Written by Damnated on 29.02.2008 at 16:56

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 09:19

BM nowadays is like an inside joke. not dangerous, offcourse NOT evil and everyone is full of clichés and stupidity! and about music, they are copying all the time Bathory, Mayhem, Burzum and Darkthrone and some other good bands that did something for the genre! nothing new, nothing special, nothing revolutionary, this genre is dead.

there are good new bands. just check out the orthodox scene. not everything is top notch and brilliance, but the the current state is good and promising.

yeah I know man, I'm a fan of orthodox / religious black metal too. bands like Watain, Ondskapt, Ofermod, Funeral Mist, Antaeus and offcourse Deathspell Omega etc. this is the only "original" and true black metal form than any other "black metal" today! that's exactly why I said in the other topic that nsbm and pagan black metal are NOT black metal. but I'm afraid that it's gonna be something like a trend also, many bands that aren't playing orthodox / religious black metal will change to have more fans. it's just business and money after all...

@Thisshithits: Sorry if you feel personally offended. I didn't intend to do so. I'm just so sick and tired of most of today's BM fans, and their attitude. Perhaps I should stop reading the MA forums though.

Oh and by the way, I think today's Black Metal scene is REALLY strong. The amount of bands has multiplied by a 100 since 'the early days', but the number of worthwhile bands has multiplied by the same number, roughly. There's a lot of crap to wade through, that's right, but there is also so much to find.

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 17:37

but I'm afraid that it's gonna be something like a trend also, many bands that aren't playing orthodox / religious black metal will change to have more fans. it's just business and money after all...

it's already a trend i'm afraid. there's already an orthodox black metal band from Iceland ffs.. but if more bands start to play this kind of black metal, chances are good that something good will appear too .

Written by Damnated on 29.02.2008 at 18:10

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 17:37

but I'm afraid that it's gonna be something like a trend also, many bands that aren't playing orthodox / religious black metal will change to have more fans. it's just business and money after all...

it's already a trend i'm afraid. there's already an orthodox black metal band from Iceland ffs.. but if more bands start to play this kind of black metal, chances are good that something good will appear too .

I disagree, can you imagine Dark Funeral's orthodox black metal version ? hahah it's funny you know, most of the bands nowadays cannot just turn into religious shit and starting copy DSO or Funeral Mist's style.

Written by Lucas on 29.02.2008 at 17:59
Oh and by the way, I think today's Black Metal scene is REALLY strong. The amount of bands has multiplied by a 100 since 'the early days', but the number of worthwhile bands has multiplied by the same number, roughly. There's a lot of crap to wade through, that's right, but there is also so much to find.

I also disagree. too many bands are not good, especially when they're playing with the same style. it's boring to hear everyone copying whatever sells, everything for money. and it's hard to find some really good and creative bands in all these shit...

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 18:28

Written by Damnated on 29.02.2008 at 18:10

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 17:37

but I'm afraid that it's gonna be something like a trend also, many bands that aren't playing orthodox / religious black metal will change to have more fans. it's just business and money after all...

it's already a trend i'm afraid. there's already an orthodox black metal band from Iceland ffs.. but if more bands start to play this kind of black metal, chances are good that something good will appear too .

I disagree, can you imagine Dark Funeral's orthodox black metal version ? hahah it's funny you know, most of the bands nowadays cannot just turn into religious shit and starting copy DSO or Funeral Mist's style.

you misunderstood me, i meant it's a trend to start an orthodox black metal band.

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 18:28

I also disagree. too many bands are not good, especially when they're playing with the same style. it's boring to hear everyone copying whatever sells, everything for money. and it's hard to find some really good and creative bands in all these shit...

Hm, so if a band wants to deserve money with their music then they should play black metal? I don't understand that. Black metal is generally a genre that is hard to enjoy for most people. Also, black metal has a relatively small fanbase. Why would a band play black metal, or copy a black metal band, when they want to earn some quick money?

Written by AntaeusM on 29.02.2008 at 19:12

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 18:28

I also disagree. too many bands are not good, especially when they're playing with the same style. it's boring to hear everyone copying whatever sells, everything for money. and it's hard to find some really good and creative bands in all these shit...

Hm, so if a band wants to deserve money with their music then they should play black metal? I don't understand that. Black metal is generally a genre that is hard to enjoy for most people. Also, black metal has a relatively small fanbase. Why would a band play black metal, or copy a black metal band, when they want to earn some quick money?

ah dont ask me about that, ask THEM, every little kiddo and teenager nerd who buy a guitar and start scratching bullshit music and noise, and then recording some of his shit in the computer, make a profile in myspace.com and start selling music. I still trying to find an answer why every kid is trying to do this, their music sucks and it is copy from Darkthrone or Bathory or Burzum or Mayhem or Dimmu Borgir as i said. nothing new to the genre, just copy copy copy...

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 19:36

Written by AntaeusM on 29.02.2008 at 19:12

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 18:28

I also disagree. too many bands are not good, especially when they're playing with the same style. it's boring to hear everyone copying whatever sells, everything for money. and it's hard to find some really good and creative bands in all these shit...

Hm, so if a band wants to deserve money with their music then they should play black metal? I don't understand that. Black metal is generally a genre that is hard to enjoy for most people. Also, black metal has a relatively small fanbase. Why would a band play black metal, or copy a black metal band, when they want to earn some quick money?

ah dont ask me about that, ask THEM, every little kiddo and teenager nerd who buy a guitar and start scratching bullshit music and noise, and then recording some of his shit in the computer, make a profile in myspace.com and start selling music. I still trying to find an answer why every kid is trying to do this, their music sucks and it is copy from Darkthrone or Bathory or Burzum or Mayhem or Dimmu Borgir as i said. nothing new to the genre, just copy copy copy...

Man, sorry to say this, but you've really lost perspective on these matters. While it is true that a lot of bands copy the 'Norwegians', or better said, the Second Wave, this will never make them rich!

A lot of people forget that if a band has a 100 fans on 10.000 MetalStormers, this formula cannot be applied to the 5.000.000.000 people on earth. Black Metal will never be a mainstream genre (and that means, no one will ever be able to make some serious profit out of it.) And let's just keep it this way.

If musicians are smart enough to think to themselves: 'hey, let's just copy and artist and make millions', they should also be smart enough to figure out that it won't work in a scene such as Black Metal's scene.

black metal is probally the fastest growing metal scene now, even tough many try to keep it underground.
black metal also has the most posers and tr00 metalheads wich create their own shitty basement bands, there are so many of these bands that in mine opion it is killing black metal, I got nothing against raw black metal but there is a lack of balance. still black metal is mine favorite of the extreme metal genre's, it doesn't get boring quickly like most thrash metal and death metal for me and I like the dark atmosphere of the music.

Written by Lucas on 29.02.2008 at 21:34

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 19:36

Written by AntaeusM on 29.02.2008 at 19:12

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 18:28

I also disagree. too many bands are not good, especially when they're playing with the same style. it's boring to hear everyone copying whatever sells, everything for money. and it's hard to find some really good and creative bands in all these shit...

Hm, so if a band wants to deserve money with their music then they should play black metal? I don't understand that. Black metal is generally a genre that is hard to enjoy for most people. Also, black metal has a relatively small fanbase. Why would a band play black metal, or copy a black metal band, when they want to earn some quick money?

ah dont ask me about that, ask THEM, every little kiddo and teenager nerd who buy a guitar and start scratching bullshit music and noise, and then recording some of his shit in the computer, make a profile in myspace.com and start selling music. I still trying to find an answer why every kid is trying to do this, their music sucks and it is copy from Darkthrone or Bathory or Burzum or Mayhem or Dimmu Borgir as i said. nothing new to the genre, just copy copy copy...

Man, sorry to say this, but you've really lost perspective on these matters. While it is true that a lot of bands copy the 'Norwegians', or better said, the Second Wave, this will never make them rich!

A lot of people forget that if a band has a 100 fans on 10.000 MetalStormers, this formula cannot be applied to the 5.000.000.000 people on earth. Black Metal will never be a mainstream genre (and that means, no one will ever be able to make some serious profit out of it.) And let's just keep it this way.

If musicians are smart enough to think to themselves: 'hey, let's just copy and artist and make millions', they should also be smart enough to figure out that it won't work in a scene such as Black Metal's scene.

yeah maybe, if this is your opinion. just go there in myspace.com and try to search for black metal bands to see how many kids are playing with this and trying to compose music. on the other hand, maybe you are right, it is just a site only, not the whole world.

I still disagree though with your last words, black metal is something evil, we all know that evil, violence and sex are selling like crazy. cant you find too many Dimmu Borgir clones around ? or maybe Darkthrone's clones ? take a look at metal-archives.com you will be suprised! and also, you forget that we can see this music even at MTV nowadays. even Watain did it! it's not exactly "mainstream" like pop or hip hop, but in the metal world, black metal is already mainstream with bands like Cradle of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, Satyricon...

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 23:30

yeah maybe, if this is your opinion.

This is not my opinion. It is a fact. Black metal is not mainstream, because it does not sell.

Quote:
just go there in myspace.com and try to search for black metal bands to see how many kids are playing with this and trying to compose music. on the other hand, maybe you are right, it is just a site only, not the whole world. I still disagree though with your last words, black metal is something evil, we all know that evil, violence and sex are selling like crazy. cant you find too many Dimmu Borgir clones around ? or maybe Darkthrone's clones ? take a look at metal-archives.com you will be suprised!

I am not denying that there are hundreds, thousands, millions of WORTHLESS bands out there, doing nothing but copying Darkthrone. But even those brainless 'musicians' do it because they WANT to, not because they can get rich with it. Cause they can't.

Quote:
and also, you forget that we can see this music even at MTV nowadays. even Watain did it! it's not exactly "mainstream" like pop or hip hop, but in the metal world, black metal is already mainstream with bands like Cradle of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, Satyricon...

Watain on MTV does surprise me. And I've seen both CoF and Dimmu on it, that's right. But still, these are incidents instead of regulars, and I bet they were on when it was 'rock night' or something like that.

Fact is: Black Metal = underground, even if it is slightly less underground than in its early days. It'll never be a genre of profit or mainstream success. Call that a fact or my opinion, whatever you wish.

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 09:19

you are only 16 years old but your opinion is excellent! I agree especially with the problem with BM you said, BM nowadays is like an inside joke. not dangerous, offcourse NOT evil and everyone is full of clichés and stupidity! and about music, they are copying all the time Bathory, Mayhem, Burzum and Darkthrone and some other good bands that did something for the genre! nothing new, nothing special, nothing revolutionary, this genre is dead.

and fuck off with the black metal magic. there is no magic, it's all about the image and stupidity of the internet and bands. nothing happens in the real world and black metal is just another genre with atmosphere, nothing more, nothing less. every nerd and stupid teenager kiddo can do it, crappy music, corpse paint and a profile in myspace.com is everything you need and bingo, you are a trve kvlt black metal satanik elitistik uber misanthropik nazi!

I'll agree with you that alot of BM musicians tend to get full of themselves because they would probably think that their approach to music is the correct and only way to view it. That's why the BM scene tends to be very close minded and the very dedicated fans who would fall upon a band that is not "kvlt" would say that this act is not worth their time or wtv. And that is a problem, because alot of BM musicians surely think the same way, they are so stuck up to the genre and the image, that they think they must be like every other band out there. I think that Darkthrone is the band that spreaded this sort of stereotype, because they're great, they've got all the elements : cold sounding, grim, satanic, you name it. But the goal of music is to find new elements, not reproduce the same thing over and over again. The bands of the genre that i think are doing a good job at maintaining their own sound would be Anaal Nathrakh, Vreid and Melechesh.

What i mean about BM "magic" is that the atmosphere is very emoving and creates a mood in you while you listen to it. It tranforms you into one negative motherfucker .

Written by Lucas on 29.02.2008 at 23:35


This is not my opinion. It is a fact. Black metal is not mainstream, because it does not sell.

Quote:

Fact is: Black Metal = underground, even if it is slightly less underground than in its early days. It'll never be a genre of profit or mainstream success. Call that a fact or my opinion, whatever you wish.

to end this, I will agree that it is not so mainstream like pop or hip hop, like I said in my last post, but yes it is mainstream in the metalworld now, very mainstream. bands like Dimmu Borgir or Cradle of Filth are in the same level (at least for me) as Metallica or Iron Maiden.
still underground are the amateurs bands maybe, those with only a demo, the kiddos I said before, because they are just a myspace Darkthrone copy and nothing more. but all these addicted to black metal kids are thinking about money and fame, exactly like their black metal "heroes", even if this music does not sell like pop or hip hop...

Written by Visioneerie on 29.02.2008 at 23:58
I'll agree with you that alot of BM musicians tend to get full of themselves because they would probably think that their approach to music is the correct and only way to view it. That's why the BM scene tends to be very close minded and the very dedicated fans who would fall upon a band that is not "kvlt" would say that this act is not worth their time or wtv. And that is a problem, because alot of BM musicians surely think the same way, they are so stuck up to the genre and the image, that they think they must be like every other band out there. I think that Darkthrone is the band that spreaded this sort of stereotype, because they're great, they've got all the elements : cold sounding, grim, satanic, you name it. But the goal of music is to find new elements, not reproduce the same thing over and over again. The bands of the genre that i think are doing a good job at maintaining their own sound would be Anaal Nathrakh, Vreid and Melechesh.

What i mean about BM "magic" is that the atmosphere is very emoving and creates a mood in you while you listen to it. It tranforms you into one negative motherfucker .

glad you can understand. but I will disagree about Darkthrone, they are not so "evil" like Funeral Mist or DSO, it's just an average black metal band BUT they have a revolutionary sound, they created and still are trying to evolve the genre, to create something new and unique, trendstarters in other words. I also agree with Marduk and Anaal Nathrakh, they have their own sound, I don't agree with Vreid so much... but it's ok I can understand if they are in your personal favourites...

Written by NOИ on 01.03.2008 at 00:50

to end this, I will agree that it is not so mainstream like pop or hip hop, like I said in my last post, but yes it is mainstream in the metalworld now, very mainstream. bands like Dimmu Borgir or Cradle of Filth are in the same level (at least for me) as Metallica or Iron Maiden.
still underground are the amateurs bands maybe, those with only a demo, the kiddos I said before, because they are just a myspace Darkthrone copy and nothing more. but all these addicted to black metal kids are thinking about money and fame, exactly like their black metal "heroes", even if this music does not sell like pop or hip hop...

Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir just as popular as Metallica and Iron Maiden? hm, that is a very questionable statement. Metallica and Iron Maiden both reach mainstream attention and are even bands who are pictured first, or are mentioned first, when talking about metal. Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir both still have a long way to go to become this famous. And why do you hate myspace so much? It is definitely not my type of thing, but it is ridiculous to say that a band becomes crappy because they have a myspace page. Myspace is a great way to promote new bands. You can also use myspace just for promotion, you don't need to fuse with the culture there. And uh..was Darkthrone ever thinking about money? If they were then they wouldn't have created albums with a bad production, or keep the music as noncatchy as possible. Darkthrone solely wanted to make a statement, and that's what they did with their music. Sadly a lot of people didn't understand the statement.

Written by NOИ on 01.03.2008 at 00:50

glad you can understand. but I will disagree about Darkthrone, they are not so "evil" like Funeral Mist or DSO, it's just an average black metal band BUT they have a revolutionary sound, they created and still are trying to evolve the genre, to create something new and unique, trendstarters in other words. I also agree with Marduk and Anaal Nathrakh, they have their own sound, I don't agree with Vreid so much... but it's ok I can understand if they are in your personal favourites...

There is no such thing as good and evil. You can't say a black metal band is evil. Music can sound overwhelming, diabolical, depressive or dark, by well-known methods, but music can never become evil. A black metal musician has exactly the same type of life as a random Christian Rock musician. They have a different view of life, but not one of them is more or less evil than the other. if you want "black metal" bands that are trying to evolve the genre, then don't mention bands such as Funeral Mist or Deathspell Omega. They are just keeping the flame alive, by creating - in your opinion - good black metal. Evolving the genre is an entire different topic, and requires a lot more than just being a good black metal band.

Written by AntaeusM on 01.03.2008 at 03:03
Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir just as popular as Metallica and Iron Maiden? hm, that is a very questionable statement. Metallica and Iron Maiden both reach mainstream attention and are even bands who are pictured first, or are mentioned first, when talking about metal. Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir both still have a long way to go to become this famous. And why do you hate myspace so much? It is definitely not my type of thing, but it is ridiculous to say that a band becomes crappy because they have a myspace page. Myspace is a great way to promote new bands. You can also use myspace just for promotion, you don't need to fuse with the culture there. And uh..was Darkthrone ever thinking about money? If they were then they wouldn't have created albums with a bad production, or keep the music as noncatchy as possible. Darkthrone solely wanted to make a statement, and that's what they did with their music. Sadly a lot of people didn't understand the statement.

perhaps you should read again my last post, I said for me personally these bands are at the same level as Metallica and Iron Maiden. just go ahead and ask to someone about black metal bands, he will surely answer you Dimmu Borgir and CoF! offcourse if you tell it to someone who is now starting his collection in metal, he maybe not know these bands. it's all about experience I think.

and about myspace, believe me I don't hate it too much, I also have a profile there and have fun and stuff... but I can NOT stand the fake and childish attitude of black metal kiddos when they're trying to copy other bands and acting like an elite, they did it with a totally stupid and crappy way, they're making me sick!!! same goes for the fake attitude that many bands like Satanic Warmaster have, just take a look and read www.myspace.com/opferblut

and finally to answer you about Darkthrone, yes they are, at least a little bit. if they aren't, they would NOT release their albums from a label. but it's ok with Darkthrone and do you know why ? because they have a history and they did something for this genre, other bands just NOT, they are simple copying them!

Written by AntaeusM on 01.03.2008 at 03:03
There is no such thing as good and evil. You can't say a black metal band is evil. Music can sound overwhelming, diabolical, depressive or dark, by well-known methods, but music can never become evil. A black metal musician has exactly the same type of life as a random Christian Rock musician. They have a different view of life, but not one of them is more or less evil than the other. if you want "black metal" bands that are trying to evolve the genre, then don't mention bands such as Funeral Mist or Deathspell Omega. They are just keeping the flame alive, by creating - in your opinion - good black metal. Evolving the genre is an entire different topic, and requires a lot more than just being a good black metal band.

duh, when I am saying "evil" I mean about the image, lyrics, ideology and stuff like that. Darkthrone are not Deathspell Omega for example, they don't have lyrics about Satanism and especially Religious Satanism etc. they are an average band talking about Norway and nature, and maybe a little bit misanthropy here and there...

Funeral Mist and DSO actually did something new for the genre! and I am not talking about the image and lyrics now, I am talking about their music! you can hear the difference I think, they evolve black metal to another level. before Funeral Mist's Salvation album, there wasn't much bands who are using samples from church bells and stuff like that, producing a disturbed atmosphere remind us a christian torture or other things like that, in Salvation album I think we can hear all this for the first time, in a way more religious I will say. anyway, it's hard to describe those feelings and music, so you better try to hear this album for yourself and compare it with Darkthrone or any other black metal album...

Written by Bitter Dawn on 18.11.2007 at 01:17

Admitedly, black metal does have some goofy participants; usually on the fan's behalf. Something that does bother me is the popularity black metal has gained, thankfully it's still not quite mainstream, but with the likes of Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir being promoted by Hot Topic is just disgusting - which is a shame because Dimmu are/were a great band.

It's hard to really sum up why black metal is something more than a bunch of noise, but black metal hold's a value that is differant than other genre's of metal. For me, black metal is the only type of music that is worth something and means something more, because the lyric's aren't burdened by content that appeals to the status quo. There are not song's about being a rockstar, or going to the club's, or that summer love or any of that other crap that flood's the radio's. Black metal show's the bleaker (and often more true) sides of life, how shitty this world is and it's people in it, but it can also give a person strength by embracing our heritage and old way's, before this world was polluted with Jeudo-Christian influence's; yet, it doesn't have to mean anti-Christian. Endorsing Satanism or Luciferism, is equivolent to encouraging all form's of Jeudo-Christianity.

BM is also the most extreme sounding and literally living music, it's more of a lifestyle than a type of music; at least for some of us. If you don't like black metal, then you probably never will, and it's not the right type of music for you.

Exactly, you've nailed it on the head. I personally find black metal the form of metal that most affects the mood. Maybe it's because i'm a negativist and a nihilist and i think the world does suck. the vocals... well, i wouldn't have been able to listen to BM if i'd've focused on the lyrics at first. However, the instrumental music appealed to me immediately. Yeah, I started with the big sellouts, Dimmu, but there are some great BM bands out there who can express feelings better than through any other type of music... And athmospheric/ambient bm is often heavily based on instrumental parts, not mainly vocals.
Why? Because it's pure feeling, from the inner soul of the bandmembers (soul not in a christian sense)... Frankly I'd rather listen to satanist music than the shit talking about how a random artist loved, cheated, lost, got drunk, and screwed etc... pop themes. I'm not really a christian, not really a satanist, just an atheist/deist, so BM's themes aren't repulsive to me at all, unlike the freaking shit on the radio.

I understand completely why some of you hate this genre.It's the same reason I hate metallica: i think it sounds like shite. you think this sounds like shite. ok... let it go, i'm not saying it's the right genre for everybody, but it's perfect for me.

I dont mind some Black Metal. But I'm a Death Metal fan. Theres very little Black Metal out there that I can get into, I mean out of all the shit I've heard

This thread is long down the chain, but I saw it in a 'similar thread' and HAD to read it.

In my own opinion, black metal itself belongs to the individuals themselves who create the music and those who appreciate it in its full capacities. For example, Damnated, Lucas, myself, and many more like ourselves.

Its misunderstood by some, abused by others, and the handful left take it for what it is. Black metal is a craft within all the genres, and some bands tag themselves 'Black Metal' and ruin the principles behind it all.

Sorry you don't like it.

Would recent Cradle of Filth and Dimmu Borgir albums really be classed as black metal, at least in the sense of it's original agenda?

Furthermore there are always going to be third rate bands that simply copy/cover bands who have, in some way, shape or form, an inkling of success. We see that in it's most extreme case in pop music and, in the last however many years, hip hop. It's just a matter of sifting through the filth (no pun intended) in order to find good music. I'm not as learned in black metal as I am in other sub-genres but I certainly do enjoy the good stuff (and in particular the experimental/avantgarde BM) - I think if you took the time to listen to the good stuff, with an open mind, you might be pleasantly surprised.

Written by NOИ on 29.02.2008 at 23:30

yeah maybe, if this is your opinion. just go there in myspace.com and try to search for black metal bands to see how many kids are playing with this and trying to compose music. on the other hand, maybe you are right, it is just a site only, not the whole world.

I still disagree though with your last words, black metal is something evil, we all know that evil, violence and sex are selling like crazy. cant you find too many Dimmu Borgir clones around ? or maybe Darkthrone's clones ? take a look at metal-archives.com you will be suprised! and also, you forget that we can see this music even at MTV nowadays. even Watain did it! it's not exactly "mainstream" like pop or hip hop, but in the metal world, black metal is already mainstream with bands like Cradle of Filth, Dimmu Borgir, Satyricon...

Kids mimicking their idols is nothing new. Do you have any idea how many teenage death metal bands were around in 1990? You only have to take a look at old tape trade lists to get an idea (try www.theundergroundcollection.com for one). Myspace means it's just more accessible and nothing has actually changed with time. The same thing is going on only it's more easily available.

Watain on MTV? Hundreds of extreme music bands have received some mainstream attention. One appearance of a black metal band on MTV doesn't make it a mainstream genre if you consider that Sadistik Exekution did at least two TV interviews in the early 90s. I don't understand this reactionism as though BM is really that ridiculously unknown. Most people know what it is and will have seen BM CDs in HMV anyway so don't be surprised if it gets mentioned in the mainstream media.

BM isn't the underground haven anymore than most other genres really. Is there any genre that doesn't have some kind of underground scene and bands that aren't doing it to make a living?