Written by Dr. Strawberry on 04.09.2014 at 10:47

Iron Maiden have to credit Eddie and those cover art graphic designers for their success.

Let's stop the charades. Iron Maiden has some influence on our discourse within metal circles, and the reason they do is mostly related to their musical repertoire. To place the band's entire success squarely upon the superficial appearance of a record is simply absurd. The amount of tangible influence their music had over metal's progression is debatable, of course, but their influence is an objective fact that's not up for debate any time soon.

This comment of yours speaks volumes about you. You have displayed no willingness to truly understand Iron Maiden as a phenomenon (or any of the other groups for that matter), and that's a prerequisite to making informed decisions about albums that could be deemed "overrated" within the metal community. In other words, you don't really provide concrete reasons (centered in the music) about why you don't like these particular albums, preferring only superficial, shallow and unsubstantiated comments as to why widely acclaimed albums are bad. When you make a bold claim (ie. ALL of these albums, widely regarded as classics that may or may not be good, are overrated), you require a lot of evidence to justify your belief, so the fact that people are reacting so harshly to this list is an indication that you haven't really explained your rationale fully enough. And because you are content simply dwelling in your own shallow beliefs, we (justifiably) have no reason to take any of your personal opinions seriously. That's exactly why you're receiving ridicule- you've talked about everything from Obama to cover art designers, and it's pretty clear you don't value the act of listening to the music you criticize.

Thankfully, in any domain of knowledge, there are opinions that just don't count; that's precisely how we have expertise to begin with. I encourage you to remove this list from the database and stop any personal endeavours to engage with other metalheads about it. I think this list will likely be a profound waste of your time (if it isn't already). Until your willingness to know is greater than your willingness to believe, I'm afraid there's no reason for this (or you) to be on the site.

First time when I saw this list I thought that this might just be some lousy trolling done by someone with way too much free time. But when I've seen that this shit is serios... fml...

I remember a guy from my work place that I used to talk a lot about horror movies saying one day: "dude! you've seen so much shit that you can't discern good movies from bad movies". And damn, I just had a deja-vu seeing this list.

Much of what is here is the bible of every lets say respectable metalhead... talk about inverted values...

gize gize, i think the wright flyers were overrated and not worth the credit they get, i mean they could only stay in air for like what, 5 minutes and they were totally shit and impractical. today's F22s could wreck them any time.

Probably worth pointing out that the OP gave Bethlehem's 'A Sacrificial Offering To The Kingdom Of Heaven In A Cracked Dog's Ear' 9 / 10 and called it a "masterpiece."

Written by Guest on 05.09.2014 at 02:12

gize gize, i think the wright flyers were overrated and not worth the credit they get, i mean they could only stay in air for like what, 5 minutes and they were totally shit and impractical. today's F22s could wreck them any time.

Perfect reply.

I very rarely listen to these albums anymore but I grew up on all of them and their place in metal history and their continuing role as 'Gateway' albums should be met with respect. As someone else said, you don't have to necessarily enjoy these albums to appreciate them.

Written by Doc G. on 04.09.2014 at 22:58
I'd disagree.

I don't think we're in disagreement, I just didn't expand on my thinking and explain that someone disliking a critically acclaimed album doesn't necessarily mean they overlook its importance. I did point out the opposite of that though, which I think Ilham expanded on, when mentioning guilty pleasures and liking things you know are bad.

You friggin' Westerners always tryna pick fights even when people agree with you. Must be something in the water out there. Probably oil.

Written by Guest on 05.09.2014 at 02:13
Probably worth pointing out that the OP gave Bethlehem's 'A Sacrificial Offering To The Kingdom Of Heaven In A Cracked Dog's Ear' 9 / 10 and called it a "masterpiece."

Pretty sure he just votes the opposite of the majority for the sake of it. His Top 20 albums list is probably this: http://metalstorm.net/bands/albums_top.php?bottom=1

Written by Troy Killjoy on 05.09.2014 at 03:53

You friggin' Westerners always tryna pick fights even when people agree with you. Must be something in the water out there. Probably oil.

Hahaha. 'Cept I'm an easterner born n' raised (Ottawa Valley). Never fit in with Alberta, I don't even really like it here.

Forgive me if I didn't read 2 pages of comments. Anyways - I was under the impression you were defending the legitimacy of this list here...I think there's a line between "dislike" and "bashing", this page just seems to carry the tone of the latter.

Written by Doc G. on 05.09.2014 at 04:02
I was under the impression you were defending the legitimacy of this list here...

And I was under the impression you thought I had at least a shred of dignity.

It's a shit list, I was just playing up the Devil's advocate thing for about 30 seconds to fuel the fire. Didn't really get out of hand nearly as much as I was hoping for though.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 05.09.2014 at 04:05

Written by Doc G. on 05.09.2014 at 04:02
I was under the impression you were defending the legitimacy of this list here...

And I was under the impression you thought I had at least a shred of dignity.

It's a shit list, I was just playing up the Devil's advocate thing for about 30 seconds to fuel the fire. Didn't really get out of hand nearly as much as I was hoping for though.

There's a certain dignity in standing up for the unpopular side...unfortunately here it's in fact just illogical.

Written by Guest on 05.09.2014 at 02:12

gize gize, i think the wright flyers were overrated and not worth the credit they get, i mean they could only stay in air for like what, 5 minutes and they were totally shit and impractical. today's F22s could wreck them any time.

Easily the best response and the best analogy to apply here.

Written by Hex_Omega on 04.09.2014 at 21:07

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 04.09.2014 at 10:47

Iron Maiden have to credit Eddie and those cover art graphic designers for their success.

Lol! I will remember that comment

BTW this list is quite hilarious because you are just showing us that you have terrible taste in music. No offence of course, people can hate Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath or Death but em... what are you doing here on Metalstorm if you hate so many classic metal bands? I think you should also make a list of your favourite albums then.

Only those who love classic metal bands deserve to be here ?

Quote:
... your comment is nonsense, sorry. However, I wouldn't bother to actually rate so many albums I dislike, as I simply don't like to listen to music that I don't like...

I disliked those albums as I've finished listening all of them.
How would you know you won't like something if you don't even bother to try listening ? Your comments are just nonsense !

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 05.09.2014 at 13:11

I disliked those albums as I've finished listening all of them.
How would you know you won't like something if you don't even bother to try listening ? Your comments are just nonsense !

If you listened to them then you can add comments on why they're overrated. If you simply didn't like them then you wouldn't be compelled to as that would just be your taste, but seeing as you've identified the overrated trope as being part of this list then you need to explain why said albums are not worthy of their place in history. As I already said this list is worthless without descriptions because you aren't explaining anything.

Quote:
... I can't deny their importance. I'd acknowledge that most of, if not all of my favourite bands wouldn't exist without them...

...God Buster is more or less a revisionist (as Marcel would say), and probably shouldn't be taken seriously....

I didn't deny their creative and influences, I just said in term of performance those albums should not be considered outstanding anymore in modern era due to the evolution and competition in music. Certainly some classics still sound perfect such as Crimson Idol, Ride The Lightning, South of Heaven, No Place for Disgrace among others...

I called these albums - Vintage albums. Old stuff with no value called junk, products which have to use various methods (such as influences, creators, material...) for determination of the degree of the value called vintage or antique.

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 05.09.2014 at 13:39

I didn't deny their creative and influences, I just said in term of performance those albums should not be considered outstanding anymore in modern era due to the evolution and competition in music. Certainly some classics still sound perfect such as Crimson Idol, Ride The Lightning, South of Heaven, No Place for Disgrace among others...

I called these albums - Vintage albums. Old stuff with no value called junk, products which have to use various methods (such as influences, creators, material...) for determination of the degree of the value called vintage or antique.

Please tell me of these albums which outdo and render moot the melodeath albums Jester Race, Thousand Lakes and Damage Done, and a better grind album than Horrified, as well as modern day retro doom bands that play that style better than early Black Sabbath. I'm talking about albums that quite literally render these albums totally pointless; albums which do everything on it better in every way.

Written by Guest on 05.09.2014 at 13:47

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 05.09.2014 at 13:39

I didn't deny their creative and influences, I just said in term of performance those albums should not be considered outstanding anymore in modern era due to the evolution and competition in music. Certainly some classics still sound perfect such as Crimson Idol, Ride The Lightning, South of Heaven, No Place for Disgrace among others...

I called these albums - Vintage albums. Old stuff with no value called junk, products which have to use various methods (such as influences, creators, material...) for determination of the degree of the value called vintage or antique.

Please tell me of these albums which outdo and render moot the melodeath albums Jester Race, Thousand Lakes and Damage Done, and a better grind album than Horrified, as well as modern day retro doom bands that play that style better than early Black Sabbath. I'm talking about albums that quite literally render these albums totally pointless; albums which do everything on it better in every way.

Ok, I think this is a better option for me to answer rather than asking me to write down detailed description on each album.
1) Jester race, slaughter of souls, etc...in term of musical composition is too raw and "primitive", it was the earliest form of melodeth. For me they're influencial but not really that outstanding. I personally prefered Amon Amarth's early works, even Black Dahlia Murder is better than In Flames.
2) Thousand Lakes...is just childish, I disliked the album with no particular reasons...sounds childish.
3) Fiction and Character are much much better than Danage Done, the first 3 trscks on Damage Done are good, the rest just average. Sounds familiar...repetitions and mixtures of their earlier songs.
4) Many grind albums are better than Horrified. eg, Australian band The Berserker - Animosity can kick Horrified 10 miles away.
5) My Dying Bride plays better doom than Black Sabbath. Actually I don't really think Black Sabbath is doom, they only played a heavy bass style on their one and only doom style album - Master of Reality. They didn't really develope the concept later on.

Well firstly, The Berzerker are bloody awful. If there's any band that's childish it's them with its lame attempt at blasty speedcore / gabba influenced grind. Furthermore it's a totally different form of music than Repulsion so I fail to see how it invalidates Repulsion.

BDM, they were originally total clones of At The Gates, albeit an inferior version. They then went on to make a type of music which is really nothing like In Flames, At The Gates so again I don't see how they render the early works of melodeath originators void.

Damage Done sounds like early Dark Tranquillty songs? I don't know what you mean. They really sound very little like them at all; far more melodic and keyboard oriented. Few songwriting similarities. Perhaps somewhat like Haven and Projector but still quite distinct from them. Fiction was also vastly inferior to Damage Done as it relied far too much on cheesy keyboards whereas Damage Done struck a good balance.

Whether or not you think Sabbath played doom is not the question here, but the fact remains that there are perhaps hundreds of bands that emulate Sabbath's style and it is widely regarded as a retro sort of doom. And if you think the existence of MDB somewhat negates what Sabbath did then I really don't know what to say as they sound absolutely nothing alike to my ears.


What I'm seeing here is you picking out bands that have long moved away from their genre originator's style and using them as examples of bands that are better for that reason. This is a really poor method of highlighting the concept of "overrated" as the styles here are wholly incompatible and for that reason you haven't answered my question based on the point: "I'm talking about albums that quite literally render these albums totally pointless; albums which do everything on it better in every way."

Quote:
OVERRATED -
(Definition) A term used to describe something that gets more hype and credit than it's actually worth.

You still have a long way to go to justify this part of your description. Calling something "childish" is not adequate. Your argument needs to incorporate analyses of influence, impact, originality, demographics, media trends, popular trends of consensus "quality" eg. groups of people that regard certain kinds of production poor like brick-walling etc., appropriate comparison with similar bands, not just bands that eventually evolved from their style (note: evolved from does not = better to, necessarily). If you can't rise to this debate like you should then I suggest you remove the overrated part of the description because it seems like you don't have the knowledge, understanding or inclination to take on the task of examining these albums in the proper way they deserve.

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 05.09.2014 at 13:04

Only those who love classic metal bands deserve to be here ?

Nope. But I don't see the point of your list. This is like with youtube videos. I hate Justin Bieber. But does it mean that I will comment on his videos 'omg Justin Bieber sucks'? Thats kind of you know... childish. I'm not sure why you want to show us that your taste is so much different (better?) than others. Because your list is definitely very provocative and you know that.

Written by Guest on 05.09.2014 at 14:39

Well firstly, The Berzerker are bloody awful. If there's any band that's childish it's them with its lame attempt at blasty speedcore / gabba influenced grind. Furthermore it's a totally different form of music than Repulsion so I fail to see how it invalidates Repulsion.

- I personally think The Berzerker - Animosity is a masterpiece. It's ok If you think they're awful.
- Repulsion - Horrified is punk influened grindcore, not pure grindcore. My example is only based on the request of your framework.

BDM, they were originally total clones of At The Gates, albeit an inferior version. They then went on to make a type of music which is really nothing like In Flames, At The Gates so again I don't see how they render the early works of melodeath originators void.

- I guess how original is the band is not really important here.

Damage Done sounds like early Dark Tranquillty songs? I don't know what you mean. They really sound very little like them at all; far more melodic and keyboard oriented. Few songwriting similarities. Perhaps somewhat like Haven and Projector but still quite distinct from them. Fiction was also vastly inferior to Damage Done as it relied far too much on cheesy keyboards whereas Damage Done struck a good balance.

- You agreed with the similarities but you think it's still good. For me I think otherwise.

Whether or not you think Sabbath played doom is not the question here, but the fact remains that there are perhaps hundreds of bands that emulate Sabbath's style and it is widely regarded as a retro sort of doom. And if you think the existence of MDB somewhat negates what Sabbath did then I really don't know what to say as they sound absolutely nothing alike to my ears.

- I just answered your question as you asked me which band plays better Doom. I didn't say they sound alike.


What I'm seeing here is
"you picking out bands that have long moved away from their genre originator's style"
and using them as examples of bands that are better for that reason. This is a really poor method of highlighting the concept of "overrated" as the styles here are wholly incompatible and for that reason you haven't answered my question based on the point: "I'm talking about albums that quite literally render these albums totally pointless; albums which do everything on it better in every way."

- This is exactly what my point is : Competition - Evolution - Elimination

Quote:
OVERRATED -
(Definition) A term used to describe something that gets more hype and credit than it's actually worth.

You still have a long way to go to justify this part of your description.

- This is the definition from a dictionary, not my own definition.

Calling something "childish" is not adequate. Your argument needs to incorporate analyses of influence, impact, originality, demographics, media trends, popular trends of consensus "quality"

- May be "childish" is not a good term to use on Thousand Lakes'...I would say the music on that album is flat, single layer and lack of textures.

I suggest you remove the overrated part of the description because it seems like you don't have the knowledge, understanding or inclination to take on the task of examining these albums in the proper way they deserve.

- Ya, you're so good, I won't stop you making your own list.

Written by Hex_Omega on 05.09.2014 at 16:26

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 05.09.2014 at 13:04

Only those who love classic metal bands deserve to be here ?

Nope. But I don't see the point of your list. This is like with youtube videos. I hate Justin Bieber. But does it mean that I will comment on his videos 'omg Justin Bieber sucks'? Thats kind of you know... childish. I'm not sure why you want to show us that your taste is so much different (better?) than others. Because your list is definitely very provocative and you know that.

I simply don't know what is your point keep on nagging about your discontent and keep on saying something that I didn't say...
Did I say these albums suck
Check out my ratings, I just mentioned they're not 8-9 material in my point of view, the most I can give to some albums are 6-7, some even lower therefore i called it "overrated" (always in my point of view)
Provocative
Why don't you send a request to Metal Storm and ask the person in charge do not set the rating system here OR a better suggestion only setting 3 score 8-10 is more than enough.

Quote:
- Repulsion - Horrified is punk influened grindcore, not pure grindcore. My example is only based on the request of your framework.

My request was to find an album comparable to Repulsion that did what Repulsion did better in order to prove that it is now "overrated". You just admitted that they play different types of grind so clearly you didn't adhere to my "framework"

Quote:
- I just answered your question as you asked me which band plays better Doom. I didn't say they sound alike.

Again, no you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask which band plays better doom. I asked you to provide examples of bands that did what Sabbath did, only better. MDB did not do what Sabbath did, they did something else which is only related to Sabbath. This doesn't explain, by any stretch, why this makes Sabbath's key records "overrated."

Quote:
This is exactly what my point is : Competition - Evolution - Elimination

I'm not sure I'm even understanding you here, but from what I can gather you're saying bands that proceed other bands effectively "eliminate" the bands that came before it, as though there is only room for the new bands. So only new band's music is worth hearing. If this is what you mean then you are truly an idiot.

Quote:
- This is the definition from a dictionary, not my own definition.

You put the description there. If you aren't going to honour it in the list then don't use it.

Quote:

Quote:

My request was to find an album comparable to Repulsion that did what Repulsion did better in order to prove that it is now "overrated". You just admitted that they play different types of grind so clearly you didn't adhere to my "framework"

Again, no you didn't answer my question. I didn't ask which band plays better doom. I asked you to provide examples of bands that did what Sabbath did, only better. MDB did not do what Sabbath did, they did something else which is only related to Sabbath. This doesn't explain, by any stretch, why this makes Sabbath's key records "overrated."

- Why do they (bands) have to compare with others in order to prove that if they're overrated ? You're just twisting a simple definition of the word "overrated" into your own bizarre definition.
- Overrated is an adjective and adjective is subjective. Everybody can call whatever they don't like but adorned by majority as overrated. Why do you have to force others to conform your own law ?

Quote:
This is exactly what my point is : Competition - Evolution - Elimination

I'm not sure I'm even understanding you here, but from what I can gather you're saying bands that proceed other bands effectively "eliminate" the bands that came before it, as though there is only room for the new bands. So only new band's music is worth hearing. If this is what you mean then you are truly an idiot.

- Why do you have to put things into my mouth ? I didn't say only new band's music is worth listening, please don't imagine things...I have mentioned Crimson Idol, Ride the Lightning...are my all time masterpieces.

Quote:
- This is the definition from a dictionary, not my own definition.

You put the description there. If you aren't going to honour it in the list then don't use it.

- Are you crazy

I am not going to reply you anymore as you're the one always created hatred on this website.

Quote:
- Why do they (bands) have to compare with others in order to prove that if they're overrated ? You're just twisting a simple definition of the word "overrated" into your own bizarre definition.
- Overrated is an adjective and adjective is subjective. Everybody can call whatever they don't like but adorned by majority as overrated. Why do you have to force others to conform your own law ?

Anyone that regards a classic album as "overrated" is inclined to give a little explanation in my opinion. Calling something overrated goes far beyond personal taste; it calls into question an album's historical precedent. One can like something that is overrated, and dislike something that is underrated, etc.

You said:

Quote:
in term of performance those albums should not be considered outstanding anymore in modern era due to the evolution and competition in music.

You haven't elaborated on why modern albums outright invalidate older albums, whether or not they sound similar. This is a ridiculous notion in fact. The reason I ask you for similar examples is because frankly that's the only way I can see classic albums being bettered. Albums don't deteriorate in quality just because future bands take some of their ideas and do something different with it. They just make different music. I'm not "putting words in your mouth." I'm trying to interpret your bizarre, backwards and frankly disrespectful perspective of music.

Actually read the description of the term of overrated for once. Something that gets more hype and credit than it's worth. This has nothing to do with your tastes. This is the belief that other people's opinions / tastes are wrong. That requires an explanation in my opinion.

Written by Dr. Strawberry on 05.09.2014 at 18:40

- Are you crazy

I am not going to reply you anymore as you're the one always created hatred on this website.

Says the guy who doesn't miss one opportunity to start flame wars on the forum. I might be watching too much Sopranos right now, but I can only picture you like this:



By now, you have proven that you don't want to back your "claims" and only reluctantly do so when you're called out on a particular album. It establishes that you are only doing this for show, and that you shouldn't be taken seriously. Same as for you ridiculous "rock bands mistaken for metal bands" list that doesn't offer insight, demonstration or any kind of commentary that could spur an interesting conversation.

Quote:

Quote:

- By now, you have proven that you don't want to back your "claims" and only reluctantly do so when you're called out on a particular album.
- It establishes that you are only doing this for show, and that you shouldn't be taken seriously.
- Same as for you ridiculous "rock bands mistaken for metal bands" list that doesn't offer insight, demonstration or any kind of commentary that could spur an interesting conversation.

- I have been backing my claims all the time on individual album's comment column, whenever I gave low rate I always support with my point of view...
- Different point of view = Not serious ?
- Naked truth is always not interesting

J.O.O.E. THE CREATOR OF HATERED

Written by Guest on 05.09.2014 at 20:36

J.O.O.E. THE CREATOR OF HATERED

THE ARBITER OF DETSRUCTION. THE OVERSEER OF MIRESY.

Written by Guest on 05.09.2014 at 20:38

Written by Guest on 05.09.2014 at 20:36

J.O.O.E. THE CREATOR OF HATERED

THE ARBITER OF DETSRUCTION. THE OVERSEER OF MIRESY.

MIRESY LOVES COPMANY.

Dude learn to quote. You're lucky I come here to read the other guys' jokes.

Yeah I'm all about bashing people because they have different opinions. Plus I don't care/like about 80% of the albums you have on here. I said you shouldn't be taken seriously because you're not providing arguments. I'm not going to look for your opinion on each album everywhere on the forum, I don't love you that much. Also this applies to your '"rock bands" list.

Written by Ilham on 05.09.2014 at 21:34

Also this applies to your '"rock bands" list.

Especially his "rock bands" list.