I've got a friend that I hadn't seen for a while but who's recently gotten into extreme metal (black, brutal death, etc.). He sort of wants to talk metal with me, but I prefer the more melodic stuff (i.e. Power Metal). While he's found a few Power Metal songs that he likes, he generally hates the whole subgenre because it's too ridiculous (a valid argument). I suggested that he should look into Kamelot, but he blew it off, probably because of the name of the band.

My question actually has nothing to do with my friend, but it did make me think for a minute. Based on my minor wanderings of metal web sites, I've been given the impression that even fans of the blackest and/or most brutal metal bands generally like Kamelot (personally, I think my friend is just being lame). Of course, Kamelot isn't your stereotypical Power Metal group, which may be a major reason why it's praised by metalheads of all types.

In any case, all this thinking has led me to ask you guys this question: Despite your preferences for Extreme Metal, what Power Metal bands DO you like, and why?

EDIT: Looking over the thread and thinking about it a little more, perhaps I'm trying to ask a different question: What Power Metal band, regardless of metal preferences, can everyone agree on? If not a band, then what albums? I think that's why I focused on Kamelot because they have (had?) the styles often found in FlowerCore while still being a very quality metal band as a whole. (Maybe this thread should be moved to general metal?)

I like a huge range of power metal and extreme metal, look at my band list. I gues sometimes i like something soft, sometimes something that makes me feel empowered.

Even if I prefer the extremes genres in metal, there is still alot of power stuff I like. Basically cos when I started listening metal it was either power or classic heavy, and I still appreciate some of those bands that got me into metal.

As for your friend, I wouldn't try giving him Kamelot or "typical" power metal band. I'd go with old Helloween, old Blind Guardian or anything that's between speed and power... or even thrashy power stuff like Liege Lord.

Can't say I prefer extreme over power metal or vice versa. It would be interesting to see whether what a fan of more extreme metal finds listenable from the power metal genre is necessarily the same as what a power metal fan would call 'extreme' within the genre.

Some of my favourite 'extreme' bands within the power metal genre would be those which use some sort of thrashy edge such as Morgana Lefay, Angel Dust and Nevermore

Bal-Sagoth is also worth mentioning for black metal fans

Well Idk, when I think of Extreme Power Metal, what comes in mind first is the whole Folk Scene and some bands that fits the power genre like, Kalmah, Wintersun, Children Of Bodom. Idk, I find them melodic and extreme at the same time.

Meh on Kamelot and not a fan of anything generally considered power metal... has nothing to do with being "too extreme" or anything, i dig a lot of music outside metal of varying tempos, complexity, emotion, and artistic approaches... i just don't particularly care for power metal at all.

I . . . hate to break the flow of my own thread but I feel like we're getting off topic. I wasn't specifically talking about Extreme Power or Power/Thrash as I was talking about Flower Core. I guess I was looking for something more of a confessional where despite all that you hate about Flower Core, there is a Power Metal band or two that you do like. I wanted to know if between Agalloch and Arsis you had a slice of Amberian Dawn.

I guess it makes sense that those who are dedicated to extreme metal would like fusions between extreme and non-extreme styles. I was simply using Kamelot as an example of a band that may use the same ideas as DragonForce and the like but is capable of drawing upon a bigger audience than just Power Metal fans. Or so I'm supposing.

Sure, I listen to power metal as well as the more extreme stuff.

Just this weekend, I had Nevermore and Helloween in the car one day and then Wormrot in the car the next. I like almost all genres of metal and each for a different reason and each for the same reason I like metal.

Some power metal bands I like include Helloween, Sonata Arctica, Blind Guardian and Rhapsody. However, I don't necessarily think there are any power metal bands that have the magic of appealing someone who is only into brutal/extreme metal.

Written by Guest on 07.09.2011 at 05:33

Sure, I listen to power metal as well as the more extreme stuff.

Just this weekend, I had Nevermore and Helloween in the car one day and then Wormrot in the car the next. I like almost all genres of metal and each for a different reason and each for the same reason I like metal.

Some power metal bands I like include Helloween, Sonata Arctica, Blind Guardian and Rhapsody. However, I don't necessarily think there are any power metal bands that have the magic of appealing someone who is only into brutal/extreme metal.

well yes there is like I said... Kalmah, Wintersun, Children Of Bodom, Finntroll, Striker (Yeah yeah I know they're not really power metal) but I think its close enough for the extreme people.

I listened to extreme metal before I got into power metal. The way to the genre was through the extreme power metal bands, Children of Bodom and Norther.

Written by Guib on 07.09.2011 at 15:17

Written by Guest on 07.09.2011 at 05:33

Sure, I listen to power metal as well as the more extreme stuff.

Just this weekend, I had Nevermore and Helloween in the car one day and then Wormrot in the car the next. I like almost all genres of metal and each for a different reason and each for the same reason I like metal.

Some power metal bands I like include Helloween, Sonata Arctica, Blind Guardian and Rhapsody. However, I don't necessarily think there are any power metal bands that have the magic of appealing someone who is only into brutal/extreme metal.

well yes there is like I said... Kalmah, Wintersun, Children Of Bodom, Finntroll, Striker (Yeah yeah I know they're not really power metal) but I think its close enough for the extreme people.

If you would read the topic author's posts you would see that he specifically said he was not referring to extreme power metal but plain old power metal.

I agree there isn't a power metal band that will magically help your friend. I definitely understand wanting to have a good metal conversation with a friend. Just like any other music, he will either get into it or he won't. It took me a while to get into power metal. Now I am a huge fan. My first power favorites were Kamelot ( I know he listened to them, but I'd have him spit Black Halo again), Nocturnal Rites and Twilighting. I suppose averting his attention to nonpower metal bands (yet similar) like Nevermore, Dream Theater, Kalisia, Evergrey or Wintersun might widen his scope for musical appreciation towards power metal. I think progressive metal was actually my gateway to power metal. That's just me though.

What are a couple of his favorite black/ death bands?

Lots of US Power Metal bands are influenced by traditional Thrash Metal....

Written by Carrion Misery on 08.09.2011 at 18:15

I agree there isn't a power metal band that will magically help your friend. I definitely understand wanting to have a good metal conversation with a friend. Just like any other music, he will either get into it or he won't. It took me a while to get into power metal. Now I am a huge fan. My first power favorites were Kamelot ( I know he listened to them, but I'd have him spit Black Halo again), Nocturnal Rites and Twilighting. I suppose averting his attention to nonpower metal bands (yet similar) like Nevermore, Dream Theater, Kalisia, Evergrey or Wintersun might widen his scope for musical appreciation towards power metal. I think progressive metal was actually my gateway to power metal. That's just me though.

What are a couple of his favorite black/ death bands?

To be honest, I have no interest in "converting" my friend. He's a stubborn and arrogant fellow who insists that he's right about everything, so I've basically learned to expect nothing but blind bias from him. He simply was the spark that led to the question in general.

I guess I had invented an assumption that most fans of extreme metal had a "death to flower metal" kind of mentality and I was looking for those who had an exception for that perspective. However, as I'm quickly learning, the folks here at Metal Storm are more open-minded than I gave them credit for and maybe I should apologize for that.

Nah, I never saw it as trying to convert him. That would entail he would switch to power metal and not listen to death metal anymore. Which wouldn't be good. Nothing wrong with trying to open a friend to new music. I can understand the assumption that fans of death metal would hate power metal. It does get annoying when bullheaded people won't listen. I hate when I try to get my friends who only listen to Pantera, Slayer and Machine Head to check out Behemoth, Nevermore or Kamelot. They're like, "Eh, Jeff Loomis is ok I guess. He's no Dime Bag...". At that point all I can say is "kiss my ass".

Like most genres distant from each other on the metal spectrum, they're all mostly acquired tastes.

Generally power metal from the US is much better than the European, extremely cheesy kind. I'd suggest Helstar as a good starting point. Get "A Distant Thunder" and "Nosferatu".

I started into metal with power metal, moved onto all the other genres later on and have broken most of my ties to power metal by now. Bands I still enjoy however are Blind Guardian, Kamelot, Lost Horizon and those with a thrashy edge or dark tone such as Iced Earth, Nevermore, Manticora (click me) and Symphorce (me too).

But I'll have to disappoint you, I certainly won't have any Amberian Dawn between any two bands. I don't mind classically trained voices, but those are just annoying.

Written by Guest on 07.09.2011 at 20:32

Written by Guib on 07.09.2011 at 15:17

Written by Guest on 07.09.2011 at 05:33

Sure, I listen to power metal as well as the more extreme stuff.

Just this weekend, I had Nevermore and Helloween in the car one day and then Wormrot in the car the next. I like almost all genres of metal and each for a different reason and each for the same reason I like metal.

Some power metal bands I like include Helloween, Sonata Arctica, Blind Guardian and Rhapsody. However, I don't necessarily think there are any power metal bands that have the magic of appealing someone who is only into brutal/extreme metal.

well yes there is like I said... Kalmah, Wintersun, Children Of Bodom, Finntroll, Striker (Yeah yeah I know they're not really power metal) but I think its close enough for the extreme people.

If you would read the topic author's posts you would see that he specifically said he was not referring to extreme power metal but plain old power metal.

Well then it just doesnt exist

Written by Promonex on 09.09.2011 at 15:45

I started into metal with power metal, moved onto all the other genres later on and have broken most of my ties to power metal by now. Bands I still enjoy however are Blind Guardian, Kamelot, Lost Horizon and those with a thrashy edge or dark tone such as Iced Earth, Nevermore, Manticora (click me) and Symphorce (me too).

But I'll have to disappoint you, I certainly won't have any Amberian Dawn between any two bands. I don't mind classically trained voices, but those are just annoying.

This is kind of what I was talking about. If I could pick you, good sir, I'd like to ask you a few questions.

1. You state that you "have broken most of [your] ties to power metal." How and why did that happen?
2. Why only "most of [your] ties?" Why not all of them?
3. Why do you still like Blind Guardian and Kamelot when you've generally given up power metal?

Understand that you don't have to answer ANY of these questions. I'd hate to think that I'm pressuring you. However, this is the kind of thing I wanted to dig into.

Well, I moved on, broadened my horizon, found more interesting stuff in other genres, so only the cream of the crop remained in my playlists. Back then I was roaming Audioscrobbler (now Last.fm) and Audiogalaxy (sued by the RIAA in 2002) for new music, searching for stuff similar to the few metal artists I knew and enjoyed back then, namely Hammerfall, Grave Digger and Tristania. Power metal was the genre that dragged me in the most, so I started listening to stuff like Sonata Arctica, Rhapsody, Metalium, Lost Horizon, Secret Sphere, Supreme Majesty, Celesty, quite generic stuff really because I didn't know any better. When I joined Metal Storm seven years ago I got subjected to a lot of other stuff I just didn't find out about any earlier or which had been too extreme to them untrained ears of mine back then*. Especially Immortal's "Beyond the North Waves", Agalloch's "In the Shadow of Our Pale Companion", Agathodaimon's "Cellos for the Insatiable" and Anathema's "A Dying Wish" playing on Metal Storm Radio at that time struck me the most and helped me getting used to harsh vocals and extreme metal as a whole. So I don't have a problem with power metal per se, I have a problem with all that generic bullshit floating around in this subgenre. Just as it is the case with every other genre of music on this planet. I've been an awful lot into power metal, but why bother with the generic stuff of one genre if you could listen to good stuff of another at the same time?

(*Anaal Nathrakh for example. I found them literally sickening at that time, now they are one of my favorite bands. )

Dark Empire may be exactly what you are looking for. They are one of my favorite bands and immensely underrated. They play a progressive-ish, dark Power Metal with a great mix of clean but harsh vocals and some growls. Also, the (amazing) vocalist sounds like Hansi Kürsch at times. If you want an example of their music, check out either of the two videos below.

Written by Promonex on 10.09.2011 at 04:12

Well, I moved on, broadened my horizon, found more interesting stuff in other genres, so only the cream of the crop remained in my playlists. Back then I was roaming Audioscrobbler (now Last.fm) and Audiogalaxy (sued by the RIAA in 2002) for new music, searching for stuff similar to the few metal artists I knew and enjoyed back then, namely Hammerfall, Grave Digger and Tristania. Power metal was the genre that dragged me in the most, so I started listening to stuff like Sonata Arctica, Rhapsody, Metalium, Lost Horizon, Secret Sphere, Supreme Majesty, Celesty, quite generic stuff really because I didn't know any better. When I joined Metal Storm seven years ago I got subjected to a lot of other stuff I just didn't find out about any earlier or which had been too extreme to them untrained ears of mine back then*. Especially Immortal's "Beyond the North Waves", Agalloch's "In the Shadow of Our Pale Companion", Agathodaimon's "Cellos for the Insatiable" and Anathema's "A Dying Wish" playing on Metal Storm Radio at that time struck me the most and helped me getting used to harsh vocals and extreme metal as a whole. So I don't have a problem with power metal per se, I have a problem with all that generic bullshit floating around in this subgenre. Just as it is the case with every other genre of music on this planet. I've been an awful lot into power metal, but why bother with the generic stuff of one genre if you could listen to good stuff of another at the same time?

(*Anaal Nathrakh for example. I found them literally sickening at that time, now they are one of my favorite bands. )

Quite a well thought out and thorough response. It strikes a nerve however. After browsing this tread, it would appear that the majority of folks began their metal education with power metal. This being said, some event (joining MS or whathaveyou) prompted a maturation in their musical taste. This preference shift seems to favor preference for more extreme forms of metal. While I realize that this is off topic, my point is that do you think that power metal is an accessible enough metal sub-genre to draw in the curious and eventually expose the tenacious to more 'worthy' forms of metal?

Written by Chainer on 10.09.2011 at 07:22

Quite a well thought out and thorough response. It strikes a nerve however. After browsing this tread, it would appear that the majority of folks began their metal education with power metal. This being said, some event (joining MS or whathaveyou) prompted a maturation in their musical taste. This preference shift seems to favor preference for more extreme forms of metal. While I realize that this is off topic, my point is that do you think that power metal is an accessible enough metal sub-genre to draw in the curious and eventually expose the tenacious to more 'worthy' forms of metal?

Accessibility is the key factor to get people interested in any kind of music they haven't been acquainted with yet. For the casual listener power metal and all kinds of female fronted metal sound pleasant and not as repulsive as, say, Kataklysm or Dark Funeral. That's the kind of music you can play in your car without the techno-loving co-driver complaining all the time. It's "pleasantness" makes it a good interface with the mainstream music styles.
Another common path into metal are the modern permutations of metal which stand out with their attitude and may or may not draw inspirations from other styles. Pantera, Machine Head and Five Finger Death Punch have a lot of attitude and are quite popular with younger folks, so did Slipknot and Limp Bizkit when nu metal was big and so do BFMV, BMTH, AILD and all the other acronyms in these days and times. All these bands operate on the interface between metal and mainstream music. And once people have stepped into the metal scene they will be subjected to all the other genres one way or another. Whether you'll enjoy all the other subgenres is up to you, to what you expect in your music, but you can't deny that some music styles need some getting used to before you can appreciate them. So the way I see it there definitely is a directionality in the process of "maturation", from the more accessible styles to the less accessible styles. It's the same for all styles of music, you may start with Marylin Manson and end up with Throbbing Gristle, or start with Craig David and end up with Burial. But unless you're a Manowar or Motörhead fanatic, the process of maturation takes place at any given time. For some people extreme metal might remain a locked chest, for some it might be the be-all and end-all and for others it might just be an intermediate stage, another interface to further styles.

Written by Promonex on 10.09.2011 at 04:12

playing on Metal Storm Radio at that time

Whatever happened to Metal Storm Radio ... I was thinking the other day ago about things that have disappeared from this site and your comment reminded me. Didn't there also used to be a store where you could buy Metal Storm T-shirts?

Written by Guest on 10.09.2011 at 19:40

Written by Promonex on 10.09.2011 at 04:12

playing on Metal Storm Radio at that time

Whatever happened to Metal Storm Radio ... I was thinking the other day ago about things that have disappeared from this site and your comment reminded me. Didn't there also used to be a store where you could buy Metal Storm T-shirts?

MSR was run by fadekiller in those times. Actually it was called Gargoyle Dawn Radio, became a part of Metal Storm at some time and got seperated again at a later point, for reasons I don't quite remember, and was discontinued soon after that.

A reissue of the t-shirts is discussed as we speak.

But I guess that's enough off-topic for now.

Written by Guest on 11.09.2011 at 18:07

A few suggestions:

(here's a suggestion. just fucking link them rather than the huge direct picture if you are popping up more than 3)

it is not a request for suggestions. might want to re-read the first post.

My metal journey started soley with power metal, but as i have gotten further and further into extreme stuff i find myself needing constant awesome riffage in power songs. Many power bands these days rely far too much on "an epic feeling" rather than badass riffs. its all chugging and power chords...nothing puts me to sleep faster. Oh!... and its gotta be a a little prgressive too.

Written by BitterCOld on 11.09.2011 at 20:43

Written by Guest on 11.09.2011 at 18:07

A few suggestions:

(here's a suggestion. just fucking link them rather than the huge direct picture if you are popping up more than 3)

it is not a request for suggestions. might want to re-read the first post.

Here's a suggestion for you too: just fucking mind you own business. As long as i'm not breaking any MS rules, i'll post the videos however i want.

As for the topic itself, i deleted my suggestions. Clap your hands and say "Yay!"

Yay! no more assailing readers with a wall of (off topic) youtube panes.

Written by Guest on 12.09.2011 at 16:40

Here's a suggestion for you too: just fucking mind you own business.

He's a mod around here, sort of is his business, champ.

Anyways...Topic at hand, right. Personally I'd give a recommendation of Skeletonwitch. Sure, they're not all that "epic" but they've got some of those melodic leads that fly over top the top-speed thrash riffing, and it's pretty clean and sharp, so it's got that more accessible quality to it.

Other than that, all my suggestions would probably be fairly typical and unhelpful. Ensiferum, Suidakra, etc, etc.