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Ellrohir
Heaven Knight

Posts: 8145

Age: 26
From: Czech Republic

  31.12.2009 at 18:47
Disclaimer: I DONT follow any "NS" ideas. I DONT support any actions of violence based on racial or other discrimination. But I DO support freedom of speech and thinking. Absolute freedom, even when those speeches and thinking are supporting NS... Words are not actions and presuming "action may result from words" is denial of one of the very basic human rights and one of the pillar of democratic society - the presumption of innocence... Therefore I wont be quiet, when I feel this freedom is being broken...


Prelude: Earlier this year, one really terrible and sad story happened in Czech republic. During the night, someone attacked a house inhabited by gypsy family with frangible grenades. House was burnt to the ground, several family members were injured. Most serious was the injuries of just 2 years old girl - she suffered burns on 80% of her body. It is some kind of miracle, she survived, though she will have consequences for lifetime. Everyone in the country knows her story, there were gatherings for her and for the family etc. Couple of those "extreme right" youths was accused from the attack, now they are waiting for court. Thats the background facts for the story that occurred yesterday.

Act One: There are some "extreme right" dickheads (i really dont feel any personal sympathy to these people) who are talking on their private discussion forum. The discussion is about Natálka (girl from our story). Some wish her death, some are proposing Christmas "nice" presents for her - can of killing gas, benzine and matches... As I said - dickheads... BUT - private discussion, private forum, private ideas...

Act Two: Czech "anti fascist" organization Antifa posting a story on their page. Story about those "evil Nazies" and about their discussion. Later on, all major media in country are taking this story and informing whole country about "enemies of society". Now for the thing, that caused my reaction - personal data of involved discussing people were gathered by this Antifa and made public. So no we know names, photos, places where those people live...

And now we are at the point. In fact is are couple of points:

1) Where the hell did Antfia get those personal data? They are nothing but a public organization. Not talking about the fact, they are "extreme left" and they are quite militant, never hesitating to use force against "forces of extreme right". (One action from their repertoire - gig of Nokturnal Mortum Kroda (edit: my bad...) somewhere at Slovakia this year. Band of brave "antifascist" came and destroyed the band van...). It is often ciphered out, that they are secretly connected with BIS, our intelligence. Now it seems those rumors are proved (or tell me how else you get names, photos, homes from internet discussion?)

2) Who the hell they are, that they dare to made personal data of anyone public? Not even our State Police can do this, unless the search for criminal is proclaimed or the suspect is held and charges are raised up. If they have suspicion about breaking the laws (this stupid law about spreading racial hatred - by WORDS), they should go to the Police and Police should act. This is how democratic society work...
I dont remember I voted for them to became "guardians" of my freedom. Hell, i dont remember anyone voted for them. They are self-invited saviors, but somewhere they gathered unbelievable privileges... People simply hate NS so much, that they will give up everything to be "protected"...

3) Should I be afraid of what I write/say IN PRIVATE? Be afraid AGAIN, like in previous era of Commies? Should I consider every word I write down, looking over my shoulder all the time, while I know, that yesterday my name and photo should be in news, because I said something, that is "wrong"?
One of those guys, whose names were made public yesterday, is also a member of "Czech Black Metal Forum". So am I. For my love for black metal, I will be connected with him. And some "secret agent of public safety" from Antifa probably already know I am posting to CBMF and is gathering inappropriate posts by me like this one - because even this is considered to be "Nazi support" by gentlemen from Antifa. In fact every black metal band is NS by them and therefore every BM listener is NS too. And majority of uninitiated people are down with that...


Thanks for reading and also commenting when you want to. My basic idea is "Nothing is illegal to SAY, no matter how bad it sounds." And I feel I should soon became criminal because of having this idea... Thats pisses me off actually. And it scares me too...
----
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings
Become dust in the wake of the hymn
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall
No more than a breath on the wind


Ernis
狼獾

Posts: 6718

Age: 26
From: Estonia

  31.12.2009 at 20:12
Written by Ellrohir on 31.12.2009 at 18:47

Act One: There are some "extreme right" dickheads (i really dont feel any personal sympathy to these people) who are talking on their private discussion forum. The discussion is about Natálka (girl from our story). Some wish her death, some are proposing Christmas "nice" presents for her - can of killing gas, benzine and matches... As I said - dickheads... BUT - private discussion, private forum, private ideas...

Thanks for reading and also commenting when you want to. My basic idea is "Nothing is illegal to SAY, no matter how bad it sounds." And I feel I should soon became criminal because of having this idea... Thats pisses me off actually. And it scares me too...


What the nazis did was awful...

What they wrote in the forum is awful...

Wishing death for someone is something hideous and YES, I support that censorship exist over people who do such things... YES, people who wish evil for others in their mind and who express it either in word/text/act must not be allowed to do that!

I've read from the papers bout cases of murders where the killers have POSTED their plans on the internet previously.... if it's taken as something "light" then a lot of bad will be committed. This has happened...

Attitude "It's just their thoughts...they have the right to think like that..." amazes me... It's so thick... So if someone writes bout the will to fuck 5 year old girls in the ass in a KIDS' forum, this has to be tolerated and allowed?

YES! A BIG YES for CENSORSHIP from my part.

Thanks.

PS: I do not support the censorship such as in Iran but that's another case....
----
Go ahead, make my day...
Ellrohir
Heaven Knight

Posts: 8145

Age: 26
From: Czech Republic

  31.12.2009 at 20:47
There we are again about the "presumption of innocence"...this is not Minority Report - there is no way how you can see into future and presume, that if someone writes something, he is about to do it...yes, he can...but who is a prophet?

and especially what is my problem - some Antifa is certainly not this prophet...State Police maybe...but certainly not private and evenmore "balancing on the edge of criminality" organization...


Written by Ernis on 31.12.2009 at 20:12

if someone writes bout the will to fuck 5 year old girls in the ass in a KIDS' forum, this has to be tolerated and allowed?


"in someones forum"...they havent written their thoughts into any "gypsy forum"...they had their own private chat, which was suddenly made public, because "it will help the society"...screw this

about pedophiles itself - unless they harm real children, it is their right to think about what they want or say what they want...certainly not on some "kids forum", but there are laws about spreading pornographic materials among children which should be used here to punish guy who would try something like that...but so far there is no law about what you can say or not say in private and i hope there never will be any...
----
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings
Become dust in the wake of the hymn
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall
No more than a breath on the wind


Fhuesc

Posts: 1328

Age: 34
From: Mexico

  01.01.2010 at 00:53
Antifa is not an organization [k]per se[/k], it's a group of groups that have left or humanitarian ideology. I agree with Hobbit, in a world as fucked as we live, censorship, specially towards right ideology it's necessary, because of where it might lead. The "free" world that you so impassioned defend, only exists in paper or dreams.
----
Hasta la victoria, siempre!
Until victory, always!
Ellrohir
Heaven Knight

Posts: 8145

Age: 26
From: Czech Republic

  01.01.2010 at 01:02
In our country "Antifa.cz" is presenting themselves to be one organization...

and about "necessary censorship" - who decides what is "good" and what is "bad"? for example i find your tends to communism offending me and my vision of world...someone even called into arms in "Communism" thread...but you still can present your opinions freely and noone or only few is bashing you for that...
----
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings
Become dust in the wake of the hymn
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall
No more than a breath on the wind


Ernis
狼獾

Posts: 6718

Age: 26
From: Estonia

  01.01.2010 at 01:21
Ultra liberalism and "freedom" will eventually lead to calamity... no matter what domain is in question when there is "unlimited freedom" then part of people will use it to their sick advantage and the rest of the people will be condemned to misery... This will be the price of this kind of freedom...

If someone beats a 5-year old girl to death in front of her tortured parents (for sure the child is killed first to ensure maximum pain to the parents) just because her parents were IMMIGRANT WORKERS.... and when this person and the ones who think like him justify themselves and proclaim proudly that "We must kill this trash, starting with the kids!" Then saying "Oh...well... you can think and say this but you better not do this, it ain't nice!" is something I personally, and lots of others will never support...

As my roommate once said...people who wish death to others...who find pleasure in such awful things...they cause pain to everyone and make us personally ashamed when they live in the same country and come from the same culture we do...
Because of these people we'd gladly say YES to death penalty! We'd say YES to torturous death penalty under PUBLIC eyes... if this could stop the evil that is catching and turning people into monsters then YES, we'd be glad to support it... it wouldn't erase the pain already caused but we must not let ourselves be spat on by them...

I visit the internet comment pages from time to time and I've always felt pain, anger and helplessness reading the hateful shite written there...

You can hurt others and commit a sing not just by an act, spoken words, written text but also by THOUGHT... and if someone wishes harm to others then even in one's heart this is something sad and horrid...

What will you do then? Say that... "Ok, it's ok to think: "I hate X, I wish death to him." it's ok to say/write: "I hate X, I wish death to him." So where is the border then? Actual killing is taboo? Or will one day the "freedom" reach that far that the "freedom" to kill/hurt/torture others will also be tolerated?

I've heard lot bout the after-war era...when people had seen so much horror and pain and betrayal around them...when their world was crushed to pieces...and they were forced to live under oppression...but they knew to stick together and support each other... they knew how to help others and be sincere...

not now...now the life is "nice and free" and people are free to hate each other and do whatever they please just for their own pleasure.... bet it'll be like that until the next catastrophe (hope we will be spared...)

Actually I'm afraid the course people are taking will eventually lead to catastrophies one way or another...
----
Go ahead, make my day...
Fhuesc

Posts: 1328

Age: 34
From: Mexico

  01.01.2010 at 01:22
True, we dont deny the use of violence, but it's purpose is a more just society (you may not see it that way, but here is not the thread to discuss it), violence just for the violence or to plunge humanity (and the all the living beings) into more chaos and injustice should be censored.
----
Hasta la victoria, siempre!
Until victory, always!
Ellrohir
Heaven Knight

Posts: 8145

Age: 26
From: Czech Republic

  01.01.2010 at 01:32
2Fhuesc: LMAO!!!! yes to violence for the "greater good"!!! i dont believe i am really reading it...


2Hobbit: except the thing of capital punishment i full agree with you, that when someone commits crime, he deserves punishment (only for me it is long term in prison, not death)...but i am not talking about this...i am talking about WORDS, not actions...

i know a guy, who runs czech Nightwish fan web and forum...he is so much against NS, possibly way more than me...he even refuses to listen to Burzum because of Vargs ideas - he says that he cannot listen to and enjoy the music, about which he knows, who is behind it...nevertheless, he says, that even Nazies should be allowed to speak up their minds in public, because he helds freedom of speech above all...so? why it is so, hm? whatcha think?
----
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings
Become dust in the wake of the hymn
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall
No more than a breath on the wind


Fhuesc

Posts: 1328

Age: 34
From: Mexico

  01.01.2010 at 01:44
This whole idea of absolute freedom it's just a crappy, but really effective, ideology of the capitalism, that's why im not surprise that you can't understand what it really stands for.

P.S. im not insulting you, i don't have anything personal against you.
P.S.2. Yes, you read that, and the worst part, is that it's true liked it or not.
----
Hasta la victoria, siempre!
Until victory, always!
Ellrohir
Heaven Knight

Posts: 8145

Age: 26
From: Czech Republic

  01.01.2010 at 02:49
Violence is violence, man...and evil is evil...

yes, you can do many bad things for "improving the society" and it can work well in the end (as Machiavelli said...), but can you look into the mirror afterward? me couldn't...

this is for example reason why i hate ending of Watchmen...superheroes simply cannot wipe out entire city, even when it stopped nuclear war, which would possibly destroy whole mankind...
----
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings
Become dust in the wake of the hymn
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall
No more than a breath on the wind


Valentin B
Iconoclast

Posts: 10009

Age: 24
From: Belgium

  01.01.2010 at 19:55
This is quite the tricky subject, and i believe moderate is the keyword. you can't just post personal details of persons because they thought something bad about some gypsy girl.

sure, that's the first step, fantasizing about it, but who's to say they're actually gonna do it? in 1999 there were millions of children who were social outcasts at their elementary school, possibly bullied by the "tough guys" in their class, myself included, who fantasized about making their tormentors suffer, myself included. did i do it? hell no, and when i retaliated it was certainly not to the extent of what my thoughts wandered to. do i deserve to be put to pain because i thought about entering the class with a bazooka and making the asshole in the back of the class lick my shoes, but only punched him in the eye in the end?

ANGER is very powerful food for the mind, you can have extremely violent fucked-up fantasies, i'm sure i would have posted some kind of venting on the internet if i was in the same situation now, but is that enough to make me commit horrible acts? remember i gave the example of the year 1999, well, in 1999 out of all those millions of kids who were social outcasts and probably had violent thoughts about their bullies/ "perfect" peers, only 2 decided to actually act on their thoughts at Columbine High School, killing 13 people and then each other. do a million kids deserve to do community work/whatever and be served with a "thou shalt not think of acts like that" daily preaching? just because it "might" include 2 of them who are actually murderous maniacs?

same with metal fans... there's an enormous amount of people posting on the internet about how the pope deserves to die, and how churches should be burnt and then sacrifice 13 virgins in a pentagram made of candles at midnight on the winter solstice. but who the hell actually did that? Varg and the guys from Mayhem claim they burned down some churches, Gaahl tortured a gay man(or something like that), 3 Slayer fans abducted and killed one of the popular girls at their high school, so that makes 8 or so people from a total of at least 5 million worldwide who listen to extreme forms of metal, most of which deals with some kind of violent acts(though i sure hope you didn't talk about artistic violence, Viggo, even though that would easily fit in your censorship ideas)

and then what about paranoid secretive types, who don't post messages about their violent fantasies and stuff like that? my bottom line is, you can't control thoughts, it's impossible, and even if you could, you can't just sift through everyone's minds and declare everyone either "good" or "bad" for society. by all means, torture and rape the bastards with a titanium spork for all i care, but ONLY TO THOSE who actually do horrible stuff, just talking about it simply ain't enough.
----
Sing me a song, you're a singer
Do me a wrong, you're a bringer of evil.
Valentin B
Iconoclast

Posts: 10009

Age: 24
From: Belgium

  11.04.2010 at 22:53
I find it highly ironic that Antifa fights fascism while resorting to methods reminiscing of.. well.. you guessed it.. fascism.

remember what some guy once said: any society which sacrifices a little freedom in exchange for a little security will deserve none and lose both.
----
Sing me a song, you're a singer
Do me a wrong, you're a bringer of evil.
Ellrohir
Heaven Knight

Posts: 8145

Age: 26
From: Czech Republic

  11.04.2010 at 23:41
I'd bet that 90% of AFA members dont even know what they are fighting against...important for them is they are fighting
----
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings
Become dust in the wake of the hymn
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall
No more than a breath on the wind


Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37750

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  11.04.2010 at 23:57
Written by Ellrohir on 11.04.2010 at 23:41

I'd bet that 90% of AFA members dont even know what they are fighting against...important for them is they are fighting


I hate antifa, they are same like fa, and its more like football hools who need fight , antifa use skins, punks and anarchists simply to literaly rioting , they even dont know what is antifa
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Ellrohir
Heaven Knight

Posts: 8145

Age: 26
From: Czech Republic

  12.04.2010 at 09:40
Unfortunately in our country authorities decided, that they are "less evil" how "right extremists", which (obviously, dont you think? :?) means they are "good"...so they are nearly being officially supported...
----
The bones of beasts and the bones of kings
Become dust in the wake of the hymn
Mighty kingdoms rise, but they all will fall
No more than a breath on the wind


Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37750

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  12.04.2010 at 09:51
Written by Ellrohir on 12.04.2010 at 09:40

Unfortunately in our country authorities decided, that they are "less evil" how "right extremists", which (obviously, dont you think? :?) means they are "good"...so they are nearly being officially supported...


officals are always good no metter what they do, Fidel Castro is good to even whole cuba suffer, many say Stalin is hero, many say dictaor is good even his soledrs killed millions in swomp ....
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing

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