The great After Forever are no more. Bal-Sagoth are never going to release an album again (probably). Therion and Epica are but pale shadows of what they used to be and Nightwish's latest album might as well have been called Imaginaerum: Nightwish On Autopilot. On top of that, Xandria's latest and quite boring album is being hailed by many as some sort of savior of the genre. As a huge fan of symphonic metal and it's sub genres (symphonic power, death etc) I am worried. It seems that too many bands nowadays use symphonic elements not because they add much to the music, but to disguise the fact that they are just not very good metal bands. Anyone - and I mean that literally - can add a Carmina Burana ooh! aah! choir to the chorus of their frustratingly simplistic four chord song or attach some pointless violin melodies (if you can call them that) to their mediocre riffs. This takes no effort and far too many bands are doing it. In addition to that, most former great symphonic metal bands have either called it quits (the wise choice) or have gone downhill big time. I don't think anyone in their right mind would consider "Imaginaerum" or "Requiem For The Indifferent" to be in the same category of greatness as "Oceanborn" or "The Phantom Agony". So, what are your thoughts on this? Has symphonic metal become a cliche and if so, are there any bands out there who can bring dignity back to one of the most epic genres of music to ever exist?

I never really spent much time with this genre, and to be honest I regard it in the same manner as Euro flower metal. You pointed out all its flaws and I'm pretty sure that's just the way the genre is nowadays. There isn't really any room for this genre to expand and I highly doubt any real contenders are out there waiting to build it back up into its former glory. Then you'll just get revivalist bands rehashing an already tired sound...

So I say yes, symphonic metal has become a cliche, and I don't think any band will be able to give it dignity. The only bands that seem to have anything going for them are those that incorporate symphonic elements into their music.

I agree that the genre has become really stale, but I believe this is a normal thing for an old genre that has thousands of bands carrying it's banner - it happened to other genres as well.

On the other side, I like to think I'm on my right mind (at least in the way you mean it) when I believe "Requiem..." is a lot better than "The Phantom Agony". For me, it was their worst album since they kept getting better over the years. And I mean musically, Simone should be fired for the band's sake if she doesn't plan on taking some singing lessons.
I also think "Imaginaerum" is the best Nightwish album since "Oceanborn" and Therion are doing really well nowadays.

If your idea for revalidating this genre is for a band to successfully imitate what was done 15 years ago, then a record like Xandria's latest should please you like it did with a handful of metalheads. I'd personally like to listen to the "golden age" records when I want to and hear contemporary bands do something I've never heard before.

A band like Aesma Daeva has all the weapons for that, too bad nobody knows what those lazy guys are doing. Le Grand Guignol released an impressive album a couple of years ago also. Todesbonden had an impressive debut on 2008 and they'll have two albums released this year. Well, I guess you get my point; there are some hidden treasures around there.

I say yeah, beside a few bands, this stuff it has become tired. You can't make high quality symphonic material forcefully. Doesn't work and you can see right through it(as explained in the first post). Not sayin' the genre is dead but a bit of rest could really help refresh things!

It has always been a cliche, if you ask me I don't consider this genre anything metal at all it's just too annoying for me as much as some crappy pop music are.

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 00:28

It has always been a cliche, if you ask me I don't consider this genre anything metal at all it's just too annoying for me as much as some crappy pop music are.

Like it or not, symphonic metal is still a sub genre of metal.

As much as I dislike this genre, saying that it's not metal is just silly to say the least.

Anyhow only extreme metal is metal

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 09:45

Anyhow only extreme metal is metal

According to that logic, Black Sabbath are not metal. Not sure if crazy or just trolling...

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 10:07

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 09:45

Anyhow only extreme metal is metal

According to that logic, Black Sabbath are not metal. Not sure if crazy or just trolling...

they are hard rock mostly and I listen to them as a classic heavy metal, you know what I am talking about I never consider bands like Within Temptation, Delain, Epica metal just because they have growling vocals and some classic Thrash guitar riffs,actually old Nightwish can be considered a kind of power metal but this genre is not some kind of music which I expect from metal.

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 11:11

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 10:07

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 09:45

Anyhow only extreme metal is metal

According to that logic, Black Sabbath are not metal. Not sure if crazy or just trolling...

they are hard rock mostly and I listen to them as a classic heavy metal, you know what I am talking about I never consider bands like Within Temptation, Delain, Epica metal just because they have growling vocals and some classic Thrash guitar riffs,actually old Nightwish can be considered a kind of power metal but this genre is not some kind of music which I expect from metal.

Symphonic Metal is part of Heavy Metal music which has elements of classic symphony,,mostly female led vocals with a heavy mixture of operatic/classical themes gives an overall taste of Symphony. It's a subset of Heavy Metal genre but claiming that "genre is not some kinda.....you expect from Metal" leads to pointless and sheer stupidity.

Bands like "After Forever" "Nightwish" "Xandria" "Sonata Arctica" "Luca Turilli" "Dark Moor" and many other acts have a successful history with their strong symphonic background.

I know what elements they have got... whatever I don't consider them metal. I can't really imagine for example both Judas Priest and Epica considered metal, at least I don't ,

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 11:33

I know what elements they have got... whatever I don't consider them metal. I can't really imagine for example both Judas Priest and Epica considered metal, at least I don't ,

Wtf? Girl is totally bonkers...

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 23.05.2012 at 11:42

Wtf? Girl is totally bonkers...

what do you mean exactly ?

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 11:47

what do you mean exactly ?

That's what we should be asking you.

EDIT: But we won't, so let's get this topic back on... topic. Has symphonic metal become a cliche? Next answer, please.

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 11:47

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 23.05.2012 at 11:42

Wtf? Girl is totally bonkers...

what do you mean exactly ?

being of the opinion that only extreme metal is metal that bands such as After Forever, Nightwish, Epica, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden etc aren''t metal

Ok I explain again, I know metal by some special elements like for example hearing innovative guitar lines.Totally metal to me is a kind of extreme music something like most of 80's heavy metal bands, Thrash metal and death metal. In symphonyc metal I hear something very different of those genres, the emphasis of music is mostly on the female singers and symphonic parts then the guitars and the rest.I don't hear that kind of heavy music that I know in Thrash genre for example.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 23.05.2012 at 11:52

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 11:47

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 23.05.2012 at 11:42

Wtf? Girl is totally bonkers...

what do you mean exactly ?

being of the opinion that only extreme metal is metal that bands such as After Forever, Nightwish, Epica, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden etc aren''t metal

no you got me wrong I meant Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath have got the metal elements in their music but those symphonic bands don't imo, and in spite of that both of them are considered metal

Yeah let's go back to the cliche they are and they were.

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 12:01

Ok I explain again, I know metal by some special elements like for example hearing innovative guitar lines.Totally metal to me is a kind of extreme music something like most of 80's heavy metal bands, Thrash metal and death metal. In symphonyc metal I hear something very different of those genres, the emphasis of music is mostly on the female singers and symphonic parts then the guitars and the rest.I don't hear that kind of heavy music that I know in Thrash genre for example.

That's pretty incoherent.

What i figure it out is that you don't like subsets of Heavy Metal. And that's what you are whining about. "I like Thrash...Death...Heavy...boo".

I don't know about your taste but certainly if you again claiming that Symphonic Metal is only Metal, it leads to shabby and irrelevant opinion..

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 12:07

no you got me wrong I meant Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath have got the metal elements in their music but those symphonic bands don't imo, and in spite of that both of them are considered metal

Are you nuts or just crazy?

Can only say I've dabbled here and there in just pure Symphonic Metal and hasn't really suited my tastes, but since the reactions from the recent quality (and lack of) Symphonic Metal it looks like it's on the way down - if it already wasn't. Saying that though there are many superior bands that incorporate Symphonic elements like Fleshgod Apocalypse, Bal-Sagoth, Rhapsody and early CoF that I love.

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 14:29

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 12:07

no you got me wrong I meant Judas Priest, Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath have got the metal elements in their music but those symphonic bands don't imo, and in spite of that both of them are considered metal

Are you nuts or just crazy?

what do you mean by that ? Is it that complicated ? I am saying I can't find the classic elements of metal music in so called Symphonic Metal so I don't consider that genre metal.

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 12:09
Yeah let's go back to the cliche they are and they were.

I'd say you're making yourself look pretty bad and closed-minded in this thread by assuming only "real" metal bands don't use symphonic elements - or in this case, failing to understand that symphonic metal (however cheesy and sugary) is in fact a sub-genre of metal.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 23.05.2012 at 17:20

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 12:09
Yeah let's go back to the cliche they are and they were.

I'd say you're making yourself look pretty bad and closed-minded in this thread by assuming only "real" metal bands don't use symphonic elements - or in this case, failing to understand that symphonic metal (however cheesy and sugary) is in fact a sub-genre of metal.

hmmm ok alright as cynic said it too, I expressed my opinion in a fanboyish way...

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 17:25

I expressed my opinion in a fanboyish way...

Nothing fanboyish about it. It's elitism. You are outright saying Symphonic metal isn't actually metal. You're even saying that unless it has extreme growls it isn't really metal. That's elitism to the 1st degree.

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 11:49


EDIT: But we won't, so let's get this topic back on... topic. Has symphonic metal become a cliche? Next answer, please.

Back on topic indeed. Too bad most people can't resist a good troll. Here are my incoherent ramblings on a genre I love very much:


This is a very interesting topic, and you make some excellent points in your opening post. Yeah, the genre went stale when all the good bands or good singers quit. Or did it? For the most part YES, but new, high quality bands are making symphonic metal all the time but it's not getting famous. The throw-back bands like Xandria and Delain are getting nostalgia points, but the actual quality bands aren't being noticed much.

I wonder why this is? Here are some ideas: back 10 years or so ago, the good bands in this genre got SO big that it became difficult for new bands to break into our hearts. We won't stand for anyone who isn't After Forever, Within Temptation, Nightwish, etc.

Nowadays, I hear excellent bands struggling with either a demo or, if they're lucky, an album, and they just can't get the sort of fame as the aforementioned bands. Not that they don't deserve it. Maybe it's metalheads who have moved on and not the bands?

Idea #2: The genre IS actually morphing, so much so that the quality bands get labels like "prog" or "power" instead of just "symphonic."

Idea #3: Laziness, or other inactivity. This is probably a small part and maybe related to the other theories on this page. You mentioned Aesma Daeva in the opening post. I don't think they're worth much BUT they do have some good musical ideas here and there. But yeah, they haven't released an album in years. Then Todesbonden, who released a gorgeous album in 2008, hasn't been seen or heard from. And even some of the incredible demo bands I hear for Clandestine Cuts or whatnot, they may release a highly promising demo and then disappear. Very sad.

Yeah for those of us who really loved this genre back in the glory days, it's hard to look back and see that it's going away now. Although, don't accept defeat. Not everyone is doing the same old crap, many are adding interesting new elements and energy to the genre. Seek out the bands who try to keep it alive, who are making awesome music NOW and still believe: Edenbridge, Alhena, Mercury Eye, November-7, Winter in Eden, Nox Aurea, Septicflesh, Diabulus in Musica, Sad Alice Said, The Murder Of My Sweet, The Rain I Bleed, Midnattsol, ReVamp, Aperion, and many others. You won't like all these bands, but if you can find 2 or 3 new ones to support then by all means, DO.

^that

And yes.

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 18:02

Written by Guest on 23.05.2012 at 17:25

I expressed my opinion in a fanboyish way...

Nothing fanboyish about it. It's elitism. You are outright saying Symphonic metal isn't actually metal. You're even saying that unless it has extreme growls it isn't really metal. That's elitism to the 1st degree.

ok but this genre is on my nerve, but ok ok I know it's the matter of different tastes and opinions