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The original post

Posted by wormdrink414 on 04.03.2013 at 11:40
Finally playing Super Meat Boy after Humble Bundling it months ago. Love the speed of it all, good challenge. The warp worlds are a really excellent touch.



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IronAngel

Posts: 4393

Age: 25
From: Finland

  29.10.2014 at 02:19
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 28.10.2014 at 18:35

So you guys know i like old DOS games made in Build engine.I was playing around with PowerSlave ,Whichaven and Blood lately.Interesting stuff....


Cool. Coincidentally, I was visiting my friend today and he showed me some old game game boxes his wife had brought from her parents. One of them was Whichaven. Is it any good? May have to borrow it.

They also had the original Eye of the Beholder, which I absolutely want to borrow if they won't sell it to me. (No idea if I can get it working though.) Supposed to be an awesome game. Though if I was to play something similar from that era, I'd probably go for Lands of Lore, which some hail as the quintessential RPG of its era.
ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 3184

Age: 23
From: Serbia

  29.10.2014 at 17:58
Written by IronAngel on 29.10.2014 at 02:19

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 28.10.2014 at 18:35

So you guys know i like old DOS games made in Build engine.I was playing around with PowerSlave ,Whichaven and Blood lately.Interesting stuff....


Cool. Coincidentally, I was visiting my friend today and he showed me some old game game boxes his wife had brought from her parents. One of them was Whichaven. Is it any good? May have to borrow it.

They also had the original Eye of the Beholder, which I absolutely want to borrow if they won't sell it to me. (No idea if I can get it working though.) Supposed to be an awesome game. Though if I was to play something similar from that era, I'd probably go for Lands of Lore, which some hail as the quintessential RPG of its era.

well i played like 2 levels out of 24 so far.If you can go over some crappy hit detection and mid 90s controls (i mean set them properly in DosBox ) its interesting stuff.Its like slower Duke 3D, medieval FPS RPG-like dungeon crawler with melee weapons and spells .I will play a bit more but if you like old FPS games you give it a chance.
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"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
whatsacow

Posts: 2021

Age: 22
From: Australia

  31.10.2014 at 02:58
So. Um. An article I wrote got front paged on IGN and has 600 comments. Most of them are people telling me I should kill myself.

http://www.ign.com/blogs/whatsacow/2014/09/23/four-things-holding-gaming-back/

Oh well. Anyway I started playing WoW for some ungodly reason and now I can't stop.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
Dima

Posts: 571

Age: 20
From: Australia

  31.10.2014 at 06:23
Utilising cinematic techniques is fine if it's done correctly. Metal Gear does it fine because it doesn't compromise gameplay with cutscenes/QTEs. Below is an example of a franchise that doesn't do it well.
Before: http://i.minus.com/iPzU94YHHozWU.gif
After: http://i.minus.com/iXadkHEEF5KJf.gif

Your point about God of War is silly. You need to step back and realise what games essentially NEED: a fun factor. GoW franchise embodies this. Now, it might not hit the sweet spot for some but one cannot be taken seriously if they said the devs didn't execute it beautifully. Much like how one cannot say that The Last of Us' story wasn't executed well. Same applies to music. Take technical bands for example. Sure they might be extremely talented, but that's meaningless if it's not engaging and fun.

Generally speaking, there should be no limits to a game. Just make it fun. People took offense to the game Hatred. "It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." If the game is considered fun then it's a good game.

The only issue this creates is how we and games are perceived by non gamers. My parents hate VGs because they assume it's all about mindless violence. However i'm not gonna let the industry sacrifice my fun for their approval.
Mattybu

Posts: 2397
From: Canada

  31.10.2014 at 07:14
Written by Dima on 31.10.2014 at 06:23

Generally speaking, there should be no limits to a game. Just make it fun. People took offense to the game Hatred. "It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." If the game is considered fun then it's a good game.


I find your comments here highly offensive
Dima

Posts: 571

Age: 20
From: Australia

  31.10.2014 at 07:19
Written by Mattybu on 31.10.2014 at 07:14

Written by Dima on 31.10.2014 at 06:23

Generally speaking, there should be no limits to a game. Just make it fun. People took offense to the game Hatred. "It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." If the game is considered fun then it's a good game.


I find your comments here highly offensive


u best fek up m8
IronAngel

Posts: 4393

Age: 25
From: Finland

  31.10.2014 at 14:12
I agree that some game developers have been relying on cinematics over gameplay and player input too much, but I don't think your blog quite hits the mark. I mean, sure, there are issues related to the things you mentioned, but I'm not sure how well you've identified current trends in gaming. The tired argument about graphics is old, graphics have improved constantly, and then you base it on something like this: "The last two generations of gaming have brought about two main improvements: the amount of content that can be squeezed into a disk, and graphical updates." Like, what? The last few years have seen the rise of indie games with budget graphics and the re-release of retro games. Minecraft is one of the most popular games right now. Icewind Dale Enhanced Edition was released yesterday. Have a look at the top sellers on Steam. And as for the amount of content in a disk, what are you smoking? The trend lately has been precisely to cut the content, sell it as DLCs and end up with a game half the size of its predecessors. Just compare the miniaturisation of TES from Daggerfall to Morrowind to Skyrim, or the small maps, lack of customisation and the linear, pathetically branching storyline of Mass Effect to Fallout 2.

So while the general sentiment is appreciated, I don't think the blog showed a very accurate or relevant analysis of modern gaming. In general, it seemed as if AAA titles are your only frame of reference.
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 38479

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  01.11.2014 at 16:11
Anyonone plays Mafia II ?

is there news about mafia III?

in Mafia II , I saw in Youtube that there is free ride, how can I get it?

I just collect most wanted posters, and doing play boy mags.

Well flying car was pain in the ass I need 4h to do it get on the roof and get that damn poster, now I have all, damn guy who made in YT has diferent numbers as official mafia, and it was hard Ctr?Alt?Del lool at Yt how to get, look at map, small one online, and search It tock me one damn week /weak , I love Mafia and Mafia II I have played both many times. now I do this one

is there any other secret gliches what I can have and maybe open some shit if I do some help out

Medal of Honor latest looks cool, maybe I will buy it
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
whatsacow

Posts: 2021

Age: 22
From: Australia

  05.11.2014 at 03:10
Written by Dima on 31.10.2014 at 06:23

Utilising cinematic techniques is fine if it's done correctly. Metal Gear does it fine because it doesn't compromise gameplay with cutscenes/QTEs. Below is an example of a franchise that doesn't do it well.
Before: http://i.minus.com/iPzU94YHHozWU.gif
After: http://i.minus.com/iXadkHEEF5KJf.gif

Your point about God of War is silly. You need to step back and realise what games essentially NEED: a fun factor. GoW franchise embodies this. Now, it might not hit the sweet spot for some but one cannot be taken seriously if they said the devs didn't execute it beautifully. Much like how one cannot say that The Last of Us' story wasn't executed well. Same applies to music. Take technical bands for example. Sure they might be extremely talented, but that's meaningless if it's not engaging and fun.

Generally speaking, there should be no limits to a game. Just make it fun. People took offense to the game Hatred. "It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what." If the game is considered fun then it's a good game.

The only issue this creates is how we and games are perceived by non gamers. My parents hate VGs because they assume it's all about mindless violence. However i'm not gonna let the industry sacrifice my fun for their approval.

What do you mean it doesn't sacrifice cutscenes for gameplay? Have you played MGS4? It's 90% fucking cutscenes.

Secondly, the state of video games as a storytelling medium is rubbish. You can't say it's not. They're poorly paced, are too violent, and most game stories suck ass. Even the Last of Us does to a degree. It's a story we've seen a million times in movies, but it's in a game now so it's so unique.

I mean, yes, God of War is fun. We need games like that. But we need diversity. We have dumb games. We have pretentious art games. But we haven't really reached that sweet spot in the middle between fun AND artsy.

"There should be no limits to gaming." Have you played Rapelay?
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
whatsacow

Posts: 2021

Age: 22
From: Australia

  05.11.2014 at 03:11
Written by IronAngel on 31.10.2014 at 14:12

I agree that some game developers have been relying on cinematics over gameplay and player input too much, but I don't think your blog quite hits the mark. I mean, sure, there are issues related to the things you mentioned, but I'm not sure how well you've identified current trends in gaming. The tired argument about graphics is old, graphics have improved constantly, and then you base it on something like this: "The last two generations of gaming have brought about two main improvements: the amount of content that can be squeezed into a disk, and graphical updates." Like, what? The last few years have seen the rise of indie games with budget graphics and the re-release of retro games. Minecraft is one of the most popular games right now. Icewind Dale Enhanced Edition was released yesterday. Have a look at the top sellers on Steam. And as for the amount of content in a disk, what are you smoking? The trend lately has been precisely to cut the content, sell it as DLCs and end up with a game half the size of its predecessors. Just compare the miniaturisation of TES from Daggerfall to Morrowind to Skyrim, or the small maps, lack of customisation and the linear, pathetically branching storyline of Mass Effect to Fallout 2.

So while the general sentiment is appreciated, I don't think the blog showed a very accurate or relevant analysis of modern gaming. In general, it seemed as if AAA titles are your only frame of reference.

Yes. Well, that's IGN's fault for front paging a blog I wrote 2 years ago.
----
When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
Dima

Posts: 571

Age: 20
From: Australia

  05.11.2014 at 04:14
Written by whatsacow on 05.11.2014 at 03:10


What do you mean it doesn't sacrifice cutscenes for gameplay? Have you played MGS4? It's 90% fucking cutscenes.

Secondly, the state of video games as a storytelling medium is rubbish. You can't say it's not. They're poorly paced, are too violent, and most game stories suck ass. Even the Last of Us does to a degree. It's a story we've seen a million times in movies, but it's in a game now so it's so unique.

I mean, yes, God of War is fun. We need games like that. But we need diversity. We have dumb games. We have pretentious art games. But we haven't really reached that sweet spot in the middle between fun AND artsy.

"There should be no limits to gaming." Have you played Rapelay?


1)I thought MGS 4 had a manageable balance. To each their own.

2)I'm all for better story driven games too but using God of War to sell your point was silly. People calling The Last of Us unique are stupid. I don't think you can hate on the execution of the story, but you can certainly hate on the story premise.

3)I'm fine with games being as offensive as possible as long as they uphold fun factor. Rapelay does not look fun in the slightest.
whatsacow

Posts: 2021

Age: 22
From: Australia

  05.11.2014 at 04:45
Written by Dima on 05.11.2014 at 04:14

Written by whatsacow on 05.11.2014 at 03:10


What do you mean it doesn't sacrifice cutscenes for gameplay? Have you played MGS4? It's 90% fucking cutscenes.

Secondly, the state of video games as a storytelling medium is rubbish. You can't say it's not. They're poorly paced, are too violent, and most game stories suck ass. Even the Last of Us does to a degree. It's a story we've seen a million times in movies, but it's in a game now so it's so unique.

I mean, yes, God of War is fun. We need games like that. But we need diversity. We have dumb games. We have pretentious art games. But we haven't really reached that sweet spot in the middle between fun AND artsy.

"There should be no limits to gaming." Have you played Rapelay?


1)I thought MGS 4 had a manageable balance. To each their own.

2)I'm all for better story driven games too but using God of War to sell your point was silly. People calling The Last of Us unique are stupid. I don't think you can hate on the execution of the story, but you can certainly hate on the story premise.

3)I'm fine with games being as offensive as possible as long as they uphold fun factor. Rapelay does not look fun in the slightest.


1) MGS4 has a cutscene that is over an hour long.
2) Why shouldn't we hate on execution? That's the main thing that makes something suck. If it has a cool idea but is executed poorly, it sucks harder than a bland idea executed excellently.
3) Rapelay would be fun for some people. Fun is subjective. Serial killers find murder fun.
----
When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
Mattybu

Posts: 2397
From: Canada

  05.11.2014 at 05:28
Written by Dima on 05.11.2014 at 04:14

I thought MGS 4 had a manageable balance.


I agree. Wouldn't have been the same without them, I didn't even end up skipping any as I played through.
Dima

Posts: 571

Age: 20
From: Australia

  05.11.2014 at 05:41
Written by whatsacow on 05.11.2014 at 04:45



1) MGS4 has a cutscene that is over an hour long.
2) Why shouldn't we hate on execution? That's the main thing that makes something suck. If it has a cool idea but is executed poorly, it sucks harder than a bland idea executed excellently.
3) Rapelay would be fun for some people. Fun is subjective. Serial killers find murder fun.


I never said we shouldn't hate on execution.

Of course it will be considered fun by someone. I'm talking subjectively here. Hatred looks fun, i'm no serial killer. Rapelay doesn't.
whatsacow

Posts: 2021

Age: 22
From: Australia

  05.11.2014 at 10:05
Written by Dima on 05.11.2014 at 05:41

Written by whatsacow on 05.11.2014 at 04:45



1) MGS4 has a cutscene that is over an hour long.
2) Why shouldn't we hate on execution? That's the main thing that makes something suck. If it has a cool idea but is executed poorly, it sucks harder than a bland idea executed excellently.
3) Rapelay would be fun for some people. Fun is subjective. Serial killers find murder fun.


I never said we shouldn't hate on execution.

Of course it will be considered fun by someone. I'm talking subjectively here. Hatred looks fun, i'm no serial killer. Rapelay doesn't.

"I don't think you can hate on the execution of the story, but you can certainly hate on the story premise." Nope, you never said it at all :p
----
When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
Dima

Posts: 571

Age: 20
From: Australia

  05.11.2014 at 10:40
Written by whatsacow on 05.11.2014 at 10:05


"I don't think you can hate on the execution of the story, but you can certainly hate on the story premise." Nope, you never said it at all :p


Uhh lol that's different? In my original post i'm specifically referring to TLoU. Hating on execution is fine but I think it's very very hard to find any major faults in TLoU's execution. The idea/story, sure it might not be your cup of tea but the execution was objectively near to faultless.
whatsacow

Posts: 2021

Age: 22
From: Australia

  05.11.2014 at 11:11
Written by Dima on 05.11.2014 at 10:40

Written by whatsacow on 05.11.2014 at 10:05


"I don't think you can hate on the execution of the story, but you can certainly hate on the story premise." Nope, you never said it at all :p


Uhh lol that's different? In my original post i'm specifically referring to TLoU. Hating on execution is fine but I think it's very very hard to find any major faults in TLoU's execution. The idea/story, sure it might not be your cup of tea but the execution was objectively near to faultless.

Nope. I wrote an article specifically about this. So it's not objective. Sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, and I'm not meaning anything harsh by it. Here's the article in case you want to read it: http://plus10damage.com/blog/2014/8/26/video-games-are-too-long
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
Dima

Posts: 571

Age: 20
From: Australia

  05.11.2014 at 11:35
Written by whatsacow on 05.11.2014 at 11:11

Written by Dima on 05.11.2014 at 10:40

Written by whatsacow on 05.11.2014 at 10:05


"I don't think you can hate on the execution of the story, but you can certainly hate on the story premise." Nope, you never said it at all :p


Uhh lol that's different? In my original post i'm specifically referring to TLoU. Hating on execution is fine but I think it's very very hard to find any major faults in TLoU's execution. The idea/story, sure it might not be your cup of tea but the execution was objectively near to faultless.

Nope. I wrote an article specifically about this. So it's not objective. Sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, and I'm not meaning anything harsh by it. Here's the article in case you want to read it: http://plus10damage.com/blog/2014/8/26/video-games-are-too-long


won't load D;
whatsacow

Posts: 2021

Age: 22
From: Australia

  05.11.2014 at 12:07
Written by Dima on 05.11.2014 at 11:35

Written by whatsacow on 05.11.2014 at 11:11

Written by Dima on 05.11.2014 at 10:40

Written by whatsacow on 05.11.2014 at 10:05


"I don't think you can hate on the execution of the story, but you can certainly hate on the story premise." Nope, you never said it at all :p


Uhh lol that's different? In my original post i'm specifically referring to TLoU. Hating on execution is fine but I think it's very very hard to find any major faults in TLoU's execution. The idea/story, sure it might not be your cup of tea but the execution was objectively near to faultless.

Nope. I wrote an article specifically about this. So it's not objective. Sorry, I'm not trying to be a dick or anything, and I'm not meaning anything harsh by it. Here's the article in case you want to read it: http://plus10damage.com/blog/2014/8/26/video-games-are-too-long


won't load D;

Huh. It loads for me... maybe this? http://plus10damage.com/blog/?author=50ff8a09e4b047a6c79c5236#show-archive

Scroll down to The Last of Us and Problematic Video Game Length.

Anyway, if you can't get it the general gist is I think it's a bit too long and that in term diminishes some of the impact the story has. I argue it better in the article though haha
----
When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 15457

Age: 30
From: UK

  05.11.2014 at 13:46
In a climate where the vast majority of consumers complain that games are too short I clearly don't think games being too long is an issue. Only rarely does that issue crop up, such as Alien Isolation where heavy repetition sets in, both in plot mechanics and gameplay. I personally don't think games are too short considering most SNES and Genesis games could be completed in under an hour and used to cost more than games did now (in the UK they used to retail at £40 - £60, which adjusted for inflation would make games £70+ in this day and age), but I certainly don't think games are too long either, with the possible exception of some open-ended games like Skyrim which don't fill their worlds with enough to justify the size. You also don't have to play through a game in one sitting so I don't get the argument that people don't have the time for it, and I personally don't think one has to complete a game to enjoy it either.

I would also argue that the gameplay MGS4 is far more involving than GoW, which to me is still gameplay-lite. Granted, there are hours of exposition and story telling in MGS4 but you have the option to skip that if you so desire.

The fact we're in an age where dozens of short, arty, story-minimal indie games are being released on a monthly basis highlights that video games can tackle gameplay, story and length from most angles. If you're sitting around waiting for a perfect fusion of filmic, cinematic story telling and video game mechanics then I doubt you will ever be satisfied as they're two totally separate mediums being used in tandem (hence why video game-based films are almost universally rubbish as well). However some games do it reasonably well and manage to find an acceptable balance. As I said though, you can always skip the story. I also don't think this idea of a perfect cinematic narrative in a video game is attainable either because gaming and films are two separate mediums, as I said, one of which is a static medium where interpretation is key, the other is gaming which is fundamentally based on interaction. You can have Mass Effect and MGS which does an acceptable job of creating a gameplay universe with story elements derived from film making conventions, or you can have Planescape: Torment which is far more book-like than anything else. What we have is so far is fine, even though it does often fail. That discontinuity between observing and action is always going to be in video games though. If you're going to complain that there has to be breaks in the story to kill some enemies then gaming is perhaps not what you wanted at that juncture. Don't expect 'Synecdoche, New York - The Video Game' to ever be a reality though.

Also, if you're waiting for the perfect synergy of fun and artsy then you might want to consider other mediums, because I don't think fun has ever really been associated with art entertaining and artsy is a far more palatable proposition (Okami, SotC, Dark Souls, any number of indie platformers or ambient gameplay games like Flower, walking simulators etc). There's plenty of it around. You've even got political / social commentary in the form of Papers, Please. Then you also have the de-constructive gaming satire, or whatever it is, of The Stanley Parable. What more do you want?

Is violence an issue? Depends on your stand point really. On one end of the spectrum you have Manhunt, Postal, Hatred etc. which are generally accepted by many as "going too far" but this raises the question of the use of violence in video games and unfortunately If you're going to say violence is a problem then you have discount almost every great game ever made, or a good majority. Zelda is violent. Final Fantasy is violent, Okami is violent. Dark Souls is violent. If you can find a way to justify the act of mass murder in those games that aren't just superficial comments about necessity and requirement wrapped around a cosmetic narrative then you would have a leg to stand on but I'd be surprised if you could. Is the concious, explicit act of killing in GTA worse than the passive, unthinking murder in a Final Fantasy game? Isn't it just hypocrisy to blame games like that because they make us aware of what we usually do in video games without even thinking about it? Personally I don't think it's a problem simply for the reason it's been more or less proven than violence in video games does not influence people into commiting violent acts. And from the argument that it's just lazy video gaming to include violence I think if you abolished it you would have to wave goodbye to most genres of video game and it would leave a pretty barren landscape of gaming experiences.

The real issues of games at the moment, to me, lie in production practices like day one / on the disc DLC, early access alphas which never get finished, development and public relation buffoonery like trying to pass off 30fps games being more "cinemetic" etc. and obviously female representation is a pretty big kettle of fish right now. There is a lack of ideas in gaming mechanics in some of the bigger titles as well of course.
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whatsacow

Posts: 2021

Age: 22
From: Australia

  05.11.2014 at 15:51
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 05.11.2014 at 13:46

Well thought out but super long argument.

Okay. So I'm not really arguing that games in general are too long. I'm arguing that if a game has a substantial narrative element then it can be hurt by being too long. It's more of a pacing issue than anything, and if you want to tell a meaningful story like The Last of Us did, you should take length into consideration and consider how it could hurt the experience. If a film can be too long, so too can a narrative driven game. A game that's entirely about gameplay? That can be as long as it damn well pleases as long as it remains consistently engaging, and if it's not, you should maybe cut out the filler.

In The Last of Us there was filler. There were parts of that game that seemed to exist only to make it a 15 hour game so people wouldn't shy away from putting their money down. In Bioshock, half the fucking game was filler (exaggeration for effect. It's fucking stupid that you have to point that out to some retards (sorry autistic/down syndromey cunts/Hiroshima survivors - just in case you don't like the 'r' word) on the internet). There are tons of narrative focused games that don't live up to their full potential because they aren't considering how length and pacing effects their storytelling abilities.

And I know awesome indie games exist, but they have their problems too. They are often more "me too" than their triple a brethren, jumping on the retro bandwagon to cash in on nostalgia.

Violence isn't an issue. I love ultra-violence. It's fucking awesome. The issue I have is that it's the primary mechanic of the video game industry. I would like to see hardcore games that isn't Portal or Catherine use something other than violence as it's central mechanic. The thing about violence is the more often you see it, the less awesome it becomes. The violent scenes in Drive, Breaking Bad, District 9, or Game of Thrones is awesome because it isn't happening all the time. There's build up. There's tension. The violence is the release. I feel like more games should adopt this attitude. Not every game, just more.

Now here's the thing. I don't hate the state of games. I love it. I doubt there's been a better time than ever to be a gamer. There is more variety now than ever. Some of the best games of all time have been released in the past 6 or 7 years. The indie scene has been providing a great counter point to the bloated triple a industry.

I love gaming, and it's what you love the most that you criticise. As much as I love the medium, I feel like it has so much room to improve. I'm not trying to say games are bad or that everything sucks and we should burn all games because they don't meet my high standards. I'm just saying games should be more, and why shouldn't we discuss that?

Btw, I'm hypocrite, because top 10 games are from 1-10: Dark Souls, Resident Evil 4, Metal Gear Solid 3, Silent Hill 3, Doom II, Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines, Thomas Was Alone, Skate 3, Portal, and Abe's Exoddus.

So yeah, I like schlocky ultra-violence and dumb fun as much as the next guy, but games can be more.

---edit---
Also, yeah I know that article is outdated. I wrote it 2 years ago for 1up, and then reposted it on MyIGN for the hell of it. It got front paged for some reason haha.
----
When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 15457

Age: 30
From: UK

  05.11.2014 at 16:24
I can't help but wonder if your gripe is that AAA games aren't taking the form of indie games, and that the games you desire don't interest a larger demographic. You say games can be so much more but as we've both highlighted: they are. It just so happens that they aren't big budget games. It would be financial suicide to spend the budget of a AAA game on something with esoteric storytelling, experimental gameplay mechanics, subversive or cerebral subject matter, etc. because it would be a disaster for the developer. I'd love Beyond The Black Rainbow to be shown in every cinema in the country but no one would bother going to see it. Probably why it didn't have the budget of a Transformers film. I feel like more than ever violence is becoming a less-relied on trope in video games, it just so happens that it's smaller games that do it. You can't change people. You can't force them to be interested in something they're not and unfortunately the industry has to move in those circles and violence is something that sells.

I'm not sure where this happy medium between gameplay mechanics and considered violence is supposed to be though. I think you might be thinking too much into film conventions and tropes to the point where there's no happy middle ground that involves video games. I personally don't feel like death is being overused in storytelling right now. I agree that many narratives are generic and use death as a plot device too commonly but I don't think the problem is the use of death and violence itself, rather it's a more basic problem with constructing good stories.

I should say now that I haven't played The Last of Us. From what I gather though issues with the story is not an argument I've yet seen, in fact the consensus seems to be that it's almost a water-mark for story telling in games so I have to wonder if your pacing concerns is minor nitpicking. I've played Uncharted 2 and found that the only thing it really had going for it was the story (generic but well told and paced). I had far more concerns with the gameplay itself. I have similar issues with the Bioshock games in terms of gameplay, in that it was frightfully generic and repetitive, but I also had a personal gripe with the way the narrative was presented through tapes and such, which I couldn't engage with. Ultimately though I would say the key problem with those games was the gameplay itself, not the story. I'm inclined to think I may feel the same about The Last of Us.

Really though I don't think an imperfect story and a few pacing issues is really enough to ruin a game. Alien Isolation is a good recent example. The story was absolute junk yet it was enough to set a scene and allow the player to revel in the atmosphere. On the flip side Silent Hill 2 had some of the worst gameplay a game could have because it was practically superficial and unnecessary, yet survived as a classic because of the story and atmosphere. I'm not sure what my point is exactly, probably that games can be more than the sum of their parts, including pacing issues and questionable use of violence as a narrative device.
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IronAngel

Posts: 4393

Age: 25
From: Finland

  05.11.2014 at 16:38
What are you people's favorite-ever games, by the way? Top 10 or 5 or 25 or whatever. It's interesting to see where people are coming from, and it's also a fun way to get inspired to play stuff I may have missed.
!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 15457

Age: 30
From: UK

  05.11.2014 at 17:31
It's difficult to write a list to be honest. Every time I start I just end up putting dozens from each generation, even though many of them are games I'll probably never play again but rather just end up watching on Youtube. It's mostly console RPGs, which would probably make a pretty boring list in the end.
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whatsacow

Posts: 2021

Age: 22
From: Australia

  05.11.2014 at 18:45
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 05.11.2014 at 16:24

More great arguments

I think we need more in between. As much as Ubisoft can piss me off as a PC gamer, they have the right idea by having an "indie" team they give less money (but still more than most indie devs) to who can test out new ideas and see how well they do. We need more AA instead of AAA.

And I think it could be done. I think some games in the horror genre are doing it quite well already. Imagine something like Amnesia where for the first hour it's just exploration. When you do meet them, at first all you can do is run and hide, but then after a while you get a weapon. There's a tense gun battle followed by one small explosion of gore. That violence would have impact, since the player wasn't used to it. It would be shocking, and it would stick with you. Like the aftermath of the the ticket thing (I should not be allowed to type at 3am) in Bioshock Infinite, but towards the end or middle of the game, and without everything else that sucked about Bioshock Infinite.

The Last of Us is good. It has some fantastically tense moments, 2 scenes where I literally cried, some great character moments, and well executed ending that divides its audience. I say it's too long because the ending would have had more impact had it have come sooner. If it wasn't bound to the conventions of gameplay where it's forced to have a difficult section at the end that ruins the narrative pacing, forces you to do it over and over again so that you're too frustrated to really take in the ending. And that last area of The Last of Us really does suck ass. And the tunnel section before the end could have easily been cut as it just adds one more stealth section, a meh boss fight, and a fucking water platform puzzle - the same one you'd already done 90 times in the campaign already.

Anyway there was a point to this but I'm ranting so I think I'll go to bed.
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When God made up the golden rule, do you think he noticed that it condones rape?
Dima

Posts: 571

Age: 20
From: Australia

  06.11.2014 at 01:50
For a dev, just getting a middle ground and picking your moments is tough. The combat section at the end could be there to signify the importance of Ellie as a specimen to the world. If it wasn't there, people would question the ease at which you entered and escaped the building with her. For me though the only section that definitely should not existed was the bandit invasion in the house right after you catch up with Ellie on your horse.

-Call of Duty 4
-Crash Bash
-Dark Souls
-Deus Ex 1
-Final Fantasy X
-Gran Turismo 3
-Kingdom Hearts
-Metal Gear Solid 3
-Need for Speed Most Wanted 2005
-The Witcher 1
Mattybu

Posts: 2397
From: Canada

  06.11.2014 at 06:47
Written by IronAngel on 05.11.2014 at 16:38

What are you people's favorite-ever games, by the way? Top 10 or 5 or 25 or whatever. It's interesting to see where people are coming from, and it's also a fun way to get inspired to play stuff I may have missed.


1. Shadow of the Colossus
1. SHADOW OF THE MOTHERFUCKING COLOSSUS
2. Pokemon Blue Version
3. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater
3 (tie). Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat
4. Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando
5. Pokemon Pearl Version
6. Killzone 2
7. ICO
8. 1. Shadow of the Colossus
8. Fallout 3
9. Battlefield Bad Company 2
10. Chrono Trigger
11. Super Smash Bros. Brawl
12. World of Warcraft (probably have spent more hours on this than any other game despite it being 12)
13. Mario Kart DS
14. Mega Man: Dr. Wily's Revenge
15. Flower
16. God of War III

(probably forgot something and most of them's positions could change a bit)

I doubt this list will do you much good as far as finding stuff you like goes, that's where it's at doe.

EDIT: yep forgot GHIII and GH Metallica, they belong there somewhere too. Star Wars Battlefront too. And Animal Crossing: City Folk, LoZ Twilight Princess, DEAD SPACE (!!!!!!), UNCHARTED 1&2 (!!!!!!!), Roller Coaster Tycoon, Resistance 3. SUPER MARIO STRIKERS. and Final Fantasy IV. Probably more too.
Dima

Posts: 571

Age: 20
From: Australia

  06.11.2014 at 09:15
I love how after all that talk I forgot God of War 2 ;_;
Deadsoulman
Bubblefucked

Posts: 7543

Age: 32
From: France

  06.11.2014 at 13:36
Written by IronAngel on 05.11.2014 at 16:38

What are you people's favorite-ever games, by the way? Top 10 or 5 or 25 or whatever. It's interesting to see where people are coming from, and it's also a fun way to get inspired to play stuff I may have missed.


Just for the fun of it, because I doubt you'll find a lot of original or super obscure stuff in there - I admit I'm a pretty mainstream gamer - but here's a list. Positions after top 3 don't mean anything:
1. A Link To The Past
2. Okami
3. Final Fantasy X
Super Mario Bros. 3
Portal II
Dishonored
Arkham City
Donkey Kong Country
Heroes Of Might And Magic III (lost a year to this game)
Final Fantasy VII (would have taken X's spot a few years ago but playing it recently made me realize how clunky some parts are and how tedious side quests are - I guess you could say the same for any FF game, but it didn't bother me that much in X or even VIII)
999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors
Super Mario 64
Super Mario Kart (the one on SNES, though I could have picked the one on N64)
Metroid (the first one on NES)
Kid Icarus

I recently started playing Demon's Souls, which I think could earn a pretty high spot in the list once I get the hang of it and manage not to die every 2 minutes Gameplay is brilliant and I love the general atmosphere of the game (especially the feeling of absolute loneliness you get when you land in Boletarian Palace for the first time).
IronAngel

Posts: 4393

Age: 25
From: Finland

  06.11.2014 at 14:04
There's plenty of stuff I have never played on your lists - mostly because my latest console was PS2, admittedly, so I haven't had the chance. Thanks. I'll have a think about my list, though it's pretty inclined towards RPG and strategy.

Man I want to get Crash Bash again.

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