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The original post

Posted by on 10.11.2006 at 22:01
I wasn't sure about posting this.. But I'm really willing to see other people's opinions in this situation than just my schoolmates.

Here's something to discuss:
- What kind of action should different big nations and unions (UN, USA, EU, etc.) actually take in the different situations that are happening over there?
- On who's side are you? Israel's or Palestine's? Why?
- What should be done on Iran? How could we be sure of the true intentions of Iran's nuclear plans?
- What do you think about Iraq's current situation? Was Saddams death penalty justified?
- How non-religious would you consider the different conflicts?
- Would you consider peace in the Middle-East as a realistic dream?

Please, discuss. Oh, and remember, no spamming, no stupidity what so ever. State your opinions calmly and try to be an adult.



Page 23 of 23

Bad English
Masterchief

Posts: 43130

Age: 31
From: Sweden

  13.06.2015 at 12:44
Written by Rasputin on 13.06.2015 at 05:40

Written by Bad English on 13.06.2015 at 01:36

Written by Rasputin on 13.06.2015 at 01:26

Deport me for what exactly?


to Serbia, Russia,

@dead - but then where are best life quality? Albania, Tajiksitan, Serbia, Russia, or Germany, Scandinavia?

I didn't say where, I asked for the reason of deportation or do you have a difficulty reading English as much as writing it?


because you're not loyal and you might do some boming as in Oklokoma ....
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Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

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Rasputin

Posts: 516
From: Russia

  13.06.2015 at 14:48
Written by Bad English on 13.06.2015 at 12:44

Written by Rasputin on 13.06.2015 at 05:40

Written by Bad English on 13.06.2015 at 01:36

Written by Rasputin on 13.06.2015 at 01:26

Deport me for what exactly?


to Serbia, Russia,

@dead - but then where are best life quality? Albania, Tajiksitan, Serbia, Russia, or Germany, Scandinavia?

I didn't say where, I asked for the reason of deportation or do you have a difficulty reading English as much as writing it?


because you're not loyal and you might do some boming as in Oklokoma ....

Loyal to whom? I think you need to worry more about your friends, the Muslims, about booming something. Plus, McVeigh was a former US soldier, so talk about loyalty.
Bad English
Masterchief

Posts: 43130

Age: 31
From: Sweden

  13.06.2015 at 16:04
Quote:
Written by Rasputin on 13.06.2015 at 14:48

because you're not loyal and you might do some boming as in Oklokoma ....

Loyal to whom? I think you need to worry more about your friends, the Muslims, about booming something. Plus, McVeigh was a former US soldier, so talk about loyalty.


loyal to US and NATO and all they do and don't be pro Russian
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Bad English
Masterchief

Posts: 43130

Age: 31
From: Sweden

  13.06.2015 at 20:46
http://www.ultras-tifo.net/photo-news/3589-bosnia-a-herzegovina-israel-12062015.html
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Rasputin

Posts: 516
From: Russia

  14.06.2015 at 04:08
Quote:
Written by Bad English on 13.06.2015 at 16:04

Written by Rasputin on 13.06.2015 at 14:48

because you're not loyal and you might do some boming as in Oklokoma ....

Loyal to whom? I think you need to worry more about your friends, the Muslims, about booming something. Plus, McVeigh was a former US soldier, so talk about loyalty.


loyal to US and NATO and all they do and don't be pro Russian

Why the fuck should I be loyal to NATO? Fuck NATO, NATO bombed my country. I want NATO to be destroyed utterly. And as far as USA goes, I will be with the USA when they are in the right, when they are not, I will not, it is my right as a citizen.
Bad English
Masterchief

Posts: 43130

Age: 31
From: Sweden

  14.06.2015 at 04:17
Written by Rasputin on 14.06.2015 at 04:08

Written by Bad English on 13.06.2015 at 16:04


Why the fuck should I be loyal to NATO? Fuck NATO, NATO bombed my country. I want NATO to be destroyed utterly. And as far as USA goes, I will be with the USA when they are in the right, when they are not, I will not, it is my right as a citizen.


then again its double standards , your country is America, if no then move back where you came from .... why you live in US aif you hate it?
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Rasputin

Posts: 516
From: Russia

  14.06.2015 at 04:22
Written by Bad English on 14.06.2015 at 04:17

Written by Rasputin on 14.06.2015 at 04:08

Written by Bad English on 13.06.2015 at 16:04


Why the fuck should I be loyal to NATO? Fuck NATO, NATO bombed my country. I want NATO to be destroyed utterly. And as far as USA goes, I will be with the USA when they are in the right, when they are not, I will not, it is my right as a citizen.


then again its double standards , your country is America, if no then move back where you came from .... why you live in US aif you hate it?

Who said I hated US? Again you cannot seem to separate dislike for foreign policy over the dislike for the country. Liking/loving a country and criticizing its moves are two separate things, and maybe some day you will learn that, maybe not. But honestly I don't give what people think, you or anyone else.
Candlemass
Defaeco

Posts: 792
From: Israel

  14.06.2015 at 10:31
One of the founders of Muslim Public Affairs Committee UK, Asghar Bukhari, claims the Zionists stole his shoe on facebook post.

As opposed to the EU funded NGOs and pundit-media a group of multinational Generals and top-politicians "Israel not only met a reasonable international standard of observance of the laws of armed conflict, but in many cases significantly exceeded that standard."

Which is exactly part of the mistake. The other mistake is, contra NATO policies or Norway, is to judge soldier misconduct.



Written by Rasputin on 14.06.2015 at 04:22

honestly I don't give what people think, you or anyone else.


That may be part of the problem.
----
Twelve Virtues of Rationality
Rasputin

Posts: 516
From: Russia

  14.06.2015 at 14:40
Written by Candlemass on 14.06.2015 at 10:31

One of the founders of Muslim Public Affairs Committee UK, Asghar Bukhari, claims the Zionists stole his shoe on facebook post.

As opposed to the EU funded NGOs and pundit-media a group of multinational Generals and top-politicians "Israel not only met a reasonable international standard of observance of the laws of armed conflict, but in many cases significantly exceeded that standard."

Which is exactly part of the mistake. The other mistake is, contra NATO policies or Norway, is to judge soldier misconduct.



Written by Rasputin on 14.06.2015 at 04:22

honestly I don't give what people think, you or anyone else.


That maybe part of the problem.

That is never a problem
Bad English
Masterchief

Posts: 43130

Age: 31
From: Sweden

  15.06.2015 at 13:00
You are telling me facts like I am an idiot and don't know
I am pissing of rasp whit nato, legal way how piss people off is nato and isreal support,

Rasp complains muslims come here and abuse system , but what does he same. His country is USA , not Serbia, if he likes Serbia why don't leave it
I know Balkan war was mistake, even separation could be friendly, mostly war is Serbian blame, but later bombings in Yugo was mistake, all sides done war crimes. But he shoud respect where he lives or move away

Nato idea was keep germans in order, usa in and soviets out

last time Europe saw war was WWII grandpas did saw it, Balkans was regional. if NATO wont exist soviets would take all Europe, and now VP would take all as well, each country separately would fall

I hope war never happens, but comparinmg mid east and N Africa yes NATO fucked up but only who did most fuck up was George, rest followed in Iraq. Lybia was France , Sarkozy is WP man, he made it on purpose to help VP crush NATO (new theory LOL)

Alone we would be dead and it defends our ideas all what western world stands for
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Rasputin

Posts: 516
From: Russia

  15.06.2015 at 21:05
Written by Bad English on 15.06.2015 at 13:00

You are telling me facts like I am an idiot and don't know
I am pissing of rasp whit nato, legal way how piss people off is nato and isreal support,

Rasp complains muslims come here and abuse system , but what does he same. His country is USA , not Serbia, if he likes Serbia why don't leave it
I know Balkan war was mistake, even separation could be friendly, mostly war is Serbian blame, but later bombings in Yugo was mistake, all sides done war crimes. But he shoud respect where he lives or move away

Nato idea was keep germans in order, usa in and soviets out

last time Europe saw war was WWII grandpas did saw it, Balkans was regional. if NATO wont exist soviets would take all Europe, and now VP would take all as well, each country separately would fall

I hope war never happens, but comparinmg mid east and N Africa yes NATO fucked up but only who did most fuck up was George, rest followed in Iraq. Lybia was France , Sarkozy is WP man, he made it on purpose to help VP crush NATO (new theory LOL)

Alone we would be dead and it defends our ideas all what western world stands for

You think you are pissing me off? LMAO.

Muslims do abuse the system, if you are blind and stupid not to see that, that is your problem. Serbia to blame for the war? Wow, typical EU ignoramus. I am glad that you fuckers up north are such experts on the subject, considering that several countries from your orgy called EU were responsible for funding and pushing for the conflict, but oh well, eat some more ludafisk and shut up before the Ruskis invade
Bad English
Masterchief

Posts: 43130

Age: 31
From: Sweden

  16.06.2015 at 02:46
Written by deadone on 16.06.2015 at 02:37

Written by Rasputin on 15.06.2015 at 21:05

Serbia to blame for the war? Wow, typical EU ignoramus.


Alas ol' BE doesn't know anything bar regurgitate standard party lines. I was there in 1990-91 and could tell you for a fact certain Croatians were quite eager for a war as much as Serb nationalists were. As the old saying goes: "it takes two to tango."


yes they could simply let those states be free when they wanted
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Bad English
Masterchief

Posts: 43130

Age: 31
From: Sweden

  16.06.2015 at 03:04
Written by deadone on 16.06.2015 at 02:58

Written by Bad English on 16.06.2015 at 02:46


yes they could simply let those states be free when they wanted


I don't think that would've stopped the Croatian nationalists from attacking the Serbs. Every shop had to display a Croatian flag or be firebombed. And that didn't work half the time if the person was a known Serb.

The main pro-Croatian party was the HDZ who were nationalists to the extreme. They purged the government of Serbs once they came to power before the war.

Most Croats we knew (my parents included) didn't want independence. But people were voting for independence because they were scared nationalists would find out who they voted for and beat them up.

Hence something like 93% of people voted for independence (now Serbs were 12% of the population and most were pro-Yugolsavia). It wasn't a properly monitored vote either so who knows how much tampering was involved.

In essence it was the same thing that the Russians did in the Ukraine.


Well time proved Liberation is better Slo, Cro is in EU and are better life quality as cyclic lands but still Yugo was not bad life standards
and you never know, maybe if Serbia let them go even war be, media wont made it so negative
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Rasputin

Posts: 516
From: Russia

  16.06.2015 at 21:08
Written by deadone on 16.06.2015 at 03:16

Written by Bad English on 16.06.2015 at 03:04

Well time proved Liberation is better Slo, Cro is in EU and are better life quality


As always you have it all wrong.

Living standards in Croatia are still poorer than they were during Yugoslavia. Country is now more corrupt than many African states. There are virtually no jobs (unemployment is over 18% and that doesn't count under-employed). Most industries have shut down and there is now lots of crime.

But you haven't got a clue and just spurt the "EU is awesome, drink the cool aid" line.

Quote:
and you never know, maybe if Serbia let them go even war be, media wont made it so negative



If you had a clue, you'd know the nationalists were attacking Serbs and purging Serbs before the war started. Serb nationalists were doing the same. (i.e. 1989, the war started in 1991).

I was there and remember bombs going off before the war started. I remember witnessing anti-Serb rioting and looting before the war started.

Franjo Tudman and his Croatian nationalists wanted the Serbs out just like the Serbian nationalists wanted a greater Serbia.

Thank you for speaking the truth, you get even more respect from me now, not that you give a shit, but still, you are the first person to openly say the truth. You are right, Serbian Nationalists wanted Greater Serbia, but I think they were aiming for the territory that was given up in exchange for the Kingdom of Serbs, Slovenes and Croats and of course Bosnia. And from what I remember, it was mainly the leaders, Slobodan Milosevic and his mafia that wanted that, the majority of people did not want war. Theoretically, there was already a Greater Serbia by formation of Yugoslavia, but that is another story. Franjo Tudjman and his cohorts were mafiosos as well and did not give a shit, didn't he sell parts of Croatia to Italy? It was a clusterfuck on all sides.

And yeah, I stopped taking Bad English seriously, there is not point in explaining stuff to him. I just love it when people who have not been there and saw it firsthand what actually happened continue to spew nonsense from the authority perspective like "this happened." Same thing as the Srebrenica thing, everyone goes up in arms how it was Genocide, no, it was a massacre, but no one asks what provoked it. No one mentions over 3000 Serbian civilians ethnically cleansed by Naser Oric and his men.

EU is great, if you live in Germany maybe, I have not seen any country to even include Slovenia doing so well either, yes they are in a better position then Croatia, Serbia and Bosnia but still, they are nowhere near where they should have been for joining the EU.
Rasputin

Posts: 516
From: Russia

  18.06.2015 at 05:42
Written by deadone on 17.06.2015 at 02:17

Written by Rasputin on 16.06.2015 at 21:08


EU is great, if you live in Germany maybe, I have not seen any country to even include Slovenia doing so well either, yes they are in a better position then Croatia



Slovenia was in a better position overall before the wars anyhow. From what my parents say, they were always separate from the rest of the Yugoslavs and regarded as somewhat uppity.

And Franjo never sold a chunk of Croatia to Italy. He and his family were involved in many shady deals selling chunks of Croatian infrastructure to various cronies etc, including some of my family members who were HDZ members.

Being influenced by Austria, and being so close to the actual rich Europe it is not surprise there. Plus, they did not have so many political issues and wars like the rest of the Balkans.

Thanks for the info.
Rasputin

Posts: 516
From: Russia

  18.06.2015 at 09:40
Written by deadone on 18.06.2015 at 06:12

Written by Rasputin on 18.06.2015 at 05:42

Being influenced by Austria, and being so close to the actual rich Europe it is not surprise there. Plus, they did not have so many political issues and wars like the rest of the Balkans.


The benefits of cultural hegemony.

The Balkans will never have that, it will be like Middle East, war war war, until everyone kills everyone or the end of the world comes in one form or another.
Rasputin

Posts: 516
From: Russia

  19.06.2015 at 02:44
Written by deadone on 18.06.2015 at 09:49

Written by Rasputin on 18.06.2015 at 09:40


The Balkans will never have that, it will be like Middle East, war war war, until everyone kills everyone or the end of the world comes in one form or another.



I suspect they'll have peace for the time being. They're all too broke to wage war. If you teleported Hitler's 1941 vintage Wehrmacht into 2015, they'd be able to invade most of Eastern Europe without any major losses, such is the miserable state of these countries defences.


One of the great ironies of the military-industrial complex is that it's made weapons so expensive, most countries can't afford to buy them or maintain them. So they give up on the capability all together.

Tis why a few deranged numbnuts with AK-47s can cause such havoc.

I think it will happen, but not the way we expect it. You are right, the state is miserable, however, how much ammo and how many AK's do you need to start up shit. KLA is operating in full force, there are people all over that have weapons stashed just in case, and ultimately it will not be necessarily country versus country, but paramilitary versus paramilitary.
Rasputin

Posts: 516
From: Russia

  19.06.2015 at 08:11
Written by deadone on 19.06.2015 at 02:55

Written by Rasputin on 19.06.2015 at 02:44

, how much ammo and how many AK's do you need to start up shit.


Not many really, especially if the target government is weak and lacking in willingess to fight. Look at Boko Haram in Nigeria. A country with hige oil reserves, 178 million people and one of the largest militaries in Africa and a few Islamist hundred nutters initially caused massive chaos and nearly caused the government to collapse.

Same happened in Iraq as well following US pull out - hey I've brought us back on topic.

Excellent. The Iraqi military and government are not keen on fighting CIA creations Al Qaeda and ISIS. One part is that the government is a puppet regime, and the other that they know that they might get it worse if USA chooses to leave and get engaged somewhere else. Plus, most borders down there are bullshit to begin with, so each country has a desire to control another territory. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan... take your pick. Middle East will be fucked for a long while, or at least until more dictators take power, since in comparison of couple of thousand they kill each year, is nothing compared to how many are dying now. So, lesser evil, maybe? I don't know.
Rasputin

Posts: 516
From: Russia

  19.06.2015 at 10:01
Written by deadone on 19.06.2015 at 09:15

Written by Rasputin on 19.06.2015 at 08:11

Excellent. The Iraqi military and government are not keen on fighting CIA creations Al Qaeda and ISIS. One part is that the government is a puppet regime,


Yes an Iranian puppet regime. The US lost most of its influence even while their troops were there. Sectarian loyalty overrides even Yankee dollars.


Quote:

Plus, most borders down there are bullshit to begin with, so each country has a desire to control another territory. Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan... take your pick. Middle East will be fucked for a long while, or at least until more dictators take power, since in comparison of couple of thousand they kill each year, is nothing compared to how many are dying now. So, lesser evil, maybe? I don't know.


Pretty much.

Iraq in itself is a figment of European colonial immagination. In reality it's Kurdistan, Shiastan and Sunnistan. No Shia really wants to die for Kurds or Sunnis or vice versa.

Indeed any Sunni towns that are "liberated" from ISIS by Kurds or Shias are being ethnically cleansed of their Sunni populations.

Several things amaze me about whole ISIS thing:

1. Other than Kurds, Iran and Syrian government, no-one gives a damn about really fighting ISIS. The US commitment to this war is pathetic as is just about everyone's elses be it the Iraqis, the Saudis, the Jordanians etc.

2. There is no talk about a post-war Iraq. It somehow assumes the status quo will be maintained despite no changes in Iraqi government attitudes to Sunni majorities and the Kurds/Shias ethnically cleansing any town or village they come to. I suspect if ISIS is defeated in Iraq, there won't be any Sunnis left either (and then I wonder what Saudi Arabia will do).

3. There's no real roadmap for how to progress with Syria either, save train some rebels of dubious loyalty.

Agreed, but I think the puppet regime stems from other directions as well, but yes Iran is a part of it, however, Iran is not as much of a threat as we think it is. The issue is purely political with them, meaning, there are only half truths and distorted stories that are being peddled in the mainstream media. Iranian government is nuts, but their people, their way of life an the country as a whole is a bizarre place. Bourdain just did a tour there in his "Parts Unknown" series, and it was fascinating to see how complex everything is there.

ISIS is a very useful tool, for the USA and for the rest of the countries down there. For USA, they were a relatively cheap way of getting rid of dictators they did not like, which further destabilized the region and made it open for exploitation by corporations and neighbor countries. At the same time, they replaced the Al Qaeda/Saddam Hussein/Gaddafi/Mubarak etc., and that way it always gives an excuse for the USA to be there. As far as the nearby countries are concerned, ISIS creates enough havoc for them to come in and take chunks of land and resources for themselves, so why would they fight their fellow Muslims, regardless how crazy they are, until they actually pose a threat to them.

Iraq, Syria, Lybia, Lebanon and almost any country down there that does not have strong leadership will cease to exist. Iraq especially, since you are right, with all those sides against each other, it was only thanks to a dictator that some order was established, you remove that, and it is chaos. I would not be surprised to see several smaller states being formed in the end, if the fighting ever stops, but I doubt that it will. The political vacuum needs to be filled, and until a new dictator rises, or gets placed there, this mess will continue and spill over to the surrounding countries.
Bad English
Masterchief

Posts: 43130

Age: 31
From: Sweden

  24.09.2015 at 03:25
Iran sanctions are over, and Iran has gas, ca Irani gas be alternative to Russian.. I think they can give 50% from Russian market to Europe. If it happens Russian economics will suffer a lot
can Iran be alternative way to Saudi's oil?
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Bad English
Masterchief

Posts: 43130

Age: 31
From: Sweden

  05.11.2015 at 12:26
I don't get rapsutin and ausie one don't discuss, so boring

Russia moves to Syria SAM S 300 and islander balsitical missiles , question is why? I personaly don't mind if those be used against isis and Syrian rebels
So Russian plain ... was it a terror act? many says it was an act ... as explosion, I am thinking if its true, how Russia will act? I think they will totraly bomb isis positions and also in Iraq and use heavier weapons, maybe tactical nuke to isis possions, I think once you use it arabs and muslims wont be same anymore, they might start deal inside whit extremism. Palestinians strat inform hamas, idiot fighters what they know and so on, because fear of nuclear explosion.

Russia will fource Egypt army take more actions against isis and muslim brotherhood fighters, Egypt if they want they can deal whit it there in Synay peninsula. Russia will send ground troops in Syria , maybe Iraq, maybe Egypt some speznaz or navy zpeznaz solders. Many chechens are isis fighters, there might be heavy operations in Dagestan and Chechenya. It also might bring up Nazi attacks in Russian aanst ppl from C Asia who are muslims, Now they are there to , but this can be reason when state organized skin heads do it and police wont investigate and covers up ... its new reality for islam people , Russia is stupid, says NATO is enemy, world enemy nr 1 is islam terrorists and it means Rus wont have money, I say up to January Rus troops be out of Ukr, army be in Chechenya fighting, other part in mid east, Ukraine forcses will get back Donbass in 2 weeks and when Rus troops go back, they will execute rebel commanders
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Bad English
Masterchief

Posts: 43130

Age: 31
From: Sweden

  06.01.2016 at 17:09
Saudi vs Iran ... shitas vs sunnitas, it would be interesting read 1 month ago about this,. but I don't see war between those 2 nations.
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing

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