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Xtreme Jax
Psycroptipath

Posts: 2322

Age: 26
From: Australia

  04.01.2007 at 15:06
Noticed lately that alot of Metalcore bands have been added under the Extreme Metal forum when they fit under the subgenre of Metalcore and clearly NOT under the subgenres that fit under the Extreme Metal (ie: Death, Black, Thrash).

My suggestion is that under the already existing "Main" metal threads threads - General, Melodic, Extreme, Alternative - that the addition of Metalcore be added somewhere in the subtext of the main metal threads,

IMO metalcore doesnt fit under the Extreme Metal thread as the subgenre doesnt fit under the existing genres of Death, Black, and Thrash. With the increase of Metalcore bands being added to Metal Storm the suggestion would making it more more easier (on mods while checking) and more friendly cutting back on the discussion/arguements on what thread the band should be placed under.

Staff / Members thoughts?
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Hellcunt Smurf
wrathchild

Posts: 13915

Age: 32
From: France

  04.01.2007 at 18:14
My personal thought - meaning it is not related to anything discussed among the staff - is that we should remove the Alternative forum and place bands that are not exteme in the Melodic forum, the others in the Extreme forum, regardless of their genre.

Let's take thrash: to me Possessed qualifies as an Extreme sounding band, while Megadeth is a lot more "melodic". Dimmu Borgir would then be discussed in the Melodic forum as it doesn't sound really extreme compared to stuff like Dark Funeral, even though both are black metal bands.
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Dangerboner
:D

Posts: 7206

Age: 27
From: USA

  05.01.2007 at 00:55
People have different perspectives on what's considered brutal or not. I don't see metalcore as a brutal genre and I agree that it should be in the alternative forum.

Bands such as Trivium, God Forbid, and All That Remains are clearly more melodic than exteme and I have no clue why they are in the exteme forum.
Bad English
nobody

Posts: 38463

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  05.01.2007 at 01:22
Written by wrathchild on 04.01.2007 at 18:14



Let's take thrash: to me Possessed qualifies as an Extreme sounding band, while Megadeth is a lot more "melodic". Dimmu Borgir would then be discussed in the Melodic forum as it doesn't sound really extreme compared to stuff like Dark Funeral, even though both are black metal bands.


I agree whit Possessed because its extreme band, ewery thing there are extreme and no doubt about it, but Megadeth i agree its melodic that sound never was like Metallica but thrash are thrash metal and ist extreme but Dimmu Borgir well in that case where we can put ambient BM or industrial BM like Samael, Diabolical mascarade and Melodic BM, because IMO melodic BM its melodic not extreme, extreme stuff there are vocals
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Stigmatized
..........

Posts: 3819

Age: 25
From: USA

  05.01.2007 at 02:10
I think metalcore should be put into the "Alternative Metal" forum. From my experience, most people consider metalcore a form of Alternative metal. I think that would be the most fitting place.
Eternal Flames

Posts: 1570

Age: 24
From: Australia

  05.01.2007 at 05:12
I agree with Dream of Hate. Metalcore should be placed in the Alternative Metal forum, but seeing as a lot of people see a number of metalcore bands as extreme, maybe then we should have a sub-forum for metalcore. However, I don't think we should remove the Alternative Metal forum. Yet then I think we would have a lot of confusion about which bands belong in which sub-forum. I think there would be a lot of arguments regarding the bands' genre and I think that it would then get out of hand.

Personally, I think it's fine the way it is, but I think maybe the staff members should post what they actually think of which genres belong where. Personally, I've always judged which band belongs where by the titles below each forum. For example, in the Extreme Metal forum, it's got "Black / death / thrash metal". Therefore, I think that clearly explains which bands belong there. In my opinion, I think that even melodic black metal and melodic death metal bands fit into this forum, despite that they have a more melodic sound. But of course, the majority of staff and members think otherwise and I respect that and abide by their opinions.
Promonex
Cathemeral

Posts: 9590

Age: 29
From: Germany

  05.01.2007 at 12:47
Metalcore should definitely be in the alternative forum, but the question is where the border between metalcore and extreme metal is. Trivium's newest album is definitely thrash metal, with some occasional annoying metalcore vocals, but all in all its thrash metal. Lamb of God doesn't even have those vocals and the metalcore elements are just marginal. So the problem is to decide when something is metalcore, perhaps with slight thrash influences (BFMV, Atreyu, A7X), and when something is thrash metal with metalcore influences (LoG, Trivium, Shadows Fall). There's no doubt though that pure metalcore belongs to the alternative metal category.
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Bitch Boy
XD

Posts: 1353

Age: 28
From: Mexico

  19.02.2007 at 06:25
I also think metalcore bands should be placed in the Alternative Metal forum. And, if the staff thinks that it's the correct forum to place these bands, the label "metalcore" should be added with "Industrial / avantgarde / stoner / nu metal".

In my very own opinion, I don't think that the Alternative Metal forum should disappear, it would create confusions if we clasify "this metalcore band as melodic" and "this metalcore band as extreme". Same with moving old thrash or melo-black metal bands to the melodic forum. I have always had the doubt about, for example, Dark Tranquillity in the melodic forum, and Megadeth in the extreme one. Megadeth is (was) thrash and I think they should be still in the extreme forum, but DT is more extreme than Megadeth, so...
Warman
Erotic Stains

Posts: 7458

Age: 24
From: Sweden

  19.02.2007 at 19:06
The Alternative metal forum is the place where they fit they best IMO. But I admit that it sometimes can be hard to define where it fits...
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+{Jonas}+
I R Serious Cat

Posts: 4955

Age: 28
From: Colombia

  24.03.2007 at 04:37
Written by Warman on 19.02.2007 at 19:06

The Alternative metal forum is the place where they fit they best IMO. But I admit that it sometimes can be hard to define where it fits...

I completely agree.
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Paganblood
The Aryaputra

Posts: 1194

Age: 28
From: Nepal

  24.03.2007 at 05:28
My opinion is, metalcore should be placed either in alternative metal forum or in rock forum(where Rock / hard rock / punk / grunge are discussed), because its a fusion of punk as well (that's what '-core' means isn't it?).
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that which shines without names and forms...
Paganblood
The Aryaputra

Posts: 1194

Age: 28
From: Nepal

  24.03.2007 at 05:43
Written by wrathchild on 04.01.2007 at 18:14

Let's take thrash: to me Possessed qualifies as an Extreme sounding band, while Megadeth is a lot more "melodic". Dimmu Borgir would then be discussed in the Melodic forum as it doesn't sound really extreme compared to stuff like Dark Funeral, even though both are black metal bands.

Ah yes, Possessed's 'seven churches' is death metal album and their other albums are also 'extreme' sounding. But Dark Funeral is no less melodic than Dimmu Borgir (however DB isn't as extreme sounding as DF).
What about melodic extreme metal bands? For example, where do melodic death/black metal bands go, although they sound extreme/brutal/raw?
btw is the genre 'melodic metal' 'official'? because I see this only here on MS(or at least haven't noticed it elsewhere)... moreover, any subgenre of metal could have melody in it.
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that which shines without names and forms...
APOHAKC
The Bard

Posts: 3585

Age: 27
From: Serbia

  16.07.2007 at 19:00
They belong to some other forum (web page)

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Bad English
nobody

Posts: 38463

Age: 29
From: Sweden

  16.07.2007 at 19:16
Written by APOHAKC on 16.07.2007 at 19:00

They belong to some other forum (web page)




I agree man about it heheh because those bands are to many and I better dont coment what I wanna say
But moust metalcore bands has one 2 demo and its like moust new bands who hasnt reach a top

Its long way if you wanna be in top of rock n roll Ac/Dc
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Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Dane Train
Beers & Kilts

Posts: 8896

Age: 30
From: USA

  24.07.2007 at 04:01
Well, what genre of Metal is Metalcore closest to? Death Metal. When I hear Killswitch Engage, Demon Hunter, Still Remains, etc. I am not thinking, oh melodic metal, I am thinking more extreme. Are they as "brutal" as some Death Metal bands? Of course not, but compare Lamb of God to Fates Warning or Sonata Arctica. Who is more extreme?
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Syk
myspace/bonerama

Posts: 1504

Age: 26
From: New Zealand

  23.08.2007 at 06:06
Written by Dane Train on 24.07.2007 at 04:01

Well, what genre of Metal is Metalcore closest to? Death Metal. When I hear Killswitch Engage, Demon Hunter, Still Remains, etc. I am not thinking, oh melodic metal, I am thinking more extreme. Are they as "brutal" as some Death Metal bands? Of course not, but compare Lamb of God to Fates Warning or Sonata Arctica. Who is more extreme?

Actually, it's closest to heavy metal... just a lot of the bands take influence from death, just like thrash and some even black etc. At its CORE it really is punk though. I vote stick with the alternative metal section.
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Metal Meltdown

Posts: 35

Age: 24
From: USA

  11.05.2009 at 19:09
Written by Paganblood on 24.03.2007 at 05:28

My opinion is, metalcore should be placed either in alternative metal forum or in rock forum(where Rock / hard rock / punk / grunge are discussed), because its a fusion of punk as well (that's what '-core' means isn't it?).

To me hardcore should be put in the alt and rock section. metalcore comes from blending hardcore with more traditional heavy metal (heavy, thrash, death, etc.). and the word hardcore comes from hardrock mixed with more brutal punk (brutal by there standards lol). There should be a "core" listing with sub(sub) genres [ei- Thrashcore (God Forbid), Deathcore (Job For A Cowboy), and regular metalcore (As we Fight - A7X)].
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Immortal soul, takes control! Immortal soul, Thrash till Death!
(death To "posthardcore")
Metal Meltdown

Posts: 35

Age: 24
From: USA

  11.05.2009 at 22:52
Or we could just delete and burn it all...
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Immortal soul, takes control! Immortal soul, Thrash till Death!
(death To "posthardcore")
Ph0eNiX
Fire from Above

Posts: 418

Age: 34
From: USA

  12.05.2009 at 04:05
They have that "cock rock" banner across the top of the screen with Brett Michaels on it... Can't we just send them to that page there and be done with it? (It's basically a new version of that scene as it is.)
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Doc Godin
Obnoxious

Posts: 9579

Age: 25
From: Canada

  25.11.2010 at 00:12
Written by Metal Meltdown on 11.05.2009 at 22:52

Or we could just delete and burn it all...

Funny coming from a guy who has both DevilDriver and 3 Inches of Blood in his fav bands list, both bands dabbled in metalcore at one point or another.

Also, Municipal Waste - if you look at the technical definition of "metalcore" they actually fit the definition quite well. Which brings me to my next point, are you trying to be ironic when you put "death to hardcore" on your profile when you have MW listed in your favourite bands? That band is as much hardcore as it is metal, if not more so.

Before attempting elitism, it's good to know what your talking about.
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"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
Metal Meltdown

Posts: 35

Age: 24
From: USA

  25.11.2010 at 07:20
Written by Doc Godin on 25.11.2010 at 00:12

Written by Metal Meltdown on 11.05.2009 at 22:52

Or we could just delete and burn it all...

Funny coming from a guy who has both DevilDriver and 3 Inches of Blood in his fav bands list, both bands dabbled in metalcore at one point or another.

Also, Municipal Waste - if you look at the technical definition of "metalcore" they actually fit the definition quite well. Which brings me to my next point, are you trying to be ironic when you put "death to hardcore" on your profile when you have MW listed in your favourite bands? That band is as much hardcore as it is metal, if not more so.

Before attempting elitism, it's good to know what your talking about.


ok if i must clearify, i do believe in death to hardcore but more specifically "Post Hardcore" it was the be fad a few years back now its settled down on metalcore. there are a few good bands in the old school styles of hardcore hardcore/punk, when there was an actual meaning to it, a new example of a more old school hardcore band would be comeback kid (ive only heard wake the dead before btw), not the best of bands but not bad or worth killing. the type of bands my comments refer to is Norma Jean and Underoath. they just seem conserned with be more "hardcore" then anyone else, theyve taken there name to far. if it would make u happy i can change it to "death to post hardcore" but honestly the surge of metalcore is overdoing its self, u can find good examples but there not worth it.
as for the other band refrences im a instrumentalist, and 3 inches of blood's first 2 albums stuck to good heavy/power metal instrumentals, altho there 2nd singer does use screatchy metalcoreish vocals, but he rarely went on tour with them (guitarist did his vocals) and hes not even in the band anymore, i stopped listening after fire up the blades, so i can take that off, ByWar would be good to add. municipal waste is punk thrash band with lots of influnces from old school hardcore/punk and thrash, let me know the day they do a entire song thats a breakdown.
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Immortal soul, takes control! Immortal soul, Thrash till Death!
(death To "posthardcore")
Doc Godin
Obnoxious

Posts: 9579

Age: 25
From: Canada

  25.11.2010 at 07:36
Written by Metal Meltdown on 25.11.2010 at 07:20

Written by Doc Godin on 25.11.2010 at 00:12

Written by Metal Meltdown on 11.05.2009 at 22:52

Or we could just delete and burn it all...

Funny coming from a guy who has both DevilDriver and 3 Inches of Blood in his fav bands list, both bands dabbled in metalcore at one point or another.

Also, Municipal Waste - if you look at the technical definition of "metalcore" they actually fit the definition quite well. Which brings me to my next point, are you trying to be ironic when you put "death to hardcore" on your profile when you have MW listed in your favourite bands? That band is as much hardcore as it is metal, if not more so.

Before attempting elitism, it's good to know what your talking about.


ok if i must clearify, i do believe in death to hardcore but more specifically "Post Hardcore" it was the be fad a few years back now its settled down on metalcore. there are a few good bands in the old school styles of hardcore hardcore/punk, when there was an actual meaning to it, a new example of a more old school hardcore band would be comeback kid (ive only heard wake the dead before btw), not the best of bands but not bad or worth killing. the type of bands my comments refer to is Norma Jean and Underoath. they just seem conserned with be more "hardcore" then anyone else, theyve taken there name to far. if it would make u happy i can change it to "death to post hardcore" but honestly the surge of metalcore is overdoing its self, u can find good examples but there not worth it.
as for the other band refrences im a instrumentalist, and 3 inches of blood's first 2 albums stuck to good heavy/power metal instrumentals, altho there 2nd singer does use screatchy metalcoreish vocals, but he rarely went on tour with them (guitarist did his vocals) and hes not even in the band anymore, i stopped listening after fire up the blades, so i can take that off, ByWar would be good to add. municipal waste is punk thrash band with lots of influnces from old school hardcore/punk and thrash, let me know the day they do a entire song thats a breakdown.

He toured with them consistently up until he pretty much lost his voice. It's only after he stepped down that the guitarist started doing harsh vocals.

As for Municipal Waste being metalcore, the technical definition of what metalcore is hardcore mixed with extreme metal, Municipal Waste is original hardcore with thrash metal. Breakdowns are a big part of metalcore these days but it doesn't define the genre.
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"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
m14762mmfmj

Posts: 3
From: USA
  29.11.2010 at 23:14
What about Mathcore bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan? Mathcore is often considered a subset of metalcore, but many of the bands are extreme in that they use extremely complex time signatures and guitar work. They may not be brutal or dark but it seems to me that if The Dillinger Escape Plan is not Extreme then that word has lost it's meaning.
SuicidalCyco
No Mercy

Posts: 491

Age: 21
From: USA

  05.01.2012 at 18:42
Are people here takling about metalcore or deathcore? The real kind of metalcore is thrash metal and hardcore punk mixed. Bands that are metalcore are S.O.D. and Municipal Waste like Doc Godin said. It seems like most of the bands stated here are more on the lines of deathcore, but metalcore has come a long way from its start in the 80s. So i could be wrong or right, but anyways to stay on topic i think metalcore should go in the extreme metal forum.
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The sun may never set on the British empire, but it never sets on my asshole either.
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist

Posts: 18673
From: Canada

  05.01.2012 at 20:54
Written by SuicidalCyco on 05.01.2012 at 18:42
Are people here takling about metalcore or deathcore?

Both. People are forgetting metalcore spawned the melodic metalcore sub-genre.

Metalcore also evolved with the likes of Zao and Converge before bands like As I Lay Dying and Killswitch Engage came out.
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theFIST

Posts: 851

Age: 22
From: Austria

  05.01.2012 at 22:03
Written by SuicidalCyco on 05.01.2012 at 18:42

Are people here takling about metalcore or deathcore? The real kind of metalcore is thrash metal and hardcore punk mixed. Bands that are metalcore are S.O.D. and Municipal Waste like Doc Godin said. It seems like most of the bands stated here are more on the lines of deathcore, but metalcore has come a long way from its start in the 80s. So i could be wrong or right, but anyways to stay on topic i think metalcore should go in the extreme metal forum.

i heard that the mix you mean, in a modern form, is now thrashcore
a few modern metalcore bands (example: Heaven Shall Burn) could fit into the extreme forum, yet that trendcore stuff that is most of nowaday"s core should, at best, be thrown out to another site, or if that is impossible get either a core forum or posts in the alternative forum
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Written by Warman on 07.11.2007 at 22:39
Haha, that's like saying "compose your own Metal album and upload it here, instead of writing a review of an album".
BlueMobius
Ronin

Posts: 1256

Age: 27
From: USA

  22.08.2012 at 02:56
Hmm, this is an interesting topic because I've thought alternative was kind of a misnomer for a lot of the bands in that forum. I think a lot of the alternative stuff could be put in melodic metal and some of the edgier stuff like Kylesa, which I consider sludge metal to be extreme, could go into the extreme metal forum. Either the bands need to be moved or the forum needs a more accurate name because I think a lot of people see "Alternative" and think, "Pff, not going there. Don't want to see a bunch of bands like Mushroomhead," and then they miss out on learning about some truly awesome bands in the crust, post metal, hardcore, sludge and stoner genres.
IronAngel

Posts: 4393

Age: 25
From: Finland

  22.08.2012 at 13:56
I really don't see the point of so many seperate forums as is. It encourages elitism, tunnel vision and pointless arguments about "what goes where." It's really hard to keep track of everything that happens on these forums, because it's split into so many subcategories. We have about 5 active forum posters per forum category, if I had to wager a guess. (Though those posters obviously visit many subforums.) It's a bit excessive for a poster base that is, ultimately, as small as ours.
Ganondox

Posts: 463

Age: 18
From: USA

  30.06.2014 at 04:14
At it's roots, metalcore is definately based in extreme metal. A lot of it is heavier than thrash and the like, it's just some the latter melodic bands are softer, so band like Bullet For My Valentine mighrt fit better as melodic metal. However, latter hardcore fusions like Sludge are being thrown under alternative metal here rather than extreme metal,, so with this forum's classifications it seems to make the most sense to categorize it as alternative. It makes no sense to put it in the rock forum, as it's definately metal, it's less punk than many of the hardcore fusions that are listed in other forums. I think Bitch Boy has the right idea, put the label under the alternative metal forum, otherwise people may put it in any of the forums as depending on the band it could fit in any of them.

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