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The original post

Posted by !J.O.O.E.! on 18.05.2006 at 13:40
Pretty much single handedly responsible for getting me into metal altogether with their 'Toxicity' release. This is one amazing band, respected by critics and fans alike they create very original and unique music which can be appreciated on many levels as they take influence from all sorts of genres.

I've always had a bit a of a hard on for Serj's vocal style. He can be operatic and he can also bellow the house down if he wants to, one of the most distinctive vocals styles I've ever heard.

I've no doubt the "are they Nu Metal?" debate will come into play very soon, I for one don't see how they can be regarded as such, they simply have too many styles in their music to just be classified as simple nu metal.

Anyway, my personal fave album is their self titled debut, just a very chaotic release and very heavy and aggressive whilst having some crazy ass lyrics and compelling songwriting.

SUGAR!!!!!!!!



Page 10 of 10

no one

Posts: 3912

Age: 33
From: New Zealand

  02.06.2014 at 07:20
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 31.05.2014 at 16:52


The fact remains that you still directly said that bands like Slipknot, KoRn and P.O.D. had no hip-hop elements in so I'm beginning to wonder how much Nu Metal you've actually listened to or are in fact just taking wild swings in order to formulate an argument.

"Some did others didn't" strikes me as a comment of someone not knowing even a fraction about a topic that they apparently claim to. If you don't recognise Rap elements in some of the biggest bands of the genre I'm not sure how seriously people expect to take you on your opinions of SoaD when you can't even get the basics of Nu Metal right.



Word.
good if he could have seen that post, how do you know when someone has put you on ignore anyway ?
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nobody
!J.O.O.E.!
Defunct

Posts: 18053

Age: 32
From: UK

  02.06.2014 at 13:15
Well it's official then: deadone has absolutely no concept of what rapping is, or has only listened to a few singles of nu metal bands.

Here's one for deadone as he clearly has never listened to the whole album (or any Nu Metal or SoaD album in its entirety I suspect). 8.04 along pretty much shoots another of his notions squarely in the face where he tries to claim that a Nu Metal band / album has no hip-hop elements in:





I'm sure deadintellect (hey, this nicknaming is fun and so cool) will gloss over this just like he glosses over every valid point levelled at him and every fact he gets wrong

*awaits next shot-in-the-dark post*
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!J.O.O.E.!
Defunct

Posts: 18053

Age: 32
From: UK

  02.06.2014 at 13:22
Written by no one on 02.06.2014 at 07:20

good if he could have seen that post, how do you know when someone has put you on ignore anyway ?

Yeah it's in everyone's best interest to quote me as often as possible, just so I can hound deadcoward
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!J.O.O.E.!
Defunct

Posts: 18053

Age: 32
From: UK

  02.06.2014 at 22:04
Written by no one on 02.06.2014 at 22:02

what i meant is how do you know someone has ignored you ? do you just start noticing they never respond to your posts or something ?

In deadone's case he had a strop on the To Mega Therion thread and outright said he was blocking me. Otherwise I don't think you can tell.
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RavenEffect

Posts: 533

Age: 28
From: Portugal

  02.06.2014 at 23:59
Not sure if he was trolling when he used LOCO by coal chamber to explain his point, since, well the guy raps on pretty much 60% of the whole song.

And for Spineshank, Well...I've relistened The Height Of Callousness that was probably their breakout album (had to put Floyd's The Division Bell on hold so...yeah....) just to refresh my memory: As I remembered, both New Disease and Synthetic, the singles for their album, both of them feature a Rap-based bridge between the Reffrain.

Just to be clear, I have nothing against Nu Metal, I love Deftones's first one and I hold Limp Bizkit's first two records as some of the best Mainstream Metal albums of those years. By any perspective and point of view, SoaD is as Nu Metal as Morbid Angel.
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18929
From: Canada

  03.06.2014 at 02:22
Written by deadone on 03.06.2014 at 02:10
Man I'm not hearing rap here. This isn't RATM or Limp Bizkit or Stuck Mojo.

That Coal Chamber album isn't really a good example of rap per se, but it definitely features elements of hip-hop, its parent genre, and is thus considered nu metal. The difference here is that System of a Down include (as stated before) a minimal amount of these elements at best and are better referred to as alternative metal since their primary focus isn't on melding metal and hip-hop.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
!J.O.O.E.!
Defunct

Posts: 18053

Age: 32
From: UK

  03.06.2014 at 03:13
Honestly, I think the issue lies with your inability to distinguish between the differences. Nu Metal is a relatively easy genre to pick out, both for its metal components and its hip-hop and funk ones. People here seem to be able to recognise the necessary Nu Metal elements in bands mentioned, particularly the clear rap components. There seems to be a pretty good consensus here that while Nu Metal bands have some inter-variation between themselves, that SoaD are quite far away from the establishes parameters that make up Nu Metal, but I guess you can't make people see what they apparently don't understand. There's also further room for discussion on the likes of Spineshank, Disturbed, Godsmack etc. who, perhaps like, SoaD, were lumped in with the Nu Metal crowd but perhaps wrongly so, but that's a topic for another thread.

What you're effectively arguing for is a total absorption of Nu Metal into the tropes of Alternative Metal by denying the specifics of Nu Metal's traits, or vice-versa might be more accurate in your case. You may as well deny the existence of Post-Grunge because of the existence of Grunge and in turn the identification of Grunge because it shares some traits of other subsets of Alternative metal.
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Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18929
From: Canada

  03.06.2014 at 03:59
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 03.06.2014 at 03:13
Honestly, I think the issue lies with your inability to distinguish between the differences. Nu Metal is a relatively easy genre to pick out, both for its metal components and its hip-hop and funk ones. People here seem to be able to recognise the necessary Nu Metal elements in bands mentioned, particularly the clear rap components. There seems to be a pretty good consensus here that while Nu Metal bands have some inter-variation between themselves, that SoaD are quite far away from the establishes parameters that make up Nu Metal, but I guess you can't make people see what they apparently don't understand. There's also further room for discussion on the likes of Spineshank, Disturbed, Godsmack etc. who, perhaps like, SoaD, were lumped in with the Nu Metal crowd but perhaps wrongly so, but that's a topic for another thread.

What you're effectively arguing for is a total absorption of Nu Metal into the tropes of Alternative Metal by denying the specifics of Nu Metal's traits, or vice-versa might be more accurate in your case. You may as well deny the existence of Post-Grunge because of the existence of Grunge and in turn the identification of Grunge because it shares some traits of other subsets of Alternative metal.

Quoting for truth and because I'm pretty sure deadone still has you ignored but can see nested posts.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
!J.O.O.E.!
Defunct

Posts: 18053

Age: 32
From: UK

  03.06.2014 at 04:01
Yeah he can

I see a lot of "at the time" comments from deadone, especially how he recognises Nu Metal eventually being regarded as a metal genre, just how we are trying to update SoaD's status with more a more modern and balanced perspective, but funnily enough with regard to SoaD he is belligerently relying on their status (entirely circumstantial status based on image and location btw) when they were first formed. Kind of a hypocritical argument there. Stretching the definitions of Nu Metal to incorporate SoaD instead of actually looking at SoaD is poor form in my opinion.

Having a cursory glance around it seems as though SoaD have more or less broken away from their Nu Metal classification. Sites like Wikipedia and RYM don't appear to make too much association with them and Nu Metal.
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!J.O.O.E.!
Defunct

Posts: 18053

Age: 32
From: UK

  03.06.2014 at 04:56
Actually we're focusing on SoaD and how they have virtually no characteristics in common with Nu Metal outside of their image. Precisely why the vague Alternative Metal subgenre is ideal for them because they tend to defy easy classification. Lumping them in with Nu Metal because that's how they were seen at the time is just lazy.

As I say: stretching the definitions of Nu Metal to fit SoaD. Modern "perspectives" would seem to agree that Alternative Metal suits them best, as we've attempted to illustrate.
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Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18929
From: Canada

  03.06.2014 at 04:59
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 03.06.2014 at 04:56
Actually we're focusing on SoaD and how they have virtually no characteristics in common with Nu Metal outside of their image. Precisely why the vague Alternative Metal subgenre is ideal for them because they tend to defy easy classification. Lumping them in with Nu Metal because that's how they were seen at the time is just lazy.

As I say: stretching the definitions of Nu Metal to fit SoaD. Modern "perspectives" would seem to agree that Alternative Metal suits them best, as we've attempted to illustrate.

Vicariously arguing through your comments again. You're saying more than what I could and doing a better job of stating your case but deadone can only see the quoted posts so... don't mind the notifs so long as you two have more to say in this thread.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
!J.O.O.E.!
Defunct

Posts: 18053

Age: 32
From: UK

  03.06.2014 at 05:02
Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.06.2014 at 04:59

Vicariously arguing through your comments again. You're saying more than what I could and doing a better job of stating your case but deadone can only see the quoted posts so... don't mind the notifs so long as you two have more to say in this thread.

It's cool. I suspect this will continue on with irrelevant history lessons from our friend. I think our points have been made and will eventually spiral into repetition at this rate. There's no "right" answer ultimately, but people can formulate their own thoughts using what's written here should they wish. I would encourage modern, balanced perspectives and an analytical mind rather than using history's shaky understanding of a burgeoning new wave of music, that relied too much on overzealous marketing, as the current day basis for a band's style. This is Dr. Hipster Joe's opinion.
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RavenEffect

Posts: 533

Age: 28
From: Portugal

  03.06.2014 at 20:26
Written by deadone on 03.06.2014 at 02:10

Man I'm not hearing rap here.


This is /thread for me. The rap component is crystal in that specific song, so yeah...it's you who dont want to listen, or maybe you cant make a clear distinction
Jtbmetal123

Posts: 365

Age: 25
From: USA

  15.06.2014 at 00:00
Not to be off topic or anything but I really want a new album from these guys. Im not a huge fan of the side projects. I want System of a down.
RavenEffect

Posts: 533

Age: 28
From: Portugal

  20.06.2014 at 12:07
There is no point in doing such. The lyrical structure of the song is Rap, plain and simple. The fact that you dont hear any rap there serves as an answer to your whole argument "Nu metal has little hiphop elements". Like JOE said, the problem is you being unable to identify those same elements, thus they arent present in those specific songs.

If you try analysing the Metrics on the lyrical component, you'll end up seing it resembles more, say, Public Enemy (merely an example) than Kreator. Hip-Hop has some very specific Metric (one of the reasons that make the whole genre so hard to innovate), unlike Metal, which is why its so easy to distinguis what Nu Metal actually is. Rap-based structured Lyrics doesnt mean the guys are using 101 Rap like Limp Bizkit or RATM, sometimes they use a Rispid Semi-Growl on top of that, other times theres some tone there. The Rap is still there, but mixed with a more Metal Vocal style, thus the word "Rap-Based Lyrical Style". Almost all of these bands do so. If you listen to, say, Corey singing, he oftenly shifts between normal Rap to Growl(somewhat) but the structure doesnt change.
Ganondox

Posts: 774

Age: 19
From: USA

  20.06.2014 at 16:14
They were one of the first metal bands I got into (though at the time I called them hard rock, wouldn't call them hard rock now), and are still one of my favorite. Their music is very unique, I love just how zany it is, and also love all the Middle Eastern influences. I really want another album from these guys.
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18929
From: Canada

  20.06.2014 at 18:46
Written by Ganondox on 20.06.2014 at 16:14
I really want another album from these guys.

Get in line.
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Filthgrinder

Posts: 29

Age: 15
From: USA

  20.06.2014 at 21:04
System of a Down is one of the first metal bands I started listening to. First two albums were Steal This Album! and Mesmerize. That song "Fuck the System" still makes me laugh to this day.

They really should make another album.
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Kristiko

Posts: 6
From: Serbia
  14.05.2015 at 05:02
We need some new System music! Please, do a single, at least!
Guib
Thrash Talker

Posts: 2355

Age: 25
From: Canada

  14.05.2015 at 20:25
Can't wait to see these guys in june!! #AmnesiaRockfest
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- I love my technical, melodic, my thrash, agressive and fast paced, my sludge, well thought, my heavy, heavier and my metal, ever-growing -
Sentinel65

Posts: 207

Age: 20
From: USA

  18.05.2015 at 00:24
SOAD has been the favorite band of my only metalhead friend for years. He gave me their entire discography one day which really helped me appreciate them more. They have a very strange style that takes some getting used to, but eventually I've grown to love their wackiness. One really unique thing I've found about them is that even though their one of the quirkiest bands I've ever heard, a surprising amount of people that I have met who don't even listen to metal enjoy their more well known songs.
RavenEffect

Posts: 533

Age: 28
From: Portugal

  25.05.2015 at 16:27
Written by Sentinel65 on 18.05.2015 at 00:24

SOAD has been the favorite band of my only metalhead friend for years. He gave me their entire discography one day which really helped me appreciate them more. They have a very strange style that takes some getting used to, but eventually I've grown to love their wackiness. One really unique thing I've found about them is that even though their one of the quirkiest bands I've ever heard, a surprising amount of people that I have met who don't even listen to metal enjoy their more well known songs.


This is the part that I don't agree at all. I think it's really easy to get into SOAD and that's exactly why they're so good in the first place, they have the oddest time signatures and but they attach everything with such good riffs and melodic hooks that becomes accessible to everyone.
Ganondox

Posts: 774

Age: 19
From: USA

  26.05.2015 at 00:25
Written by RavenEffect on 25.05.2015 at 16:27

Written by Sentinel65 on 18.05.2015 at 00:24

SOAD has been the favorite band of my only metalhead friend for years. He gave me their entire discography one day which really helped me appreciate them more. They have a very strange style that takes some getting used to, but eventually I've grown to love their wackiness. One really unique thing I've found about them is that even though their one of the quirkiest bands I've ever heard, a surprising amount of people that I have met who don't even listen to metal enjoy their more well known songs.


This is the part that I don't agree at all. I think it's really easy to get into SOAD and that's exactly why they're so good in the first place, they have the oddest time signatures and but they attach everything with such good riffs and melodic hooks that becomes accessible to everyone.


It's not just the time signatures that are weird, in the world of metal that's probably the most normal thing about them. The thing that's the most obvious to people is the lyrics and Serj's eclectic vocal style, but they also use unusual instrumentation and modes, which give them a distinctively middle eastern flair. Really I think their bizarreness actually makes them more accessible, rather than less, as it draws people in.
Sentinel65

Posts: 207

Age: 20
From: USA

  26.05.2015 at 17:57
I would definitely agree that their hooks and riffs draw people in, I was more referring to their strange vocals and lyrical content. Their bizareness making them more accessible is an interesting way to think about it, I'm sure this is true due to the fact that it makes them stand out to people. In my experience, which granted doesn't involve many other huge metal fans, the strange vocals and lyrics have initially turned people off compared with the instruments.
Warman
Erotic Stains

Posts: 7661

Age: 26
From: Sweden

  16.06.2015 at 18:41
Is this band still around? Never been a fan so that's why I'm wondering.
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Ganondox

Posts: 774

Age: 19
From: USA

  17.06.2015 at 13:39
Written by Warman on 16.06.2015 at 18:41

Is this band still around? Never been a fan so that's why I'm wondering.


They recently reunited to tour, and are maybe doing another album. Before that they've been on hiatus forever.
Guib
Thrash Talker

Posts: 2355

Age: 25
From: Canada

  23.06.2015 at 07:54
I saw them live last week... t'was fucking amazing !
I really hope they'll release some new material.
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- I love my technical, melodic, my thrash, agressive and fast paced, my sludge, well thought, my heavy, heavier and my metal, ever-growing -
Cynic Metalhead
Atrocious Virgin

Posts: 4415

Age: 26
From: India

  23.06.2015 at 19:47
Written by Guib on 23.06.2015 at 07:54

I saw them live last week... t'was fucking amazing !
I really hope they'll release some new material.


You could have drop a word in their ears related to new album.

They should come up with full new disc now.
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Guib
Thrash Talker

Posts: 2355

Age: 25
From: Canada

  24.06.2015 at 03:50
Written by Cynic Metalhead on 23.06.2015 at 19:47

Written by Guib on 23.06.2015 at 07:54

I saw them live last week... t'was fucking amazing !
I really hope they'll release some new material.


You could have drop a word in their ears related to new album.

They should come up with full new disc now.


Drop a word in their ear lol what am I ? It's a festival, it's 1h30 am... and they don't even put an encore. What am I suppose to do lol
Jump the fences and escape the security while they rush to their tour bus lawl. I wish actually. Maybe next time.
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- I love my technical, melodic, my thrash, agressive and fast paced, my sludge, well thought, my heavy, heavier and my metal, ever-growing -
Cynic Metalhead
Atrocious Virgin

Posts: 4415

Age: 26
From: India

  25.06.2015 at 06:04
Written by Guib on 24.06.2015 at 03:50

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 23.06.2015 at 19:47

Written by Guib on 23.06.2015 at 07:54

I saw them live last week... t'was fucking amazing !
I really hope they'll release some new material.


You could have drop a word in their ears related to new album.

They should come up with full new disc now.


Drop a word in their ear lol what am I ? It's a festival, it's 1h30 am... and they don't even put an encore. What am I suppose to do lol
Jump the fences and escape the security while they rush to their tour bus lawl. I wish actually. Maybe next time.


YES YES and YES!

You could have jump the fences and drop a few words. This is how fans deliver personal messages to band members. =P
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