?



*dropkick on your face*

Slipknot's success is much more than your age. It's too banal that they just got bashed up by some hating chauvinist metalheads over their downgrading musical directions. But, it's too irritating to call "Slipknot is shit". You don't have a fucking rights to label them as "Shit".

Don't forget they're great live and have strong fucking fan following than you could ever counted your legit ancestors.


They are fucking terrible and the maggots(faggots) is annoying kids.They are shit and they sucks dick live.
Paul Gray sucked dick at bass
I actually find it offensive that Corey Taylor is interviewed in several Thrash Metal documentaries.They are not Thrash and they are nothing compared to greats like Megadeth and Slayer.
Ozman
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36712

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  03.01.2013 at 12:55
Written by Guest on 03.01.2013 at 12:48

Written by Ozman on 03.01.2013 at 12:27

MA are a joke when it comes to judging whether bands are metal or not.
Case in point Burnt By The Sun all albums are considered metal by them and not a single one by The Dillinger Escpae Plan, Burnt By The Sun and Dillinger clearly play the same sort of metal, so why consider one as metal and not the other?

"You told it - MATHCORE band.
The only disgrace are annoying modern core fans like you, who cannot get from the rules, which kind of bands is banned here.
They will NEVER get listed here with their current style - final and definitive answer."

copied that from metal archives
i 100% support what metal archives are doing, at the end of the day someone has to define what metal is and is not.. i know they reject some bands which sound like others that have been accepted, but here i will apply a classic phrase i think i read somewhere on this website, just because we have accepted band x that is non-metal is no reason to add more non-metal bands to our database, or something in that vein.. and a band doesn't have to be labelled metal to be good, if they don't qualify as per ma rules too bad for them.


It is pathetic denying Dillinger Escape Plan as metal, same for Slipknot. The mods at MA are a bunch of morons who think of themselves as being important by saying what bands are metal and which are not. MA and its mods are clearly on a power trip.

Well, anyone with any real pulling power and influence in the metal industry finds MA the biggest joke around when it comes to classifying bands as metal or not. the only thing MA is good for is as database and even there you have to look out, for a lot of times bootlegs are there mentioned as demo's, or demo's are missing (such as the Power Metal demo in Metallica's discography)
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Angelic Storm
Melodious

Posts: 6656
From: UK

  03.01.2013 at 13:08
Written by Ozman on 03.01.2013 at 12:55
The only thing MA is good for is as database and even there you have to look out, for a lot of times bootlegs are there mentioned as demo's, or demo's are missing (such as the Power Metal demo in Metallica's discography)


Yep, Marcel is spot on when it comes to Metal Archives.

When it comes to judging whether or not a band is metal, the music and the music alone needs to be the sole criteria on which that decision is based. This is definitely not the case on MA, so in my eyes they have no credibility as far as that goes. It does have a great database, though as Marcel says, even that is flawed.

MA's views on what constitutes metal and what doesn't, should not be considered as gospel, and anyone who thinks it should be, is very likely the type of metalhead I described just a few posts up from this one.
Ozman
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36712

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  03.01.2013 at 13:56
Written by Guest on 03.01.2013 at 13:44


you do know that when you say its a good database you are contradicting yourself.. remember all the bands were subjected to the same aggregate set of rules and therefore if you do agree its a good database that means you agree with their set of rules as to what is metal and what is not.



it is a good database in the sense of the sheer number of bands in there and the releases in there and the line-ups of current and old band members, but not a good database when it comes to what THEY think is metal and what is not.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Ozman
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36712

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  03.01.2013 at 13:57
Written by Guest on 03.01.2013 at 13:44

Written by Angelic Storm on 03.01.2013 at 13:08

... what the metal experts say is metal ...

self-proclaimed experts.
It is clear they aren't experts at all when they leave out Slipknot who are clearly metal.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Angelic Storm
Melodious

Posts: 6656
From: UK

  03.01.2013 at 14:39
Written by Ozman on 03.01.2013 at 13:56
it is a good database in the sense of the sheer number of bands in there and the releases in there and the line-ups of current and old band members, but not a good database when it comes to what THEY think is metal and what is not.


Precisely.
!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 15420

Age: 30
From: UK

  03.01.2013 at 15:45
Written by Metalandy92 on 03.01.2013 at 11:07


Im not 15 years old.And Rhapsody of fire beats those fags easily.
At least rhapsody is a metal band.

You're right, going by the way you gauge and react to metal you're probably closer to 13. At the moment you're currently the most superficial form of metal "poser". Anyone that earnestly dolls out terms like "fags" needs to have their internet privileges taken away from them by their parents until they're old enough to think for themselves.
----
!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 15420

Age: 30
From: UK

  03.01.2013 at 15:59
Written by Guest on 03.01.2013 at 13:44

you do know that when you say its a good database you are contradicting yourself.. remember all the bands were subjected to the same aggregate set of rules and therefore if you do agree its a good database that means you agree with their set of rules as to what is metal and what is not. it seems to me you only agree with them when they agree with you as to what is metal but when they disagree with you as to what is not metal, you all over sudden seem to not trust their judgement. of course its solely the music that is used to judge whether a given band is metal or not, read the explanations(of which they are kind to extend) when a given band is rejected.. I do consider it gospel and if by trusting what the metal experts say is metal and what is not is poseurism to you, fine by me.. btw, i do enjoy some of the bands rejected there, just that means that the bands are NOT metal and NOT that they are bad

You are exceptionally naive if you consider MA to be the gospel holders of what is and isn't metal. I can only assume you've become smitten with the fame and notoriety of the site, but the general consensus is that MA, whilst being a good database in the sense of scope of bands and relative accuracy of information, that they're beyond arbitrary and personally selective when it comes to accepting genuine metal bands on there (not to mention have absolutely zero quality control on user-submited reviews. but that's another point altogether). The fact they allow a number of brazenly non-metal bands onto the database like Professor Fate, Of the Wand & the Moon, Hexvessel, Elend and so on, yet omit quite clearly metal bands like Yakuza, Tombs, Angelic Process (despite the fact that Nadja, a considerably less metal version of them are on there), Agoraphobic Nosebleed (despite the fact they have hundreds of other grind bands on there) etc. is just some of the many forms of evidence of their inability, or unwillingness, to correctly identify metal and conform to their own rules.

Take a step back, look at the facts, learn to think for yourself for a change and stop putting your faith into a small handful of elitists who hold no real credentials on deciding what is and isn't metal. If you think Slipknot are not metal then you're as simple-minded and as affected by internet cool-guy bias as that 15 year old Norwegian Slipknot hater.
----
Ozman
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36712

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  03.01.2013 at 16:04
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 03.01.2013 at 15:59

Hexvessel, ...


Hexvessel is in there? WOW, I wonder on what grounds. Can't be on the ground one of the band members used to be in a metal band cause than Agoraphobic Nosebleed should also be included.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 15420

Age: 30
From: UK

  03.01.2013 at 16:07
Written by Ozman on 03.01.2013 at 16:04


Hexvessel is in there? WOW, I wonder on what grounds. Can't be on the ground one of the band members used to be in a metal band cause than Agoraphobic Nosebleed should also be included.

Yes I found Hexvessel's sudden inclusion on MA to be a surprise. But at the same time when you consider it along with all the other non-metal folky bands that are on there it shows that one of the MA higher ups clearly has a boner for this kind of music, once again highlighting how arbitrary the decision making processes are.
----
Ozman
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36712

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  03.01.2013 at 16:10
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 03.01.2013 at 16:07

Written by Ozman on 03.01.2013 at 16:04


Hexvessel is in there? WOW, I wonder on what grounds. Can't be on the ground one of the band members used to be in a metal band cause than Agoraphobic Nosebleed should also be included.

Yes I found Hexvessel's sudden inclusion on MA to be a surprise. But at the same time when you consider it along with all the other non-metal folky bands that are on there it shows that one of the MA higher ups clearly has a boner for this kind of music, once again highlighting how arbitrary the decision making processes are.



or reckons, "since those folky sorts of bands play Roadburn they must be metal", but in the meantime not realizing that Roadburn actually isn't a metal fest as such although it features loads of metal
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 15420

Age: 30
From: UK

  03.01.2013 at 16:44
Written by Guest on 03.01.2013 at 16:33

of the wand and the moon is a side project by an ex-Saturnus member, they do accept side projects of musicians who are clearly in metal bands


As Marcel stated, Agoraphobic Nosebleed, and thousands of other bands, have band members that are in metal bands, yet aren't included on MA. How do you explain that? Minus 1 for MA's brilliant rule system.

Quote:
but i do know they have been listened to and if they aren't metal that's too bad for them


Do you know the site members well then? Because I very much doubt you do. I think you've read their rules and scooted around the site a few times and assumed they have Godly powers and listen, IMPARTIALLY, to every band that comes their way. Also, if what you say is true and that they do listen to every band that comes through the site then why is there a report band function? And why have bands been removed AFTER being added to the site? Why? Because the higher ups DO NOT listen to every band that goes into the database so please stop going around purporting to know what each staff member does when in fact you've probably never had a single discussion with any of them.

Quote:
so what makes you think that you do hold credentials for deciding that they are metal?


I don't, but thousands upon thousands of people generally agree and consider MA to be extremely lacking with regards to many aspects of the site so that does indeed hold a higher credential than a small group of elitist mods on a single website. It's called logic and education. MA has been around since 2002. Metal has been around since the 70s at least. There are many metal sites that existed before MA, and most of them hold better and more logical insights into what is and isn't metal than MA.

Quote:
controversial issues be they artistic or scientific,leaning to one side doesn't make you simple minded it just means you are more convinced by the arguments raised by one side of the issue.. and therefore i am convinced more by the guys at metal archives on the slipknot question and them not being metal.. whether they suck or not that's is where metal archives has no ultimate decision. Am pretty sure their are mods over there who enjoy slipknot, but they aren't metal and that is something they respect.


What arguments? Where are these arguments you speak of? Myself and others have shown you numerous examples of holes and fallacies in MA's ruling system yet you decide to turn your head blindly to it. Seeing as you're a poster child and a product of metal archives please tell me why Slipknot is not metal enough for MA, yet they allow many forms of post-metal, neo-folk, industrial and noise bands and so on.
----
!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 15420

Age: 30
From: UK

  03.01.2013 at 17:03
Written by Guest on 03.01.2013 at 17:01

they are also thousands like you say who see MA as credible and they have been listening to metal since who knows when(or are you going to tell me to show evidence of the thousand?), meh, am not continuing with these argument. but like i said i will continue to trust MA more till the day i come across something i highly find inaccurate.

Actually I'm sure a more accurate statement would be that thousands of MA dwellers adhere to the mod's rules for sake of being part of the MA elite. Not because they necessarily agree with their rules. They know disagreement means expulsion.

That day will never come, because you're blind to their doctrine; you're already indoctrinated.
----
Lit.
Brütal Legend

Posts: 3784

Age: 27
From: USA

  03.01.2013 at 18:51
Written by Metalandy92 on 03.01.2013 at 12:52

They are fucking terrible and the maggots(faggots) is annoying kids.They are shit and they sucks dick live.
Paul Gray sucked dick at bass
I actually find it offensive that Corey Taylor is interviewed in several Thrash Metal documentaries.They are not Thrash and they are nothing compared to greats like Megadeth and Slayer.

I find it offensive that you actually call yourself a metal fan and you don't even like Slipknot!
GTFO, poseur.
----
REPUBLICAN CAR!
!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 15420

Age: 30
From: UK

  03.01.2013 at 19:57
Written by Guest on 03.01.2013 at 19:41


i don't even know why im bothering to tell you this.
1. I am not a registered ma user
2.metalstorm is the ONLY online community/social media i am part of (and i enjoy being part of this site)


Then how the flying hell do you know what you have purported to know about the MA higher ups?! If this is the only site you frequent then why do you have such high opinion of Metal Archives and can be sure they're as knowledgeable as they say they are?

Quote:

3. Metal elitism is something very controversial, your above comment on rhapsody of fire can be interpreted as elitism.(lets not even argue on that boring subject of elitism)


I'm relatively outspoken about power metal because I think it's poppy, unoriginal crap, but I still think it's metal. Also, I think my "elitism" about power metal is somewhat offset by how I feel about nu metal and much metalcore (check my ratings if you wish). In fact I'm sure many people on this site would attest to how open minded I am. I doubt you'll meet many metallers who enjoy the harshest, most dissonant metal that alienates 99% of regular metallers but also happy to admit that I like and enjoy the likes of Korn, Slipknot, Creed etc.

Quote:

4. On users adhering to rules of mods, thats boring vague argument that can apply on many other sites upon close examination.

I would say there's no other site as dictatorial as MA. If you compare that to the open minded and (relatively) reasonable stances on this site I'm sure you would agree with me.
Quote:

5. I will not be tempted to quote you again, i better go to your UK doom list and find some good music.

That's fine. I've already tried my best to enlighten you with actual examples and songs as to how MA is hypocritical regarding its own rules and you've ignored said examples so I doubt we're going to find much common ground.
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Slayer666

Posts: 2379

Age: 20
From: Serbia

  03.01.2013 at 20:58
Written by Guest on 03.01.2013 at 20:51

same can be applied to ma, their elitism over nu and core is somehow offset by acceptance of power metal..so yeah


Uh, no... Joe said he hates power metal, yet still accepts is as metal. The heads of MA hate Nu-metal and for the most part don't accept it as a legitimate subgenre of metal, which it clearly is. Basically, they don't like it = not metal. That's the finest example of hypocrisy, right there.

I hope you can finally wrap your head around this easy-to-understand (but not for you, apparently) distinction and this argument can stop taking up space on a Slipknot thread.
Slayer666

Posts: 2379

Age: 20
From: Serbia

  03.01.2013 at 21:06
Written by Guest on 03.01.2013 at 21:04

i dig the hypocrisy


You obviously do, otherwise you wouldn't be such a MA fanboy.
!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 15420

Age: 30
From: UK

  03.01.2013 at 21:30
Written by Guest on 03.01.2013 at 20:51

you don't have to be registered on ma to know why bands are rejected, there is a thread on that. I trust them cause of the thread and explanations offered and also since i'm of the idea that someone should be responsible to define what metal is and what its not, since i myself only care about the sub-genre i'm interested in and i don't have time for all that work and subjecting my ears to various noise to determine if they are metal.


Translation: I can't be bothered to think for myself and learn the facts, so I'll put my faith in the most perceived popular source of metal without regard to logic and scholarly understanding. Message understood. I mean, man, they have a whole thread on their rules?! They must truly be the sages of metal then. Clearly metal had no boundries and was just a floating mass of confusion before 2002. Thank the Lord for these insightful individuals who brought metal together in harmony.


Quote:
So i admire those folks and infact when i start earning i will contribute some money to those guys to continue with the good work.

Cool. I'll be sure to hand over all my hard earned cash to the Scientology cult religion when I join up, too.

Quote:

same can be applied to ma, their elitism over nu and core is somehow offset by acceptance of power metal..so yeah

S666 just answered this little misinterpretation.
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thundercunt
Account deleted
  03.01.2013 at 21:51
Man a brotha can even go on this site witout seein all dis arguin about some poplar band
here be an idea for you kid, you don have ta like these here cats
but they be metal no matter your opinion
just cuz some otha site decide they don like em because they poplar don mean they ain metal, ya dig
brotha i don even like dese cats, i think they music suck
but it sucky metal, no two way about it
same wit all that power metal you like dat all these otha brothas talkin bout
Angelic Storm
Melodious

Posts: 6656
From: UK

  03.01.2013 at 22:26
Sheesh, just when I thought it wasn't possible for this thread to descend any further...
FinnishSammich

Posts: 144

Age: 18
From: Finland

  04.01.2013 at 01:50
Nice commentwar there, guys

Written by Metalandy92 on 03.01.2013 at 12:52

They are fucking terrible and the maggots(faggots) is annoying kids.


Yeah, you totally seem like a chill guy and not annoying at all.



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