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Epic Metal?



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Original post

Posted by , 17.10.2010 - 19:27
I was wondering, qhy are there no categories for epic metal bands? Are they not popular enough or are there too few? I know Dragonland are definetely an Epic [Synphonic] band so even more refined! Why are there so few Epic metal bands?! Dystera are another reat band, no coverage of them here at all!
20.10.2010 - 02:55
Culty

Yeah haha. Was surprised nobody else pointed it out!
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20.10.2010 - 14:24
RavenKing

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 19.10.2010 at 14:33

@RavenKing alhough something is cheesy as hell it can still be epic.
Just like in poetry. Some epic poems are cheesy as fuck but still epic because of its form.


My opinion differs. To consider something epic, I must be able to take it seriously (well, as much as music can be taken seriously). Something I find impossible if it's too cheesy.
If it's too cheesy, it becomes only pretentious crap trying to be epic and failing, in my mind.
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20.10.2010 - 14:29
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Written by RavenKing on 20.10.2010 at 14:24

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 19.10.2010 at 14:33

@RavenKing alhough something is cheesy as hell it can still be epic.
Just like in poetry. Some epic poems are cheesy as fuck but still epic because of its form.


My opinion differs. To consider something epic, I must be able to take it seriously (well, as much as music can be taken seriously). Something I find impossible if it's too cheesy.
If it's too cheesy, it becomes only pretentious crap trying to be epic and failing, in my mind.


Okay, so it seems you, like many a person, do not know the meaning of the word epic.
here it is:

1. noting or pertaining to a long poetic composition, usually centered upon a hero, in which a series of great achievements or events is narrated in elevated style: Homer's Iliad is an epic poem.
2. resembling or suggesting such poetry: an epic novel on the founding of the country.
3. heroic; majestic; impressively great: the epic events of the war.
4. of unusually great size or extent: a crime wave of epic proportions.

So it can be cheesy still.
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20.10.2010 - 14:41
Luneth
Account deleted
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 20.10.2010 at 14:29

Written by RavenKing on 20.10.2010 at 14:24

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 19.10.2010 at 14:33

@RavenKing alhough something is cheesy as hell it can still be epic.
Just like in poetry. Some epic poems are cheesy as fuck but still epic because of its form.


My opinion differs. To consider something epic, I must be able to take it seriously (well, as much as music can be taken seriously). Something I find impossible if it's too cheesy.
If it's too cheesy, it becomes only pretentious crap trying to be epic and failing, in my mind.


Okay, so it seems you, like many a person, do not know the meaning of the word epic.
here it is:

1. noting or pertaining to a long poetic composition, usually centered upon a hero, in which a series of great achievements or events is narrated in elevated style: Homer's Iliad is an epic poem.
2. resembling or suggesting such poetry: an epic novel on the founding of the country.
3. heroic; majestic; impressively great: the epic events of the war.
4. of unusually great size or extent: a crime wave of epic proportions.

So it can be cheesy still.


'Heroic' and 'Majestic'. Hmm. Now I wonder what bands in this 'cheesy flowermetal' genre could sing about majestic heroes.
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20.10.2010 - 15:12
Gorgon

Epic is a modifier, referring to the theme, not the style, so I guess there could be Epic Jazz if anyone would be inclined to play that As a theme it is objective, see dictionary acceptions.

If you are using "Epic" as an adjective interchangeable with "Amazing", well then indeed it is subjective.

And if you are using "Epic" to describe a certain sound in the music, well, this is going to get confusing, because we are not going to agree, and it may mean different things when combined with different genres.

I don't see how it can ever work on its own as a genre, which is supposed to help you know what the fuck is this CD gonna sound like. As a modifier it may work (as in epic black metal), but you do need more info.
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20.10.2010 - 16:08
Luneth
Account deleted
Written by Gorgon on 20.10.2010 at 15:12

Epic is a modifier, referring to the theme, not the style, so I guess there could be Epic Jazz if anyone would be inclined to play that As a theme it is objective, see dictionary acceptions.

If you are using "Epic" as an adjective interchangeable with "Amazing", well then indeed it is subjective.

And if you are using "Epic" to describe a certain sound in the music, well, this is going to get confusing, because we are not going to agree, and it may mean different things when combined with different genres.

I don't see how it can ever work on its own as a genre, which is supposed to help you know what the fuck is this CD gonna sound like. As a modifier it may work (as in epic black metal), but you do need more info.


Bold: That's what I've been saying it ISN'T. 'Epic' can work as a genre on it's own, why not? All a genre needs to be a genre is a criteria that sets it apart from another genre, right? Well that said Epic metal should be able to set some criteria, how else would we be able to use it as a modifier if there was no criteria? It's not like 'Epic Symphonic Metal' is exactly the same as 'Symphonic Metal' is it? What is it about the 'epic' modifier [anyone who quotes that should jump off a bridge >_>] that sets it apart from the 'main genre'.

Using Power Metal as an example, it is just a sub division of Heavy Metal...and Symphonic Power is just a sub genre of Symphonic metal...now why can't Epic Symphonic Power be a sub sub division of Symphonic metal and sub division of Symphonic Power?
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20.10.2010 - 16:34
Gorgon

Written by Guest on 20.10.2010 at 16:08

Bold: That's what I've been saying it ISN'T. 'Epic' can work as a genre on it's own, why not? All a genre needs to be a genre is a criteria that sets it apart from another genre, right? Well that said Epic metal should be able to set some criteria, how else would we be able to use it as a modifier if there was no criteria? It's not like 'Epic Symphonic Metal' is exactly the same as 'Symphonic Metal' is it? What is it about the 'epic' modifier [anyone who quotes that should jump off a bridge >_>] that sets it apart from the 'main genre'.

Using Power Metal as an example, it is just a sub division of Heavy Metal...and Symphonic Power is just a sub genre of Symphonic metal...now why can't Epic Symphonic Power be a sub sub division of Symphonic metal and sub division of Symphonic Power?


Where did I say there was no criteria? What about this criteria, which I (and others) have already mentioned: the actual dictionary meaning of the word epic, which is not up for discussion, and would refer to the lyrical content.

And you don't understand what I mean with modifier, when what you are saying about subdivisions is exactly the same. What a lot of people are not agreeing about is what is it that epic means, what modifier does it add to the subdivision.

What I say can't work as a genre on it own is "Epic Metal", because that is just way too vague.

I also don't think epic=amazing, but you can't deny a lot of people use it that way.
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20.10.2010 - 16:47
Luneth
Account deleted
Written by Gorgon on 20.10.2010 at 16:34

Written by Guest on 20.10.2010 at 16:08

Bold: That's what I've been saying it ISN'T. 'Epic' can work as a genre on it's own, why not? All a genre needs to be a genre is a criteria that sets it apart from another genre, right? Well that said Epic metal should be able to set some criteria, how else would we be able to use it as a modifier if there was no criteria? It's not like 'Epic Symphonic Metal' is exactly the same as 'Symphonic Metal' is it? What is it about the 'epic' modifier [anyone who quotes that should jump off a bridge >_>] that sets it apart from the 'main genre'.

Using Power Metal as an example, it is just a sub division of Heavy Metal...and Symphonic Power is just a sub genre of Symphonic metal...now why can't Epic Symphonic Power be a sub sub division of Symphonic metal and sub division of Symphonic Power?


Where did I say there was no criteria? What about this criteria, which I (and others) have already mentioned: the actual dictionary meaning of the word epic, which is not up for discussion, and would refer to the lyrical content.

And you don't understand what I mean with modifier, when what you are saying about subdivisions is exactly the same. What a lot of people are not agreeing about is what is it that epic means, what modifier does it add to the subdivision.

What I say can't work as a genre on it own is "Epic Metal", because that is just way too vague.

I also don't think epic=amazing, but you can't deny a lot of people use it that way.


If we stuck so heavily to dictionary definitions in a musical context we wouldn't get anywhere! What would a dictionary say about Power, Speed, Black or Death in a musical context, eh?

This is the focal point of what I'm saying: if there is a set criteria [in a musical context, not what a dictionary says] there can be no argument about the meaning of the modifier.

Who would argue about what Black Metal consists of in a musical context? You wouldn't get someone confusing it with Power Metal for instance would you? Why? Because there is criteria that defines them, and its got nothing to do with what a dictionary says, because as you can imagine, the dictionary definition of 'Power' and 'Black' are completely irrelavent to music
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20.10.2010 - 16:54
Gorgon

Written by Guest on 20.10.2010 at 16:47

If we stuck so heavily to dictionary definitions in a musical context we wouldn't get anywhere! What would a dictionary say about Power, Speed, Black or Death in a musical context, eh?

This is the focal point of what I'm saying: if there is a set criteria [in a musical context, not what a dictionary says] there can be no argument about the meaning of the modifier.

Who would argue about what Black Metal consists of in a musical context? You wouldn't get someone confusing it with Power Metal for instance would you? Why? Because there is criteria that defines them, and its got nothing to do with what a dictionary says, because as you can imagine, the dictionary definition of 'Power' and 'Black' are completely irrelavent to music


You don't need to go back and change the meaning of a stablished genre. I never suggested that either.

If there is a set criteria. Well, guess what, in the case of epic there is not. That's just too bad

You are saying the same a lot of times, dude.
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20.10.2010 - 17:09
Luneth
Account deleted
Written by Gorgon on 20.10.2010 at 16:54

Written by Guest on 20.10.2010 at 16:47

If we stuck so heavily to dictionary definitions in a musical context we wouldn't get anywhere! What would a dictionary say about Power, Speed, Black or Death in a musical context, eh?

This is the focal point of what I'm saying: if there is a set criteria [in a musical context, not what a dictionary says] there can be no argument about the meaning of the modifier.

Who would argue about what Black Metal consists of in a musical context? You wouldn't get someone confusing it with Power Metal for instance would you? Why? Because there is criteria that defines them, and its got nothing to do with what a dictionary says, because as you can imagine, the dictionary definition of 'Power' and 'Black' are completely irrelavent to music


You don't need to go back and change the meaning of a stablished genre. I never suggested that either.

If there is a set criteria. Well, guess what, in the case of epic there is not. That's just too bad

You are saying the same a lot of times, dude.


Pssh, what I'm saying makes perfect sense -_-
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20.10.2010 - 17:21
Culty

Ugh, im so confused by this whole conversation. it feels like you guys are talking about pretty much the same thing with different words.
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20.10.2010 - 17:30
Gorgon

Semantics is a bitch, isn't it? lol.
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21.10.2010 - 01:34
enumaelis

I guess there is no "epic metal" as a genre cause the word "epic", as "majestic", is a feature of the style of a band. So there is epic doom, epic power, epic black...
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21.10.2010 - 03:39
Kennoth

Written by Gorgon on 20.10.2010 at 16:54

If there is a set criteria. Well, guess what, in the case of epic there is not.


And that concludes this entire meaningless thread.
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