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The original post

Posted by deadone on 31.07.2014 at 06:30
A couple of things I've noticed over the years but which finally clicked on this thread http://www.metalstorm.net/events/news_comments.php?news_id=24025&page=&message_id=:

1. Underground metalheads tend to display varying degrees of disdain for "mainstream" metal.

2. Only opinions regarding metal perceived as valid are those of underground metal fans/general underground consensus.

3. Even existence of mainstream metal fans is completely disregarded as the underground talks about "most metalfans" and then refers exclusively to the underground or extreme metal.



So is someone who listens to the following bands and no underground/extreme bands a metalhead even if they identify as a metal head, wear the black t-shirts, has the long hair, blah blah?

The list is the Top Metal Artists in USA from Last.FM (http://www.last.fm/charts/artists/top/place/United+States/tag/metal?ending=1406462400 )

Metallica
Black Sabbath
System of a Down
Deftones
Mastodon
Korn
Tool
Marilyn Manson
Iron Maiden
Avenged Sevenfold


Most metalheads I've met IRL have been of this variety. Most of them never went past the commercially avaliable stuff (not even Slayer) but all identified as metalheads. This includes dudes who were only into Nu-Metal back when that was popular. Underground metalheads were far more rarer. They were passionate about their music too, unlike some underground metallers I knew who were only in it for the image.


The sales figures support the notion that most metalheads don't listen to extreme/underground stuff but rather focus on commercial stuff.


So at what point is someone not a metalhead?



Page 5 of 5

Aristarchos

Posts: 755

Age: 30
From: Sweden
  07.08.2014 at 11:22
Written by Ganondox on 01.08.2014 at 06:32

Written by Karlabos on 01.08.2014 at 05:21

Written by Lord_Regnier on 01.08.2014 at 05:10

What is probably weird about me is that I like some pop music as well as extreme Metal but I don't like Heavy Metal ("standard" Heavy Metal, I mean) in general. There are exceptions, like 80's Iron Maiden, but I generally dislike Heavy Metal. It seems for me it's kinda like "all or nothing".
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 01.08.2014 at 05:15

I'm the same really.

Hehe then it's not so weird, because we already have three here.


Well I'm gonna break the combo by saying I vastly prefer traditional heavy metal to both hard rock and extreme metal

Personally I love both heavy metal and death/black metal (and also softer music), but I have never got into pure thrash.
!J.O.O.E.!
Thought Police

Posts: 14824

Age: 30
From: UK

  07.08.2014 at 13:42
Written by Ganondox on 06.08.2014 at 23:48


Okay, by "popular among hipsters" I meant they have both been critics darling's in recent years, metal bands who recent albums have rightfully gotten critical acclaim among mainstream music critics despite the bands hardly being mainstream, only as mainstream as Tool is. As for Deftones being popular because of nu metal, well, that's only if their first two albums are what's dominating last FM, because Deftones nowadays appeals to a completely different crowd than Korn does. I thought Deftones was nu metal before I actually listened to them, but the moment I actually heard a song by them I knew it was wrong to lump them in with that group. Maybe they are continuing to ride on that wave of popularity, but nu metal isn't carrying that wave anymore.

But nu metal is what afforded them that level of exposure originally, and quite a large amount of exposure it was. If that didn't happen and they began their career with the kind of music they make now in this day and age I doubt they would be anywhere near as popular as they are now. They just happen to have a made a gentle progression to the kind of music they make today in a consistent manner. They haven't adopted any faddish themes or appearances to garner them that level or popularity.

I don't think critical acclaim for making good music has anything to do with hipsterdom. I think what makes a band hipster is equally about the kind of fans that listen to them, and I don't think you could regard any Deftones fan as a hipster. They're a popular band that makes good music but they're hardly lumped in with that crowd. They're hardly the darling band of any obtuse demographic from what I've observed. They aren't the cause of any hipster attitudes or behaviour and there are certainly no new movements revolving around their current sound as a result of them. I think most people that are aware of them find them a pretty good band that have done well with themselves and their popularity, but that's it. It just so happens that a lot of people know them.
----
Charly546

Posts: 283

Age: 24
  07.08.2014 at 15:53
Effectively, the only requirement for being a metalhead would be a person who listens to metal. I don't think it really matter whether it's mainstream or underground metal or if it's really metal at all. By that I mean, that there is not a single definition of metal so what one person listens to and thinks as metal might not be so for a second person. For the purposes of this argument, I think it's sufficient that the person identifies the music he listens to as metal. So it's possible for the person to say "I listen to metal".

But that's just a requirement, it does not actually mean that the person identifies himself as a metalhead. He can, but might choose not to. So it seems that to be a metalhead a person has to identify himself as a metalhead. It might seem redundant, but this is to separate people who listen to metal and metalheads. What does being a metalhead mean - it's up to the person in question, whether it's just appreciation of music above "just likes it", supporting the scene, dressing in a specific way etc.

So a metalhead is a person who listens to metal and identifies himself as a metalhead.
Fritillaria
Evil Butterfly

Posts: 1399


  07.08.2014 at 20:01
I don't know why there should be some certain codes for identifying a metalhead to realize that at which point they're metalhead or they ceased to be ?
----
Soundtrack of my life : Evil Dead
"He replies that he is stronger than the wolves, because he stands alone."
no one

Posts: 2125

Age: 31
From: New Zealand

  07.08.2014 at 21:22
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 07.08.2014 at 13:42



I don't think critical acclaim for making good music has anything to do with hipsterdom. I think what makes a band hipster is equally about the kind of fans that listen to them, and I don't think you could regard any Deftones fan as a hipster. They're a popular band that makes good music but they're hardly lumped in with that crowd. They're hardly the darling band of any obtuse demographic from what I've observed. They aren't the cause of any hipster attitudes or behaviour and there are certainly no new movements revolving around their current sound as a result of them. I think most people that are aware of them find them a pretty good band that have done well with themselves and their popularity, but that's it. It just so happens that a lot of people know them.

yes, yes and yes
Alex Fenger
Sitting Fanatic

Posts: 2213

Age: 17


  08.08.2014 at 04:40
Written by Fritillaria on 07.08.2014 at 20:01

I don't know why there should be some certain codes for identifying a metalhead to realize that at which point they're metalhead or they ceased to be ?

I know it's really quite stupid. "Ah you only listen to Iron Maiden and Metallica, you're not a trv l33t metalhead like me, look at my Cephalotripsy albums, I'm so cool". Some people just feel the need to identify themselves under a certain description to feel secure about themselves and their opinions.
----
Free Palestine!
Ganondox

Posts: 336

Age: 18
From: USA

  08.08.2014 at 08:47
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 07.08.2014 at 13:42

Written by Ganondox on 06.08.2014 at 23:48


Okay, by "popular among hipsters" I meant they have both been critics darling's in recent years, metal bands who recent albums have rightfully gotten critical acclaim among mainstream music critics despite the bands hardly being mainstream, only as mainstream as Tool is. As for Deftones being popular because of nu metal, well, that's only if their first two albums are what's dominating last FM, because Deftones nowadays appeals to a completely different crowd than Korn does. I thought Deftones was nu metal before I actually listened to them, but the moment I actually heard a song by them I knew it was wrong to lump them in with that group. Maybe they are continuing to ride on that wave of popularity, but nu metal isn't carrying that wave anymore.

But nu metal is what afforded them that level of exposure originally, and quite a large amount of exposure it was. If that didn't happen and they began their career with the kind of music they make now in this day and age I doubt they would be anywhere near as popular as they are now. They just happen to have a made a gentle progression to the kind of music they make today in a consistent manner. They haven't adopted any faddish themes or appearances to garner them that level or popularity.

I don't think critical acclaim for making good music has anything to do with hipsterdom. I think what makes a band hipster is equally about the kind of fans that listen to them, and I don't think you could regard any Deftones fan as a hipster. They're a popular band that makes good music but they're hardly lumped in with that crowd. They're hardly the darling band of any obtuse demographic from what I've observed. They aren't the cause of any hipster attitudes or behaviour and there are certainly no new movements revolving around their current sound as a result of them. I think most people that are aware of them find them a pretty good band that have done well with themselves and their popularity, but that's it. It just so happens that a lot of people know them.


Eh, can't argue with that. Anyway, I have twice as many friends on facebook who like Mastodon than Deftones, so there goes Mastodon being an obscure band.
Monolithic
♠♠♠

Posts: 641

Age: 21
From: UAE

  16.08.2014 at 17:45
Written by Alex Fenger on 08.08.2014 at 04:40

Some people just feel the need to identify themselves under a certain description to feel secure about themselves and their opinions.

Yep, definitely my sentiments. It's their own bubble of security.
DyingWorld

Posts: 132

Age: 20
From: USA

  20.08.2014 at 04:55
I don't even know anymore. I have long hair, black clothes and listen to everything from Priest to Necrovore. I guess I'm a metalhead by default, but I don't wish to be marginalized by my taste in music, even though it's something that I'm passionate about. I don't subscribe to any sort of "metalhead life code", if there is one. The music is what I love but the scene politics and purist mentality is nauseating. I'm equally as passionate about other music outside the genre too. There are some days where I don't even listen to metal.
Kennoth

Posts: 2363

Age: 22
From: Croatia

  27.08.2014 at 06:15
The whole "trve kvlt" underground bullshit only serves to annoy me. That's why I detest Metal Archives among other places. It's of course good for anyone's sake to branch out their listening habits, be it mainstream or underground, but they should do it for themselves, for the sake of diversity of musical experience, not because someone else tells them to.

Personally, I could care less. My favorite band is on that mainstream list, yet I'll listen to anything as long as I like it, and there are some very obscure and local artists in my library. In my opinion, people who choose to limit themselves in this area (aka listening only to super cool basement stuff) are only doing themselves a disservice. So to answer the title question: never. If they listen to metal, it doesn't matter if it's mainstream or not. It only matters if you identify as a metalhead or not (after all, you don't have to be a metalhead to enjoy metal music, now do you?).
----
*insert something deep and profound*
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Fuck

Posts: 36500

Age: 46
From: The Netherlands

  27.08.2014 at 13:50
Written by Kennoth on 27.08.2014 at 06:15



Personally, I could care less.


Couldn´t care less. Unless you actually do care.
----
Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

Kennoth

Posts: 2363

Age: 22
From: Croatia

  27.08.2014 at 16:23
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 27.08.2014 at 13:50

Written by Kennoth on 27.08.2014 at 06:15



Personally, I could care less.


Couldn´t care less. Unless you actually do care.


I missed you too you grumpy fuck.
----
*insert something deep and profound*
Guib

Posts: 2062

Age: 23
From: Canada

  28.08.2014 at 00:00
Ah... labels, dear labels... what would we do without them labels ? We'd probably crawl to reach the nearest corner then curl into a ball, right ?
Being a metalhead, I don't know, but it seems to me it always been about one single thing ''Listening to Heavy Metal/Hard Rock'' Music, no matter
what type (death, black, doom, thrash, prog...) and no matter what popularity (insert band name here) has achieved.
It simply doesn't matter. Though, If it helps you sleep better at night to think you're more a metalhead than Mr.This or Mrs.That
Well go ahead, the only pride & confidence that'll be affected by this kind of thinking, is your own.
----
- I love my technical, melodic, my thrash, agressive and fast paced, my sludge, well thought, my heavy, heavier and my metal, ever-growing -
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3824
From: Australia

  29.08.2014 at 06:26
Written by Guib on 28.08.2014 at 00:00

Ah... labels, dear labels... what would we do without them labels ? We'd probably crawl to reach the nearest corner then curl into a ball, right ?
Being a metalhead, I don't know, but it seems to me it always been about one single thing ''Listening to Heavy Metal/Hard Rock'' Music, no matter
what type (death, black, doom, thrash, prog...) and no matter what popularity (insert band name here) has achieved.



Funnily enough but I don't view myself as a Metalhead. My lifestyle and values are completely opposite to most metalheads I've known in real life and what I've read in interviews and seen on net. And I definitely listen to the music.
Boxcar Willy
*sigh*

Posts: 7231

Age: 17
From: Canada

  29.08.2014 at 06:42
I dunno, my life is made up of so much more than metal, so I take bits and pieces of each culture to make up who I am. Skateboarding, Motocross, metal, nature etc it all gets thrown into the mixing pot.

I can definitely see people with lives based solely around metal acting and wanting to be a "metalhead' but to me there's just so much more out there.
----
forever bummed out
no one

Posts: 2125

Age: 31
From: New Zealand

  29.08.2014 at 06:49
I used to think to be a punk you had to never work and hate everything about society, then i realized they were just the same as all the bums, just listened to different music. Everyone has different lifestyles, i don't think your lifestyle categorizes who you are in music terms. Things like hanging out with certain people or trying to live out a certain lifestyle to be more "metal" is just ridiculous and an act to boost a persons ego.
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3824
From: Australia

  29.08.2014 at 07:26
Written by no one on 29.08.2014 at 06:49

I used to think to be a punk you had to never work and hate everything about society, then i realized they were just the same as all the bums, just listened to different music. Everyone has different lifestyles, i don't think your lifestyle categorizes who you are in music terms. Things like hanging out with certain people or trying to live out a certain lifestyle to be more "metal" is just ridiculous and an act to boost a persons ego.



Totally agree. Though it's amazing how many people I've met who have done the whole "being more metal/hardcore/Straight Edge/hippy/artie than thou." Thet almost tried to live a cliche.
Guib

Posts: 2062

Age: 23
From: Canada

  30.08.2014 at 03:28
Written by deadone on 29.08.2014 at 06:26

Written by Guib on 28.08.2014 at 00:00

Ah... labels, dear labels... what would we do without them labels ? We'd probably crawl to reach the nearest corner then curl into a ball, right ?
Being a metalhead, I don't know, but it seems to me it always been about one single thing ''Listening to Heavy Metal/Hard Rock'' Music, no matter
what type (death, black, doom, thrash, prog...) and no matter what popularity (insert band name here) has achieved.



Funnily enough but I don't view myself as a Metalhead. My lifestyle and values are completely opposite to most metalheads I've known in real life and what I've read in interviews and seen on net. And I definitely listen to the music.


Here's the difference between you and me... I don't see the label *Metalhead* as something that describes a lifestyle or something that expresses values, and this is where
this fuss all comes from.. I'm a punk as much as a Metalhead or a Alternative fan (w/e the name would be) ... To me those labels are solely useful for describing
the music you listen to, and not your lifestyle. In my opinion there's no such thing as labels to describe lifestyles, because it would have to be a different label for absolutely everyone, for we all live differently and have different values. Even though you'd be a fan of a 1000 different types of music if you listen to a bit of heavy metal well you're a Metalhead... that was basically what I meant in the last post. This is probably why I ain't shy to say that I'm a metalhead or a punk... or w/e, because when people see me at first, they had no clue I was the kind to listen to this (unless they saw me at a show of course). I mean, I don't go to work with a metal shirt and rarely to a restaurant or w/e occasion.

This world would be better if we would separate music labels from lifestyles, just like a state does better when religion and politics are not involved with eachother.
----
- I love my technical, melodic, my thrash, agressive and fast paced, my sludge, well thought, my heavy, heavier and my metal, ever-growing -
deadone
Mainstream Poser

Posts: 3824
From: Australia

  01.09.2014 at 02:20
Written by Guib on 30.08.2014 at 03:28


Here's the difference between you and me... I don't see the label *Metalhead* as something that describes a lifestyle or something that expresses values, and this is where
this fuss all comes from.. I'm a punk as much as a Metalhead or a Alternative fan (w/e the name would be) ... To me those labels are solely useful for describing
the music you listen to, and not your lifestyle. In my opinion there's no such thing as labels to describe lifestyles, because it would have to be a different label for absolutely everyone, for we all live differently and have different values. Even though you'd be a fan of a 1000 different types of music if you listen to a bit of heavy metal well you're a Metalhead... that was basically what I meant in the last post. This is probably why I ain't shy to say that I'm a metalhead or a punk... or w/e, because when people see me at first, they had no clue I was the kind to listen to this (unless they saw me at a show of course). I mean, I don't go to work with a metal shirt and rarely to a restaurant or w/e occasion.


I find this kind of stuff interesting. I think there is a real difference between Australian metal fans and Canadian ones.

I don't know if other cultures do this, but in Australia most of the "alternative" groups tend to go for cliches.

You get the hippy crowd, the artsy crowd, the metal crowd, the emo crowd, the garage rock crowd, surfer crowd and back in the 1990s the goth crowd, the trendy country/agricultural types etc etc. You can spot them a mile away because of how they dress, how they style their hair and/or beards and with the hippies even how they smell (teatree oil and body odour). And they do tend to have cliched/generic opinions on things that you would expect from such people.

In Melbourne and Hobart I've even seen cliched looking punks that looked like they came out of late 1970s London - big mohawks, combat boots, leather jackets and even tartan kilts in a couple of instances.

Even the bogans (lower socio-economic white types) wear certain clothes, have certain hairdos, often listen to specific music etc. There's also certain lifestyle choices involved too - not working is common, drug and alcohol abuse is not only accepted but promoted, marriage is increasingly rare, sexual promiscuity is fine, violence is often seen as a reasonable method of dealing with problems. There's a certain pride about being a bogan too. On the other side, there's also certain 2nd generation immigrant cultures especially amongst Mediterranean types (certain type of dress, music (variants of hip hop) and attitudes).

They even all speak in different accents.

There's even "authorised" cars for these groups - rural types often have "utes" festooned in stickers, with truck mud flaps, outsized bullbars and lots of aerials. Wogs go for done up "muscle cars" or Japanese sport cars, whilst bogans prefer Australian built Holdens and Fords if they can afford them.





These cultural values persist into life - e.g. my wife has cousins who are our age and in a similar economic situation but they are completely "rural" types with accents, values, interests and attitudes prevalent to that group other than the done up utes (but they've all got kids so SUV it is). The accents are interesting my wife grew up in that same rural setting but has a "normal" Australian accent.


I think similar situations must exist in USA too but my knowledge here is limited to movies, docos about things like Columbine which highlighted highschool social "castes". The Americans I've known have generally been older and very middle class and often been Mormons (I'm not a Mormon but have buddies who are - far more pleasant chaps than your average Christian - they have never ever preached to me or openly judged me).



Quote:
This world would be better if we would separate music labels from lifestyles, just like a state does better when religion and politics are not involved with eachother.


Probably but humans are herd animals and like to belong to groups. And those groups have specific identifying traits.

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