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The Pope



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30.11.2006 - 16:39
Konrad
Mormon Storm
This is not another thread on religion! What does everyone think about the new pope? We can all agree that there are many problems facing the Catholic Church, yet the pope is encouraging Turkey to join the EU. Is he trying to combine church and state? What do you think his purpose is? Is he a good person? Evil? Racist? Why is he getting so heavily involved in politics? You tell me...
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Brujerizmo!
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30.11.2006 - 17:01
Lupas
Maximus
As far as i know , the pope is in Turkey for to encourge a good realationship between the two religion and not for the EU or any other politics
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"For what point has this life if you can't realise your dreams?" -- The Divine Comedy
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30.11.2006 - 17:25
Konrad
Mormon Storm
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061130/wl_nm/pope_turkey_dc_29
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Brujerizmo!
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30.11.2006 - 18:06
Sunioj

Ha, Its a power struggle, the Catholic church is loosing face to the spread of Islam in third world countries, its kind of funny though. But he does have balls for putting himself in the position of threat and addressing the problem that the muslim world has.
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30.11.2006 - 18:56
Konrad
Mormon Storm
Do you think the Catholic Church would ever try to "team up" with the Muslims against the Jews?
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Brujerizmo!
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30.11.2006 - 19:12
Sunioj

Thats a hard question, the way I see it, in the future, the Catholics will be ousted from Islam fundamentalist countries, maybe with some uprising with larger minorities of Catholics. But, in Israel, Catholicism is used in west bank towns to control local opinion that coincides with the majority of Muslim leaders, as nationalism, to speak against Israel.

So as far as the opinion on Israel, both Muslims and Catholics see Israel as a terror and deny Israel its existence, and most Catholics I know agree on that.
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30.11.2006 - 20:27
Valentin B
Iconoclast
i was thinking a little about the former pope, john paul 2nd, and i when i recalled that he personally went in his cell and forgave that turk for trying to assasinate him, i thought "wow, he can't be no hypocrite"
and as for the "new" pope, he's ok so far, the only thing that annoyed me a lil was when he said that thing about the byzantine emperor and the turkish soldier or something, and appologized after about a week.
other than that, i don't mind. i might be interested if the episode above(the assasination attempt) were to be repeated. i wonder though, how many of all the past popes would have done that(and from this results the uniqueness of john paul 2nd, a REAL catholic, unlike guys with bumper stickers with "jesus loves me" and other crap claiming to be religious people solely on that basis)
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30.11.2006 - 20:53
Konrad
Mormon Storm
@Hellraizer - I agree with you about Muslims and Catholics being against Israel...which is totally hipocritical considering they both want to hail themselves as "peaceful" religions. I disagree with you that Catholics will be ousted from Islam fundamentalist countries...My theory is that they will all come together and restore some kind of false peace between themselves...and then they will unite against Israel.

@cursed - I believe the former pope was a good man...unfortunately lots of shit happened while he was sick for so long. The new pope seems like an intelligent person...I'm just wondering if he has some type of alterior motive with what he's trying to do right now. You don't just make a comment about Muhammad casually...that type of comment has to be planned to get some type of attention from Muslim communities. Let's just say I don't really trust the man yet. One thing is for sure...if I ran a church that was infested with pedofiles and scumbags, my primary focus wouldn't be encouraging Turkey to join the EU.
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Brujerizmo!
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30.11.2006 - 21:06
Sunioj

Probabley none, and as far as Catholicism Speaking out against Islam: nothing new. Well its already happenned for the past few decades, the catholics and Palestinean Authority are doing that now. They were united, but now that Hamas is in control and since they are more religiousley oriented, more and more christians are moving away from towns that hamas controls.
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30.11.2006 - 21:25
Bas
Retired Staff
well i think what he's doing now is a great thing, i dont care if there are also political things behind his reasoning, fact is he is the most important christian and he's visiting moschees and fact is that the people in turkey now have much more respect for the mightiest man in christianity, thus for christianity, and maybe also a lot of christians will open their eyes and start to respect orthodox christianity

what his other reasons are doesnt really matter much to me, what matters a lot to me is that religious racism will most probably become less through this
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BAS - Beautifully Accented Sexiness
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30.11.2006 - 21:29
Konrad
Mormon Storm
Sometimes I wonder if he's really a Christian. As of now there is nothing to convince me that he isn't...however if he takes any actions against Jews it will prove that the "Mightiest man in Christianity" is full of shit. Time will tell I guess.
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Brujerizmo!
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30.11.2006 - 21:59
Bas
Retired Staff
why should he take any action against jews? really he might be against israel's political action but i dont think that has anything to do with anti-semitism

i also disagree with quite a few of Israel's political actions (note that i also disagree greatly with the palestinian and others political actions just as much) but not because the people who did it are jews, i seriously couldnt care less about that, but i think the stuff going on is purely wrong, no matter if its done by a jew, a christian, a monkey, a clam, a scientologist, a peacock, an atheist or the tree in my backyard

anti-semitism? bullshit. just different opinions on politic
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BAS - Beautifully Accented Sexiness
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30.11.2006 - 22:14
Konrad
Mormon Storm
I agree with you. I don't know too much about Israeli politics to be heavily against them, but I wasn't saying you are anti-semitic for disagreeing with Israeli politics. There are sensible ways to disagree with certain issues, which is what you and most intelligent people are currently demonstrating.

There are two things you need to remember though.

1. Many Muslim extremists ARE anti-Semitic...regardless of their political stance.
2. During World War II, many Germans were anti-Semitic. I'm not blaming Ratzinger for being a hitler-youth...some of those kids were forced into that shit, and I don't blame them one bit...but somethings stay engraved in your mind even as you mature. This is that I worry about...
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Brujerizmo!
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30.11.2006 - 22:24
Bas
Retired Staff
well i think the anti-semitism in muslims is brought on by isreals political actions as well as forming an own state in the middle of muslim countries, of course this doesnt make jews bad, but its the easiest way to think, especially with bad education, and i dont know how good it is over there, but i dont expect too much from it :/

as for the pope, i really dont believe he is anti-semite, in fact most germans nowadays are very sensitive about anti-semitism and instantly condemn everything that has to do with it (which is very good imho). of course they were influenced by the national socialistic time, but i think germany is more scarred then anything else by it. in fact i think extreme patriotism and nationalism is nowadays much more common in switzerland for example then in germany
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BAS - Beautifully Accented Sexiness
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30.11.2006 - 22:42
Konrad
Mormon Storm
I don't anyone to think I think the Pope is a racist...I'm just going to be watching his moves very closely, because I know the influence he has. It could be used for good or evil. It's so hard to determine if someone is genuine or not without having met them personally. I know that many Muslims probably have plenty of justified reasons for not liking Israelis...but there is pure hatred amongst some of them. Let's look at the Gaza handover for example:

Here we have plenty of Jewish business owners, especially agriculturers etc. virtually HANDING OVER their businesses to the Muslims that took over the area. Instead of using the businesses for themselves, they completely burned them down. This is obviously not a logical thing to do...and is caused by pure hate. Have you been to Israel? I have...and this is what I witnessed...take in mind I'm not against Muslims, my lifelong best friend is Iranian. I'm just going to stereotype for a second. Jerusalem is considered the Holy City to Christianity, Muslim, and Judaism. Why is it then, that in the Muslim quarters of the Old City...it smells like absolute fucking shit and is dirty as fuck? Why is the Jewish sector so clean? Take a trip up to North Israel. You'll see what is called the green line. The Jewish occupied territory is all green, and there is a distinct line separating healthy plants from dead plants. This also happens to be the line that separates the Jewish and Palestinian territory. Our Lebanese friend told us that the Muslims just cut the trees down for their goats to eat. They don't grow shit, don't take care of shit, and they burn shit. As a NEUTRAL observer if I was to give the SMALL, country of Israel to someone I would give it to the Jews...because they use the land the way it should be used. Every Palestinian occupied territory is fucking disgusting. So why should they be allowed to ruin the entire country? At the same time, it would be wise for Israel to only worry about their own Country, and not occupy other countries in the middle east...however this is hard to do because many extremists want the Jews killed!

I'm not pro-Israeli polictics...I'm not pro any politics. Fuck politics. The USA would be in a lot less trouble right now if it didn't meddle in the business of so many countries in the middle east. What's the worst that will happen anyway, they'll throw rocks at us? Give me a fucking break. If it weren't for OIL, which is 100% CIRCUMSTANTIAL...the entire region, other than the agriculture segments, is a desert.


Sorry, this is off-topic, but I'm trying to prove a point. If the Muslims killed every Jew and took over the land, it would be totally worthless. Period.
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Brujerizmo!
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30.11.2006 - 22:52
Bas
Retired Staff
yeah well in my opinion it's quite simply really, the isrealites were driven out of other countries, they needed a country, they were unified, they shared the same religion and they were desperate, they had nothing else then the dream of their own country, and their own country being a wonderful place, so logically every single one of them did his very best for the greater good of isreal, so i suppose isreal really is a clean and naturally and economically pleasant, because the people there were (i dont know if they still are but i guess so) very dedicated and apparently that really shows according to you

the muslims are getting really jealous of course, their land is worthless and the land "the isrealites took from them" (i wont debate if this is correct or not, im only stating their opinions) is really great and prosperous! so they get envious of those "goddamn jews who have everything we dont because they took it from us"

i'd like to discuss further about the topic with you if you want, but i suggest we do it in a different thread


to stay on topic though, i wonder if the pope will also approach the judaism after he is done with visits to orthodox christian places and institutions, i hope so, especially since he's german and that would make it even more a sign of "trying to make peace" time will tell i suppose
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BAS - Beautifully Accented Sexiness
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01.12.2006 - 03:24
Southern Wind
Account deleted
I totally support the pope, although that is an institution that had became so political, that there's no place for an intelectual... the pope is not political, he's an intelectual, and that's why he makes "mistakes"... he don't give a fuck about political incorrectness, something I praise, and he's a very inteligent and clever man that had gave a good bliss to catholicism, but unfortunately everyone is watching him and for the minor things he says many will feel "offended"... I read the whole speech when he "attacked islam" and fuck, there's nothing to whin about, but all these senseless whining was so obvious seeing the current world situation.... unfortunately, the only solution about Islam seems to be to totally ignore it...
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01.12.2006 - 04:37
Bitch Boy

I think that his tour to Turkey is a bad idea, because of the warnings he recieved because of his comments. Also, I think that church shouldn't be part of the decisions of any country. This pope is more intelligent, but I think that former pope was better as a "person".
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01.12.2006 - 09:55
Valentin B
Iconoclast
no turks willing to comment on this? odd...
@konrad: "church infested with pedophilles and scumbags"- wtf? so if they caught about 20 priests being pedophiles, it means that half of all the catholic priests in the world are pedophilles and/or scumbags? i don't think anyone has the right(not even the most anti-christian cult) to simply trash such a vastly spread organisation because of some priests.

and i think that people shouldn't worry that much about the catholic church(cough norwegian old school trve black metal cough) and start to focus more on their own lives. shitting on the cross and burning the churches won't make you a better human being.
i'm not defending the catholic church here, but hey, instead of writing "omg teh cahtlic curhc is sooo evvaaahll!!!11!11! teh pope sux maojr a$$!11!!!!" you could write "i believe the catholic church is a faulty organisation and the pope in charge of it has made some regretful mistakes"
i too believe that the world would be better if the catholic church was "better", and that it shouldn't wash "jesus loves you all no matter how bad you sin" down people's throats and try to find a modern, intelligent solution to the problems facing it right now, and i believe that the pope(even for how old he is) should start this change
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01.12.2006 - 17:26
Konrad
Mormon Storm
@Cursed - In the United States, there has been an incredible increase in pedophilia. I made it quite clear that I have nothing against Catholics. Just last week in Florida (where I reside) 6 Priests were caught stealing millions of dollars in the past couple of years. One of the "priests" had a girlfriend and paid for her son to attend a Private Catholic school. I know the problem is much worse in my country than anywhere else, and that there are very good men that are priests...but why is Cardinal Law still a cardinal? The Catholic church personally paid millions of dollars to famlies he ruined so they wouldn't press charges on him. They don't even kick these people out of the Priesthood. WHY?

@Southern Wind - I agree with you about the Pope being an intellectual, and about the political incorrectness. We all know he is clever, the point of this thread is to discuss his motive...and like I said, it could indeed be pure.

@Bitch Boy - I also liked the previous pope a lot more. I'm VERY pro-seperation of Church and State and I don't think Ratzinger is.

Here is the latest big article:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061201/ts_nm/pope_turkey_dc_36

also here is some information about Cardinal Law...one of many examples http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardinal_Law
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Brujerizmo!
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16.02.2007 - 11:05
Paganblood
The Aryaputra
Written by Konrad on 30.11.2006 at 16:39

.... Is he a good person? Evil? Racist? Why is he getting so heavily involved in politics? You tell me...

You christians seem to compare everything in terms of good and evil... I believe that we all are 'beyond good and evil', its just 'knowledge' and 'ignorance' which makes people good and bad..
He's getting heavily involved in politics, is he? It's because christianity had always been a part of politics(that is why a bloody history had been written) and he is just a part of it.
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that which shines without names and forms...
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16.02.2007 - 11:05
Paganblood
The Aryaputra
A thread about the 'vatican bastard'... christianity itself is like an infection to humanity, ruining rationality, disrespecting other cuture, acting as if theirs is the only true religion, and so on,and the pope is a symbol of this 'infection'. Why does this 'pope' need so much respect, I mean why separate a different territory for him?
Skald gave the following example in the christinaity-ii thread:
"Alternatively imagine such modern situation. You live in a normal Democratic country and one day decide to create a new religion. To make it cooler, you make a rule stating paying taxes is immoral and your God prohibits it. And since no one likes paying taxes, you get quite a few followers. Then you decide to legalize your religion. But for some odd reason your government doesn't allow it. So you figure out it must be persecution. But hell, the LORD is on your side and as long as you follow LORD's Word, nothing bad will happen to you. So you decide to follow the smart rule and refuse to pay taxes... And then you go to jail... And to make it even more suspicious all the other followers go to jail too! It is obvious now the heathen government persecutes your religion. But you worry not, for the LORD is still on your side and even though you became a martyr, you'll find peace in the kingdom of your God.
...And this heathen government will burn in hell.

After two thousand years, when your religion will spread all around the world, people will still believe you were a holy martyr and the persecution was caused by... uh... erm... "
and pope is the leader of this 'religion' after 2000 years....
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that which shines without names and forms...
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16.02.2007 - 15:06
APOHAKC
The Bard
I would post nazi song he used to sing when he was younger but I don't want ban.
I think that he deserve gallows
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They say that we are gone but I can't let you down
The heathen faith will rise again we won't fail now
I know we cannot die forever is our time
Give my people back to me free from Christianity!!!!
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16.02.2007 - 17:31
darksun

I guess his nazi roots won't shine again as he knows his responsibilities increase when he became pope.I don't say that because he is an angel he is just an intelligent one.He knows what will happen to vatican or christianity if he provokes the nazi.By the way i believe that israel is among the intelligent countries in the world.Whether with us support or not,they are dealing with hundreds millions of arab world with 15 million population.If one can do this,you've gotta respect him.The arab or muslim world should think again why they lost fertile lands they once had.
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Dark is the sunlight,we cast the life together
Dark is the sunlight or I'm blind forever..
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04.03.2007 - 09:41
Paganblood
The Aryaputra
Written by APOHAKC on 16.02.2007 at 15:06

I would post nazi song he used to sing when he was younger but I don't want ban.
I think that he deserve gallows


who, the pope?
nazi or anti- nazi, the pope does deserve gallows.
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that which shines without names and forms...
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04.03.2007 - 18:16
tulkas
el parcero
Well, IMO I don't think a lot of good stuff could be expected from an ex-nazi being a pope, but that's just me...
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love is like a jar of shit with a strawberry on top
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05.03.2007 - 00:15
Kowalsky
Account deleted
Written by Bitch Boy on 01.12.2006 at 04:37

I think that his tour to Turkey is a bad idea, because of the warnings he recieved because of his comments. Also, I think that church shouldn't be part of the decisions of any country. This pope is more intelligent, but I think that former pope was better as a "person".


I think John Paul II was bettere as politician, he was able to govern church as a conservative and look as a progressive. Ratzinger govern as a conservative and look as a conservative. In facts, Ratzinger was Wojtyla's ideologue
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11.03.2007 - 16:02
Icewings
La Luna
Hey , well I'm no one to judge or anything but when I see his face I have shivers , there's something about him I don't like , he seems very dark ...
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Metalheads for Black Lives and Land Back
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27.09.2007 - 12:02
Øyvind
Grave Digger
I like gallows. But I don't like popes. Not the recent ones anyway (past 70 years), because they made life miserable for people in my country. I mean, I can understand it, it's in Catholic church's interest to expand, but in doing so they are destroying too much. And I don't like the present pope. He's got a strange face. a bit wicked.
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28.09.2007 - 06:10
Dane Train
Beers & Kilts
One thing I am supprised is that the Pope is not doing much to bring a stronger connection between Roman Catholics and Evangelicals.

Is that because there is no political gain? Or is it just not a problem in Europe?
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