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The original post

Posted by slinx on 24.02.2012 at 10:10
I'm pretty drunk, so feel free to delete this, but this is something I've been meaning to ask for a while.

All metal is alternative to mainstream culture, so why is this different from other metal? Hell, this 'alternative' metal may be the most recognized metal on the radio to the non-exclusive metal listener.

Heavy Metal is the most basic (starting point) for all metal and most likely contains the most fans. Followed by thrash and power in terms of popularity; these groups are pretty mainstream for metal music.

Death metal or at least metal with harsh vocals fills up a smaller segment than either heavy, thrash or power and definitely has less fans than any of the previous music choices (though this site may differ).

Black metal, which puts death metal to shame with its creepiness, is even further away from the mainstream culture, or fuck, even the mainstream metal culture.

So shouldn't black metal and death metal be labeled alternative metal? Or is alternative metal, the alternative of 'true \ underground metal'?

Thank you. Donuts and roses for all.



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deadone
has a mangina

Posts: 6341
From: Australia

  19.03.2015 at 00:46
I never understood the Trivium/A7F isn't metal idiocy. They're metal through and through. If they're not metal well then neither is At The Gates or Dark Tranquillity or old In Flames.
Ganondox

Posts: 652

Age: 19
From: USA

  22.03.2015 at 00:25
Written by deadone on 19.03.2015 at 00:46

I never understood the Trivium/A7F isn't metal idiocy. They're metal through and through. If they're not metal well then neither is At The Gates or Dark Tranquillity or old In Flames.


Some A7x songs are better described as hard rock than metal, but that's about it, they're still a metal band.
deadone
has a mangina

Posts: 6341
From: Australia

  22.03.2015 at 00:32
Written by Ganondox on 22.03.2015 at 00:25


Some A7x songs are better described as hard rock than metal, but that's about it, they're still a metal band.


Yup. If having some rock songs makes one a rock band despite mainly playing metal, then virtually most metal is rock! I do find it hilarious that people assert Motorhead is 100% metal despite obviously playing shitloads of punk, hard rock and even old fashioned rock n roll and then say Trivium or A7X aren't metal. Morons!
M C Vice
Ex-polydactyl

Posts: 2294

Age: 29
From: Australia

  22.03.2015 at 10:48
Written by deadone on 22.03.2015 at 00:32

Written by Ganondox on 22.03.2015 at 00:25


Some A7x songs are better described as hard rock than metal, but that's about it, they're still a metal band.


Yup. If having some rock songs makes one a rock band despite mainly playing metal, then virtually most metal is rock! I do find it hilarious that people assert Motorhead is 100% metal despite obviously playing shitloads of punk, hard rock and even old fashioned rock n roll and then say Trivium or A7X aren't metal. Morons!

Even Lemmy says they're more rock n roll and punk than metal.
----
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"They keep promising dragons, but all I get are more floppy wieners in my face."
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ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 3396

Age: 23
From: Serbia

  23.03.2015 at 11:38
I still dont get why we use term alternative metal. alternative from what?
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"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
Cynic Metalhead
Atrocious Virgin

Posts: 4170

Age: 25
From: India

  23.03.2015 at 12:11
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 23.03.2015 at 11:38

I still dont get why we use term alternative metal. alternative from what?


Metal.
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ANGEL REAPER

Posts: 3396

Age: 23
From: Serbia

  23.03.2015 at 13:41
Written by Cynic Metalhead on 23.03.2015 at 12:11

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 23.03.2015 at 11:38

I still dont get why we use term alternative metal. alternative from what?


Metal.

but isnt the metal already alternative form or rock?
----
"Cross is only an iron,hope is just an illusion,freedom is nothing but a name..."
"Build your walls of the dead stone...Build your roofs of a dead wood..Build your dreams of a dead thoughts"
Ganondox

Posts: 652

Age: 19
From: USA

  23.03.2015 at 21:39
Written by ANGEL REAPER on 23.03.2015 at 13:41

Written by Cynic Metalhead on 23.03.2015 at 12:11

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 23.03.2015 at 11:38

I still dont get why we use term alternative metal. alternative from what?


Metal.

but isnt the metal already alternative form or rock?


No. You need to go back the 80s, which was when the term alternative rock became a thing. Metal was mainstream, alternative was the rock that WASN'T metal.
deadone
has a mangina

Posts: 6341
From: Australia

  21.04.2015 at 04:53
Written by Ganondox on 23.03.2015 at 21:39

No. You need to go back the 80s, which was when the term alternative rock became a thing. Metal was mainstream, alternative was the rock that WASN'T metal.



It was alternative to glam metal, mainstream rock and pop music. In the mid-1980s most extremer metal was still fairly underground albeit with a growing popularity in the the thrash scene.

The band that truly brought alternative rock into the mainstream was Nirvana, and they had considerable underground metal influences including Celtic Frost, Voivod, Mercyful Fate and Venom as well as more mainstream Black Sabbath.
Ganondox

Posts: 652

Age: 19
From: USA

  21.04.2015 at 07:01
Written by deadone on 21.04.2015 at 04:53

Written by Ganondox on 23.03.2015 at 21:39

No. You need to go back the 80s, which was when the term alternative rock became a thing. Metal was mainstream, alternative was the rock that WASN'T metal.



It was alternative to glam metal, mainstream rock and pop music. In the mid-1980s most extremer metal was still fairly underground albeit with a growing popularity in the the thrash scene.

The band that truly brought alternative rock into the mainstream was Nirvana, and they had considerable underground metal influences including Celtic Frost, Voivod, Mercyful Fate and Venom as well as more mainstream Black Sabbath.


Extreme metal wasn't considered alternative rock either (was it too underground to even be considered an alternative?), so it still stands that alternative rock was the rock that wasn't metal. If by mainstream rock you're referring to something like Van Halen, that would fall in the "metal" category, but obviously I was making a generalization, there was plenty of popular rock that wasn't metal.

Yeah, Nirvana was metal influenced, but they didn't get big until the 90's, which is after the scope I gave. That's really what musically set the grunge bands apart from the rest of alternative rock, they were based in the alternative rock scene, but took influence from metal as well punk.
deadone
has a mangina

Posts: 6341
From: Australia

  21.04.2015 at 07:45
Written by Ganondox on 21.04.2015 at 07:01


Extreme metal wasn't considered alternative rock either (was it too underground to even be considered an alternative?), so it still stands that alternative rock was the rock that wasn't metal. If by mainstream rock you're referring to something like Van Halen, that would fall in the "metal" category, but obviously I was making a generalization, there was plenty of popular rock that wasn't metal.


By mainstream rock I meant stuff like INXS, Billy Idol, U2, Bruce Springsteen, Genesis as well as stuff with some metal components like Bon Jovi, Extreme, Poison, Whitesnake and Van Halen.
Ganondox

Posts: 652

Age: 19
From: USA

  22.04.2015 at 09:54
Written by deadone on 21.04.2015 at 07:45

Written by Ganondox on 21.04.2015 at 07:01


Extreme metal wasn't considered alternative rock either (was it too underground to even be considered an alternative?), so it still stands that alternative rock was the rock that wasn't metal. If by mainstream rock you're referring to something like Van Halen, that would fall in the "metal" category, but obviously I was making a generalization, there was plenty of popular rock that wasn't metal.


By mainstream rock I meant stuff like INXS, Billy Idol, U2, Bruce Springsteen, Genesis as well as stuff with some metal components like Bon Jovi, Extreme, Poison, Whitesnake and Van Halen.


Pretty sure U2 and Billy Idol still get lumped with alternative rock despite being popular.
BitterCOld
Ghost COsmonaut

Posts: 13054

Age: 42
From: Paraguay

  05.05.2015 at 02:42
Written by deadone on 21.04.2015 at 04:53

It was alternative to glam metal, mainstream rock and pop music. In the mid-1980s most extremer metal was still fairly underground albeit with a growing popularity in the the thrash scene.

The band that truly brought alternative rock into the mainstream was Nirvana, and they had considerable underground metal influences including Celtic Frost, Voivod, Mercyful Fate and Venom as well as more mainstream Black Sabbath.


I'd argue Jane's Addiction. they set the table in the late 80s combining Perry Farrell's arty vision with Dave Navarro's guitar chops. they were starting to get big with "Nothing's Shocking", which also featured Flea and guys from Fishbone in cameo roles. Mountain Song made it into a Jon Cryer film (Dudes, 1987, which also featured Lee Ving of FEAR shooting former FEAR/now long time RHCP bassist Flea in the head)...

Been Caught Stealing and Stop off their "last" album were regular rotation on MTV...

Finally, they basically launched Lollapalooza.

Nirvana boomed at some point around this and brought Grunge to the world, but Lollapalooza did so much more, combining all sorts of alt music into one festival. Ice T played alongside Nine Inch Nails alongside Rollins Band... Ministry, JA, RHCP.

... that's the more metal aspect of it.

Alternative Rock had been huge and around forever. even as empty vee switched to Real World and other crap, countless cool bands made it on the M-Th 30 minute show "Post Modern" or Sunday's 120 Minutes. I discovered countless acts - MC900 Foot Jesus, They Might Be Giants, A House, The Pursuit of Happiness, The Church, The Mission UK, XTC, Dinosaur JR, The Pixies The Primitives. and Nirvana.

Alt metal wasn't so much a response to glam in and of itself, as it was bands just adding metallic bits to their arsenal or including those elements.
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deadone
has a mangina

Posts: 6341
From: Australia

  05.05.2015 at 02:57
Great post Bittercold. I only got in on the whole alt rock thing when grunge came out (and even then I preferred Soundgarden and AIC).

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