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The original post

Posted by Cynic Metalhead on 01.09.2013 at 17:05
IGI series.

it's a cool game.



Page 32 of 34

whatsacow

Posts: 2045

Age: 22
From: Australia

  14.01.2015 at 12:09
Written by Slayer666 on 14.01.2015 at 10:19

Stuff you said.

Yeah I heard about the remage of Bloodlines getting a cease and decease which is kind of bullshit.

I didn't really dislike Shadowrun, I just didn't get into it. I might try Dragonfall if it's on sale.

Dragon Age is innovative. It's trying to see how much of an MMO it can be without being an MMO. It was like they started making one and then remembered how terrible The Old Republic was and changed some shit.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
IronAngel

Posts: 4453

Age: 25
From: Finland

  14.01.2015 at 15:30
There are plenty of single-player MMORPGs out there, though. Like Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, which is even entertaining for a while.

I don't think Shadowrun: Dragonfall is very retro (and it's very little like the original Shadowrun). I guess the fact that it's heavily text-based is kind of old-school (though I prefer it to voice acting), but I don't think even being turn-based is particularly retro. It's just good design, like an RPG should be played. I mean, unless you want to dismiss an entire genre (turn-based isometric RPG in this case) as nostaglia bait, there isn't much old-school in the game.
Dima

Posts: 717

Age: 20
From: Australia

  14.01.2015 at 16:27
This is how world design should be done people. Take note.
!J.O.O.E.!
GZA

Posts: 16405

Age: 31
From: UK

  14.01.2015 at 17:14
Written by Dima on 14.01.2015 at 16:27

This is how world design should be done people. Take note.

Please stop: I can only go so erect.
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Mattybu

Posts: 2479
From: Canada

  14.01.2015 at 17:18
Written by Machiavelli on 14.01.2015 at 03:29




10000000000/10
Nucky

Posts: 94
From: Slovenia

  14.01.2015 at 21:33
Right now I'm re-living my teenage years playing GTA San Andreas.. I adore GTA games..
whatsacow

Posts: 2045

Age: 22
From: Australia

  15.01.2015 at 03:47
Written by IronAngel on 14.01.2015 at 15:30

There are plenty of single-player MMORPGs out there, though. Like Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, which is even entertaining for a while.

I don't think Shadowrun: Dragonfall is very retro (and it's very little like the original Shadowrun). I guess the fact that it's heavily text-based is kind of old-school (though I prefer it to voice acting), but I don't think even being turn-based is particularly retro. It's just good design, like an RPG should be played. I mean, unless you want to dismiss an entire genre (turn-based isometric RPG in this case) as nostaglia bait, there isn't much old-school in the game.

How is Kingdoms of Amalur better than Inquisition? Sure the combat is punchier, but the world is boring and empty and literally feels like an mmo world, the story is garbage, and there's not weight to anything you do. Inquisitions world at least has some thought put into it and the story is at least passable. I like both games, But KoA is far worse.

How isn't it retro? The game was funded by nostalgia, like everything on Kickstarter these days. Is there anything that's being kickstarted that isn't trying to recreate something from our childhood?
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
-DC-002-
Mastercommander

Posts: 1698

Age: 24
From: USA

  15.01.2015 at 04:40
Monster Hunter 4U just got a release date of February 14th! and the new model of 3DS comes out then as well. My body glows red with readiness (Faal anyone?). I'm also lucky to have a full hunting party with friends so that makes it even better.
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Coldgrits
Slayer666

Posts: 2428

Age: 20
From: Serbia

  15.01.2015 at 04:54
Written by whatsacow on 15.01.2015 at 03:47

but the world is boring and empty and literally feels like an mmo world, the story is garbage, and there's not weight to anything you do.


......................................................................................................

Are you......... are you being sarcastic? Because this is literally a word-for-word description of Inquisition. It takes a borderline brainwashed Bioware fanboy to fail
to see it. I mean..... really? Christ, is there some kind of contract with Satan EA you have to sign before playing a Bioware game post-2011? The lack of self-awareness is....
mind-boggling, to say the least.

On second thought, keep your money. Shadowrun will do just fine without you and the romance options, characters who appear to be written by meth addicts and dozens of hours of empty grind you love so much.
whatsacow

Posts: 2045

Age: 22
From: Australia

  15.01.2015 at 06:17
Written by Slayer666 on 15.01.2015 at 04:54

Written by whatsacow on 15.01.2015 at 03:47

but the world is boring and empty and literally feels like an mmo world, the story is garbage, and there's not weight to anything you do.


......................................................................................................

Are you......... are you being sarcastic? Because this is literally a word-for-word description of Inquisition. It takes a borderline brainwashed Bioware fanboy to fail
to see it. I mean..... really? Christ, is there some kind of contract with Satan EA you have to sign before playing a Bioware game post-2011? The lack of self-awareness is....
mind-boggling, to say the least.

On second thought, keep your money. Shadowrun will do just fine without you and the romance options, characters who appear to be written by meth addicts and dozens of hours of empty grind you love so much.

I was saying in comparison. I like Inquisition. It's better than 2, but not better than 1. It's not terrible, but it's not outstanding. As someone who plays A LOT of MMO's, Dragon Age's areas feel like a single player game, even if the quests are like an mmo.

And the lack of self awareness? Go up and read my previous comment, specifically this bit: "Dragon Age is innovative. It's trying to see how much of an MMO it can be without being an MMO. It was like they started making one and then remembered how terrible The Old Republic was and changed some shit." I was remarking on the comparison between Kingdoms of Amalur and DA:I, not DA:I itself, or DA:I in comparison to Shadowrun.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
IronAngel

Posts: 4453

Age: 25
From: Finland

  15.01.2015 at 10:49
I don't know if KoA is better; I have yet to play DA:I. I just replied to your argument that DA:I is "innovative" because it tries to implement MMO design into a single-player game. Evidently, that has been done before. (And moreover, who would ever think it's a good idea?)

KoA is bad because of the reasons you listed. Features that, frankly, define MMO. But it is entertaining for a while because of the combat and character building aspect.

I don't think Kickstarter trends rely solely on nostalgia. That plays into it, but the most hyped games tend to be games in genres that have not had big publisher love recently. The only reason isometric RPGs or space simulators might seem "retro" is because nobody's made any good mainstream ones in over a decade (until just now). People want good games in genres they like. In and of themselves, those genres have potential to be just as relevant as the latest fad shooter. As I said, unless you consider being turn-based, text-heavy and isometric signs of "retro", there's not much in Shadowrun: Dragonfall that's intentionally vintage. It's not like it's NEO Scavenger or a Spiderweb Software game.
Dima

Posts: 717

Age: 20
From: Australia

  16.01.2015 at 03:09
Someone pass me the drugs
whatsacow

Posts: 2045

Age: 22
From: Australia

  16.01.2015 at 06:26
Written by IronAngel on 15.01.2015 at 10:49

I don't know if KoA is better; I have yet to play DA:I. I just replied to your argument that DA:I is "innovative" because it tries to implement MMO design into a single-player game. Evidently, that has been done before. (And moreover, who would ever think it's a good idea?)

KoA is bad because of the reasons you listed. Features that, frankly, define MMO. But it is entertaining for a while because of the combat and character building aspect.

I don't think Kickstarter trends rely solely on nostalgia. That plays into it, but the most hyped games tend to be games in genres that have not had big publisher love recently. The only reason isometric RPGs or space simulators might seem "retro" is because nobody's made any good mainstream ones in over a decade (until just now). People want good games in genres they like. In and of themselves, those genres have potential to be just as relevant as the latest fad shooter. As I said, unless you consider being turn-based, text-heavy and isometric signs of "retro", there's not much in Shadowrun: Dragonfall that's intentionally vintage. It's not like it's NEO Scavenger or a Spiderweb Software game.

I guess you're right, but at the same time a lot of the stuff on there is directly catered to nostalgia, like Shovel Knight, or a sequel Planescape Torment. Don't get me wrong, I'll play these games and I'll probably enjoy them, but I'd rather put my kickstarter money towards something innovative rather than something that's existed before.

Also, my thing about DA:I was a joke.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 3298

Age: 23
From: Serbia

  18.01.2015 at 21:36
Doom 2 with Brutal Doom skin over it ...fun thing
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"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
whatsacow

Posts: 2045

Age: 22
From: Australia

  19.01.2015 at 00:27
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 18.01.2015 at 21:36

Doom 2 with Brutal Doom skin over it ...fun thing

Indeed. I was so pissed when I wasn't allowed to name that my game of the year in 2013... I think the best thing they did was update the sound in that game. The guns sound beefy, the soundtrack is awesome (well, except now it's 10x easier to tell where they stole their songs from.)
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 3298

Age: 23
From: Serbia

  19.01.2015 at 18:40
Written by whatsacow on 19.01.2015 at 00:27

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 18.01.2015 at 21:36

Doom 2 with Brutal Doom skin over it ...fun thing

Indeed. I was so pissed when I wasn't allowed to name that my game of the year in 2013... I think the best thing they did was update the sound in that game. The guns sound beefy, the soundtrack is awesome (well, except now it's 10x easier to tell where they stole their songs from.)

thing i like the most with brutal doom is ability to make rocket jumps it takes like 60hp but man its so good!
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"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
ylside

Posts: 4547
From: Morocco

  20.01.2015 at 00:28
I just finished the AWESOME, the EXCELLENT Primordia, albeit a bit short.

I followed with Gemini Rue, less good than Primordia but still interesting.

I just tried "Papers Please"...

I don't know what to think honestly Having worked in administration and having had to do clerical tasks myself - I am not sure whether I enjoyed playing this game or not, fact checking reminded me of work, a vague feeling of unease...
Charly546

Posts: 296

Age: 24
  20.01.2015 at 20:02
Seems like there are a few doomers here. I've been playing Doom for a while now, recent favourite wads are BTSX E1 and Going Down. I've also tried Brutal Doom but that one got old fast.

There's also a Doom engine based stand-alone and free shooter called The Adventures of Square which is pretty damn good, featuring fast-paced and quite challenging gameplay and various shape-related puns. Also - it's free and stand-alone. http://adventuresofsquare.com/news.php
Slayer666

Posts: 2428

Age: 20
From: Serbia

  21.01.2015 at 17:38
Written by whatsacow on 16.01.2015 at 06:26

Don't get me wrong, I'll play these games and I'll probably enjoy them, but I'd rather put my kickstarter money towards something innovative rather than something that's existed before.


Like what? Cinematic cutscenes and high production values haven't been innovative since the early-mid 2000's. "Everyone humping everyone" LGBT orgies otherwise known as "romance" options don't count. Modern Elder Scrolls games are just a high-tech, stripped down versions of their older counterparts. I can't think of a single significant innovation in the WRPG (I'm fairly clueless about JRPG) genre in the past god-knows how many years. And before you say "Dark Souls" or "Dragon's Dogma", it's rather debatable whether those games are RPGs. For example, Dark Souls plays much more like, say, Devil May Cry than Fallout 1/2 or even Bloodlines.

The point is, I don't see anything remotely resembling innovation anywhere on the horizon, Kickstarter or AAA. And I'd rather support games with actually well thought-out gameplay and writing instead of one where more work hours and other resources have been put into creating pretty graphics in order to perfectly render a gay dude's naked ass than making combat (the thing you'll be doing for about 80% of the game) interesting.
whatsacow

Posts: 2045

Age: 22
From: Australia

  21.01.2015 at 23:21
Written by Slayer666 on 21.01.2015 at 17:38

Written by whatsacow on 16.01.2015 at 06:26

Don't get me wrong, I'll play these games and I'll probably enjoy them, but I'd rather put my kickstarter money towards something innovative rather than something that's existed before.


Like what? Cinematic cutscenes and high production values haven't been innovative since the early-mid 2000's. "Everyone humping everyone" LGBT orgies otherwise known as "romance" options don't count. Modern Elder Scrolls games are just a high-tech, stripped down versions of their older counterparts. I can't think of a single significant innovation in the WRPG (I'm fairly clueless about JRPG) genre in the past god-knows how many years. And before you say "Dark Souls" or "Dragon's Dogma", it's rather debatable whether those games are RPGs. For example, Dark Souls plays much more like, say, Devil May Cry than Fallout 1/2 or even Bloodlines.

The point is, I don't see anything remotely resembling innovation anywhere on the horizon, Kickstarter or AAA. And I'd rather support games with actually well thought-out gameplay and writing instead of one where more work hours and other resources have been put into creating pretty graphics in order to perfectly render a gay dude's naked ass than making combat (the thing you'll be doing for about 80% of the game) interesting.

"Dark Souls plays like Devil May Cry."

Have you even played Dark Souls, firstly? It's an extremely stat heavy game where you find loot and level up and spend hours worrying about numbers, like an rpg. It's also a game where you make alliances or enemies that effect the story and the way the game turns out/which side quests you unlock and which bosses you fight or don't fight. Sure, it's a bitn subtler than "Do you want to fuck morrigan or this cow" but it's there.

Secondly, who even brought up RPGs? I said games in general. And what's your problem with gay dudes? Is that why you didn't like DA:I? 80% of the game? What did you pause it and just go nuts with the lube for 70 hours :p

And yeah, a good game is a good game, and at the end of the day I guess I'm somewhat of a hypocrite. I would totally kickstart a 90's inspired fps. I would totally kickstart a new Oddworld game or a tactical fps like Ghost Recon or Rainbow Six. I'd still reather see something completely different though, something that moved the medium forward rather than kept it in the past - or at the very least moved the genre they're bringing back forward in a meaningful way.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
tea[m]ster
Au Pays Natal

Posts: 3705

Age: 42
From: USA

  22.01.2015 at 00:06
You guys talking about Doom...makes me want to fire it up again, or try anyways - I haven't played it since windows 95. Now that I think about it , the first Quake and it's expansions needs another playthrough too.

Does all this stuff run on windows 8? Or am I gonna have to fuck with shit to get it to run?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPfaQJuWGvU
Slayer666

Posts: 2428

Age: 20
From: Serbia

  22.01.2015 at 00:46
Written by whatsacow on 21.01.2015 at 23:21

"Dark Souls plays like Devil May Cry."


Gonna stop you right there, because I never said that. What I said was that it plays more like DMC than games that define the RPG genre. You know, in comparison. Reading comprehension, dude.

Quote:

It's an extremely stat heavy game where you find loot and level up and spend hours worrying about numbers, like an rpg.


This exact thing also applies to Borderlands, which I think we can both agree is not a full-fledged RPG.

There are two gameplay aspects to Dark Souls: combat and exploration. Exploration doesn't require loot/leveling up and combat is much more reliant on your reflexes and knowledge of your enemy's moves than in-game stats or equipment. That's why there are players (albeit a few) who can run through the game and beat it with nothing but a club and tighty whities. Meanwhile, try finding a single playthrough of Baldur's Gate where the player never leveled up or changed equipment. You can also add the non-existence of any skills unrelated to combat to the pile of reasons why Dark Souls is one foot on the not-RPG side.

Quote:

It's also a game where you make alliances or enemies that effect the story and the way the game turns out/which side quests you unlock and which bosses you fight or don't fight.


To be honest, I don't remember making alliances having any effect outside of multyplayer. I ran through both games without ever joining a Covenant and did just fine.

Quote:

Secondly, who even brought up RPGs? I said games in general.


Very well, point me towards a particularly innovative non-RPG game in the past 5-6 years. Really, the only I can remember off the top of my head would be Spec Ops: The Line for its more-or-less innovative approach towards storytelling.

(oh, and I said "innovative game", not an interactive screensaver, before someone brings up "Journey" or similar crap)


Quote:

And what's your problem with gay dudes?


Nothing, that was just an example. My problem is with shitty video-game romances in general, or in other words, all video-game romances. They feel more like collectibles/achievements rather than actual relationships. This is especially true of Bioware games.

"Hey, I'd like to pork you".
"I'd like that too, but I have this huge problem preventing me from porking you. Only YOU can help me with it, only YOU can resolve something I've been struggling with for most of my life with 10-15 lines of dialogue and a side-quest".
"Kay, I did the side-quest and said my 10-15 lines of dialogue"
"Awesome, genital bumping time!"

It's pretty sad how many resources go into this and how enamored people are by it. Ffs, people, you do know there's roughly 43 quadrillion dating simulators on the market, right?

Quote:

80% of the game? What did you pause it and just go nuts with the lube for 70 hours :p


The 80% referred to combat. Again, why reply to my post if you can't even be arsed to read it?

Quote:

I'd still reather see something completely different though, something that moved the medium forward rather than kept it in the past


Yeah, me too. Good luck finding it, though. And if prettier graphics and more species to bump private-parts with is what developers consider innovation, then I say lets stay in the nineties forever. At least butt ugly graphics and clunky gameplay never made me cringe so hard it caused physical pain, unlike this one other game I won't mention. *ahem*
whatsacow

Posts: 2045

Age: 22
From: Australia

  22.01.2015 at 01:42
Written by Slayer666 on 22.01.2015 at 00:46

Long ass response that will clog up to much of this forum if I just hit quote.

I apologise for misreading half of what you said. I had only just woken up

1) Both Borderlands and Dark Souls are Action Roleplaying Games. It's a subgenre of RPG.

2) The Alliances you make in the Souls games are subtle. For instance, in Demon's Souls, one of the NPCs just randomly starts killing all of the other NPCs. You can help him and get rewards, kill him and get nothing, or just let him go and see what he does. This effects your resources. This effects your abilities as you can be left unable to do a great deal of things.
In Dark Souls, this plays out more in effecting what happens to each character. You can save most characters, or you can let them die. You can influence how they feel about you through your actions, whether that be siding with covenants, or killing certain enemies. That choice is up to you. No, the game never makes these things explicit, but they are all there.

3) Innovative Games:
Minecraft: Whether you like it or not, it innovated in a huge way. While other games have done crafting before, they either were more of a tool, or they weren't to the same level that minecraft was.

Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons: It innovated with the single player co-op thing, but that's not what I think it innovates. It innovates in that it tells a story using it's mechanics. It tells a story in only a way that a game can.

Dark Souls: If we discard the gameplay, the game is still unique in how ambiguously it presents its story, and the means by which it does so.

Mount and Blade: Another innovative RPG, one that merges rpg elements, action elements, and sid meier style strategy together. There's no story, you just choose a nation, side with it, betray it, or start your own nation by building up forces. The way it approaches mounted combat and large scale battles is also pretty unique.

Crusader Kings: Innovates in how it approaches grand strategy in a personal way, by making it about people rather than nations.

The Arkham games: Created a whole new method of combat which relies more on rhythm than button mashing prowess.

The Walking Dead: They show how to make the adventure game viable in the 21st century by cutting out the fluff and leaving the decisions and dialogue.

Penumbra/Amnesia: Started the no combat approach to horror in a big way, and used the sanity mechanic to make sure we saw the monsters less so they remained scary.

I can think of tons more if you have the time. You just haven't been playing the right games.

4) I know you hate on Dragon Age: Inquisition, but it at least takes baby steps towards improving the romance systems in games. Instead of being able to bang anyone, people will say no to you based on their sexual preferences and whether they like you or not. Yeah, they still suck, but they might improve sometime.

If there's anything I missed in that, let me know.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
Slayer666

Posts: 2428

Age: 20
From: Serbia

  22.01.2015 at 12:19
Written by whatsacow on 22.01.2015 at 01:42

le post


1) When you say ARPGs, I think Diablo and its ilk. I'd tag Dark Souls as an action game with RPG elements.

2) Hm, if you say so. I've never noticed these things, as nothing ever compelled me to approach a character in DS and start a conversation with him 6 times in a row before he says something that triggers a sub-quest or whatever. I don't like when a game holds my hand, sure, but intentionally obscuring information and being all cryptic for no good reason is another thing entirely.

3)
Minecraft - A'ight, you got me there. While I personally wouldn't touch the game with a 10-foot pole held by someone else, what it did was really never seen before.

Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons - Plenty of games tell a story in a way only a game can. Not much of an argument.

Dark Souls - "the game is still unique in how ambiguously it presents its story", Shadow of the Colossus? And I'm sure there's more, although not on the same level as DS. Silent Hill 2 sorta comes to mind. Oh, and for combat, check out Severance: Blade of Darkness from the ancient 2001. It's pretty much the prototype for Demon Souls/Dark Souls. No magic, though.

Mount and Blade - Eh... *scratches chin* more like a collection of various elements of innovative games that came before it, bundled up in a more-or-less unique package. Half a point.
Besides, it officially came out in 2008, putting it slightly outside the range of this discussion.

Crusader Kings: no idea, haven't played it or heard anything about it

The Arkham games: I thought the game credited for making rythmic combat popular was the first Assassin's Creed? And that one is from 2007, which is, again, outside the range.

The Walking Dead - Indigo Prophecy did that back in 2005, although I don't know whether IP offers as much freedom of choice.

Penumbra/Amnesia - Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth, from 2005/2006. While it did have combat, the second half of the game introduced the whole sanity/mind loss thingy. It isn't nearly as refined as those two games, though.

I'm not saying the games you listed are carbon-copies of older games or that the entire industry is just shitting out CoDs and FIFAs only, but there has definitively been a major idea shortage in the past 5+ years.

4) Not sure how that's an improvement. Viconia from Baldur's Gate 2 back in 2000 wouldn't bang you if you were female or of certain race. They've always been able to refuse you. Not to mention how utterly unneeded romances are in games. Or at least they will be unneeded until they get fixed, but I'd rather developers/writers use that time to do something more worthwhile.
!J.O.O.E.!
GZA

Posts: 16405

Age: 31
From: UK

  22.01.2015 at 15:08
I'm not seeing what's innovative about Spec Ops: The Line. It's a generic cover shooter with a very good things-are-not-what-they-seem story with some superficial moral choice-through-gameplay mechanics, almost all of which are a "this or that' choice" and have no bearing on the final outcome of the game. Nothing new or innovative about that. The only way it could be considered innovative is if you believe that it uses the generic gameplay as a commentary on video game violence / mindless killing (which is of course horseshit; the devs were just better at writing stories than they were making games, and even if that was true surely that would fall under the "Plenty of games tell a story in a way only a game can" criticism).


*Accidentally edited over Dark Souls rant open on another page so fuck it*
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whatsacow

Posts: 2045

Age: 22
From: Australia

  22.01.2015 at 15:10
Written by Slayer666 on 22.01.2015 at 12:19

One post to rule them all

1) I think that Borderlands is just Diablo but with guns, and well, shit. Dark Souls is probably more RPG than Diablo is in my eyes.

2) That's fair enough. Dark Souls may be my favourite game of all time, but it's ambiguity can at times hinder more than it's worth. I'm on my 7th playthrough and I'm still noticing shit. Still, even in the main quest you can ally yourself with the enemy, kill a goddess and plunge the world into darkness etc. It's cool that way.

3) Brothers is a bit different in that it actually uses the controls to tell it's story. I've never seen that in the 20 years I've been gaming. It's simple, but surprisingly effective.

Mount and Blade: Is mixing your influences the source of most innovation? Think of an innovative title, and it's probably just a mashup of ideas that came before it. Those influences are just hidden well.

Amnesia/Penumbra: Still innovated with the no combat thing. While other games did it before, I still feel these games did it differently enough to be labeled innovative.

Crusader Kings: Play the second game. I have a feeling you'd enjoy it from the games you discussed. It does crib rpg elements and it is one of the deepest games I've ever played.

***New Editions***
Yeah I thought of more games that innovate

Starseed Pilgrim: The game itself is the puzzle. It's a bit more complex than that and does things with space manipulation that I'd consider innovative.

Antichamber: The way it approaches puzzles is unique. It bends the laws of game design in ways that some may be uncomfortable with as well.

Shelter: A game where you're a mother protecting her young.

Dungeons of the Endless: Part roguelike, part tower defense, part single player moba game. No, these elements aren't separate.

Papers Please: A game that makes munanities compelling in order to amplify how fucked up certain parts of the world are. I doubt many other games have these mechanics, and I doubt they use them in such a way that contextualises the game world and the harsh realities of life.

etc.

Man, I really can't think of many triple a games that truly innovate.

4) It's an improvement over modern bioware. Btw, have you played the fan made mod for Dragon Age: Origins which recreates the first area from Baldurs Gate 2? It's pretty darn excellent.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
whatsacow

Posts: 2045

Age: 22
From: Australia

  22.01.2015 at 15:15
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 22.01.2015 at 15:08

I'm not seeing what's innovative about Spec Ops: The Line. It's a generic cover shooter with a very good things-are-not-what-they-seem story. Nothing new or innovative about that. The only way it could be considered innovative is if you believe that it uses the generic gameplay as a commentary on video game violence / mindless killing (which is of course horseshit; the devs were just better at writing stories than they were making games, and even if that was true surely that would fall under the "Plenty of games tell a story in a way only a game can" criticism).

Idk. It's a well made satirical piece that eschews the traditional notion that humour evokes laughter - a la film. It's also innovative in that it can make people say pretentious bullshit like that they learned from their literature degrees that aren't getting them anywhere in life...

It's not so much innovative as it is something that games should learn from. I especially like the way choices are handled in that game and how they are entirely steeped in the mechanics of the game. Do you shoot people in the crowd to stop them or shoot your gun in the air to scare the off? The choice where you choose between the hanging men is particularly ingenious with its hidden choices.
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GZA

Posts: 16405

Age: 31
From: UK

  22.01.2015 at 15:23
Written by whatsacow on 22.01.2015 at 15:15

Idk. It's a well made satirical piece that eschews the traditional notion that humour evokes laughter - a la film. It's also innovative in that it can make people say pretentious bullshit like that they learned from their literature degrees that aren't getting them anywhere in life...

It's not so much innovative as it is something that games should learn from. I especially like the way choices are handled in that game and how they are entirely steeped in the mechanics of the game. Do you shoot people in the crowd to stop them or shoot your gun in the air to scare the off? The choice where you choose between the hanging men is particularly ingenious with its hidden choices.

I agree that it's something that games should learn from from a narrative and storytelling perspective but from a gameplay perspective it's still a fairly weak game. The mechanical choices of the story are fairly superficial in my opinion. It's a really minor addition considering the choices could just as easily been made through a choice menu with more or less the same impact. I think Papers, Please is probably a better example of gameplay-driven story consequence in video games, even if the result is quite different.

Hell, I just remembered MGS 3. You can, if you figure out that you can, kill The End in his wheelchair way before you fight him, negating an entire boss fight (not sure why you'd want to seeing as it's the best fight in the entire series). That's impactful gameplay mechanics if you ask me, if not ultimately story based to a large degree.
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Dima

Posts: 717

Age: 20
From: Australia

  22.01.2015 at 16:44
Written by whatsacow on 22.01.2015 at 15:15

The choice where you choose between the hanging men is particularly ingenious with its hidden choices.


This is a special moment. The fact that the choice is 'hidden' and not served on a platter (via button prompts) adds a lot of emotional weight to it. That's why it was effective unlike Bioshock Infinite's throw ball at biracial couple or announcer choice. That one felt...plastic...
IronAngel

Posts: 4453

Age: 25
From: Finland

  22.01.2015 at 18:01
I don't know if innovation is really worth considering as such. You can mention it in a game review, sure, but being innovative or being shalessly retro never made a game good or bad. In fact, a bad game can get unwarranted praise just because it does something new, in which case "innovation" is just a cover-up for mediocrity. Also, I'd much rather play the refined re-iteration of an idea than the rough first sketch.

That said, most of the games on whatsacow's list above are excellent. Innovation might play into it, but mostly it's a matter of overall great design.

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