‹‹ Back to the General metal forum Pages: 1 [2]
Posts: 44  
Users visited: 60  
Search this topic:  


The original post

Posted by Luneth on 17.10.2010 at 19:27
I was wondering, qhy are there no categories for epic metal bands? Are they not popular enough or are there too few? I know Dragonland are definetely an Epic [Synphonic] band so even more refined! Why are there so few Epic metal bands?! Dystera are another reat band, no coverage of them here at all!



Page 2 of 2

Culty

Posts: 168

Age: 20
From: USA

  20.10.2010 at 02:55
Yeah haha. Was surprised nobody else pointed it out!
----
Gfnttlr
RavenKing

Posts: 1941
From: Canada

  20.10.2010 at 14:24
Written by Ozman on 19.10.2010 at 14:33

@RavenKing alhough something is cheesy as hell it can still be epic.
Just like in poetry. Some epic poems are cheesy as fuck but still epic because of its form.


My opinion differs. To consider something epic, I must be able to take it seriously (well, as much as music can be taken seriously). Something I find impossible if it's too cheesy.
If it's too cheesy, it becomes only pretentious crap trying to be epic and failing, in my mind.
----
They shake your hand and they smile and they buy you a drink
They say we'll be your friends we'll stick with you till the end
But everybody's only looking out for themselves
And you say who can you trust I'll tell you nobody
Ozman
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36707

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  20.10.2010 at 14:29
Written by RavenKing on 20.10.2010 at 14:24

Written by Ozman on 19.10.2010 at 14:33

@RavenKing alhough something is cheesy as hell it can still be epic.
Just like in poetry. Some epic poems are cheesy as fuck but still epic because of its form.


My opinion differs. To consider something epic, I must be able to take it seriously (well, as much as music can be taken seriously). Something I find impossible if it's too cheesy.
If it's too cheesy, it becomes only pretentious crap trying to be epic and failing, in my mind.


Okay, so it seems you, like many a person, do not know the meaning of the word epic.
here it is:

1. noting or pertaining to a long poetic composition, usually centered upon a hero, in which a series of great achievements or events is narrated in elevated style: Homer's Iliad is an epic poem.
2. resembling or suggesting such poetry: an epic novel on the founding of the country.
3. heroic; majestic; impressively great: the epic events of the war.
4. of unusually great size or extent: a crime wave of epic proportions.

So it can be cheesy still.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Luneth

Posts: 952

Age: 22
From: UK

  20.10.2010 at 14:41
Written by Ozman on 20.10.2010 at 14:29

Written by RavenKing on 20.10.2010 at 14:24

Written by Ozman on 19.10.2010 at 14:33

@RavenKing alhough something is cheesy as hell it can still be epic.
Just like in poetry. Some epic poems are cheesy as fuck but still epic because of its form.


My opinion differs. To consider something epic, I must be able to take it seriously (well, as much as music can be taken seriously). Something I find impossible if it's too cheesy.
If it's too cheesy, it becomes only pretentious crap trying to be epic and failing, in my mind.


Okay, so it seems you, like many a person, do not know the meaning of the word epic.
here it is:

1. noting or pertaining to a long poetic composition, usually centered upon a hero, in which a series of great achievements or events is narrated in elevated style: Homer's Iliad is an epic poem.
2. resembling or suggesting such poetry: an epic novel on the founding of the country.
3. heroic; majestic; impressively great: the epic events of the war.
4. of unusually great size or extent: a crime wave of epic proportions.

So it can be cheesy still.


'Heroic' and 'Majestic'. Hmm. Now I wonder what bands in this 'cheesy flowermetal' genre could sing about majestic heroes.
----
Evil? I am not Malevolent, I simply am!
Apocalypse, X-Men
Gorgon

Posts: 42

Age: 37
From: Belgium

  20.10.2010 at 15:12
Epic is a modifier, referring to the theme, not the style, so I guess there could be Epic Jazz if anyone would be inclined to play that As a theme it is objective, see dictionary acceptions.

If you are using "Epic" as an adjective interchangeable with "Amazing", well then indeed it is subjective.

And if you are using "Epic" to describe a certain sound in the music, well, this is going to get confusing, because we are not going to agree, and it may mean different things when combined with different genres.

I don't see how it can ever work on its own as a genre, which is supposed to help you know what the fuck is this CD gonna sound like. As a modifier it may work (as in epic black metal), but you do need more info.
Luneth

Posts: 952

Age: 22
From: UK

  20.10.2010 at 16:08
Written by Gorgon on 20.10.2010 at 15:12

Epic is a modifier, referring to the theme, not the style, so I guess there could be Epic Jazz if anyone would be inclined to play that As a theme it is objective, see dictionary acceptions.

If you are using "Epic" as an adjective interchangeable with "Amazing", well then indeed it is subjective.

And if you are using "Epic" to describe a certain sound in the music, well, this is going to get confusing, because we are not going to agree, and it may mean different things when combined with different genres.

I don't see how it can ever work on its own as a genre, which is supposed to help you know what the fuck is this CD gonna sound like. As a modifier it may work (as in epic black metal), but you do need more info.


Bold: That's what I've been saying it ISN'T. 'Epic' can work as a genre on it's own, why not? All a genre needs to be a genre is a criteria that sets it apart from another genre, right? Well that said Epic metal should be able to set some criteria, how else would we be able to use it as a modifier if there was no criteria? It's not like 'Epic Symphonic Metal' is exactly the same as 'Symphonic Metal' is it? What is it about the 'epic' modifier [anyone who quotes that should jump off a bridge >_>] that sets it apart from the 'main genre'.

Using Power Metal as an example, it is just a sub division of Heavy Metal...and Symphonic Power is just a sub genre of Symphonic metal...now why can't Epic Symphonic Power be a sub sub division of Symphonic metal and sub division of Symphonic Power?
----
Evil? I am not Malevolent, I simply am!
Apocalypse, X-Men
Gorgon

Posts: 42

Age: 37
From: Belgium

  20.10.2010 at 16:34
Written by Luneth on 20.10.2010 at 16:08

Bold: That's what I've been saying it ISN'T. 'Epic' can work as a genre on it's own, why not? All a genre needs to be a genre is a criteria that sets it apart from another genre, right? Well that said Epic metal should be able to set some criteria, how else would we be able to use it as a modifier if there was no criteria? It's not like 'Epic Symphonic Metal' is exactly the same as 'Symphonic Metal' is it? What is it about the 'epic' modifier [anyone who quotes that should jump off a bridge >_>] that sets it apart from the 'main genre'.

Using Power Metal as an example, it is just a sub division of Heavy Metal...and Symphonic Power is just a sub genre of Symphonic metal...now why can't Epic Symphonic Power be a sub sub division of Symphonic metal and sub division of Symphonic Power?


Where did I say there was no criteria? What about this criteria, which I (and others) have already mentioned: the actual dictionary meaning of the word epic, which is not up for discussion, and would refer to the lyrical content.

And you don't understand what I mean with modifier, when what you are saying about subdivisions is exactly the same. What a lot of people are not agreeing about is what is it that epic means, what modifier does it add to the subdivision.

What I say can't work as a genre on it own is "Epic Metal", because that is just way too vague.

I also don't think epic=amazing, but you can't deny a lot of people use it that way.
Luneth

Posts: 952

Age: 22
From: UK

  20.10.2010 at 16:47
Written by Gorgon on 20.10.2010 at 16:34

Written by Luneth on 20.10.2010 at 16:08

Bold: That's what I've been saying it ISN'T. 'Epic' can work as a genre on it's own, why not? All a genre needs to be a genre is a criteria that sets it apart from another genre, right? Well that said Epic metal should be able to set some criteria, how else would we be able to use it as a modifier if there was no criteria? It's not like 'Epic Symphonic Metal' is exactly the same as 'Symphonic Metal' is it? What is it about the 'epic' modifier [anyone who quotes that should jump off a bridge >_>] that sets it apart from the 'main genre'.

Using Power Metal as an example, it is just a sub division of Heavy Metal...and Symphonic Power is just a sub genre of Symphonic metal...now why can't Epic Symphonic Power be a sub sub division of Symphonic metal and sub division of Symphonic Power?


Where did I say there was no criteria? What about this criteria, which I (and others) have already mentioned: the actual dictionary meaning of the word epic, which is not up for discussion, and would refer to the lyrical content.

And you don't understand what I mean with modifier, when what you are saying about subdivisions is exactly the same. What a lot of people are not agreeing about is what is it that epic means, what modifier does it add to the subdivision.

What I say can't work as a genre on it own is "Epic Metal", because that is just way too vague.

I also don't think epic=amazing, but you can't deny a lot of people use it that way.


If we stuck so heavily to dictionary definitions in a musical context we wouldn't get anywhere! What would a dictionary say about Power, Speed, Black or Death in a musical context, eh?

This is the focal point of what I'm saying: if there is a set criteria [in a musical context, not what a dictionary says] there can be no argument about the meaning of the modifier.

Who would argue about what Black Metal consists of in a musical context? You wouldn't get someone confusing it with Power Metal for instance would you? Why? Because there is criteria that defines them, and its got nothing to do with what a dictionary says, because as you can imagine, the dictionary definition of 'Power' and 'Black' are completely irrelavent to music
----
Evil? I am not Malevolent, I simply am!
Apocalypse, X-Men
Gorgon

Posts: 42

Age: 37
From: Belgium

  20.10.2010 at 16:54
Written by Luneth on 20.10.2010 at 16:47

If we stuck so heavily to dictionary definitions in a musical context we wouldn't get anywhere! What would a dictionary say about Power, Speed, Black or Death in a musical context, eh?

This is the focal point of what I'm saying: if there is a set criteria [in a musical context, not what a dictionary says] there can be no argument about the meaning of the modifier.

Who would argue about what Black Metal consists of in a musical context? You wouldn't get someone confusing it with Power Metal for instance would you? Why? Because there is criteria that defines them, and its got nothing to do with what a dictionary says, because as you can imagine, the dictionary definition of 'Power' and 'Black' are completely irrelavent to music


You don't need to go back and change the meaning of a stablished genre. I never suggested that either.

If there is a set criteria. Well, guess what, in the case of epic there is not. That's just too bad

You are saying the same a lot of times, dude.
Luneth

Posts: 952

Age: 22
From: UK

  20.10.2010 at 17:09
Written by Gorgon on 20.10.2010 at 16:54

Written by Luneth on 20.10.2010 at 16:47

If we stuck so heavily to dictionary definitions in a musical context we wouldn't get anywhere! What would a dictionary say about Power, Speed, Black or Death in a musical context, eh?

This is the focal point of what I'm saying: if there is a set criteria [in a musical context, not what a dictionary says] there can be no argument about the meaning of the modifier.

Who would argue about what Black Metal consists of in a musical context? You wouldn't get someone confusing it with Power Metal for instance would you? Why? Because there is criteria that defines them, and its got nothing to do with what a dictionary says, because as you can imagine, the dictionary definition of 'Power' and 'Black' are completely irrelavent to music


You don't need to go back and change the meaning of a stablished genre. I never suggested that either.

If there is a set criteria. Well, guess what, in the case of epic there is not. That's just too bad

You are saying the same a lot of times, dude.


Pssh, what I'm saying makes perfect sense -_-
----
Evil? I am not Malevolent, I simply am!
Apocalypse, X-Men
Culty

Posts: 168

Age: 20
From: USA

  20.10.2010 at 17:21
Ugh, im so confused by this whole conversation. it feels like you guys are talking about pretty much the same thing with different words.
----
Gfnttlr
Gorgon

Posts: 42

Age: 37
From: Belgium

  20.10.2010 at 17:30
Semantics is a bitch, isn't it? lol.
enumaelis

Posts: 264

Age: 31
From: Spain

  21.10.2010 at 01:34
I guess there is no "epic metal" as a genre cause the word "epic", as "majestic", is a feature of the style of a band. So there is epic doom, epic power, epic black...
----
http://enumaelis.blogspot.com/
Kennoth

Posts: 2415

Age: 23
From: Croatia

  21.10.2010 at 03:39
Written by Gorgon on 20.10.2010 at 16:54

If there is a set criteria. Well, guess what, in the case of epic there is not.


And that concludes this entire meaningless thread.
----
*insert something deep and profound*

Advertise on Metal Storm
Pages: 1 [2]


Login or register to post here.



Similar topics

Forum Topic Similarity Started
Musicians corner Epic Metal song by Mr. Moe 3.5 29.06.2013 by moe5512
Promotion and Ads Burning Shadows - Epic US Metal 3 26.02.2013 by NyarlathoTim
Articles Trailer Music - When Metal Meets Epic [Chapter I] 3 11.11.2011 by Milena
Melodic metal forum Virgin Steele - Visions of Eden 3 09.09.2006 by Hellish Star
Promotion and Ads Lord Symphony From Indonesia 3 23.10.2010 by finalfortuner