While I respect and appreciate their influences I really never liked true Death Metal. The band Death I do not consider true death metal more like death thrash metal, but the vocals aren't as harsh as Carcass or Cannibal Corpse. Also I really want to like but can't stomach a lot of Viking and Power Metal bands, but I love Maiden, Priest, Primal Fear, Iced Earth. I don't like most of Meshuggah's stuff either. Respect it, but don't want to listen to it.
Shoot I forgot most Metalcore I can't stand. Some is OK, but most is too commercialized now and sounds like watered down horse shit. Just listen to FFDP new 2 album shit fest.
What do you consider FFDP to be? I've always associated them with Metalcore because of the clean and harsh vocal and they have some breakdowns in their songs. Melodic metalcore maybe?
They definitely aren't metalcore, that's for sure. Probably more along the lines of alternative metal/radio hard rock based on the handful of songs I've wasted time listening to.
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"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something."
What do you consider FFDP to be? I've always associated them with Metalcore because of the clean and harsh vocal and they have some breakdowns in their songs. Melodic metalcore maybe?
Groove metal. And also what Troy said.
Metalcore is not defined by dual vocals OR breakdowns. Though breakdowns are definitely a quite... obvious feature, other genres use breakdowns too and you can be metalcore without using breakdowns.
Meshuggah and just djent bands in general, I love prog but djent just never did it for me. Brutal death metal bands I never cared for, though like with djent I respect them. I am a big fan of all the sub-genres of death metal though, melodeath is honestly one of my favorite genres. Core bands in general, though I support all the local ones since they are the dominant force in my local scene and you pretty much go nowhere if you trash them.
And as for FFDP I think they are generally considered groove. And I hate the association of dual clean and growling vocals with core bands considering my band uses them and we're prog, ha ha.
I can't stand folk metal either other than Skyclad who invented the genre and then were completely forgotten.
I don't understand why bands such as Agalloch or Opeth or Wintersun attract such massive-ish followings either. I find Opeth to be good but not mind blowing whereas Wintersun and Agalloch sound like crap to me.
They sound extremely tedious to me. In fact the best description I've ever heard of them was something along the lines of "heavy elevator music."
But then I like my metal to be straight to the point and not to wank on for ever in a generally monotonous dirge.
IMO Metal should be ballsy and exciting and intense, not boring and generally gutless. But then is Agalloch really metal anyway? Just my $0.02.
I much prefer metal to have ambient leanings and be based on textures than to have pointless instrumental wankery and flashy soloes and whatever. Also The Hawthorne Passage is the best song ever.
Uldreth fair enough - we've all got our tastes. Personally I prefer well crafted songs with awesome riffs and intensity over technical wankery or ambience.
I do find "ambient Metal" to be some what of an ironic and amusing contradiction in terms though.
Metal is meant to be raucous, loud and obnoxious - that's part of the appeal in my mind.
well that's why there so much variety in metal ,so we can split up the loud and obnoxious meat heads to the more dignified grave and observant people.
well that's why there so much variety in metal ,so we can split up the loud and obnoxious meat heads to the more dignified grave and observant people.
Now, now play nice.
Metal isn't meant to be loud and obnoxious like most thrash, black and death metal bands, it's meant to have variety. At least Agalloch bring something different to the table with all their ambientness.
Then again, most metal fans of all different genres are a volatile bunch, but it's often the lot of so-called "trve-believers" start shit.
I personally like metal for the virtuosic aspects of it rather than the heavy, aggressive parts. Sure, I love bands that are heavy and loud and aggressive but only to an extent. A lot of the same stuff just tends to get dull to me and I like the bands that try different things and experiment with other styles and sounds a lot more. Now, the bands that combine virtuosity with aggression are pretty high on my list. I admit I never really got into the ambient genres though, ha ha.
It's just interesting to hear someone is attracted to metal for the ambient components and not the heaviness/aggression/intensity/guitar orientation that are main defining features of the genre.
I was ready to start a rant, but turns out this guy said my opinions far better than I could:
I personally like metal for the virtuosic aspects of it rather than the heavy, aggressive parts. Sure, I love bands that are heavy and loud and aggressive but only to an extent. A lot of the same stuff just tends to get dull to me and I like the bands that try different things and experiment with other styles and sounds a lot more. Now, the bands that combine virtuosity with aggression are pretty high on my list. I admit I never really got into the ambient genres though, ha ha.
Believing metal's only appeal is that it's meant to be loud, brutal and offensive (even if it started out that way) is just asinine.
It's just interesting to hear someone is attracted to metal for the ambient components and not the heaviness/aggression/intensity/guitar orientation that are main defining features of the genre.
Well personally I am not into "true metal" anymore at all. I used to be but I am not now. I don't care for most things metalheads value in metal. I don't like typical metal riffs from either "authentic" metal genre, I don't like their songwriting ethos, I don't like their lyrical themes, I don't like their structures.
I mainly listen to various stuff which grew out of hardcore punk, such as post-hardcore, metalcore (all forms pretty much and there are tons of it), post-metal (most forms of it that also include Agalloch) and djent (this is less hardcore-derivative, but let's face it, groove metal is also a heavily hardcore-ized form of metal and Meshuggah was a fucked up groove metal band, and SikTh, another djent originator was a mathcore outfit). And while hardcore originally might have been also loud and obnoxious, these evolved forms I just listed all added additional dynamics that broke up with that tradition.
What I look for in music is mainly unconventional structures, extremely prevailent usage of soft-harsh dynamics and generally an ambivalent nature to the sounds and emotions portrayed, occasional harshness but NOT in the form of brutality for brutality's sake but chaotic, erratic, spastic mathy playing, with dissonant, angular riffs, occasional technical virtuosity but NOT in the form of flashy soloes but polyrhythms and time signature shifts, etc.
I am not attracted to metal at all anymore. It just happens that most of these genres I listed stand on the fringe territory of metal, elitists gonna cry about it but most sensible people consider these genres to be metal (except for post-hardcore, obviously), therefore, I am a metal listener, but most "metal" things do not attract me at all.
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Rest In Peace: Bon Scott, Dave G. Halliday, Michael "Destructor" Wulf, Jerry Fogle, Quorthon, Witchhunter
Most bands? Meshuggah doesn't do anything for me (which I can now say with even more certainty than before after listening to what an apparent fan called "a good place to start").
Most bands? Meshuggah doesn't do anything for me (which I can now say with even more certainty than before after listening to what an apparent fan called "a good place to start").
Well, it is not most accessible Meshuggah obviously (song length if nothing else), but I'd say that track/EP summarizes Meshuggah nicely so yeah, not your cup of tea then it seems.
Most bands? Meshuggah doesn't do anything for me (which I can now say with even more certainty than before after listening to what an apparent fan called "a good place to start").
Uldeth is fucking bonkers if her thinks I is a good place to start with Meshuggah, because it most certainly is not. If you want something more easy to take in, try these:
At any rate, though, they're more of a band you warm up to, rather than get immediately. Destroy, Erase, Improve was my first album by them, and it took a couple of spins to fully appreciate it, same with I.
Uldeth is fucking bonkers if her thinks I is a good place to start with Meshuggah, because it most certainly is not. If you want something more easy to take in, try these:
As I said, although I guess you didn't see it, since I posted it not long ago, I don't think I is accessible or easy at all, but it summarizes Meshuggah the best.
Old Meshuggah is more listenable but the band doesn't really make that kind of music anymore, so I think it is safe to say that on average, someone's opinion of I coincides the best with someone's overall opinion of Meshuggah, if you understand what I mean.
Of course, I am a melodic metal music fag, so it's not much of a surprise that this extremely rhythmic approach isn't to my liking. But I did take the time to listen to these recommendations because, you know, it would be rude not to. Still not my cup of tea, though I quite liked "Future Breed Machine" because it had the good sense to be more "dynamic" than the usual dense flurry of riffs and rhythms I get from this band.
Of course, I am a melodic metal music fag, so it's not much of a surprise that this extremely rhythmic approach isn't to my liking. But I did take the time to listen to these recommendations because, you know, it would be rude not to. Still not my cup of tea, though I quite liked "Future Breed Machine" because it had the good sense to be more "dynamic" than the usual dense flurry of riffs and rhythms I get from this band.
DEI is a pretty "normal" album by Meshuggah's standards, basically it is a lot like a weird groove metal album. They started doing their djentle djenty djentings with Nothing, although Chaosphere is also quite weird in that regard, I'd personally say, it is more like a mechanical-sounding mathcore album than what Shuggah did afterwards, though I guess this viewpoint of mine would not be very popular.
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