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Ace Frawley
The Spaceman

Posts: 785

Age: 41
From: Australia

  12.05.2012 at 13:30
Was just looking at the top albums and when looking at the lists by "Style" I noticed a few that I don't even know what they are, so was wondering if there are official descriptions of the different genres or "styles" on the site? If not, I put it forward as a suggestion as I know people would have fun writing them up.
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Tonight, tonight, is it just a rhapsody, or am I right? Tonight, tonight, is it all a mystery? I just can't fight no more...
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 16554

Age: 22
From: Canada

  12.05.2012 at 16:00
There aren't, but Wikipedia, RateYourMusic, and last.fm are three great sources for genre descriptions.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
Guib

Posts: 1914

Age: 23
From: Canada

  13.05.2012 at 02:22
Written by Troy Killjoy on 12.05.2012 at 16:00

There aren't, but Wikipedia, RateYourMusic, and last.fm are three great sources for genre descriptions.


Yeah but why not put those descriptions right here ? It would be awesome, and since I prefer MS to any other site.. for bands and anything related I wouldn't have to wander around the web.. I know you can find descriptions elswhere but that is not the point... fuck the other places Wouldn't that contribute to MS and its community ?
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- I love my technical, melodic, my thrash, agressive and fast paced, my sludge, well thought, my heavy, heavier and my metal, ever-growing -
Nosurper
Stinky Lips

Posts: 442

Age: 24
From: USA

  13.05.2012 at 02:25
Yeah what Guib said
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Guib

Posts: 1914

Age: 23
From: Canada

  13.05.2012 at 02:59
Written by Nosurper on 13.05.2012 at 02:25

Yeah what Guib said


thanks for the support eh eh, that's appreciated, (hands a beer)

And btw, Nosurper, Im really happy to see someone who still buy cds and downloads albums in the old legit fashion... personally its the same thing for me
(yeah I totally stalked your profile)
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- I love my technical, melodic, my thrash, agressive and fast paced, my sludge, well thought, my heavy, heavier and my metal, ever-growing -
Nosurper
Stinky Lips

Posts: 442

Age: 24
From: USA

  13.05.2012 at 03:18
Written by Guib on 13.05.2012 at 02:59

Written by Nosurper on 13.05.2012 at 02:25

Yeah what Guib said


thanks for the support eh eh, that's appreciated, (hands a beer)

And btw, Nosurper, Im really happy to see someone who still buy cds and downloads albums in the old legit fashion... personally its the same thing for me
(yeah I totally stalked your profile)


Thanks man! Wouldn't listen any other way
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Guib

Posts: 1914

Age: 23
From: Canada

  13.05.2012 at 03:21
Written by Nosurper on 13.05.2012 at 03:18

Written by Guib on 13.05.2012 at 02:59

Written by Nosurper on 13.05.2012 at 02:25

Yeah what Guib said


thanks for the support eh eh, that's appreciated, (hands a beer)

And btw, Nosurper, Im really happy to see someone who still buy cds and downloads albums in the old legit fashion... personally its the same thing for me
(yeah I totally stalked your profile)


Thanks man! Wouldn't listen any other way


I totally feel you ! I'd feel ashamed of downloading music from bands who barely make money anyways... bah even from mainstream bands
it just doesn't feel right, and owning the original copy is so gratifying... maybe Im lame IDK but I love my cds. Anyways getting back on the topic...

GIVE US THE DESCRIPTIONS !!! DAMN IT
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- I love my technical, melodic, my thrash, agressive and fast paced, my sludge, well thought, my heavy, heavier and my metal, ever-growing -
M C Vice
Ex-polydactyl

Posts: 1414

Age: 27
From: Australia

  13.05.2012 at 04:14
Descriptions? I think some of them are made up on the spot. I've seen some real doozys. And no one can describe Avant-Garde.
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GO THE SHARKS!

Apathy is an emotion.
Guib

Posts: 1914

Age: 23
From: Canada

  13.05.2012 at 04:19
Written by M C Vice on 13.05.2012 at 04:14

Descriptions? I think some of them are made up on the spot. I've seen some real doozys. And no one can describe Avant-Garde.


I didn't say (make a description that is rock solid international truth on what a genre is) but at least describe it the way you can ! ya know ? maybe we can't describe all genres perfectly I give you that.. but if a term exist for more than one band its because they share something in common musically speaking, don't you think ? In either the composition or the general sound....
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- I love my technical, melodic, my thrash, agressive and fast paced, my sludge, well thought, my heavy, heavier and my metal, ever-growing -
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 16554

Age: 22
From: Canada

  13.05.2012 at 04:56
If you guys think the feature is necessary, PM Ivan. He's the only one currently active who's capable of implementing such a feature.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
Ace Frawley
The Spaceman

Posts: 785

Age: 41
From: Australia

  13.05.2012 at 05:37
Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.05.2012 at 04:56

If you guys think the feature is necessary, PM Ivan. He's the only one currently active who's capable of implementing such a feature.


Thanks for the tip - I have sent a PM to Ivan asking him to consider my proposal. He might tell me to go take a flying leap, but that's okay. I can handle rejection.
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Tonight, tonight, is it just a rhapsody, or am I right? Tonight, tonight, is it all a mystery? I just can't fight no more...
Lit.
Brütal Legend

Posts: 3068

Age: 27
From: USA

  13.05.2012 at 06:04
On the note of genre descriptions, why not more genre labels in the search function?
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THERE'S SEMEN ON EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING!"
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 16554

Age: 22
From: Canada

  13.05.2012 at 06:17
Written by Lit. on 13.05.2012 at 06:04
On the note of genre descriptions, why not more genre labels in the search function?

Now that we have a new database chief, I'll have someone to help with contacting Ivan about adding more genres. Right now we're missing at least a legitimate handful that would add to the site's accuracy.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
Lit.
Brütal Legend

Posts: 3068

Age: 27
From: USA

  13.05.2012 at 06:25
Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.05.2012 at 06:17

Written by Lit. on 13.05.2012 at 06:04
On the note of genre descriptions, why not more genre labels in the search function?

Now that we have a new database chief, I'll have someone to help with contacting Ivan about adding more genres. Right now we're missing at least a legitimate handful that would add to the site's accuracy.


Very well. If I may make a few recommendations, I suggest Groove, Speed and Instrumental.
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THERE'S SEMEN ON EVERYTHING! EVERYTHING!"
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 16554

Age: 22
From: Canada

  13.05.2012 at 06:28
Written by Lit. on 13.05.2012 at 06:25
Very well. If I may make a few recommendations, I suggest Groove, Speed and Instrumental.

Two of those are probably going to be shut down to be honest. While I recognize groove metal and speed metal as their own genres, others here don't. That's why you see "groove thrash metal" and "speed thrash metal". We'll see, though...

As for instrumental... that's not a genre. However, you can add instrumental to the left genre box as its own tag.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
AnGina--
Dark Phoenix

Posts: 3279

Age: 28
From: Slovenia

  13.05.2012 at 10:59
Written by Guib on 13.05.2012 at 02:22

Yeah but why not put those descriptions right here ? It would be awesome, and since I prefer MS to any other site.. for bands and anything related I wouldn't have to wander around the web.. I know you can find descriptions elswhere but that is not the point... fuck the other places Wouldn't that contribute to MS and its community ?


There used to be. I remember discovering MS because I was looking for some bands of particular genres and there were also descriptions of each genre available. They were short but pretty accurate, esepcially for anyone who was just getting into metal. I miss it also, simply because of so many crossover genres that have evolved over the years and it would be great having the decriptions + bands. And also some members on MS really know a shitload about metal & certain genres so I would totally take any information from MS on a particular metal genre with more credibility that on Wiki for example.
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In the end it's every man for himself.
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 16554

Age: 22
From: Canada

  13.05.2012 at 14:24
Written by AnGina-- on 13.05.2012 at 10:59
And also some members on MS really know a shitload about metal & certain genres so I would totally take any information from MS on a particular metal genre with more credibility that on Wiki for example.

The problem with that is that we have users who have a clear bias against admitting to certain bands fitting into a genre. Wiki doesn't discriminate like that.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
Guib

Posts: 1914

Age: 23
From: Canada

  14.05.2012 at 05:15
Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.05.2012 at 14:24

Written by AnGina-- on 13.05.2012 at 10:59
And also some members on MS really know a shitload about metal & certain genres so I would totally take any information from MS on a particular metal genre with more credibility that on Wiki for example.

The problem with that is that we have users who have a clear bias against admitting to certain bands fitting into a genre. Wiki doesn't discriminate like that.


then put people that won't to the task ! I mean you staff members should be more professional with this kind of things ? no ? anyways just saying. If you can put the genre in a band's bio.. im certain you guys will have problem with this.
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- I love my technical, melodic, my thrash, agressive and fast paced, my sludge, well thought, my heavy, heavier and my metal, ever-growing -
Cynic Metalhead
Atrocious Virgin

Posts: 3359

Age: 24
From: India

  14.05.2012 at 07:39
Look, people already know what they've to listen and straightaway they check out the forums or whatever. Even for the newcomers( who prefer MS to any other site),

Search the forums, lists or check out the band( if's its available here) and you will get a lot of information about it.
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Ivan
Admin

Posts: 8740

Age: 33
From: Finland

  14.05.2012 at 09:07
I don't know about genre descriptions - they are pretty difficult to pull off. When we had them on the site (a long time ago), there was extensive bitching about their inaccuracy. Besides, I think in most cases it's enough to just take a look at the top bands of the genre to get an idea of what it is.
Ace Frawley
The Spaceman

Posts: 785

Age: 41
From: Australia

  14.05.2012 at 12:27
Written by Ivan on 14.05.2012 at 09:07

I don't know about genre descriptions - they are pretty difficult to pull off. When we had them on the site (a long time ago), there was extensive bitching about their inaccuracy. Besides, I think in most cases it's enough to just take a look at the top bands of the genre to get an idea of what it is.


Yeah, fair enough - I can understand how much of a headache it could be if people are constantly complaining about them. And another factor is that they are liquid in the sense that genres are slowly evolving and changing and splitting and combining and so forth, so would require constant revision. Thanks for considering it though.
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Tonight, tonight, is it just a rhapsody, or am I right? Tonight, tonight, is it all a mystery? I just can't fight no more...
Introspekrieg
Totemic Lust

Posts: 2519

Age: 27
From: USA

  16.05.2012 at 23:46
Written by M C Vice on 13.05.2012 at 04:14

Descriptions? I think some of them are made up on the spot. I've seen some real doozys. And no one can describe Avant-Garde.


A definition of Avant-Garde Progressive Rock from Prog-Archives:

"Avant-prog is an umbrella term which refers to any progressive rock artist with a strong leaning towards avant-garde and highly experimental approaches to music.

Avant-prog is generally considered to be more extreme and 'difficult' than other forms of progressive rock, though these terms are naturally subjective and open to interpretation. Common elements that may or may not be displayed by specific avant-prog artists include:

- Regular use of dissonance and atonality.
- Extremely complex and unpredictable song arrangements.
- Free or experimental improvisation.
- Fusion of disparate musical genres.
- Polyrhythms and highly complex time signatures.

Most avant-prog artists are highly unique and eclectic in sound and consequently tend to resist easy comparisons. However, Frank Zappa is often cited as a major influence on many avant-prog artists due to his early adoption of avant-garde and experimental attitudes within a predominantly rock/jazz context."

Not sure if that helps, but I think avantgarde itself is similar to the terms "progressive" and "experimental" when it comes to pushing boundaries. Getting down to the core of some genre descriptors is often a troublesome endeavour and in the end defeats the whole purpose of trying to quickly describe how something sounds without hearing it.
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 16554

Age: 22
From: Canada

  16.05.2012 at 23:55
Also: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/avant-garde

Essentially unorthodox and experimental in nature. Not difficult to define.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
M C Vice
Ex-polydactyl

Posts: 1414

Age: 27
From: Australia

  17.05.2012 at 10:39
Written by Introspekrieg on 16.05.2012 at 23:46

Written by M C Vice on 13.05.2012 at 04:14

Descriptions? I think some of them are made up on the spot. I've seen some real doozys. And no one can describe Avant-Garde.


A definition of Avant-Garde Progressive Rock from Prog-Archives:

"Avant-prog is an umbrella term which refers to any progressive rock artist with a strong leaning towards avant-garde and highly experimental approaches to music.

Avant-prog is generally considered to be more extreme and 'difficult' than other forms of progressive rock, though these terms are naturally subjective and open to interpretation. Common elements that may or may not be displayed by specific avant-prog artists include:

- Regular use of dissonance and atonality.
- Extremely complex and unpredictable song arrangements.
- Free or experimental improvisation.
- Fusion of disparate musical genres.
- Polyrhythms and highly complex time signatures.

Most avant-prog artists are highly unique and eclectic in sound and consequently tend to resist easy comparisons. However, Frank Zappa is often cited as a major influence on many avant-prog artists due to his early adoption of avant-garde and experimental attitudes within a predominantly rock/jazz context."

Not sure if that helps, but I think avantgarde itself is similar to the terms "progressive" and "experimental" when it comes to pushing boundaries. Getting down to the core of some genre descriptors is often a troublesome endeavour and in the end defeats the whole purpose of trying to quickly describe how something sounds without hearing it.

I know what avant-garde is, I meant that you can't really describe it's sound to someone. Try explaining a Sigh album to someone who hasn't heard one before.
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GO THE SHARKS!

Apathy is an emotion.
Introspekrieg
Totemic Lust

Posts: 2519

Age: 27
From: USA

  18.05.2012 at 01:18
Written by M C Vice on 17.05.2012 at 10:39

I know what avant-garde is, I meant that you can't really describe it's sound to someone. Try explaining a Sigh album to someone who hasn't heard one before.


Yes, the difference in sound between bands with the same genre specialization is quite noticeable.
BoxCar Willy
John Doe

Posts: 6852

Age: 17
From: Canada

  08.06.2012 at 22:18
Isn't there an old article discussing genres?
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Pop punk crusader
IronAngel

Posts: 4286

Age: 25
From: Finland

  09.06.2012 at 01:16
Genres cannot be defined, anyway. They're mutable labels that people use to categorize bands. As uses change, definitions change. Old genres split into new ones or expand to encompass a growing movement.

Metal Storm shouldn't take upon itself to police genre definitions. It's a pretty big responsibility: despite attempting to accurately and neutrally describe genres, you're actually giving an authoritative definition. That's probably not a responsibility MS wants for itself, and not one it should have.
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 16554

Age: 22
From: Canada

  09.06.2012 at 01:27
Written by IronAngel on 09.06.2012 at 01:16
That's probably not a responsibility MS wants for itself, and not one it should have.

Agreed. Other sites (be it last.fm, RateYourMusic, Wikipedia, or whatever else you prefer) do a good enough job with their descriptions. If people are really interested in reading up on genre definitions, they can do so on those sites.
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Prettier than BloodTears.
BitterCOld
King of Arizona

Posts: 12292

Age: 41
From: USA

  07.07.2012 at 00:26
Ultimately there is little point to it because no matter how it is done, you'll still end up pissing in someone's wheaties. music is fluid and does not fit neatly into little boxes.

from the totalidiots of the forum who think we should eschew such classifications and just list all bands under one forum to the chromosome-lacking people who think anything that mentions Satam is "blackened" (Motley Crue should be Blackened Glam for "Shout At The Devil!"), there is zero way this can be done. everyone thinks they know everything and everybody who disagrees with them in the slightest is wrong.

so by not defining genres we are simply taking the easiest route to pissing everyone off... rather than investing time and effort into getting genre gnerds up in arms.
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get the fuck off my lawn.
Lord TJ

Posts: 1522

Age: 24
From: USA

  07.07.2012 at 03:30
I think its better to not give descriptions. Let the listener discover for himself what he finds in the music. Of coarse genres have their things that give them their own sound hence genre, but when you describe them there will always be someone that will think otherwise. If people are listening to metal, they should have the intelligence to tell the difference between death metal and black metal, or atleast be able to know that they are different. I say leave it be and let the listeners find their own path. Who knows, maybe us not defining sounds will lure someones interest rather than them thinking "oh it sounds like that? Fuck that!".
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