This is a topic I've been meaning to explore for some time but just haven't gotten around to it until now. Is there a difference between "slams" and "breakdowns", if so, what are they (because they both sound about the same to me)? Keep in mind I am not a musician but I do hang around with musician friends (none of them are into extreme metal though) so I do have an understanding of music terminology/lingo and I do have a good deal of knowledge about different techniques and what they are because I love reading reviews (especially reviews written by musicians since they do use musician terminology and I like knowing that stuff). Also, why are breakdowns cool in Death metal, especially in Brutal Death metal, but not cool in Deathcore?

I ask these questions because I read reviews all the time about Brutal Death metal bands like Dying Fetus where the reviewer will talk about how "the breakdowns in DF songs are so brutal!" but then they'll review a Deathcore album and write how "the breakdowns in this song suck so bad" and "the whole genre of deathcore is such bullshit because of all the breakdowns". And same with "Slam Death metal" like Pathology and Abominable Putridity, people will write reviews praising the "slams" (which sound like breakdowns to me) but then turn around and bitch about breakdowns in a Deathcore album. What gives? Is there some kind of unwritten rule somewhere that says "Breakdowns are only cool when used in Death metal but not in Deathcore?", or are they just played differently between the 2 genres and something about the way they're played in Deathcore makes them "gay" [or whatever] or am I just the first person to notice that there seems to be a double standard where breakdowns are concerned?

Marcel says BDM and DxC are pretty much the same except for what the members wear. Which is something I don't completely agree with but definitely has some merits as the difference between the two genres are really not that huge at all. I prefer deathcore because something this visceral has to be emotive (read: angry as fuck) which is something deathcore generally has while BDM doesn't mainly because BDM vocalists use a very low belching growling that completely lacks emotions and I generally hate it while most deathcore vocalists use more dynamic vocals often shifting between high screaming, low growling and pig squeals, creating contrast, making things more varied and interesting and those type of vocals generally carry more anger.
(Personally I only tolerate emotionless in djent and tech death so probably this is why most BDM bands I like like FGA, Origin or Defeated Sanity are often labeleld "technical" as well)

In my experience, though I have not heard that many BDM bands since I don't have much interest in the genre, there IS a difference between "slams" and "breakdowns". BDM breakdowns seem to have a more organic sound, more coherent and having a sort of "slithering" sound while deathcore breakdowns are more emphasised and are more staccato-like at least that's how I hear it.
I utterly fail to see how one is OMGZ TRVE METHULZ and the other is LOL POSEUR -CORE CRAPZ LOL though.

And yes, double standards are still everywhere when it comes to -core. I noticed how the great general holds totally different standards to metalcore and deathcore releases than most other genres of metal. Those who say that metalcore is oversaturated are right, yes, yet metalcore is far from the only genre that has that, yet it is almost the only genre that the GREAT GENERAL hold it as such.
Totally generic and bland ripoffs of the "finnish" melodic death metal sound get away with releasing unoriginal album after unoriginal album that gets praised to hell but when a metalcore band releases an album that hardly differs from the formula set forth by Unearth, Killswitch Engage, Diecast and the likes it gets blasted to hell due to its unoriginality.

Also when Cryptopsy released that damned album (funny how we just had news about an upcoming album of theirs ) every BDM elitist was up in arms how they sold out and shit and then went on and said that album was a ripoff of bands like BTBAM, Ion Dissonance, Dillinger Escape Plan or War From a Harlots Mouth etc. which is so stupid,
(1) considering that neither of the above mentioned bands are commercially viable in any ways nor is TUK, so selling out is out of question,
(2) Those bands themselves are REALLY different even if they belong on one wide subgenre. So how can that album be a ripoff of those bands if the bands ARE different, unless they stole from ALL of them in which case probably the end result is actually somewhat unique.
(3) Metalcore might be oversaturated but PROG metalcore isn't. It is one of those rare genres where lot's of bands are actually really different from each other especially if we take prog metalcore as a broad term. The mere concept of a band might be ripoff and "selling out" by switching from a genre absolutely lacking diversity (hi BDM) to a genre that is MUCH LESS POPULOUS and much more diverse (hi prog metalcore) and making somewhat creative music instead of an overdone BDM formula is just retarded.

But no, throw this all out of the airlock, it is -core so it must be commercial, it must be unoriginal, it must be bland, lálálálálá I cannot hear you.
This last paragraph doesn't really has anything to do with the breakdown question but I think it highlights the double standards well enough.

Oh and I forgot to mention how deathcore gets the heat for often being simple but there are tons of very primitive BDM bands as well that just keep slamming with little variety, do they get the heat? Ofc not, it's true metal, gusys ))))))))))))))))

I rest my case.

Written by Uldreth on 08.06.2012 at 21:40

...

Very interesting essay, sir. I like it and I completely agree. LOL, I thought the same thing about Cryptopsy's last album, was absolutely hilarious the number of "true metalheads" that cursed that album up one side and down the other. I still don't think the album was that bad myself, but then I don't have nearly as big a problem with Deathcore as many others. I'm not the biggest fan of it but there are some out there who either play a little closer to the Death side of the the line than the -core side or they write some good groovy songs and I'll jam some of their albums regularly; All Shall Perish's The Price Of Existence, As Blood Runs Black's Allegiance, Born Of Osiris' The Discovery, The Faceless' Akeldama, Job For A Cowboy's Doom EP, Whitechapel's This Is Exile [to name a few], but those are bands who don't exactly fall into the poppy "Hot Topic generation" of Deathcore either. Still can't stand the more "emo-y" groups who mix in some of the pop elements in the melodic riffs and singing vocals like Chelsea Grin and Asking Alexandria.

Yeah I agree as well.

It wasn't even people disliking that album what pissed me off about TUK so much, they can dislike whatever they please and besides, those bands have a bit different target audience than the BDM crowd so some negativity is expected but come on after I fought myself through all the insane amounts of comments (EVERYWHERE) how they sold out, started playing commercial pop metalcore, vocalist fucking sucked, vocalist did whiny cleans, etc. I dreaded to listen to that album and I only gave it a chance because Marcel and Jupitreas praised it (and Jupitreas' review stated contrarywise), which, in the case the whiners were right, would have been fukken wierd.
Then I checked Worship My Demons on youtube. Then I torrented the album and listened. Then I was floored. Not because how good or bad that album was (though I defo enjoyed it) but more like "THIS was it?". Was THAT really what caused all the riots? REALLY?
I expected some I See Stars-like pop punk with heavier breakdowns and I got a not perfect but damn solid album. There was absolutely NOTHING on that album that stood out as terrible. If it wasn't all the uproar I could not have even guessed this was a controversial album at all. I was in total disbelief that THIS is what people hated so much. But I guess this in my previous post was on topic but now it isn't so...

Written by psykometal on 08.06.2012 at 22:15

I'm not the biggest fan of it but there are some out there who either play a little closer to the Death side of the the line than the -core side or they write some good groovy songs

How do you mean that though? Deathcore as we know it comes from modern metalcore + death metal and there is very little hardcore in modern metalcore too so there is even less in deathcore. Probably the most -core deathcore band I heard is Animosity since they actually have hardcore vibes but that's it. I don't think there is any deathcore band that is more -core than metal :p. But if you know any I am all ears, would love to hear some.

Written by Uldreth on 08.06.2012 at 22:34

How do you mean that though? Deathcore as we know it comes from modern metalcore + death metal and there is very little hardcore in modern metalcore too so there is even less in deathcore. Probably the most -core deathcore band I heard is Animosity since they actually have hardcore vibes but that's it. I don't think there is any deathcore band that is more -core than metal :p. But if you know any I am all ears, would love to hear some.

Well I was merely breaking the word in 2 pieces [death and core] so I didn't mean hardcore but I see where that could be confusing. As you stated Deathcore is Metalcore+Death metal or vice versa depending on the band, what I meant was "where the band is more Death metal than Metalcore".

http://www.metalsucks.net/2011/04/04/deathcore-vs-slam-metal-how-2-tell-them-apart/
This is sort of a joke article, but the information is actually pretty accurate.
"Breakdowns are single-note, palm-muted, chugga-chugga riffs, essentially the same thing you've been hearing since "Raining Blood" and Pantera's "Domination" only tuned down a little lower."

"SLAMS are also palm-muted riffs, but usually on the chromatic scale (as heard on Pantera "A New Level") rather than single-note chugs. They are really more about creating a chunky texture than any kind of real melody or discernable "song" in the conventional sense. Basically, imagine tuning down to A or B and just kind of randomly playing power chords up and down the first 5 frets or so on the bottom strings- that's more or less what slam is all about."

And Marcel is wrong about BDM being the same as deathcore. He's either too blinded by his oldness to see the differences, or just hasn't listened to any of the thousands of non popular deathcore bands who'se songs literally consist of the same breakdown being played over and over again with the occasional half assed TBDM riff. Brutal death metal has breakdowns between the riffing, deathcore has riffing between the breakdowns. For what it's worth, I don't hate all deathcore. The more popular bands are generally decent, but since bad deathcore is so easy to play, there is much more shitty deathcore bands than pretty much any style of metal.

Written by Guest on 09.06.2012 at 04:28
Brutal death metal has breakdowns between the riffing, deathcore has riffing between the breakdowns.

Thank you for posting this. I was half-ready to write my own essay and you saved me the effort.

Written by Guest on 09.06.2012 at 04:28

http://www.metalsucks.net/2011/04/04/deathcore-vs-slam-metal-how-2-tell-them-apart/

Well this made for an interesting read. A good bit of this I was already aware of, definitely like how he went into detail about the difference between the way the 2 techniques are used. As for all the teeny boppy girls and tattoos with skinny jeans vs no girls and baggy clothes I was already aware of that, LOL. Still can't get into Slam either because as Sergeant D stated, I just can't stand the vocals being so unintelligible and inarticulate...

I'll chime in when it's not so late and I'm not so tired, but for now a vid that may have merit within this discussion:

That article while is technically accurate is just laughable and kind of confirms everything I said in the second part of my first post in this thread.

After suffering through those slam songs, I have to say I don't give a rat's ass if those slams use the chromatic scale or not (besides breakdown isn't defined as palm muted one-chord chugging at all, in fact it is such a broad thing that stuff you find in early Opeth songs like those acoustic sections are essentially breakdowns too) they were fucking boring and monotonous and accusing deathcore of uncreativity and breakdown overuse when you have a genre made of literally nothing but (this is how it was said in the article as well!) monotonous unchanging slithering and the worst possible execuse for vocals is just priceless.

Said article didn't give any reason why deathcore would be any worse than slam aside from... oh yeah the bands' audience and what they wear. Fucking bunch of hypocrites.

Interestingly, Abominable Putridity's last album I kinda like but I hear more BDM in it than SDM. And it is nowhere as monotonous as the SDM songs in that article :s.

Written by Uldreth on 09.06.2012 at 11:27
Fucking bunch of hypocrites.

They aren't hypocrites, they're just generalizing. They're the kind of people who say "all deathcore is bad", as opposed to "bad deathcore is really bad. It's just like brutal death and slam death, they both have quality bands and absolute failure bands. It's just that bad deathcore bands seem to litter the metal scene more so than any other non-deathcore bands.

Written by Uldreth on 09.06.2012 at 11:27
Said article didn't give any reason why deathcore would be any worse than slam aside from... oh yeah the bands' audience and what they wear. Fucking bunch of hypocrites.

Yep... and some bands are also placed into the "core" category purely based on what they wear and supposedly being "scene". But then again, the moment someone uses non-musical elements as a factor in why a band "sucks", I can't take their opinion seriously at all. Deathcore and BDM can be genres that are hard to tell apart, I even heard some people referring to Cattle Decapitation's latest as being "deathcore"... which about sums it all up really.

Written by Uldreth on 09.06.2012 at 11:27

That article while is technically accurate is just laughable and kind of confirms everything I said in the second part of my first post in this thread.

After suffering through those slam songs, I have to say I don't give a rat's ass if those slams use the chromatic scale or not (besides breakdown isn't defined as palm muted one-chord chugging at all, in fact it is such a broad thing that stuff you find in early Opeth songs like those acoustic sections are essentially breakdowns too) they were fucking boring and monotonous and accusing deathcore of uncreativity and breakdown overuse when you have a genre made of literally nothing but (this is how it was said in the article as well!) monotonous unchanging slithering and the worst possible execuse for vocals is just priceless.

Said article didn't give any reason why deathcore would be any worse than slam aside from... oh yeah the bands' audience and what they wear. Fucking bunch of hypocrites.

Interestingly, Abominable Putridity's last album I kinda like but I hear more BDM in it than SDM. And it is nowhere as monotonous as the SDM songs in that article :s.

For the record, the guy who wrote the article is a big deathcore fan and doesn't listen to any metal besides slam. It's called being able to poke fun at stuff you like. I think you may need some butthurt ointment.

Then he may want to write the article that way. Like Thryce actually managed to do so here.

I could suspect something like that...

...after digging through the comments (not the article) for the nth time.

But fact is there was absolutely NOTHING in that article that would give that away aside from slight OTT-ness that actually happens often without sarcastic intent in those circles.

So before you offer me butthurt oilment, the dear "Sergeant D" should perhaps first acquire writing skills necessary to make his intent clear.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 09.06.2012 at 06:55

Written by Guest on 09.06.2012 at 04:28
Brutal death metal has breakdowns between the riffing, deathcore has riffing between the breakdowns.

Thank you for posting this. I was half-ready to write my own essay and you saved me the effort.

Troy- we're not so different...you and I.

Written by Tristus Scriptor on 10.06.2012 at 00:36
Troy- we're not so different...you and I.

I'm going to assume this is a compliment.

I'm also going to assume you were saved from writing an essay thanks to that simple explanation above.

Written by Angelic Storm on 09.06.2012 at 17:28

Yep... and some bands are also placed into the "core" category purely based on what they wear and supposedly being "scene". But then again, the moment someone uses non-musical elements as a factor in why a band "sucks", I can't take their opinion seriously at all. Deathcore and BDM can be genres that are hard to tell apart, I even heard some people referring to Cattle Decapitation's latest as being "deathcore"... which about sums it all up really.

This right here. Hell, me personally, I feel that Despised Icon is not as bad as everybody makes them out to be but they get criticized and ridiculed like crazy by the legions of "tr00 fans of br00tality" for their artwork, appearance and dual vocalists. Their drummer is actually quite a beast and I'm sure he could easily hold his own with any BDM drummer (listen to his drumming on "MVP" from Day Of Mourning)...

Written by Troy Killjoy on 10.06.2012 at 00:41

Written by Tristus Scriptor on 10.06.2012 at 00:36
Troy- we're not so different...you and I.

I'm going to assume this is a compliment.

I'm also going to assume you were saved from writing an essay thanks to that simple explanation above.

Your assumptions are correct, sir.

Written by psykometal on 10.06.2012 at 00:57
Hell, me personally, I feel that Despised Icon ... drummer (listen to his drumming on "MVP" from Day Of Mourning)...

Will do in 20 mins. Wait... why are they still invisible? Didn't MS even post the news of their break-up? edit: F T 22232 editagain: <- done

I think that deathcore over does the whole breakdown thing.
Im not against them in anyway, but holy fuck- SO MANY GOD DAMN BREAKDOWNS AH

Cool topic. Personally I am 100% sure there is a difference between Deathcore and Slam. Deathcore is metalcore+DM.(and yes, most metalcore is bland IMO).
Slam\BDM has nothing to do with metalcore, it was mostly(I believe) invented by Suffocation and is a much less popular\used style. I enjoy a bit of both genres and agree the difference is hard to pinpoint when we lack the terminology, but it does exist and has to has to do with rhythm, vocal approach, structure of songs and riffs.

Written by Grey Wind on 13.06.2012 at 12:37

Cool topic. Personally I am 100% sure there is a difference between Deathcore and Slam. Deathcore is metalcore+DM.(and yes, most metalcore is bland IMO).
Slam\BDM has nothing to do with metalcore, it was mostly(I believe) invented by Suffocation and is a much less popular\used style. I enjoy a bit of both genres and agree the difference is hard to pinpoint when we lack the terminology, but it does exist and has to has to do with rhythm, vocal approach, structure of songs and riffs.

I know there is a difference in the styles, was just looking for an explanation of the difference between breakdowns and slams, and some explanation as to why so many people hate Deathcore for its use of breakdowns but then praise BDM bands for their use of breakdowns. The difference in the song structures and vocal approaches are blatantly obvious...

Written by Guest on 09.06.2012 at 04:28
Brutal death metal has breakdowns between the riffing, deathcore has riffing between the breakdowns.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 09.06.2012 at 06:55
Thank you for posting this. I was half-ready to write my own essay and you saved me the effort.

Hmmmm, I still have a hard time thinking that deathcore can be simplified that much. It seems like such comment understimates the genre way too much. I was very active with deathcore for the Metal Storm Awards 2011 and I really don't think it's just breakdowns + some riffs. Maybe or the shitty bands but so what? Just as easy as to point out how the shittiest BM bands usually have horrible horrible production. :\

Written by X-Ray Rod on 14.06.2012 at 17:22
Hmmmm, I still have a hard time thinking that deathcore can be simplified that much. It seems like such comment understimates the genre way too much. I was very active with deathcore for the Metal Storm Awards 2011 and I really don't think it's just breakdowns + some riffs. Maybe or the shitty bands but so what? Just as easy as to point out how the shittiest BM bands usually have horrible horrible production. :\

I'm not saying all deathcore is shitty, and I'm not saying all brutal/slam death is a showcase of musical complexity. It's just the simple comparison between the two. Bands like Cephalotripsy write a ton of chugging riffs and then go for the breakdown. Bands like Suicide Silence write a ton of breakdowns and then go for a riff or two.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 14.06.2012 at 17:24

I'm not saying all deathcore is shitty, and I'm not saying all brutal/slam death is a showcase of musical complexity.

Nah, you obviously didn't say that. I wasn't commenting on it... Just the "breakdowns with some riffs" part.

I usually see the difference in the overall style, not that much the songwriting. Deathcore gives me an obvious hardcore vibe (well, duh!) and that's the first thing I use to see the difference between Deathcore and other styles like brutal/slam death.

Maaaan I don't dig Suicide Silence. Currently listening to the latest by All Shall Perish, as good as I remember it was.

Ummm deathcore more metal core while Brutal death metal more death metal, both originates from modified of death metal.

The difference is obvious, and as Mr. Doctor said - the feeling (atmosphere) is really different. First of all, deathcore is not DM, despite the use of some DM techniques, and the upper article of Sergeant D nicely shows how are performed the breakdowns in both of the genres. However, he is totally wrong to say that the whole dethcore scene sucks. I use to listen to slam for maybe an year, it's not so much, but I am familiar with about a dozen bands - I always seek new ones, but there are not much around. I can define the SDM as a extremely brutal DM, usually in mid-paced guitar tempo, furious drumming - double base stuff and some extreme blasts, like gravity and so on, always ultra-low gutteral vocals without any effects, and the slams (kind of breakdowns) - I can say that they connect the songs - which is not true in deathcore (I should say that the breakdowns there split the song structure).

And of course, if you know some nice SBM - I'll be happy if you share your info. Some names from me:
Devourement, Cepalotripsy, Katalepsy, Abysmal Torment, Abominable Putridity, Digested Flesh, Heinous Killings, today I also found Infertile Surrogacy (thanks to the upper article) and Visceral Disgorge.

Cheers!

Despised Icon is great.

that is all.


I think as stated above the feeling is different, sure the breakdows can be strikingly similar, but what deathcore band has slam gutterals? Or what Slam band has high-pitched shrieks? I think the majority of the music deals more with the rifss and the actually body of the song, rather than just the breakdowns.

A lot of the time it's just elitests pretending that slam breakdowns are soooo much different than deathcore breakdowns.

Also, what Void said.

Obvious difference between the two, have heard very few Deathcore bands that don't sound like a 12 year old girl chucking a tantrum. But I admit Despised Icon are a cut above the rest. I like some Slam, not much, it's pretty fucking boring, too many bands trying to copy Devourment, but a lot more enjoyable to listen to than Deathcore. It's phasing out anyway, they're all changing to Djent (except maybe JFAC, they turned Death Metal) so why should we care? Trends fade, whereas Metal lives on forever, shaking off all the Motley Crues, Limp Biskits, and Suicide Silence's as it wanders. Ready for the next crappy trend to form and take the money from stupid teenagers ><

Oh, and whoever called Cattle Decapitation's new album Deathcore is fucking dense, it's Grindcore, just like their previous releases, obviously that person was 13.