Written by testdrug on 19.08.2012 at 23:00
However, they never state that..

But me telling you that it was exactly how it happened won't make a change, right? Because I doubt you will believe me only to continue with your idea despite the fact that I know Doc Godin took care of anything. None of us... either staff or elite too care of this artwork contest besides him. Only Doc Godin got all the votes emailed to him, counted them and took the 50 with most votes. Only him and no one else.

Feel free to ask him via pm. But even then I get the feeling that you won't believe me or him anyways...

Written by Guest on 19.08.2012 at 23:00

You're running around in circles. The pure fact that there's something as esoteric as a djent cover art here refutes your theory of people voting for fans of the genre. You don't seem to want to accept the possibility that power metal has hideous covers that even power metal fans might not want to vote for it. You don't understand what bias means clearly.

No I'm not. There's plenty of power metal album covers that are boring and hideous but claiming that 98% of their covers are terrible is an erroneous claim that was just downright silly. If that's your opinion...then so be it, but your opinion was silly and I just pointed that out. You clearly do not understand what bias means. Bias is a particular tendency or inclination towards something which the majority of voters have on this website. I'm not going to run in circles with you trying to defend that people hold more interest on this website for particular bands and genres. It's the obvious truth. Case closed.

Written by Guest on 19.08.2012 at 23:00

People have tastes, that's not bias. If you believe what you say, that everything and all decisions are plagued with bias then your comment was the most redundant comment possible. I took it to mean that there was unfair decision making going on, which is not the case. Power metal had its chance and failed, despite it being a very popular genre (which it is, that's a fact).

Yes, people have tastes and based on those tastes is there tendency to be biased towards what they like. I never pointed out their tastes were wrong, just that they have them and that I felt the list was biased. If I enjoy drinking Coca-Cola and someone requests my opinion on whether they should order a Coke or a Pepsi, I'm likely going to tell them to go with Coke...not because I hate Pepsi or think it's bad, but because I like Coke and think they would like it to (and probably subliminally should like). Bias doesn't mean there is some sort of rule breaking going on or some sort of poor sportsmanship going on (however it could be applied). It's the fact that the majority of people lean towards certain tastes (the majority being on this website). Ignore that if it makes you feel better though. But don't try and convince me that power metal is the majorly popular around these parts because it's simply a lie.

Written by Guest on 19.08.2012 at 23:00

I was being sarcastic, I was actually apologising. I'm very well aware of the huge differences between death and melodeath, as are most people. There are plenty of places you can educate yourself on that but in a nutshell melodeath has far more in common with the likes of Iron Maiden than it does with death metal. This is an offtopic issue and irrelevant at this point.

I know you were being sarcastic. I wasn't being sarcastic. Seriously. I asking what your definition was in the differences since you claim they were virtually different genres that only shared the same name. I wasn't looking for a response that told me to go and look it up. You care to elaborate on your Iron Maiden being like melodeath argument because I am still missing what you're trying to convey. Guess I'm just that stupid. Educate me, please.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 19.08.2012 at 23:07

But me telling you that it was exactly how it happened won't make a change, right? Because I doubt you will believe me only to continue with your idea despite the fact that I know Doc Godin took care of anything. None of us... either staff or elite too care of this artwork contest besides him. Only Doc Godin got all the votes emailed to him, counted them and took the 50 with most votes. Only him and no one else.

Feel free to ask him via pm. But even then I get the feeling that you won't believe me or him anyways...

With all due respect. What reason should I have to believe you? I mean. Would you believe me?

I just said, they never state how it was compiled and asked to be shown where it said this is how they came to conclusive list.

I don't need to PM someone. I just wrote I assumed this is how they compiled they list and you just told me I was right. Aren't we done with this?

WHERE'S MY SUOMI ARTWORK YOU BIASED MOTHERFUCKERS?

Written by testdrug on 19.08.2012 at 23:22
you just told me I was right.

Right with what? With the fact that the top 50 were choosen in a manner that wasn't simply "take the 50 that has the most votes"?

In that case that's a no.... That part is not a fact, that's just an idea based on nothing in particular. The part that is bad is that a person assumes something without a proof and even worse: actually accuses the website without proof. Your idea that Godin didn't work the way I just told you is just as valid as my opinion. You can think whatever you want... That's fine... But acuse without solid proof is not correct. Lawsuits and justice would go to hell if you can acuse without proof and only "assuming".

Also.. just to correct you, it's not "they never state"... It's "He never state".

Written by testdrug on 19.08.2012 at 23:18

No I'm not. There's plenty of power metal album covers that are boring and hideous but claiming that 98% of their covers are terrible is an erroneous claim that was just downright silly. If that's your opinion...then so be it, but your opinion was silly and I just pointed that out. You clearly do not understand what bias means. Bias is a particular tendency or inclination towards something which the majority of voters have on this website. I'm not going to run in circles with you trying to defend that people hold more interest on this website for particular bands and genres. It's the obvious truth. Case closed.

Yes I was being facetious with that, and I also recognise that that is MY opinion on power metal. I never said otherwise. Calling someone's opinion silly is in itself very silly. I hope you see that. If bias is as you say then my evidence in the next response in fact proves that power metal should have the least amount of bias against it.

Quote:
Yes, people have tastes and based on those tastes is there tendency to be biased towards what they like. I never pointed out their tastes were wrong, just that they have them and that I felt the list was biased. If I enjoy drinking Coca-Cola and someone requests my opinion on whether they should order a Coke or a Pepsi, I'm likely going to tell them to go with Coke...not because I hate Pepsi or think it's bad, but because I like Coke and think they would like it to (and probably subliminally should like). Bias doesn't mean there is some sort of rule breaking going on or some sort of poor sportsmanship going on (however it could be applied). It's the fact that the majority of people lean towards certain tastes (the majority being on this website). Ignore that if it makes you feel better though. But don't try and convince me that power metal is the majorly popular around these parts because it's simply lie.

Ok then, let's nip this in the bud shall we. Here's the top 8 tagged bands on Last.fm of both black and power metal. You'll have to click on them individually to see but it will show you that power metal trounces black metal in its totality in terms of listeners, i.e. popularity.

Power Metal

Black Metal

Yet somehow, power metal didn't get a look in on this award despite there clearly being more fans of power than black?

Quote:
I know you were being sarcastic. I wasn't being sarcastic. Seriously. I asking what your definition was in the differences since you claim they were virtually different genres that only shared the same name. I wasn't looking for a response that told me to go and look it up. You care to elaborate on your Iron Maiden being like melodeath argument because I am still missing what you're trying to convey. Guess I'm just that stupid. Educate me, please.

Sorry but this is a topic for somewhere else. If you wish you could open a topic up somewhere else and I'll be happy to get back to you on it at some point soon.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 19.08.2012 at 23:24

Right with what? With the fact that the top 50 were choosen in a manner that wasn't simply "take the 50 that has the most votes"?

In that case that's a no.... That part is not a fact, that's just an idea based on nothing in particular. The part that is bad is that a person assumes something without a proof and even worse: actually accuses the website without proof. Your idea that Godin didn't work the way I just told you is just as valid as my opinion. You can think whatever you want... That's fine... But acuse without solid proof is not correct.

Right with my assumption that they took the album covers that had most votes and compiled a list based off of that. That's exactly what you said and that's what I stated I had assumed. So my assumption was correct.

Accuse what? What are you talking about? My statement about the voting being biased? I never once accused anyone who runs this website of messing with results. I said the voters were biased towards particular genres of music. And this is true in my opinion. Don't agree with my comment, but don't start making shit up. That's just silly.

Written by testdrug on 19.08.2012 at 23:33
Right with my assumption that they took the album covers that had most votes and compiled a list based off of that. That's exactly what you said and that's what I stated I had assumed. So my assumption was correct.

In the best wishes in order to make things less unpleasant: I want to apologise for the big misunderstanding. Your previous posts looked like you thought that after the top 50 where counted based on the votes of everyone... modifications were made (which I can't stress enough wasn't the case). My bad on that one. Sorry once again.

Written by testdrug on 19.08.2012 at 23:33

I said the voters were biased towards particular genres of music. And this is true in my opinion.

Yes. So?

Written by Guest on 19.08.2012 at 23:28

Yes I was being facetious with that, and I also recognise that that is MY opinion on power metal. I never said otherwise. Calling someone's opinion silly is in itself very silly. I hope you see that. If bias is as you say then my evidence in the next response in fact proves that power metal should have the least amount of bias against it.

Not really. You didn't say "I think 98% of power metal album cover art sucks". It just outright made the claim that it did. I said you were incorrect and then you tried to play it up like I was telling you it was much higher...than you tried to turn it around making it seem like I was the bad guy bashing power metal. Obviously that was silly. You could have just said you disagreed and gave your reasoning that you feel those album covers are recycled and boring. Instead you made a silly claim and I told you were wrong. Thus where we are now.

Written by Guest on 19.08.2012 at 23:28

Ok then, let's nip this in the bud shall we. Here's the top 8 tagged bands on Last.fm of both black and power metal. You'll have to click on them individually to see but it will show you that power metal trounces black metal in its totality in terms of listeners, i.e. popularity.

Power Metal

Black Metal

Yet somehow, power metal didn't get a look in on this award despite there clearly being more fans of power than black?

I am not sure what that exactly proves. I don't use last.fm for anything. Based on the comments and threads I read on this website, people have a tendency to consider power metal nothing more than a joke with occasional instances of talent. Which is cool. More power to them. Most people tend to lean towards black and death metal here for whatever their reasons are. I'm not going to dispute that power metal isn't more popular on last.fm...I'm just not sure that proves anything....but I can't dispute some of those numbers.

Written by Guest on 19.08.2012 at 23:28

Sorry but this is a topic for somewhere else. If you wish you could open a topic up somewhere else and I'll be happy to get back to you on it at some point soon.

Fair enough.

Yes the users have their own opinions. This is why this had to be decided by voting. If we all agreed on a single greatest artwork we wouldnt have needed this contest. Saying EVERYBODY is biased (against your choice) is plain wrong. What the hell is wrong with common sense these days?

Written by Guest on 19.08.2012 at 23:39

Yes. So?

Pretty much what I've been getting at. Wonder why people got so offended by observation.

Written by testdrug on 19.08.2012 at 23:49



Pretty much what I've been getting at. Wonder why people got so offended by observation.

Because we are not accustomed to people randomly stating something so obvious (as I understand from this page long mindfuck is that you stated people voted according to their preferences in album artwork) and as such we jumped to the next available conclusion, one which would indeed offend us.

Written by testdrug on 19.08.2012 at 23:49

Written by Guest on 19.08.2012 at 23:39

Yes. So?

Pretty much what I've been getting at. Wonder why people got so offended by observation.

Tell you what, just ignore this contest. You have your own different opinion, stick to it. No one is forcing you to like whatever this contest results in.

Written by testdrug on 19.08.2012 at 23:47

Not really. You didn't say "I think 98% of power metal album cover art sucks". It just outright made the claim that it did. I said you were incorrect and then you tried to play it up like I was telling you it was much higher...than you tried to turn it around making it seem like I was the bad guy bashing power metal. Obviously that was silly. You could have just said you disagreed and gave your reasoning that you feel those album covers are recycled and boring. Instead you made a silly claim and I told you were wrong. Thus where we are now.

I didn't realise it was still necessary for people to add IMHO on the end of every comment they make. Clearly opinions on music are just that: opinions. While i did eventually give you an explanation of my views regarding power metal artwork my reason for treating you insincerely is because I felt (and still do) calling the lack of power metal artwork "biased" is a false and erroneous claim and one that requires an explanation. Comment on artwork quality = clear subjective opinion. Comment on the legitimacy of final choices and the notion of bias = something that requires explanation from the off, if you ask me.

Quote:
I am not sure what that exactly proves. I don't use last.fm for anything. Based on the comments and threads I read on this website, people have a tendency to consider power metal nothing more than a joke with occasional instances of talent. Which is cool. More power to them. Most people tend to lean towards black and death metal here for whatever their reasons are. I'm not going to dispute that power metal isn't more popular on last.fm...I'm just not sure that proves anything....but I can't dispute some of those numbers.

I think you're confusing a culture of discussion (where extreme metal has a lot more of it) with general popularity. If you go to band profiles on here you can see their popularity index:

Blind Guardian = 12 (1439 fans)
Helloween = 27 (997 fans)
Sonata Arctica = 34 (922 fans)

Darkthrone = 100 (449 fans)
Bathory = 76 (592 fans)
Mayhem = 87 (519 fans)

Etc.

Written by Guest on 20.08.2012 at 00:01

I didn't realise it was still necessary for people to add IMHO on the end of every comment they make. Clearly opinions on music are just that: opinions. While i did eventually give you an explanation of my views regarding power metal artwork my reason for treating you insincerely is because I felt (and still do) calling the lack of power metal artwork "biased" is a false and erroneous claim and one that requires an explanation. Comment on artwork quality = clear subjective opinion. Comment on the legitimacy of final choices and the notion of bias = something that requires explanation from the off, if you ask me.

I always think it's necessary to denote for oneself that their statements on their opinion. Especially in mannerism of discussion. Yes, this is the internet, but aren't be past those childish nuances of proclaiming such and such sucks and making it seem like everyone feels the same way you do. That's exactly what you were getting it. I do not think power metal artwork is boring or poorly photoshopped recycled ideas. I think it exemplifies what the genre itself tries to by painting a picture with it's story. I am not clear why Opeth's "Blackwater Park" or Swallow The Sun "The Morning Never Came" made the list as I found those simplistic and boring, conveying nothing about the music in itself. That doesn't mean they are bad album covers...but the top 10? I'd love some peoples explanations behind those for instance...but will I get them? No. Perhaps people simply voted for those album covers because they enjoy the music so much. But that's just my opinion.

Written by Guest on 20.08.2012 at 00:01

I think you're confusing a culture of discussion (where extreme metal has a lot more of it) with general popularity. If you go to band profiles on here you can see their popularity index:

Blind Guardian = 12 (1439 fans)
Helloween = 27 (997 fans)
Sonata Arctica = 34 (922 fans)

Darkthrone = 100 (449 fans)
Bathory = 76 (592 fans)
Mayhem = 87 (519 fans)

Etc.

Sure, but Death has more fans than Blind Guardian. So does Amon Amarth who made the list. I see what you're getting at, but I really think there's more black/death metal fans on this website than power metal fans. You'll probably find more people who like death/black metal who ALSO like power metal than you will find power metal fans who like black/death metal. I would guess a lot of those fan votes on drawn more towards power metal fans not showing an interest in the bands of those other genres. At least that's my take on it.

Written by testdrug on 20.08.2012 at 00:27


I always think it's necessary to denote for oneself that their statements on their opinion. Especially in mannerism of discussion. Yes, this is the internet, but aren't be past those childish nuances of proclaiming such and such sucks and making it seem like everyone feels the same way you do. That's exactly what you were getting it. I do not think power metal artwork is boring or poorly photoshopped recycled ideas. I think it exemplifies what the genre itself tries to by painting a picture with it's story. I am not clear why Opeth's "Blackwater Park" or Swallow The Sun "The Morning Never Came" made the list as I found those simplistic and boring, conveying nothing about the music in itself. That doesn't mean they are bad album covers...but the top 10? I'd love some peoples

Sure, but Death has more fans than Blind Guardian. So does Amon Amarth who made the list. I see what you're getting at, but I really think there's more black/death metal fans on this website than power metal fans. You'll probably find more people who like death/black metal who ALSO like power metal than you will find power metal fans who like black/death metal. I would guess a lot of those fan votes on drawn more towards power metal fans not showing an interest in the bands of those other genres. At least that's my take on it.

Not to sound horribly judgemental of power metal as a whole, as there's no way of saying it without sounding condescending, but in my opinion power metal is closer (quite close in many respects) to pop music and inspires similar mindsets and thought processes. Pop is a very popular genre that extols very little thought, both musically and visually, and consequently inspires virtually no discussion whatsoever. It's run off a factory conveyor belt and It's my belief that power metal is similar: music which sticks to conventions or melody and listenability and artwork which typically involve a very limited scope of design and theme etc, but more importantly discussion of it, despite its popularity, is minimal. The opposite is true of, say, black metal. It's a ravenously critiqued and discussed area of music (hence black metallers even shitting over other black metallers). You can call me pretentious or what have you for that observation but that's how I see it. That's why, I believe, that the lack of power metal artwork could simply be a lack perceived interest by the average power metaller. They just don't care about things like this. I wouldn't call a lack of interest in anything outside of listening to the music "bias" on anyone's part, just different cultures which have different levels of interest in the intricacies of what they listen to.

I don't like Black Metal or Power Metal, but a good cover is a good cover. The significance of voting a number of them up or down requires a person to select at least one or two that doesn't fit their normal listening habits. I haven't heard most of the music on these 10 albums, because they are outside of my tastes, but it doesn't mean the artwork has no merit if I don't like the music.

To be perfectly honest, I voted Opeth and Amon Amarth down this round, and I like them, but the art wasn't as good as some of the other bands that I couldn't care less about.

Settle down, children, before i start handing over time outs...

people vote. hooray.

popularity matters some, but temper it with the realization that not all fans of a band are active on this site an any time. and if a band's fan is not smart enough to figure out how to pm Doc, well, too bad...

The only album that you could say I listened to from that list is Twilight of the Thundergod and to be honest I'm really surprised it made it so far in this list. Who cares about the music in this poll, if you want to show your appreciation for an album then vote for it in the MS top 200. This is just about art work for me and I did not let my taste get in the way of appreciating some of these insanely detailed covers (especially Cormorant's, that surely is the best of the bunch).

My original 3 picks didn't make it ro round 2. Can I also cry and claim bias?

Written by Guest on 20.08.2012 at 00:37

power metal ... genre that extols very little thought,

Who needs thought when you've got Li and Totman playing solo after solo!

Written by Alakazam on 21.08.2012 at 02:19

Immortal deserve this now. Can't believe that Opeth, Vildhjarta and Swallow The Sun are pestering around when they shouldn't...

Well all three have better artworks than the generic and overdone Immortal .

ESPECIALLY Vildhjarta.

Written by Uldreth on 21.08.2012 at 12:02

ESPECIALLY Vildhjarta.

QFT. Yesterday a friend showed me there's a lot more than the cover artwork.



You can see it better on their website http://www.vildhjarta.com/masstaden/

Written by Unhealer on 21.08.2012 at 15:59

You can see it better on their website http://www.vildhjarta.com/masstaden/

Now we're talking. If anything other than this or Dwellings win, I'll cry.

That's it. Vildhjarta gets all my votes from now on.

Written by Guest on 21.08.2012 at 16:21

Now we're talking. If anything other than this or Dwellings win, I'll cry.

The full artwork for Leviathan is also really impressive (in case didn't see it) and Les Discrets also has some other cool artwork on the case. But one could argue if we have to vote based on the full artwork or just the cover artwork.

Hey please tell me how this goes on for Voting!!!
i can't do it

Written by azhidahakk on 21.08.2012 at 19:41

Hey please tell me how this goes on for Voting!!!
i can't do it

Send a private message to Doc Godin

Written by X-Ray Rod on 21.08.2012 at 22:14

Written by azhidahakk on 21.08.2012 at 19:41

Hey please tell me how this goes on for Voting!!!
i can't do it

Send a private message to Doc Godin

Reading is fun.

Written by Unhealer on 21.08.2012 at 15:59

Written by Uldreth on 21.08.2012 at 12:02

ESPECIALLY Vildhjarta.

QFT. Yesterday a friend showed me there's a lot more than the cover artwork.



You can see it better on their website http://www.vildhjarta.com/masstaden/

HOLY SHIT

This is even better than I thought. Of course it changes nothing about the actual artwork but maaaaan this is so cool.

Edit: The website confuses me though, can't seem to find it there :<