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Current situation in Gaza



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Original post

Posted by Gurth Bennas, 31.12.2010 - 13:30
I created this topic because of its importance. no one cares about poor people of Gaza. let's talk about Gaza in this topic or every news you hear about them.
31.07.2014 - 05:18
Ilham
Giant robot
Written by deadone on 31.07.2014 at 05:07

Oh I see. I thought you were referring to France and it's potential involvement in WWIII (French are generally as war mongering as the US and have done far worse in the late 20th century in terms of warcrimes than US ala Algeria).

As for why Morrocco might stay calm in such a situation: firstly there's the fear of the unknown. Plus the Western model of liberal democracy all of a sudden becomes completely discredited as it gets obliterated into nuclear ash. Under such conditions, Morroccans and others might find it preferrable to stick to old, traditional models of society and government.

I understand why you digressed, okay. Sorry, I'll just stick to the stuff I know .

Yeah the French rarely said no to a little war.

Well for Morocco, that's exactly what happened during the latest chain of revolutions in North Africa. We have a very stable economy and political environment, but the country had its bad days, as I said earlier. Riots/coups/terrorist attacks. That's why it's safer to imagine an escape plan than get caught here. We already had the talk with my parents.

And I was saying, without going to the lengths of WWIII, the problems in Gaza might spark terrorist attacks here, as there have been correlation between that conflict and what happened here in 2003. A 500 mere metres from my school and 800 from my place .
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31.07.2014 - 05:24
Vombatus
Potorro
Hmmm yeah, some 1914 resemblance here and there, but overall the situation isn't at all the same.
Our beloved leaders think a bit more before enrolling into a full scale war since wwII (say thanks to nuclear weapons), which was not the case back then with that romantic vision of war and lesser interaction/dependance between states (to put it simple). It is a well known phenomenon, this sobering effect that makes direct confrontation unlikely (never happened till now). The risk of overkill/mutual-kill/instant-kill (to pick up the terms of R.Jervis) makes it obvious that the odds of another war between the big guys very difficult (yeah, even if you think to know that Putin, Obama, Xin Jinping only dream of death and destruction). Cold War was a good example (and some of the situations back then were much more dire than now).

If anything, what we see with all the crap that is stirring up is just typical proliferation of non nuclear war that nuclear states use so frequently to continue with their confrontation, albeit not directly, through third-party states that temporarely become the center of the attention.
I still think the situation in Ukraine is quite interesting, as well as the outcome post-arab spring & similar crap in arab world/middle east. For Gaza, it's just another page of a long conflict, I can't see anything new happening.
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31.07.2014 - 05:40
Alex F
Slick Dick Rick
Written by deadone on 31.07.2014 at 05:34

Thanks for your insight.

However if the desirable solution is unobtainable, shouldn't a compromise be sought?

Of course a compromise should be sought. My personal preference would be one that is not affiliated with ANY religion, but rather (possibly) focused on the preservation of the numerous cultures from the area. I was simply trying to provide some food for though as to why many people feel the way they do.
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31.07.2014 - 10:38
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by Troy Killjoy on 31.07.2014 at 04:36

I think there are too many powers at play here for Ukraine to be the only potential threat for triggering a world war. Look at the oil and gas situation with China and Iran. Look at the current dispute between China and Japan. That's a lot of involvement from a very, very wealthy and powerful nation that has a lot of foreign leaders in their pocket. This Gaza stuff, as long as this conflict has been going on, is just one of many little instances that could trigger the big bang. Our media stopped caring about the Ukraine scenario until a plane with some white people got shot down. Our media barely ever cared about the Gaza situation until white people here started protesting against the most common side-effect of any battle or war: casualties.

Sorry for getting a little off topic here. I mean don't get me wrong the Israeli-Palestine conflict is upsetting and people are dying but this is likely just one of many scenes leading up to the final act.


true but just remember Romania, Poland , Baltics are in the NATO and paragraph 5 works , well worked after 19.11
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01.08.2014 - 12:18
mz

^A great example of how Israil attacks non-armed areas:
UN spokesman cries on camera over Gaza school attack .
Seemingly, Israil army had been informed and warned not to attack this UN made school, but they did not care.
Yeah Hamas are terrorists and stupid but what can be said about Israil?
In another news, Israil's army has asked for the evacuation of half of the Gaza strip. Are people supposed to jump into the water considering how the borders are blocked?
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01.08.2014 - 16:15
angel.
Evil Butterfly
Written by mz on 01.08.2014 at 12:18

Seemingly, Israil army had been informed and warned not to attack this UN made school, but they did not care.
Yeah Hamas are terrorists and stupid but what can be said about Israil?
In another news, Israil's army has asked for the evacuation of half of the Gaza strip. Are people supposed to jump into the water considering how the borders are blocked?

Well,most Israelis and Europeans and Americans. Know these poor people as the scums and second rates, so killing them is more than ok, who are you talking with? People has become so deaf and blind recently.,
They're. Arabs then it's ok if they die,who gives Fuck actually. If they're terrorists or civilians, sigh!
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01.08.2014 - 16:19
0rpheus

Gabor Maté, a Jewish Holocaust survivor:

"As a Jewish youngster growing up in Budapest, an infant survivor of the Nazi genocide, I was for years haunted by a question resounding in my brain with such force that sometimes my head would spin: "How was it possible? How could the world have let such horrors happen?"

"In Gaza today we find ways of justifying the bombing of hospitals, the annihilation of families at dinner, the killing of pre-adolescents playing soccer on a beach."

"In Israel-Palestine the powerful party has succeeded in painting itself as the victim, while the ones being killed and maimed become the perpetrators."

"Netanyahu, you who with surgical precision slaughter innocents, the young and the old, you who have cruelly blockaded Gaza for years, starving it of necessities, you who deprive Palestinians of more and more of their land, their water, their crops, their trees ? you care about life?"

[Full commentary]
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04.08.2014 - 14:14
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by deadone on 04.08.2014 at 03:06

Written by mz on 01.08.2014 at 12:18

^A great example of how Israil attacks non-armed areas:
UN spokesman cries on camera over Gaza school attack .
Seemingly, Israil army had been informed and warned not to attack this UN made school, but they did not care.
Yeah Hamas are terrorists and stupid but what can be said about Israil?


Israel doesn't bomb without reason. I suspect there was intel that the school was being used as a rocket launch base or terrorist base or arms depot. Islamic militants don't have qualms about using


ppl have no clue how those intel are gathered how secret services works, ppl even cant recognize governnet vieachles when they drives by, ppl cant even tell difference between Glock and Beretta in the holster ..... intel must be gathered, spying from satellite in Gaza is not possible , you need some insider, some help, and its risky, hiding between civilians are tactics .... I heard US SWAT team I shoot dead unarmed ppl in anti terror operation wont go to court, same as every Izreali solder has diplomatically immunity
100% agree whit last part whit you, even arabs non car about Syria, African civil wars, Lybia, Iraq, when there is isreal involved wall world cares... well ebola will wipe out all world

BTW any full time war whit Rus vs NATO --- whole mid east, Asia, Africa will die from human catastrophe because I doubt EU and USA will send 1th aid kits to those regions ..... if Europe and US from today stop send there food, blankets , medicaments ... in one month time word population be send to 16th century numbers---- in Europe many WP parties is rising, more shit in the mid east, more immigration and chaos, we will see new Adolf in Western Europe , this time not attacking to neighbor, but other contents ... sending all those refugees home, or to gas chamber.... US wont suffer so much, Europe will, and does China gives fuck about arab conflicts? No... China will re act if Rus send they troops to Mongolia.

11.09 we saw what happened article 5 and one country was hell fired and smart bombed .... why ppl don't judge Chechens and Doku Urlamov troops when they blow some bombs and why ppl don't judge Russians about war crimes in Dagestan and Chechenia, they do even worth thinks there as Isreal do ....
If Mexico should rocket to LA, US bomber plains will bomb whole Columbian jungle and Mexican cartels villas.... if Iraq will attack to Iran as in 80's Iran army will fire back. if Armenia will attack to Turkey, huge cannpns will pounding Armenian military positions, but there in nagaro carabach, are soldiers, not children...

solution, demilitarize Gaza, and UN solders will look there... only way how I see it
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04.08.2014 - 14:31
0rpheus

Probably, it's not just about Hamas when taking into consideration the Israeli energy crisis.

"Israel's defence minister has confirmed that military plans to 'uproot Hamas' are about dominating Gaza's gas reserve"
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04.08.2014 - 14:33
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by 0rpheus on 04.08.2014 at 14:31

Probably, it's not just about Hamas when taking into consideration the Israeli energy crisis.

"Israel's defence minister has confirmed that military plans to 'uproot Hamas' are about dominating Gaza's gas reserve"


if all hamas militants be killed and no rocket shout to Israel and if they still do this , then ...
if EU and US could attack to Russia and take all its gass and oil for free and if out fuel prizes be 90% less I would say GO ... just saying
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04.08.2014 - 14:37
Ilham
Giant robot
Because this is the Gaza thread. Not the Ebola thread.
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04.08.2014 - 14:51
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by Ilham on 04.08.2014 at 14:37

Because this is the Gaza thread. Not the Ebola thread.


yes but facebook all other forums, no one cares about other conflicts, Syria, ISIS, Africans butchering Africans and so on ... just saying
same time ppl still don't see Ukr in the map and Ukr has border to Pol and Mol, well Mol has whit Ro ...
when 100 Rus bombers will bomb Wasrhawa, and 100 napalm bombs will bomb kalisngrad (I like to say kenigberg since its still Germany) ... ppl still will not see , but next day might be to late to see , nothing a nuclear dusts , just saying
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04.08.2014 - 15:14
0rpheus

Written by Bad English on 04.08.2014 at 14:51

Written by Ilham on 04.08.2014 at 14:37

Because this is the Gaza thread. Not the Ebola thread.


yes but facebook all other forums, no one cares about other conflicts, Syria, ISIS, Africans butchering Africans and so on ... just saying
same time ppl still don't see Ukr in the map and Ukr has border to Pol and Mol, well Mol has whit Ro ...
when 100 Rus bombers will bomb Wasrhawa, and 100 napalm bombs will bomb kalisngrad (I like to say kenigberg since its still Germany) ... ppl still will not see , but next day might be to late to see , nothing a nuclear dusts , just saying


"no one"?! seriously?! Have you scanned all facebook and all forums or you just throw your "faulty generalization" on us?
People cared about Syria the most during a certain period and they still, but since another cause has jumped into the scene the focus is changed and this is quite normal. This doesn't mean they stopped caring about other causes.

No one has the right to blame others for caring more or less about certain causes, even indirectly. If you don't care about a certain topic, you can simply sit back and not engage in the discussion at first place.
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04.08.2014 - 15:20
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by 0rpheus on 04.08.2014 at 15:14

"no one"?! seriously?! Have you scanned all facebook and all forums or you just throw your "faulty generalization" on us?
People cared about Syria the most during a certain period and they still, but since another cause has jumped into the scene the focus is changed and this is quite normal. This doesn't mean they stopped caring about other causes.

No one has the right to blame others for caring more or less about certain causes, even indirectly. If you don't care about a certain topic, you can simply sit back and not engage in the discussion at first place.

but when it comes to islam lands when Israel do something its super huge panic

can I be provocative now?
did some Africans and syrian refugees, Palestinians as well has said thank you Europe for 1th aid kid?
other question rus decide invade to Poland, and WWIII starts, will arabs bleed for Europe, and fight against Russia?
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04.08.2014 - 15:39
0rpheus

Written by Bad English on 04.08.2014 at 14:33

Written by 0rpheus on 04.08.2014 at 14:31

Probably, it's not just about Hamas when taking into consideration the Israeli energy crisis.

"Israel's defence minister has confirmed that military plans to 'uproot Hamas' are about dominating Gaza's gas reserve"


if all hamas militants be killed and no rocket shout to Israel and if they still do this , then ...
if EU and US could attack to Russia and take all its gass and oil for free and if out fuel prizes be 90% less I would say GO ... just saying


I doubt eliminating Hamas - which was founded in 1987 - will stop Israel from continuing what it does and has been doing since 1948!

You talk about war for resources like if it was simply rightful or taken for granted. You make it sounds more like 'real-time strategy' PC games.
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04.08.2014 - 15:41
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by 0rpheus on 04.08.2014 at 15:39

I doubt eliminating Hamas - which was founded in 1987 - will stop Israel from continuing what it does and has been doing since 1948!

You talk about war for resources like if it was simply rightful or taken for granted. You make it sounds more like a 'real-time strategy' PC games.

I don't play PC games an taking out military of hamas, can show what izreal plans is

and if there would be original border, as in 47? would there be peace?
and why Gaza and West bank cant b indepent states ??
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04.08.2014 - 16:30
0rpheus

"Israel admitted to using Palestinians as human shields on more than 1,200 occasions"
[More...]

Sophisticated army, indeed!
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05.08.2014 - 09:17
Schtogny
Account deleted
Written by Gurth Bennas on 07.01.2011 at 15:02

Israel doesn't control the world singly. they're freemasons that controlling us.


Wrong. Alien Reptilian Shapeshifters control the Rothschilds who control the Banks which Andrew Jackson said controlled the world. I know this to be true. Tupac was reborn and had eyes like a lizard when he became the Phoenix and foretells the prophecy of the NWO controlled by the UN.

Joking aside, my understanding of the situation is that Hamas is somewhat an underground militant group that isn't easily pinpoint in who/what/where they are and Israel blows the fuck out of anything that seems to be Hamas. Meanwhile Hamas puts their shit and decoys and whatnot near schools and hospitals etc so that when Israel blows that shit up the populace hates Israel. To be fair Israel seems to give fair enough warning before they attack however (Hitting the target with a dummy round) and whoever is in Gaza seems to be too lazy or just too stupid to get out of the path of destruction and they end up getting killed or injured etc.

Problem it seems is that like most guerrilla groups, they stir shit up with Israel or whatever country but stay hidden enough that you can't just roll in and kick ass and take names so Israel hits their infrastructure and whatever they leave out in the open.

This is a westerners view of course that doesn't own TV though. How off is this for curiosities sake?
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05.08.2014 - 09:35
Schtogny
Account deleted
Quote:
Written by deadone on 24.07.2014 at 05:00


And the Israelis do come up with some sexy gear- for you Bad English:


Well, I don't know about sexy but the IMI made 1911 they sent to the states is about the only non-GI 1911 I have ever used that didn't shit itself as soon as it fell in some mud so I have to give them props on that.

Tavor is shit though. Bullpups are so fucking stupid and Tavors can't seem to stabilize their projectiles, or at least not the ones we get here in the US.
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05.08.2014 - 09:36
mz

Written by deadone on 04.08.2014 at 03:06


Israel doesn't bomb without reason. I suspect there was intel that the school was being used as a rocket launch base or terrorist base or arms depot. Islamic militants don't have qualms about using schools or mosques as bases for attacks. They've done it elsewhere in middle east including Iraq. They assume Western style militaries won't bomb these facilities though this is no longer the case.

Now I'm not saying that intel was correct.

The problem with this discussion is that regardless of what we say, you are going to answer that Israil doesn't attack without reason and that you "suspect" there was intel.
'Criminal act': Ban Ki-moon outraged over Israel's deadly strike on Gaza UN school

"The UN chief has called a new Israeli airstrike on a Gaza UN school that killed 10 and injured 35 a "moral outrage and a criminal act."
"For this particular installation we notified the Israeli Army on 33 separate occasions that this school in Rafah was being used to accommodate the displaced, the last time only an hour before the incident," the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) said in a statement.

Now, since I see you again questioning the purpose of us blaming Israil, let's just clarify it for the last time: I do consider Hamas to be terrorists. The thing is that the Israil is not the angelic force you are depicting. I see you mocking other comment about Israil using Palestinians as human shield. I have a few questions here:
1- Do you think that such thing had happened or not?
2-If it had happened, regardless of whatever Hamas does, is it morally acceptable or not?

This is going to be the last reply I give you on this topic. No offence, but to be honest, I feel like I could have a more logical discussion with a solid rock than you.
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06.08.2014 - 13:43
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
BTW why Isreal is not part of the NATO?
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06.08.2014 - 17:03
0rpheus

Written by deadone on 06.08.2014 at 03:35

...you and the other guys here are extremely anti-Israeli. No-one mentions anything about Hamas.

... you and Akram clearly don't give a flying fuck what Hamas does. It's all about shit slinging at Israel.

How funny it is that instead of discussing the news and info we post, you shift the discussion to a personal argument blaming us for our attitude, while you are doing the same exact thing being biased to Israel and nobody blamed you for it as personally and frankly, I don't give a fuck about your stand!
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06.08.2014 - 17:41
0rpheus

Statement: I don't support Hamas for their ideology contradicts mine. I am totally against random rocket firing.

Hamas is only one chapter of the story and I don't give it that much importance as the Palestinian-Israeli conflict is bigger and older than Hamas. The Palestinian resistance is wider and older than Hamas. And what Israel does is incomparable with Hamas' deeds.

Side note: Slamming Hamas doesn't make Israel any prettier!

So, if someone really wants to defend or beautify the image of Israel, he can't rely on slamming Hamas because Israel's atrocities predate Hamas and their nasty acts.
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08.08.2014 - 02:21
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by deadone on 08.08.2014 at 01:51

Written by Bad English on 06.08.2014 at 13:43

BTW why Isreal is not part of the NATO?



1. Geography - it's not located in Europe. However NATO has been pushing eastwards and have been trying to get as far as Ukraine and Georgia (which has pissed the Russians off to no-end).

2. Politics - Even if Israel played 100% according to UN resolutions, NATO would not want a partner that has open conflicts which could drag all of NATO in. Especially when NATO countries want to protect their oil supplies and lucrative arms, building and other deals with Israel's enemies.


yes but still west has suffered from islam terrorists as well , and can suffer so it don't matter much and as far as I know only enemy of NATO is another country
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08.08.2014 - 02:54
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by deadone on 08.08.2014 at 02:45

Written by Bad English on 08.08.2014 at 02:21

yes but still west has suffered from islam terrorists as well , and can suffer so it don't matter much and as far as I know only enemy of NATO is another country



West doesn't really care about Islamic terrorists. They supported Islamist terrorists in Libya and Syria (and then pretended to be surprised when these same terrorists killed a US ambassador in Libya or started running rampant through Syria and Iraq).

Basically the West is confused and lost without a cause. Their foreign policy is completely lacking in strategic focus and objectives. The Europeans are especially bad and completely deluded and gutless. The US is busy turning China and Russia into enemies cause USA thrives on enemies (British/native Americans/Mexicans/Spanish/Germans, Communists, Axis of Evil, War on Terrorism).

Basically the West squandered the opportunities created by fall of Communism.


Make China and Rus enemies would be super strategically smart move, I wish it happens, it would make weaker both states but anyway China must win in that conflict

I agree non cares about islam and civil wars there not west bot they (unless Iz do it) ... all shit if stats outside Euro borders non cares, same time if it does not bomb the camp ....
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08.08.2014 - 19:40
Monolithic
♠♠♠
The media and some individuals involved have done a pretty job spreading the shitstorm of hatred towards Israeli people. Hate the usual discrimination I see after every serious situation.
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27.08.2014 - 20:21
Kennoth

Hamas does a lot of disservice to Palestinian people, but I don't see how can anyone support Israelis in this conflict. If you compare the kill-count between the two belligerents, it's pretty easy to conclude who is using excessive show of force here. I guess anyone can be cocky when they're getting funds and support from US.
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27.08.2014 - 20:46
JD
Account deleted
The most mainstream topic ever.
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29.08.2014 - 20:52
Kennoth

Written by deadone on 29.08.2014 at 08:13

No such thing as excessive force.


Wow, really? So Holocaust wasn't an excessive force then?

Written by deadone on 29.08.2014 at 08:13

War is the ultimate test of survival and you do what you have to. And kill counts are an irrelevance - Hamas lacks capability to hurt Israel in this scenario. But if Israel only used "proportionatee" force, there'd be lots more Israelis dead.


War is a pointless bloodbath where poor people kill in the name of rich people. There is nothing glorifying about it, and people who romanticize it clearly haven't witnessed the horrors of war. And that's exactly my point, Hamas lacks capability to hurt Israel. Pretty much every rocket they fire gets destroyed by Iron Dome. So how exactly would more Israelis die in this scenario, if only proportionate force was used? Kill counts are irrelevant? Those "counts" were people once. Civilians. Children. More than just a statistic, so no, there is nothing irrelevant about it. Thousand dead Palestinians on 50 dead Israelis is not right and it never will be.

Written by deadone on 29.08.2014 at 08:13

To put it plainly, if Croatia (country you are from) applied only "appropriate" force in 1995, you'd still have the country in the grips of a civil war or at least instability. Instead you had Operation Storm which was a massive and very successful offensive on Serbs. It gave Croatia a solid peace. Meanwhile look at Bosnia which is struggling to maintain a semblance of unity or Kosovo which is still a mess. Sri Lanka is another great example - it was only when the Sri Lankan military attained an ability to launch a massive and well coordinated and supported conventional offensive that the LTTE was destroyed after 2 decades of war.


There's a big difference between these examples. Operation Storm was massive, but resulted in a very few casualties for both sides, considering the scale of it. Besides, Croatia was merely trying to gain control of its territory, while Palestine didn't invade Israeli land.

Written by deadone on 29.08.2014 at 08:13

This is the problem of Western societies - they are too scared to apply military force decisively lest it result in public or international backlash. Even the Russians have become indecisive. A short massive offensive in Ukraine to takeover the East would be far better than protracted long war with no sign of resolution. After all better to be occupied by Russians than dead or live in a constant state of terror (I've been there, it's no fun).


West is too scared for military action? Ha. Hardly. The main problem of Western societies is hypocrisy and arrogance. It's okay to violate basic human rights time and again, as long as you're a crucial ally of the West (see Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Israel). If you're not, well only then comes the moral outrage and eventual military intervention. It's also perfectly okay to help topple democratically elected leaders because they lean towards socialism and install right-wing sociopaths in their place (like the entirety of South America during the Cold War). And then they wash their hands clean and preach about moral superiority. I could go on an on about this.
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