Written by Dane Train on 20.07.2008 at 23:11

Then there is also the home church movement in the USA, which is estimated to become the major form of spiritual community within the next decade. If anything Christianity has reached one of its strongest moments ever, and is only growing, not shrinking.

Quantity > quality, the modern way, ain't it?

Just discovered this today - a news story about a metal band from Italy whose lead singer is a Catholic monk.

I apologize if I'm a little off-topic with this one, but I figured that it would hold the most interest for folks posting in this discussion.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5403388

Written by Conservationist on 21.07.2008 at 19:11

Quantity > quality, the modern way, ain't it?

Quite the contrary. Instead of trying to put words in my mouth, perhaps you should look at the matter in hand more closely, or just not comment. The house church movement in America is all about quality, which is why it is the house church movement and not the mega-church movement. The house churches actually go all the way back to the beginning of Christianity. As the early church was growing, it was an illegal act for them to be assembling, so they hid out in house and catacombs to conduct worship and meetings.

Due to the fact that space was limited, the number of people at each gathering was small (anywhere from 6 to 30, typically) but allowed for a more intimate setting. These early Christians depended upon each other heavily for daily survival, both in a physical and spiritual sense. As more and more people began hearing the Gospel and were amazed by the countless selfless acts of these followers of Jesus, the number of followers grew. Throughout the history of Christianity the Church has become very large strayed away from the original meaning. This in turn leads many to break down the structure and restart from the small groups. Right now in North America we are seeing this with Roman Catholics, Protestants and Evangelicals.

As for China, it is still very dangerous to be a Christian due to the Communist government, so much like the early Christians in Rome; these Chinese Christians are hiding in house to conduct their worship and meetings. And much like the early Church, the Gospel is spreading and millions are coming to know Christ. The deep seeded spirituality in China is something that has not been seen for a while, and it is growing all the time.

If this growth were about quality, then we would see the mainline denominational churches thriving around the world, when in fact we see the opposite. It is the small, personal churches that are thriving with amazing qualities to them.

Written by HugeTheConqeror on 21.07.2008 at 19:27

Just discovered this today - a news story about a metal band from Italy whose lead singer is a Catholic monk.

I apologize if I'm a little off-topic with this one, but I figured that it would hold the most interest for folks posting in this discussion.

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=5403388

Yeah, a friend of mine sent me an article about that on Facebook yesterday. I think it is totally appropriate to post it here. I actually posted it in another thread. I am going to try and buy the albums this week. What did you think of it?

Written by Dane Train on 22.07.2008 at 00:47
If this growth were about quality, then we would see the mainline denominational churches thriving around the world, when in fact we see the opposite. It is the small, personal churches that are thriving with amazing qualities to them.

I've seen you talk about this before, just wondering what sort of evidence it is based on. Got any stats?

Written by Dane Train on 22.07.2008 at 00:47

Quite the contrary. Instead of trying to put words in my mouth, perhaps you should look at the matter in hand more closely, or just not comment. The house church movement in America is all about quality, which is why it is the house church movement and not the mega-church movement. The house churches actually go all the way back to the beginning of Christianity. As the early church was growing, it was an illegal act for them to be assembling, so they hid out in house and catacombs to conduct worship and meetings.

You talked about more of them, not their being of higher quality.

Points to me.

Written by totaliteraliter on 22.07.2008 at 01:37

I've seen you talk about this before, just wondering what sort of evidence it is based on. Got any stats?

What sort of stats are you looking for? This is an area that is not highly documented because the whole concept of it is to be out of the spot light. I know there are several books that talk about this. John Burke and Tony Campolo both have writen material about the numbers. I'll see what I can dig up for you.

Written by Conservationist on 22.07.2008 at 20:17

You talked about more of them, not their being of higher quality.

Actually, in the following paragraph's I did talk a little bit about the quality of them. Maybe it was not enough detail for you, and if so, then I apologize. If you would like more information of the quality of said house churches, please let me know, because this is an area where I am highly focused and do a vast majority of my research on.

I would like to hear more on any Christian movement which is moving toward a higher quality interpretation of the religion, like Meister Eckhart, Arthur Schopenhauer or Ralph Waldo Emerson.

Anything else is the same old crap, whether they hold it in a small building or a sports stadium.

http://www.lakewood.cc/

^^ like these guys

They meet here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Summit_(Houston)

^^ which is where I went to many metal shows, and there were ALWAYS christians out front with fliers tell us we were going to hell.

Yeah, I know that place. Joel Olsteen pastors there. I am not really found of him.

If you want a really good book about bringing about higher quality and breaking away from "religion", I highly recommend No Perfect People Allowed. This book was probably the most influential in shaping my view of ministry. Is it a perfect book? Of coerce not, but it is really good. Everyone I have ever given a copy to was really challenged by what Burke wrote. There are many more I can recommend as well, but I think this is a fantastic one to start with.

Written by Dane Train on 23.07.2008 at 17:05

If you want a really good book about bringing about higher quality and breaking away from "religion", I highly recommend No Perfect People Allowed. This book was probably the most influential in shaping my view of ministry. Is it a perfect book? Of coerce not, but it is really good. Everyone I have ever given a copy to was really challenged by what Burke wrote. There are many more I can recommend as well, but I think this is a fantastic one to start with.

Interesting. Here's another:

The Man From Whom God Hid Nothing

...about a personal hero. I will never be a Christian, but I am a Hindu who accepts Pagan Christians.

Written by Hyvaarin on 20.07.2008 at 10:51

Written by Guest on 19.07.2008 at 01:24

and lastly, but not least....
Black Sabbath

I don't think that mentioning Christian ideas and using Christian imagery equates to being a "Christian band" or having "Christian lyrics".

I agree with you that using Christian imagery doesn't in itself equate with being a Christian band. However, whenever Black Sabbath's lyrics refer to religion, God, the Devil, it's never Evil trampling over God. Often the character in the lyrics is lamenting being cursed, being away from God. Such themes are also typical of a lot Doom Metal. There's even 'War Pigs' which must be one of the first Metal anti-war anthems. Of course there are also drug-advocating songs like 'Sweat Leaf' and 'Snowblind' which might not conform to Christian ideals!javascript:addtext('message_body', ':dstupid:')
javascript:addtext('message_body', ':dstupid:')

Written by Dane Train on 23.07.2008 at 17:05

Yeah, I know that place. Joel Olsteen pastors there. I am not really found of him.

also, to get back on topic, you might want to check out the song Brandon Lee by The 69 Eyes: http://darklyrics.com/lyrics/the69eyes/blessedbe.html#4

you can see it as a song about Brandon Lee himself, about Fate or about just simply life in general, it's got such touching lyrics, really it's a looong time since i've been moved so deeply by a song. such a sad story, Lee's... it's an absolute tragedy, that guy could have surpassed his father, but they both died so early.

"Victims aren't we all?"<-priceless.

Written by Guest on 24.07.2008 at 06:17

Of course there are also drug-advocating songs like 'Sweat Leaf' and 'Snowblind' which might not conform to Christian ideals!

"And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing
seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree,
in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it
shall be for meat."

You can't argue with the bible!

Have you ever heard of Kalmah's "Man of the King" from the album called The Black Waltz? Great song. So cool. There are some songs from the latest album as well like "Wings of Blackening" or "Ready For Salvation."

Written by Dane Train on 22.07.2008 at 22:18

Written by totaliteraliter on 22.07.2008 at 01:37

I've seen you talk about this before, just wondering what sort of evidence it is based on. Got any stats?

What sort of stats are you looking for? This is an area that is not highly documented because the whole concept of it is to be out of the spot light. I know there are several books that talk about this. John Burke and Tony Campolo both have writen material about the numbers. I'll see what I can dig up for you.

Any stats, since the demographics I'm familiar with don't necessarily coincide with what you are saying. The 2008 Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches, for example, reports growth among Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses among others. What studies are available regarding the movement you speak of?

Written by K✞ulu on 24.07.2008 at 20:30

Have you ever heard of Kalmah's "Man of the King" from the album called The Black Waltz? Great song. So cool. There are some songs from the latest album as well like "Wings of Blackening" or "Ready For Salvation."

Sorry for the very, very late reply to your post. I have not hear it but I am going to see if I can find it right now.

Agathothodion. Depressive voice. One man band. Hear the track 'Guds Elskede'.

Theocracy - Bethlehem



awesome song

Illuminandi - Song Of Creation
The Ascendicate - Burden
The entire self titled album by Saviour Machine
Grave Declaration - Fall Down
Impending Doom - My Light Unseen
Kamelot - Up Through The Ashes, Nothing Ever Dies, Sacrimony
MyChildren MyBride - Crimson Grim
Phinehas - Pattern In Pain, The Blessing and The Curse, Dyson Sphere, From A Burning Sun, The Deepest Of Graves, I Am The Lion, Crowns

Written by John Barleycorn on 03.08.2006 at 02:11

Some songs:

Place of Skulls - Silver Cord Breaks; With Vision
Tool - Wings for Marie (Pt 1); 10,000 days (Wings Pt 2); Lateralis
Opeth - Atonement
Sleep - Jerusalem (or Dopesmoker, the lyrics really arent very different in those songs/albums)

I'd go with Parabola rather than Lateralis.