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The original post

Posted by Dead Ohlin on 17.12.2006 at 20:54
One of the most hailed US Black Metal and
One of the most powerfull hordes of the American scene
is without a doubt 'Nachtmystium'.

Azentrius (vocals / guitar / bass), Noctis (drums)

Discography:
2006 Instinct: Decay CD
2005 Visual Propaganda: Live from the Pulpits of Damnation DVD
2005 Nachtmystium mCD
2004 The First Attacks (Demos 2000-2001) CD
2004 Reign of the Malicious Cassette
2004 Demise CD
2004 Eulogy IV LP
2004 Reign of the Malicious / Nachtmystium CD
2003 Nachtmystium mCD
2002 Reign of the Malicious CD
2002 Demise



Page 4 of 4

Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36522

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  13.09.2014 at 13:53
I find it funny that being overweight is being equated to lacking confidence by deadone.
Loads of overweight people are as confident as can be.

Of course there are also overwieght people who lack confidence to being overweight, but that's the same case with skinny people and people who are spot on weight wise.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 14919

Age: 30
From: UK

  13.09.2014 at 13:54
Written by Ilham on 13.09.2014 at 13:48

Regardless of his charisma that could or could not have led his friends and fans to trust him blindly, there are professionals that could have put a stop to this. The most gullible in the story, assuming it did happen the way Jameson depicts it, are the people over at the labels. Judd was the only guy in the scene to talk to? Nobody else was in charge of all those records and rights? Nobody ever asked anyone else if it was okay to buy those rights off him? That's what I really find hard to believe.

Probably selfishness and dollar signs. A label gets wind of some cult, out of print merch possibilities, from a famous black metal musician? Ka-ching! Let's not ask questions, I mean after all, it's from the mouth of a well known black metal personality. What could be wrong with that. That's why I think there's a broad circle of responsibility here, from obsessive compulsive, junkie-driven antics, through to less deplorable acts of ignorance, apathy and selfishness.
----
Ilham
attention whore*

Posts: 2854

Age: 25
From: Morocco

  13.09.2014 at 14:10
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 13.09.2014 at 13:54

Probably selfishness and dollar signs. A label gets wind of some cult, out of print merch possibilities, from a famous black metal musician? Ka-ching! Let's not ask questions, I mean after all, it's from the mouth of a well known black metal personality. What could be wrong with that. That's why I think there's a broad circle of responsibility here, from obsessive compulsive, junkie-driven antics, through to less deplorable acts of ignorance, apathy and selfishness.

Yeah. After all the "professionals" I'm talking about, if they're the same guys I saw in the bands and labels in Paris, it's possible. Still not defending Judd at all, but any kind of group of people that revolves around itself or a few personalities becomes toxic after a while, I don't see why it couldn't be the same across the Atlantic.

I very much agree about the weight thing. Didn't want to get into details for fear of losing the point of the discussion.
Doc Godin
Obnoxious

Posts: 9552

Age: 25
From: Canada

  13.09.2014 at 22:24
Yeah...the overweight thing - I can see it being maybe a slight issue, maybe. But I really can't see it being to the point where he'd put up with that shit for that long. As Joe pointed out, the guy has lead his own respected band for some time - that does take confidence.

I think the most logical explanation is the simplest one; they were friends. I think he mentioned at the start of the blog - they've known each other for like 15 years. It's like any other shitty, abusive relationship; simply walking away is easier said than done. You want to believe that the person is going to get their shit together, so you put up with some really awful behavior out of misplaced optimism and loyalty.
----
"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
Black Conundrum

Posts: 1993
From: USA
  13.09.2014 at 22:36
So, I'm just curious what type of legal consequences Blake can have for scamming. Now that he is outed as such and has done so to hundreds, maybe thousands of people, shouldn't he get arrested or something similar? This should not go without consequence.
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3881
From: Australia

  15.09.2014 at 02:48
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 13.09.2014 at 13:53

I find it funny that being overweight is being equated to lacking confidence by deadone.
Loads of overweight people are as confident as can be.

Of course there are also overwieght people who lack confidence to being overweight, but that's the same case with skinny people and people who are spot on weight wise.



Most people I've known who are fat lack self confidence. And given Australia is one of the most fat countries on the planet, that's a big chunk of the people I know. Some that displayed confidence didn't really have it either - it was often a thin veneer and one didn't have to look hard to see unhappiness and lack of confidence.

I say "fat" because overweight is misleading - you can be overweight but not appear fat or indeed not fat at all (people with lots of muscle).

And to me nothing says "lack of confidence" like an impoverished, fat Black Metaller. Black Metal - music of misfits that don't feel confident in society, impoverised - lack of confidence to succeed, look for better work etc, fat - bad eating habits are often a sign of lack of confidence (comfort eating). Doesn't make him a bad person though.

But then many skinny people also lack confidence - indeed rising number of eating disorders indicates this! (Ironic that both eating disorders based on extreme skininess and fat are on the increase - "normal size people" are becoming rare in Australia).


(Not too toot my own horn, but in real life I've been quite good at analysing people and seeing their true character. In fact I've never been wrong about anyone in real life. You can tell a lot about a person not just in terms of body language, appearance etc but also the way they acentuate certain words, the way they respond to certain statements and the words they use. Human beings are amazingly predictable in my opinion).
!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 14919

Age: 30
From: UK

  15.09.2014 at 02:54
Again, there's really nothing to suggest he's impoverished either. He seems to have enough cash to lend to junkie friends that he apparently doesn't need back, as well as record his own albums, and others etc. He has a steady job and a well known band. I'm not sure what Neill Jameson you're seeing but I don't think it's the same one that I am. Then again I don't see fat people or black metallers the same way you do either. By which I mean seeing groups in the form of generalised, reductive armchair psychology.
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deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3881
From: Australia

  15.09.2014 at 03:02
Written by Doc Godin on 13.09.2014 at 22:24

the guy has lead his own respected band for some time - that does take confidence.



Musicians are interesting. I've known quite a few and they had interesting personalities that often didn't fit quite well in "mainstream" society. A lot lacked self confidence in mainstream society - they didn't work or only had poor jobs and they didn't really interact with "mainstream society" e.g. sports, volunteering or non-scene friends . A lot were also relatively quiet off stage but absolute nutters on stage.

They were also really prone to following charismatic types - indeed some of them really worshipped certain other local musicians to the point where they got into the same drugs their idols were doing and did anything to get a chance to hang out with them.

(p.s. a lot were skinny too - I couldn't believe how badly many of them ate - coffee, cigarettes and beer was their main form of sustenance in both rock and metal scenes).

You read a lot about this stuff in the mainstream too - e.g. Kirk Hammett was always quite introverted and his reaction to no guitar solos on St Anger indicates a lack of confidence in himself. Doesn't stop him thrashing out on stage in the world's biggest metal band.



I used to hang out with these crews (and rock and metal scenes were very separate) cause I related to them as a misfit and lack of confidence. As I became more confident and more "mainstream" I started to relate less and less.



Quote:
I think the most logical explanation is the simplest one; they were friends. I think he mentioned at the start of the blog - they've known each other for like 15 years. It's like any other shitty, abusive relationship; simply walking away is easier said than done. You want to believe that the person is going to get their shit together, so you put up with some really awful behavior out of misplaced optimism and loyalty.



Totally agree here.
Alex Fenger
Sitting Fanatic

Posts: 2219

Age: 17


  15.09.2014 at 03:37
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 15.09.2014 at 02:54

Again, there's really nothing to suggest he's impoverished either. He seems to have enough cash to lend to junkie friends that he apparently doesn't need back, as well as record his own albums, and others etc. He has a steady job and a well known band. I'm not sure what Neill Jameson you're seeing but I don't think it's the same one that I am. Then again I don't see fat people or black metallers the same way you do either. By which I mean seeing groups in the form of generalised, reductive armchair psychology.

Deadone just generalizes way too much.
----
Free Palestine!
!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 14919

Age: 30
From: UK

  15.09.2014 at 03:41
Written by Alex Fenger on 15.09.2014 at 03:37

Deadone just generalizes way too much.

Generalisations and extreme black and white examples and logic.
----
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3881
From: Australia

  15.09.2014 at 04:33
Written by Alex Fenger on 15.09.2014 at 03:37

Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 15.09.2014 at 02:54

Again, there's really nothing to suggest he's impoverished either. He seems to have enough cash to lend to junkie friends that he apparently doesn't need back, as well as record his own albums, and others etc. He has a steady job and a well known band. I'm not sure what Neill Jameson you're seeing but I don't think it's the same one that I am. Then again I don't see fat people or black metallers the same way you do either. By which I mean seeing groups in the form of generalised, reductive armchair psychology.

Deadone just generalizes way too much.



The fact he found $50 to be a lot tells me he's not too wealthy. $50 is nothing to your average person with an average job that pays an average salary.

Only people that'll worry about such small amounts are poor people to whom every dollar counts (or cheap skates but then cheap skates don't lend money).

(And no exchange rate issues either - that US$50 is AUD$55). Last time $55 bothered me was when I was poor many many years ago. These days I'm more worried about thousands of dollars (dang that SUV is $40,000 and the deck, paving, renovation to downstairs is $40,000 and how do I fit in $1,000 for that Carcass gig - decisions, decisions).



As for generalising, well Alex and Joe can be unique little flowers (despite their behaviour being extremely predictable) but in reality patterns exist - in fact most of society is based on generalisations be it legal systems, social values and social expectations, marketing of products etc. We're down to a point where banks can determine a client's profitability with reasonable accuracy based on ethnicity alone.

And the fact the Joes acts like a typical music/underground/alternative nerd is great proof that generalisations work. Alex is predictable in terms of responses but has kept most of his personality reasonably well hidden. Other posters are equally cliched too e.g. Marcel's attitudes are just like every other 1980s metal head I've ever met. I'm sure I am cliched too in some or many aspects.

The ones that don't come across predictable are usually the ones from non-Western European backgrounds and that's only because I don't understand their cultural context at all and their English is lacking in culture specific phrases (I know Marcel is Dutch but his English is impeccable). I understand Rasputin though because I understand the Balkan Slav mentality.

We are all molded by various values and general social phenomena and thus display predictable behaviour.
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18673
From: Canada

  15.09.2014 at 05:44
Alright guys, try to stay on topic. Say what you want about Judd and Nachtmystium, but avoid the personal remarks. If you want to talk about generalizations and whatnot then open a statistics thread.
----
Prettier than BloodTears.
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3881
From: Australia

  15.09.2014 at 05:51
Written by Troy Killjoy on 15.09.2014 at 05:44

Alright guys, try to stay on topic. Say what you want about Judd and Nachtmystium, but avoid the personal remarks. If you want to talk about generalizations and whatnot then open a statistics thread.



No probs but you do realise generalisations aren't necessarily about statistics. One would expect university educated people to understand importance of such key components to deductive inferences (but then undergraduate study has been bastardised and watered down in so many western countries).


On topic, Judd's a piece of shit that gives metal a bad name. At least he's true to the Norwegian school of BM by being a piece of shit.
!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 14919

Age: 30
From: UK

  15.09.2014 at 12:39
I'm perfectly fine with generalisations, they can be useful, but there's no skirting around the fact they're a poor substitute for genuine, nuanced insight, especially when your answer to everything is a generalisation. All a generalisation is is boiling a subset down to its most basic and broad interpretation. Apparently through extrapolation deadone seems to think he understands everything about everyone, from me (or my type rather), to famous black metal members, to fat people across the world, but we aren't talking about a large group of people without any specific facts, we're talking about an individual. As deadone says:

Quote:
We can sit here with 20-20 hindsight and no personal experience all we want, but the true situation is unknown.


Actually we're given reasonable amount of insight from Jameson to speculate off. To generally ignore this and blanketly "infer" the argument: "Oh, Jameson is mildly overweight, poor and in a black metal band means he's lacking in confidence in this situation, and in general" not only shows an unwillingness to engage in the topic at hand, but to once again fall back on limited (very limited in deadone's case as he's demonstrated) personal life experiences and vague extreme stereotypes in judging an individual. You can come across as an expert in statistics and demographics but as I've said dealing in false dichotomies, especially in situations like this with specific individuals, is a totally pointless and weak mode of discussion as it provides zero insight into the topic at hand. Discussion should be about balance, especially when judging human beings who can't defend themselves.

And to comment on the 50 dollar thing. I think a poor person is someone who worries about where their next meal is coming from, or whether or not they'll have a roof over their head in a month's time. Not someone who wonders if they'll be able to record their 7th studio album next week, or if they can afford that 6th flight / petrol guzzling road trip away from their job this year to get to that extra slot on the tour they're doing.
----
Doc Godin
Obnoxious

Posts: 9552

Age: 25
From: Canada

  15.09.2014 at 22:09
Written by deadone on 15.09.2014 at 05:51

On topic, Judd's a piece of shit that gives metal a bad name.

Yeah, because of this fiasco, I read in Us Weekly that all metal musicians, and most fans are thieving junkies.
----
"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3881
From: Australia

  16.09.2014 at 02:21
Written by Doc Godin on 15.09.2014 at 22:09

Yeah, because of this fiasco, I read in Us Weekly that all metal musicians, and most fans are thieving junkies.



Whoa that's fucked up. Metal doesn't need this kind of thing, especially in an era of increasing religious fundamentalism and conservatism in government (at least here in Australia).
Apothecary
Black One

Posts: 1790

Age: 21
From: USA

  16.09.2014 at 06:51
Written by deadone on 16.09.2014 at 02:21

Written by Doc Godin on 15.09.2014 at 22:09

Yeah, because of this fiasco, I read in Us Weekly that all metal musicians, and most fans are thieving junkies.

Whoa that's fucked up. Metal doesn't need this kind of thing, especially in an era of increasing religious fundamentalism and conservatism in government (at least here in Australia).

I believe he was being sarcastic
----
"I don't do drugs. I am drugs."
-Salvador Dali
Apothecary
Black One

Posts: 1790

Age: 21
From: USA

  16.09.2014 at 07:02
As far as Judd/Nachmystium is concerned...

It's really tough for me to get too far into this, have a lot of mixed emotions on the subject, especially having struggled with substances myself in the past. I've always loved the music Blake puts out, both under Nachtmystium and otherwise. Touchy-feely moment, Addicts is easily one of the albums most near and dear to my heart, and I've cried over Every Last Drop on more than one occasion. Judd I think is a very talented songwriter who reflects his turmoil in his music, so I can really relate and identify there, because I do as well. I didn't talk to him much, but the few times I did he was always nice and more than willing to respond to my questions about his creative process.

Then again, addicts are great liars, and can fool you the world over. The "he's hooked, he doesn't know what he's doing" argument is legitimate, but after a while it can only go so far. It's fucking complicated, because we'll never be inside the guy's head. I (and I'm sure others as well) just want to say "dude, get your shit together and seek out the help you need." But I can tell you from personal experience that it simply doesn't work that way. He'll get it when he's ready, or when he hits a hard enough brick wall (assuming death doesn't come first). I'll tell you, what Blake really needs is a good amount of time in the joint. Rehab is simply too easy (he's done it two or three times before), a more controlled environment behind bars would be much better to get him to come down from all the smack and take a good time to fully absorb the reality of all the people he's harmed.

The mental sickness of drug abuse is very real, and should never be underestimated. While some of Blake's actions absolutely infuriate me, I definitely feel for him, and I can only hope that in the (hopefully near) future he seeks out the help he needs and begins to make amends. Question is whether or not some people even want his amends at this point, but I suppose he'll cross that bridge when (and if) he comes to it.
----
"I don't do drugs. I am drugs."
-Salvador Dali
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3881
From: Australia

  16.09.2014 at 07:56
Written by Apothecary on 16.09.2014 at 06:51

Written by deadone on 16.09.2014 at 02:21

Written by Doc Godin on 15.09.2014 at 22:09

Yeah, because of this fiasco, I read in Us Weekly that all metal musicians, and most fans are thieving junkies.

Whoa that's fucked up. Metal doesn't need this kind of thing, especially in an era of increasing religious fundamentalism and conservatism in government (at least here in Australia).

I believe he was being sarcastic



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