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Posted by Silent Jay on 20.04.2011 at 15:23
I was wondering, there's the Big 4 of U.S. Thrash Metal, so what would be the U.K. equivalent?

My first thought is Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Motörhead and Saxon. But some of these emerged much earlier than others and the Thrash Big 4, so what other bands emerged a bit later (80's as opposed to 70's) that could be considered part of the Big 4 of British Heavy Metal?

Maybe we can make a definitive MetalStorm decision?

*Sorry if something like this has been posted before, it probably has, but I tried the search function and couldn't find anything.



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Un-Born Again

Posts: 75
From: USA

  12.08.2014 at 08:54
If all metal genres then I would go with:
Carcass
Napalm Death
Judas Priest
Venom

Just the NWOBHM bands then:
Judas Priest
Venom
Iron Maiden
Motorhead
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Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36500

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  12.08.2014 at 17:00
Written by Un-Born Again on 12.08.2014 at 08:54



Just the NWOBHM bands then:
Judas Priest
Venom
Iron Maiden
Motorhead


Motörhead and Judas Priest aren't part of the NWOBHM
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
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05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Un-Born Again

Posts: 75
From: USA

  13.08.2014 at 04:05
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 12.08.2014 at 17:00

Written by Un-Born Again on 12.08.2014 at 08:54



Just the NWOBHM bands then:
Judas Priest
Venom
Iron Maiden
Motorhead


Motörhead and Judas Priest aren't part of the NWOBHM


Why not? Isn't NWOBHM more of a time period then a sound?
They were starting out at that time. Judas Priest earlier than Motorhead though.
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deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3815
From: Australia

  13.08.2014 at 06:47
Written by Un-Born Again on 13.08.2014 at 04:05

Why not? Isn't NWOBHM more of a time period then a sound?
They were starting out at that time. Judas Priest earlier than Motorhead though.


I agree about "NWOBHM being a time period" but it is rather confused. It's confused cause NWOBHM didn't happen in a vacuum nor did Judas Priest and Motorhead exist outside of NWOBHM. Hell even Black Sabbath went NWOBHM during this period with the Dio era stuff.

NWOBHM really starts around late 1978/early 1979 when scene gets accepted at more mainstream level (aka popularity) and then 1980 with first major albums being released.

Judas Priest already had several albums out by then, a couple on a major label (CBS). They formed in 1969 but first album out only in 1974. However their first commercially succesful albums are Unleashed in the Eastlive album (1979) and British Steel (1980) - both are at peak of NWOBHM.

Motorhead formed in 1975, first album was 1977. However again they don't hit a peak until NWOBHM - Overkill and Bomber( both 1979), Ace of Spades (1980) and No Sleep Til Hammersmith which went number 1 (1981).

Hence both Motorhead and Judas Priest predate the scene but were also key players in it and were some of the most successful bands of the time. Judas Priest was pivotal in defining it too. In fact the only "true" NWOBHM band to actually be as big as these two was Iron Maiden. Def Leppard did well too but it was through pop/hard rock not anything metal.

We have to remember that Iron Maiden also formed in 1975 and others like Saxon, Samson, Diamond Head were formed in 1976. Motorhead was getting out albums sooner but the other bands are contemporaries. Priest's Sad Wings of Destiny was 1976 too.

I'd say it's fine to include both in NWOBHM if it's defined as a geographic/temporal scene. Both bands also invented new forms of metal too and took metal away from original early 1970s stuff.


Thanks to this I know have to listen the Lars Ulrich compiled "New Wave of British Heavy Metal Revisited."
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36500

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  13.08.2014 at 12:37
NWOBHM actually starts in 1979 when Sounds magazine coined the phrase in the May issue of thaat year.

Iron Maiden might have started in 1975 but released their first recording in 1979
Saxon started in 1977 first release also in 1979
Samson first release in 1978 but made an impact in 1979
Diamond Head made impact in 1979
Angel Witch in 1980
Venom first release in 1980
Tygers Of Pan Tang first release in 1979
Def Leppard first release in 1979
Raven first release in 1980
Blitzkrieg first release in 1980


Judas Priest already had five full-lengths out by 1979 (they only more or less were part of it with British Steel and not with Unleashed In The East (since that although released in 1979 contained songs from before that time)
Motörhead had one full-length out by 1979 (so they can be considered borderline NWOBHM come to think of it)

It is with this, good, reason, Lars Ulrich didn't include JP and Motörhead on his NWOBHM Revisited compilation.
Also anyone into metal and more specifically NWOBHM at the time didn't consider those two bands part of it because both bands had already released albums before NWOBHM took off.

However both JP and Motörhead have had influence on NWOBHM bands. the twin guitaring of JP especially and the roughness of Motörhead (especially on Venom)
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Aristarchos

Posts: 755

Age: 30
From: Sweden
  13.08.2014 at 16:46
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 13.08.2014 at 12:37

NWOBHM actually starts in 1979 when Sounds magazine coined the phrase in the May issue of thaat year.

Iron Maiden might have started in 1975 but released their first recording in 1979
Saxon started in 1977 first release also in 1979
Samson first release in 1978 but made an impact in 1979
Diamond Head made impact in 1979
Angel Witch in 1980
Venom first release in 1980
Tygers Of Pan Tang first release in 1979
Def Leppard first release in 1979
Raven first release in 1980
Blitzkrieg first release in 1980


Judas Priest already had five full-lengths out by 1979 (they only more or less were part of it with British Steel and not with Unleashed In The East (since that although released in 1979 contained songs from before that time)
Motörhead had one full-length out by 1979 (so they can be considered borderline NWOBHM come to think of it)

It is with this, good, reason, Lars Ulrich didn't include JP and Motörhead on his NWOBHM Revisited compilation.
Also anyone into metal and more specifically NWOBHM at the time didn't consider those two bands part of it because both bands had already released albums before NWOBHM took off.

However both JP and Motörhead have had influence on NWOBHM bands. the twin guitaring of JP especially and the roughness of Motörhead (especially on Venom)

I agree with you. I have sometimes seen Quartz mentioned as the first NWOBHM band. They released their first album in 1977, which makes them more of a predecessor to NWOBHM IMO. Do you consider them as part of NWOBHM, or as a predecessor to it?
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36500

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  13.08.2014 at 17:07
Written by Aristarchos on 13.08.2014 at 16:46


I agree with you. I have sometimes seen Quartz mentioned as the first NWOBHM band. They released their first album in 1977, which makes them more of a predecessor to NWOBHM IMO. Do you consider them as part of NWOBHM, or as a predecessor to it?


A bit of an anomaly, just like Motörhead. Their first albbum of course falls outside of the NWOBHM, but the album that made them popular (Stand Up And Fight) falls fully into it.
As for Quartz being the first NWOBHM band, that isn't the case, since there isn't a single band which can be called the first NWOBHM band because like I said the term was first used in an article in Sounds describing a wave of British bands and there a whole slew of bands are mentioned.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3815
From: Australia

  14.08.2014 at 02:24
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 13.08.2014 at 12:37

NWOBHM actually starts in 1979 when Sounds magazine coined the phrase in the May issue of thaat year.

Iron Maiden might have started in 1975 but released their first recording in 1979
Saxon started in 1977 first release also in 1979
Samson first release in 1978 but made an impact in 1979
Diamond Head made impact in 1979
Angel Witch in 1980
Venom first release in 1980
Tygers Of Pan Tang first release in 1979
Def Leppard first release in 1979
Raven first release in 1980
Blitzkrieg first release in 1980


Judas Priest already had five full-lengths out by 1979 (they only more or less were part of it with British Steel and not with Unleashed In The East (since that although released in 1979 contained songs from before that time)
Motörhead had one full-length out by 1979 (so they can be considered borderline NWOBHM come to think of it)

It is with this, good, reason, Lars Ulrich didn't include JP and Motörhead on his NWOBHM Revisited compilation.
Also anyone into metal and more specifically NWOBHM at the time didn't consider those two bands part of it because both bands had already released albums before NWOBHM took off.

However both JP and Motörhead have had influence on NWOBHM bands. the twin guitaring of JP especially and the roughness of Motörhead (especially on Venom)



When you mention it that way it does make sense.

I also do agree Motorhead is borderline.
Un-Born Again

Posts: 75
From: USA

  14.08.2014 at 02:32
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 13.08.2014 at 12:37

NWOBHM actually starts in 1979 when Sounds magazine coined the phrase in the May issue of thaat year.

Iron Maiden might have started in 1975 but released their first recording in 1979
Saxon started in 1977 first release also in 1979
Samson first release in 1978 but made an impact in 1979
Diamond Head made impact in 1979
Angel Witch in 1980
Venom first release in 1980
Tygers Of Pan Tang first release in 1979
Def Leppard first release in 1979
Raven first release in 1980
Blitzkrieg first release in 1980


Judas Priest already had five full-lengths out by 1979 (they only more or less were part of it with British Steel and not with Unleashed In The East (since that although released in 1979 contained songs from before that time)
Motörhead had one full-length out by 1979 (so they can be considered borderline NWOBHM come to think of it)

It is with this, good, reason, Lars Ulrich didn't include JP and Motörhead on his NWOBHM Revisited compilation.
Also anyone into metal and more specifically NWOBHM at the time didn't consider those two bands part of it because both bands had already released albums before NWOBHM took off.

However both JP and Motörhead have had influence on NWOBHM bands. the twin guitaring of JP especially and the roughness of Motörhead (especially on Venom)


Alright that makes sense.
Thanks for the enlightenment man.
With that in mind I would change Judas Priest to Saxon.
I bought their Denim and Leather album on vinyl at my local cd store for 99 cents.
Besides Venom, I don't know much about the other bands except for Def Leppard and Raven.
----
I'm going hungry
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36500

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  14.08.2014 at 13:06
Written by Un-Born Again on 14.08.2014 at 02:32


Besides Venom, I don't know much about the other bands except for Def Leppard and Raven.


Check out the compilation we mentioned that was compiled by Lars Ulrich together with Geoff Barton from Sounds who coined the NWOBHM phrase.

NWOBHM 79 Revisited can be heard in its entirety here.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Silent Jay

Posts: 254

Age: 26
From: UK

  15.08.2014 at 19:56
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 13.08.2014 at 12:37
Judas Priest already had five full-lengths out by 1979 (they only more or less were part of it with British Steel and not with Unleashed In The East (since that although released in 1979 contained songs from before that time)
Motörhead had one full-length out by 1979 (so they can be considered borderline NWOBHM come to think of it)

It is with this, good, reason, Lars Ulrich didn't include JP and Motörhead on his NWOBHM Revisited compilation.
Also anyone into metal and more specifically NWOBHM at the time didn't consider those two bands part of it because both bands had already released albums before NWOBHM took off.

However both JP and Motörhead have had influence on NWOBHM bands. the twin guitaring of JP especially and the roughness of Motörhead (especially on Venom)
This is what I thought about Judas Priest. I'd lump them more with Rainbow and Rush (despite the differences in sound) period-wise than with the NWoBHM lot.

Iron Maiden, Saxon, Def Leppard (reluctantly) and Venom... Diamond Head/Angel Witch/Tygers of Pan Tang? Seems a massive drop off after the first 3
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3815
From: Australia

  18.08.2014 at 02:46
Written by Silent Jay on 15.08.2014 at 19:56

Iron Maiden, Saxon, Def Leppard (reluctantly) and Venom... Diamond Head/Angel Witch/Tygers of Pan Tang? Seems a massive drop off after the first 3


I don't know how huge the NWOBHM was in terms of overall popularity. Obviously Iron Maiden was huge even being on Top of the Pops. The other big sellers of the time were Motorhead and older stuff ala Black Sabbath and Judas Priest. Most of NWOBHM seemed to languish in obscurity.
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36500

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  18.08.2014 at 11:30
Most NWOBHM bands only released one or two 7"s and only a couple of bands were really popular.
Most bands didn't even play outside of England. A couple of the smaller bands came over to The Netherlands but that's about it.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37843

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  18.08.2014 at 20:02
I agree whit Marcel , as in old days I was digging in MA, many NWOBHM bands has maybe 1 album what I heard in vibrations of doom (some are in classic metal samples) there was like ne band one 7 , beautiful ashley something I cant remember, like yellow cover, 2 songs its all ad man NWOBHM bands was like that

http://strappadometalblog.blogspot.se/2009/10/chartered-hurricane-cathy-come-home.html#axzz3AlPTNWAf

many band just relised some good album and desapeared, and many come back up after '00' since that think, vinyls, trad, NWOBHM came back, many re start play, nd some wrote albums as well ....
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Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Warman
Erotic Stains

Posts: 7440

Age: 24
From: Sweden

  19.08.2014 at 11:35
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 18.08.2014 at 11:30

Most NWOBHM bands only released one or two 7"s and only a couple of bands were really popular.
Most bands didn't even play outside of England. A couple of the smaller bands came over to The Netherlands but that's about it.

I might sound like an idiot here, but what happened with all the NWOBHM music/bands then? The subgenre isn't really my strong suit.
----


"The Bro Code" article 72: A bro never spell-checks.
Silent Jay

Posts: 254

Age: 26
From: UK

  19.08.2014 at 12:25
Written by Warman on 19.08.2014 at 11:35

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 18.08.2014 at 11:30

Most NWOBHM bands only released one or two 7"s and only a couple of bands were really popular.
Most bands didn't even play outside of England. A couple of the smaller bands came over to The Netherlands but that's about it.

I might sound like an idiot here, but what happened with all the NWOBHM music/bands then? The subgenre isn't really my strong suit.
Most died out in obscurity pretty early (Ethel the Frog). A handful lasted for a while longer (Diamond Head) but couldn't keep up with the big boys (such as Iron Maiden etc). Some later reformed for only some tours, perhaps a new album, and/or released compilation albums in the 90's/00's collecting together their various recordings (Trespass) but largely unheard of since.
Dane Train
Beers & Kilts

Posts: 8896

Age: 30
From: USA

  19.08.2014 at 18:14
Written by Silent Jay on 15.08.2014 at 19:56

This is what I thought about Judas Priest. I'd lump them more with Rainbow and Rush (despite the differences in sound) period-wise than with the NWoBHM lot.

Iron Maiden, Saxon, Def Leppard (reluctantly) and Venom... Diamond Head/Angel Witch/Tygers of Pan Tang? Seems a massive drop off after the first 3


Why do you say "reluctantly" for Def Leppard? They had some killer albums as well as some duds. I always felt they were one of the more important bands coming out of this scene.
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Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37843

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  19.08.2014 at 19:25
Written by Warman on 19.08.2014 at 11:35

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 18.08.2014 at 11:30

Most NWOBHM bands only released one or two 7"s and only a couple of bands were really popular.
Most bands didn't even play outside of England. A couple of the smaller bands came over to The Netherlands but that's about it.

I might sound like an idiot here, but what happened with all the NWOBHM music/bands then? The subgenre isn't really my strong suit.


bands split up 90% if they did when that period was over, not many reach 90's Iron maiden became heavier, more different and Bruce left... Saxon became also heavier , not so many fans ....Cloven Hood split up, Tank, Def leppard became shit pop, Venom never ever created good album after 1th ... Satan split up, same di Diamon Head and try come back in 90's failed ... many even didn't survived 2. album.... only modern metalheads what nowadays thinks tapes, cassetes and bad quality demo is good, re unite and re born that genre ... in mid 00's
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Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Cill O' Connor

Posts: 373

Age: 20
From: Ireland

  19.08.2014 at 23:13
Just because there was a big 4 of thrash doesn't necessarily mean that there were only 4 big NWOBHM bands.
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 37843

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  19.08.2014 at 23:52
Written by Cill O' Connor on 19.08.2014 at 23:13

Just because there was a big 4 of thrash doesn't necessarily mean that there were only 4 big NWOBHM bands.


there were IMO 2 NWOBHM ... IM and Saxon
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing

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