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The original post

Posted by on 10.11.2006 at 22:01
I wasn't sure about posting this.. But I'm really willing to see other people's opinions in this situation than just my schoolmates.

Here's something to discuss:
- What kind of action should different big nations and unions (UN, USA, EU, etc.) actually take in the different situations that are happening over there?
- On who's side are you? Israel's or Palestine's? Why?
- What should be done on Iran? How could we be sure of the true intentions of Iran's nuclear plans?
- What do you think about Iraq's current situation? Was Saddams death penalty justified?
- How non-religious would you consider the different conflicts?
- Would you consider peace in the Middle-East as a realistic dream?

Please, discuss. Oh, and remember, no spamming, no stupidity what so ever. State your opinions calmly and try to be an adult.



Page 22 of 22

deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3823
From: Australia

  14.08.2014 at 02:13
Written by Akram on 13.08.2014 at 19:27


The term "Arab world" or "Islamic world" is only a description that in fact has nothing to do with the notion of unity and its obligations.


Totally agree. However where they find it in their interest, they do act together. The Persian Gulf States were all glad to support Sunni rebels in Lybia and Syria and they were all glad to crush Shia rebels in Bahrain.


Quote:
The Muslim Arab countries were introduced to the nation state attaining independence. So, now they play according to their private interests just like all the countries. Well, yes, those private interests can be of religious or sectarian nature. However, this doesn't mean they are doing it for the mere love of Allah. It's all about influence and power even through foreign affairs.



Totally agree again! However it's interesting there is not even condemnation of atrocities commited by the Islamic State (aka ISIS/ISIL) let alone any active role. They will jump to condemn Israel though.

Hence I suspect there are at least elements if not whole Persian Gulf State governments that secretly support the Islamic State. And some are not so secret - Qatar hasn't exactly hidden it's involvement in supporting various nasty jihadi groups in Syria and Libya.



Quote:

KSA specifically supports Salafism. Al Saud took over Mecca for they knew they would get huge economical benefit, let alone the political influence. I don't think they even care about religion, yet they had to collaborate with the Wahhabis in order to accomplish that and here resides the religious aspect, the gown they had to put on, the Wahabbi Salafism.

A monarchy claiming it applies Islam which is supposedly against monarchy!
This is how I define KSA



Fair assessment indeed!



I think a lot of the Middle East's problems lie with the collapse of Arab and Iranian secular nationalism and their replacement by Persian Gulf state sponsored fundamentalism.


In the past KSA and the other Persian Gulf states were nothing. Arab political power was wielded by the nationalist Arabs led by Egypt. Religion was nowhere near as important - after all Sunni Egypt had a political union with Alawite led Syria (United Arab Republic). Iran played an important role too - for example the Iranians were heavily involved in fight against pro-Egyptian Arab nationalists. Indeed Iran and KSA were allied in this instance.

The Arab gulf states were far smaller players here and treaded carefully. For example KSA might finance Egypt's military against Israel but at the same time not support Egypt's actions in Yemen civil war.

Since 1990s we've had Arab secular nationalism collapse and replaced by Islamic fundamentalism funded and supported by Persian Gulf states. And as such we are getting a lot of failed states - Libya, Iraq, Syria and Yemen is returning back to failed state (it never really worked as a country in first place and was only getting it's act together in 1990s). Lebanon which was not Arab Nationalist has also degenerated back to a failed state.

Egypt is under pressure from Islamists - there have been attacks on Egyptian forces in both Sinai and from the Libyan border and the political situation is failed. Algeria is the only remaining Arab Nationalist country with anything even close to peace - all thanks to an extremely brutal counter-insurgency fought by the Algerians against fundamentalists in the 1990s.


There have always been wars in this part of the world and not just against Israel (Yemen civil war, Iran-Iraq, Libya-Egypt) but they were generally conventional wars in which civilians could live in relative peace. The new kind of warfare practiced in Middle East results in perpetual terror - car bombs, insurgents etc.

The insurgents are getting more fundamentalist and more barbaric. They've gone a long way from Muhajadeen in Afghanistan to current batch of blood thristy psychopaths. The new fundamentalists ala Boko Haram, Islamic State and al-Shabaab make Al Qaeda look positively peaceful. Indeed Al Qaeda has disowned Islamic State as far too extremist.

And in the end it all boils down to funding from oil rich Persian Gulf states, especially KSA and Qatar.

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