Greeting Metalstormers ...

So well I been thinking , how come we are in the Millenium and istead of advancing in many senses we are reversing ? is it the edge of stupidity How come no one is using their brain anymore , music is becoming repetitive , things are becoming pointless , society gets worst everyday . I don't mean to be negative sure we have great things and technology has being a great advance , but not quiet because is like we're destroying ourselves , Many companies who just keep producing and producing , and having an even more greedy mentality are destroying the world and themselves, they don't think of the future they don't think of the consequences , and then everyone complains about natural disasters, I think earth has a way of balancing so that's why all this things are happening . But anyways the point is what is happening ?am I just having weird thoughts or is it really happening ??

So what do you think ?

are we really reversing instead of advancing ?

You're right . While technologies are becoming more effective and powerful , usual people are becoming stupid . They don't know how modern things works , they just use it like apes . If something crashes , they will be .... helpless .Now you can "explore" whole world without leaving your room . but TV or internet can't replace real feelings .

i wouldn't say that we are regressing, since the standards of life and education are always growing, and at least when it comes to getting jobs people here are setting the bar higher and higher. music gets more and more repetitive because now a huge amount of people are making a living out of it and there'll always be inovators and imitators(like say iron maiden kinda copied judas priest, who in turn kinda copied sabbath and led zeppelin, who in turn copied bill haley or chuck berry, the inventors of rock n roll) it's just impossible that people can always be original with their music. like when i was heavily into therion, i used to try to use more and more strings in my guitarpro wankeries, and now when i'm into iced earth, i use a lot of triplets and fast heavy riffs...it's extremely hard to be original in the music world.

Interesting thread my dear friend, well, I have many thoughts on this topic, I've asked me the same question
Well, everything is so subjective... if someone says that we are reversing it could be true and if someone says no, it's the same thing, it could be true, it deppends of the point of view of the person
What do I think about it: right now with technology, media, the really really big amounts of information, people don't really need to do an effort to get things, because everything is really easy today, let's just put an example: internet, through it you can get a lot of things, but unless you organize the information and the amount of things you find, it'll be a complete mess. another point of internet is that you don't have to search in books in many cases, you find the things easily, so, that could make that people don¡t use their brains. this is just an example

Another thought I have is that right now all those things are happening because mankind needs to learn something, but we just don't find the answer, we get troubled with things, so, it might cause the things we know today, things that we consider problems...

Interesting topic my dear Yeah well is very complicated. I agee with all of you, I think it depens on the point of view cause in some aspects, we seem like reversing, or just stoping in the development of our capacities, cause like The Alchemist said technology can help us to do many things that before were impossible, but at the same time it makes life easier for the people so they dont use their brains as before, or get as courious and interested for life anymore. But as you said I think everything has a balance, where technology and all that stuff makes us go "advancing" in some levels, there would also be problems, the rich get richer and the poor poorer cause they lack acces to the advanced stuff, and then come the problems wars and stuff, and is like we condem ourselves to fall. And also like right now, we affect the nature and the planet because of the contamination and the whole growing thing, so now we are suffering the consecuenses.

A few days ago i had an argument with my friend onto this topic . He is studying law at university. He told me that ancient greeks use more % of thier brain than a person use today . And he is right. Those ancient persons like Platum , Aristote and others use to think about many things that surround them . They use thier brains to do something , nowadays people use computer to think inside of them. People are getting lazy and don't think about nothing about the world they use to live. This is the difference between ancient society and modern society. People use to think onto one think, that is how am i getting rich, to earn more money . And doing this he use natural resorces and he is destroying his world. World has it's own natural balance , man is destroying this balance. About 30-50yrs the climate shall be more unstable than today. There will be no summer or spring but only havey rain or dry hot summers .

Written by Lupas on 18.02.2007 at 09:18

Those ancient persons like Platum , Aristote and others use to think about many things that surround them .

If you're going to base your world view on ancient philosophers, keep in mind Sokrates was executed for "corrupting" the youth. People were as stupid back then as they are today. Why they might use more percentage of their brains might be because they were taught to memorize ridiculous ammount of texts, which probably exercised their minds. But I don't think this approach was good for keeping brain relaxed and open for new ideas.
Anyway, I don't think this thread is quite smart itself. Human mentality evolves together with our world. Otherwise we would already score a nuclear winter by now. Our world becomes polluted, so organisations like Greenpeace are formed. If science progresses, our awareness of the world will go up. If we start putting too much faith into science, there will arise worldviews which will try to promote natural aspects of our world. And following the switching between theism and humanism that accompanied humanity throughout its history, today we experience rise of humanism when young generations care more about the world, the human being and its place on the Earth. With this we experience rise of ideas like alternative energy sources, which are meant to elevate us from the dark ages. But once we'll become too cold and trusting in the science, another generation will promote rise of spirituality and religion. It's natural and it isn't a sign of humanity going dumber. We just start growing interest in other fields, leaving some other behind. If we stop aiming for spirituality, art will find its decay, but humanity will open its minds to something else.
And for the love of gods, when were people actually smarter than today?

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts and well let's see

@Dark Stalker: Yeah I understand your point and is true , islike nowdays we don't want to think and technology is good but just to certain point ..

@ cursed: That's an interesting thought but well it might be true but I was just thinking how come , now you can have millions of dollars and have no background in music and then if you want to do music you just pay and that's it , so what about us who spend years studying and things like that but well the other thing is that is true what you say but I don't know why is like I feel like there's nothing really new like before people really invented or why is it that we don't see that much prodigies in music and ohh let's not talk about Pop Culture , I don't have anything against it but as lyric content is becomng ridiculous , pop culture wasn't that bad in the 80's but now .... but well..

@The Alchemist : My friend yeah is perception everything is perception , what is white for me can be black for you , but well you know how I am and I love to wonder , and yes is lke we're not using our brains that much anymore , I mean everyone has the capacity to great things like before even greater but they have their mind set in money and things like that so in a way we're reversing , because we were suppose to be the "Millenium" so advanc and so you know but look at us is like we're so worst in some ways because in other ok I understand is better ...

@Dani: My dear yeah everything is a balance I guess, I just wonder a lot and I don't know if that's a bad thing , but yeah is true like technology brought us great things but at the same time destrucction maybe ? and yeah like I was telling Andres is perception and yeah is true everything is perception but then I guess nothing is nothing ...

@ lupas: I agree with you , is it defenectly true what you say , and I'm impressend of how much they used to wonder and how many things they created , things that no one does today , not many people are inventors we just enhance what we have and that's it , make it better but we don't invent anymore . Why ?because of what ou say everyone is so fix in the money and stuff that no one cares anymore about anything and about the climate ohhh boyyy ... movies like "The day after tomorrow" are not far from reality .. but nature will survive man no way ...

@Skald:Well you have a very interesting perception , and well I created this topic not to try to be smart or anything but just to wonder , because I'm a peson that likes to wonder what I see . As for ancient world I think they were more smarter than us , so who created so many things that we have today ?Them and what about traditions ?Them .. today we just enhance this and make it better but it was alredy there and about "Socrates " look around you , the people that like to wonder and ask questions are seen as "Freaks" or dangers to society ?sound familiar , even little kids , if you like to read or talk about topics that are not apt to your age then you're a total freak and no one talks to you , isnt the same kind of situation ?Because if those people accepted those ideas society will fall , so each day it get's studier following things that have mo meaning and those wo have meaning will never come to the light .

So true we advance insome stuff but leave others behind , thing that before happen but not as noticible as today , before they wonder a lot about everything , and try to created so many things and yes they had to read a lot but one thing they learn and they had shame ..if you killed someone it was bad and they knew it was bad , thing that today please everyone kills everyone and the killer doesn't care ..

and about what you say "And for the love of gods, when were people actually smarter than today" I think yes because they knew that everything had a balance and they respected nature which is God itself , thing that we don't do today , and they have a more uhmm interesting way of seing things .. of course they didn't understood that all those Gods was at the end one but at least they respected them and like I told you had shame , they knew the consequences of destroying nature do we know them today ?apparently NO
and well one thing that you got me thinking yeah they had their dark ages , and their ignorance like when women couldn't do music or anything in that ok I agree thng that we are advance today and it got me thinking , do we have dark ages yet reinassance thruout life? does the same thing repeats .. I'm wondering that so well maybe is my perception and that's your perception but I think that we the things we have to do we could have been inventors and not destruction but well again you got me thinking maybe we do evolved the way you say ...

About Sokrates, that's my point. People were same back then and today. Which puts into doubt Greeks were any more upright than people today.
About the entire Who?-Them! thingy. Who spread the religion which destroyed the nature-loving religions? Them! It all began in the ancient world. When Roman Empire started spreading, it took with itself Greek culture, but eventually also war-waging Christianity. So please don't pin to us something that was done by "them". And personally I'm more in favour of the Northern/Eastern culture of Europe, which quite frankly got wiped out by the Southern/Western one. I don't like this Greek "elitist, short hair, serve the government, be like everyone else" style of life. There are some good things that come from Ancient Greece, like the philosophy and art. But if you dig deep enough you'll also find wars, slavery and incompetent politicians among many other things.
And the massive population thingy (which in turn destroys nature) also comes from the ancient world. Most tribes around the Europe lived in smaller villages. It was the people of southern Europe who started building those massive cities. This isn't to say the tribes had much better resolution. Once Northern Europe started experiencing overpopulation, it simply triggered the viking times. And with this the rise of slavery, violence and all that stuff.
And with all respect, saying we don't have inventors today is a complete nonsense.

Written by Guest on 18.02.2007 at 18:46

About Sokrates, that's my point. People were same back then and today. Which puts into doubt Greeks were any more upright than people today.
About the entire Who?-Them! thingy. Who spread the religion which destroyed the nature-loving religions? Them! It all began in the ancient world. When Roman Empire started spreading, it took with itself Greek culture, but eventually also war-waging Christianity. So please don't pin to us something that was done by "them". And personally I'm more in favour of the Northern/Eastern culture of Europe, which quite frankly got wiped out by the Southern/Western one. I don't like this Greek "elitist, short hair, serve the government, be like everyone else" style of life. There are some good things that come from Ancient Greece, like the philosophy and art. But if you dig deep enough you'll also find wars, slavery and incompetent politicians among many other things.
And the massive population thingy (which in turn destroys nature) also comes from the ancient world. Most tribes around the Europe lived in smaller villages. It was the people of southern Europe who started building those massive cities. This isn't to say the tribes had much better resolution. Once Northern Europe started experiencing overpopulation, it simply triggered the viking times. And with this the rise of slavery, violence and all that stuff.
And with all respect, saying we don't have inventors today is a complete nonsense.

Ok yeah I understand your point , and I didn't thought of that , is very true what you say about the war and all of that , yeah you get your point , now as for inventors , I mean I don't know sometimes I feel like today people just don't have uhmmm how shall I say it maybe the same feeling of inventing like the same carisma ? it seems most people today are indifferent , and what I mean maybe is like before it was different .. do you think that history repeats itself ?

Aha, I understand how you feel about inventors then.
If you'll watch this lengthy video, in the end you should be amazed at what some people invent today (it's especially interesting at the later parts of the video).

And in a way, yes - I do think history repeats itself. Kind of like wave, which keeps gradually shortening its length (as the humanistic-theistic difference keeps decreasing) and amplitude (as the swaps between humanistic and theistic worldviews take less and less time).
So it would seem humanity is going towards a balance between humanism and theism, where the wave will practically no longer exist (due to minimal length and amplitude).

I certainly don't think that we are regressing! When America was sticking it to Iraq, i saw a survey on t.v. which was conducted with the help of quite a large number of american high-school students. The outcome was that allmost 40% of them couldn't identify Iraq on a map. But that doesn't mean tey were stupid, just that they din't pay attention in geography!

Back in the day when scientists were convinced that the world was flat, you could get into a world of trouble for challenging that theory. People couldn't even concieve that our planet could be any other shape but flat! Now that's stupid!

So you see the more time passes by the more we advance as well!

People are becoming less honest,predictible and good.As the time goes by people just wanna make money,live in luxirious houses etc.They give too much attention to nuisance lifestyles and people.I guess if we don't think or feel negative about planet,there will be no other time to feel it.I feel it is going due to our crimes socially and personally.The new millenium just brought old brains.

Skald is very right, but well as I said I think is always a matter of balance, I mean before in ancient times, the human had X and Y way of thinking and was curious about his sourrandings which brought all the ideas and inventions that we know today, but there were also problems, and violence in many cultures and well etc etc, which also brought us the problems we know today. So yeah like you said is like history repeat itself always, where today we have many advanced stuff, and we care and wonder about other stuff and we have the technology and the ways to prove stuff, that the ancient didnt have before. But the question is where are we going with that? as we advanced, also the problems grow, the violence and intolerance is always there so well I think is like and infinit cicle. There would be always be problems I dont believe we will come to an era where the civilitation reach a balance like you said between humanism, and theism, or with science and religion, I think there would always be a desproportion and growing bigger. And well maybe living in a third world country like mine make you think like that.

Written by Danigar on 19.02.2007 at 19:01

is like history repeat itself always

And well maybe living in a third world country like mine make you think like that.

About the history, I completely agree with you, the important thing is to learn the lessons of life, otherwise, that circle will repeat forever
As for the third world country, I don't agree my friend, because here in Colombia you see many poor people and violence, etc, but if you see carefuly, you'll see that there are lots and lots of money, there's technology, there are many scientists, researchers, and many other things that make me think that there are a lot of money and good things but they're not shared for all the people

Oh yeah my friend, youre right, I mean dont get me wrong I know theres plenty of good stuff, and not only in the technology and financial field, our country is rich in natural sources and people. The problem here as in many countries from here in south america, or Africa and well many many countries, is that like you say theres too much violence, and poberty, and imo I dont think thats something that is going to change any time, with a more advanced mentality or whatever. I mean I know I sound pessimist but I dont believe in humans when it comes to solve everyone's problems, there is always something, theres many people in need, and in our country you see that more closely and more deep that in say, countries in Europe. So yeah is a beautiful country and full of good people, what I meant was that countries like ours and societies in general tend to be in conflicts and wars always for X ot Y reason or W ideology, so is like we never go united to a common point and thats a good thing in part cause peple think and question, and in doing so they fight for their ideals, but is bad cause then it comes the violence and all the problems, so like I said there would always be two faces on the coin.

I forgot to mention one thing about us and is a perfect example of what I mean, If you see carefully our country and its history, thanks to his position, to his natural sources, and many more we could have been easily a world potence. But what happened, the people mistakes in the past, the wars, the missuse of the land and colonization ideas, you name it but that made us what we are today. So is like we would always destroy and waist what mother nature give us and those ideas of the perfect society, will lead leads nowhere I think, first nature will give us a lesson anytime soon jeje.

@Danigar: yes, I understand your point now, but those kind of problems are more evident in countries of Latin America or Africa, but almost all the countries of the world have similar problems, and in other cases, they have different problems, there'll always be something missing unless we accept our conditions, that's the first thing to answer problems and improve things, and of course, later comes the action

Yeah exactly we agree with that, no matter the condition of the countries there would always be some kind of problem and yeah well I think the question is that if as we advance we would solve those problems and improve things like you said, and in some cases we do, but who knows if we ever get to fix everything, before destroying ourlseves.

I agree with Icewing, our consumist society is destroying Earth in a extreme velocity. Our life is becoming only work and consumism, there is little time for fun and other stuffs. It's too crazy and stressing! And all life forms in our planet are suffering with our way of life. We have to change this and quicly! But most of people just don't care about this and I'm starting to believe that our end is near.

Written by Guest on 18.02.2007 at 22:38

Aha, I understand how you feel about inventors then.
If you'll watch this lengthy video, in the end you should be amazed at what some people invent today (it's especially interesting at the later parts of the video).

And in a way, yes - I do think history repeats itself. Kind of like wave, which keeps gradually shortening its length (as the humanistic-theistic difference keeps decreasing) and amplitude (as the swaps between humanistic and theistic worldviews take less and less time).
So it would seem humanity is going towards a balance between humanism and theism, where the wave will practically no longer exist (due to minimal length and amplitude).

Thank you that was a very nice video , and yeah it is amazing to discover all of that , I had a quantum mechanics book which I never understod but yeah I can get a sense of it now ,so well there's so many things in this world that we have to discover and that still we don't have the technology or whatever the case is to do so , but yeah you're right there were and are bright minds out there , true ,then another question comes into my mind , are we really inventing or discovering nature and the things God has put for us ?I guess some are discoverings like the earth is not flat , but the invensions sometimes are not so good , like the calculator I guess is not such a good invension , of course for big number and that yeah but for simple mathematical equations I don't think so , and it makes us lazy . Back to the question so yeah history repeats itself so could it be possible that just like we had dark ages and then reinssance could it be possible that we experience that all over again like a cicle? perphaps in a different way right .

and well could it be possible that one day religion and science come together ?I'm not sure but maybe I was thinking they have nothing different that much , I mean after all everything is created by God we just discover it right , like nature , nature is God is nothing but patterns and this like that , so is like everything goes hand in hand like some people believe that "third dimension" is mathematical pure geometry and maybe it is , so maybe they are not that far from each other it just that humanity has make them like that just like Human created religion , God never said ohh be christians or be jewish no , maybe God is science and then science is God ... ohh dear my mind is dangerous I wonder too much , but well here's a video I thought it was hilarious , of course not as good as you but it make think
http://youtube.com/watch?v=lWWKBY7gx_0

@ Remus : Wow how interesting , well maybe we are not regressing but I wondere what's happening , like education is a good point , the system is NOT right at all , and well before is not like it was so good but at least people wonder and aim for knowledge and we do today but the new generation is aiming fo rother things , you know I just wonder maybe is the balance of life ..not sure

@darksun: Yeah I see what you are saying , it is incredible to think that today people don't care if they kill someone , it is incredible to think all that violence and all of that , I don't know if the past was hidden and today's events are everywhere but it seems like before it was different , not sure like before maybe they didn't destroy nature that much , they respect it , but look at us today ...

@Danigar: Yes my dear , maybe everything is a balance , like I was telling Skald that since maybe history repeats itself then maybe there's the possibility that we experience dark ages and then reinasance but in another way , and well the other thing is that maybe they won't come together but maybe I'm thinking that God is science and science is God but it just that maybe people are making the difference , like how they make religion , but I was thinking well Nature is God right and Nature is full of mathematical patterns and is science so maybe the two are not so far from each other ...

@The alchemist : Well again like I was saying then history repeats , dark time come, new times come and so on , and about what Danigar said my dear , I think that this countries are like that because of political reasons maybe, because you are right in Colombia you find so many things and is you could feel the European essence kind of but then look at the countries that are in conditions like Colombia perphaps is the goverment just like Africa and so on .