Hello everyone, I am not a huge forum poster but I have a few questions concerning Death metal and thought it was a great time to post here.

I am a fan of black, viking, atmospheric, doom metal but have a hard time totally understanding the purpose of death metal. I can easily enjoy the mix of genres like death/doom, death/black and death/thrash because I feel there are more emphasis on changes of tempo or atmosphere compared to "pure" death metal (mostly true for death/black and death/doom...).

I might be totally wrong but that's basically how I feel about death metal and it makes it hard for me to feel the originality in it because it kind of always sounds similar? The only death metal I can truly get behind is some old scool Finnish death, or swedish bands like Merciless (death/thrashy) or Gorement (death/doomish) so I never feel like I TRULY can appreciate the genre or will ever do.

Another part which I would like someone to explain to me are guitar solos. What is exactly the purpose of guitar solos? To me, they rarely fit and pretty much breaks the atmosphere or the structure of the song and feel out of place, and is also probably the only thing I can't really enjoy in Bathory haha. So are guitar solos supposed to evoke any feelings or something, or is it just a technical show off?

And the last part, lyrics. I know some death metal bands have philisophical or other pretty deep lyrics but I see a lot of gore or very sexual ones and that instantly turn me off and find it pretty stupid. BUT maybe I am the one who is stupid and just don't get it?

Enlighten me!

I think that the purpose of every musical genre is sonic enjoyment?
I agree that death metal might be more samey than doom metal or black metal, but this is changing rapidly and fortunately, there has been a flux of forward thinking DM recently. In a way, death metal might be like what doom and black metal were 10 years ago: many high quality records comming out in the underground. There is no denial of the fact that the genre has gained a huge boost recently.
I am not a hug fan of solos personally, but your statement seems to be a total generalization. Needless to say that they are not exclusive to death metal.
Regarding the lyrics, well, you are a fan of black metal and complain about lyrics , Even doom metal has utterly cheesy lyrics many time. All in all, metal might not be the best place to find good lyrics.

Hmm I would say that metal IS a very good place to find good lyrics actually, and I would think that some black metal have really good lyrics, and especially some of the sub-genres, why do you think Doom and Black have bad lyrics? Sure, there are bands with bad lyrics, as with any other genre!

And yeah, about solos that's what I'm asking, I want to know why it's included in the songwriting process, I'm probably wrong about it. So to me it's more than just sonic enjoyment, the parts around it interests me a lot also (lyrics, meaning, purpose, song and album structure). Well I would say that solos rarely give me that "sonic enjoyment" anyway haha.

Differently from doom, black and atmospheric stuff like you enjoy, I don't think the "purpose" of death metal is evoking feelings on the listener generally speaking.
It seems to me that the purpose is more like playing songs for fun, for headbanging, say like heavy or thrash metal. With this in mind you will see that the solos make total sense. Here you are headbanging to some catchy death metal then the solo appears and you start playing on your air guitar along with it.

The goofy lyrics like sex or absurd gore also play a role on the "for fun" part. Notice that they can sing about anything, killing people, racism and such stuff and no one will take it seriously (except maybe some religious fanatics) while if a black metal bands sings about racism it's often taken more seriously for some reason. That also comes to the view that death metal is just fun metal with cliche lyrics to enhance the fun, while black is more based on atmosphere and is supposed to have some meaning on the lyrical themes...

About that you find them all similar to each other, well perhaps you are listening to bands that are actually similar, perhaps you just haven't trained your ears enough (you are going to agree that for a non-black metal fan black metal bands all sound the same, even though you can swear they're not). I think that in every genre if you listen to it enough you will often start seeing differences on the way the bands play, and bands you totally thought were similar before suddenly are a lot different later.

But I don't think you should force and try to "get" death metal by listening a lot more to get your ears used to it. If you don't like it, then you don't. I like to pick genres and find all the diverse and good stuff on that genre, provided that the genre makes sense to me. For instance, there's very little I can relate to in power metal, that's because power metal also isn't based on atmosphere, and I prefer genres atmosphere based myself too. I know that I could get into power metal if I started listening, getting used to it, then I'd start appreciating the solos and etc, but heh... How about no? =p

Written by Karlabos on 08.06.2015 at 17:55

Differently from doom, black and atmospheric stuff like you enjoy,[ I don't think the "purpose" of death metal is evoking feelings on the listener generally speaking.
It seems to me that the purpose is more like playing songs for fun, for headbanging, say like heavy or thrash metal.] With this in mind you will see that the solos make total sense. Here you are headbanging to some catchy death metal then the solo appears and you start playing on your air guitar along with it.

The goofy lyrics like sex or absurd gore also play a role on the "for fun" part. Notice that they can sing about anything, killing people, racism and such stuff and no one will take it seriously (except maybe some religious fanatics) while if a black metal bands sings about racism it's often taken more seriously for some reason. That also comes to the view that death metal is just fun metal with cliche lyrics to enhance the fun, while black is more based on atmosphere and is supposed to have some meaning on the lyrical themes...

About that you find them all similar to each other, well perhaps you are listening to bands that are actually similar, perhaps you just haven't trained your ears enough ([you are going to agree that for a non-black metal fan black metal bands all sound the same], even though you can swear they're not). I think that in every genre if you listen to it enough you will often start seeing differences on the way the bands play, and bands you totally thought were similar before suddenly are a lot different later.

But I don't think you should force and try to "get" death metal by listening a lot more to get your ears used to it. If you don't like it, then you don't. I like to pick genres and find all the diverse and good stuff on that genre, provided that the genre makes sense to me. For instance, there's very little I can relate to in power metal, [that's because power metal also isn't based on atmosphere, and I prefer genres atmosphere based myself too]. I know that I could get into power metal if I started listening, getting used to it, then I'd start appreciating the solos and etc, but heh... How about no? =p

Interesting answer.

First bolded part: My girlfriend keeps saying that it's not true for all death metal, and I believe her, some death metal bands have deeper lyrics and meaning, but to me still the "sound" and the overall riffs don't fit very well with these lyrics, in a way. But yeah death metal STILL feels a bit like a more "fun" genre and there is nothing wrong with that.

Second bolded part: Agreed ^^

Third bolded part: I actually feel the same about it.

Written by essbee on 08.06.2015 at 18:41

Written by Karlabos on 08.06.2015 at 17:55

[ I don't think the "purpose" of death metal is evoking feelings on the listener generally speaking.
It seems to me that the purpose is more like playing songs for fun, for headbanging, say like heavy or thrash metal.]

Interesting answer.

My girlfriend keeps saying that it's not true for all death metal, and I believe her, some death metal bands have deeper lyrics and meaning, but to me still the "sound" and the overall riffs don't fit very well with these lyrics, in a way. But yeah death metal STILL feels a bit like a more "fun" genre and there is nothing wrong with that.

Well, of course, there are always bands which are going to be more moody, that's why I said generally speaking xD
If you're looking for some examples of more diverse or atmospheric based death metal to listen to you should try the ones on this list by this guy here on MS.
But then again, the best examples are going to be like you said: death metal mixed with something and not essentially death metal. There's very few pure death bands that I could point out as dark and gloomy

You seem to like the atmospheric forms of extreme metal, death metal has little focus on atmosphere. It's about brutality, something crushing and fast that will get people headbanging. It's really just meant to be entertaining where people enjoy the riffs and drumming, not really the most emotional thing around. I think it's okay, but not my cup of tea.

Solos primarily serve as a bridge, giving some variety to a song by moving the main melodic line from the vocals to the guitar (though metal is unusual in that frequently the guitar is as much of or more of a melodic focus than the vocals, especially when they are screamed). They may be wanky, groovy, or emotive, but they all serve that same purpose in one way or another. Metalheads seem to demand them over other bridges partly out of tradition, and partly because they are often more interesting than riff oriented bridges as the melody changes throughout the whole thing.

Thank you all for your inputs, but I would like to add that while reading burzum.org, I've found that Varg also disliked that influx of "similar" sounding death metal coming out (he pointed out Deicide, Entombed and Morbid Angel in particular). First of all, I know that Varg is a crazy mofo and shouldn't be taken seriously in most cases haha, but at least I can relate to what he is saying about the scene at that time. Finnish and swedish had way more variety and originality back then so it's easier for me to find appeal in those scenes, in my opinion of course (again I want to stress how much I can be wrong about all of this haha)!

Black metal has its fair share of samey lyrics, the whole genre was founded on and is still dominated to this day by anti-Christianity/Satan worship. That is also, to answer Karla, why the genre is generally taken more seriously, because the musicians themselves and their ideologies are more often than not completely serious and write lyrics based in reality as far as their beliefs. Death metal lyrics are predominantly death infested because that's what the genre was founded on. Death metal isn't so much about "having fun" (that would be thrash and crossover) as it is about having an outlet for violent emotions that we can't or won't act in reality because it's illegal or unethical or whatever other reason. Death metal originated as and is still predominantly a genre of having an outlet for aggression, so the lyrics and overall grooving brutality provide both a mental and a physical outlet for emotions like anger, angst, frustration, fear, etc.

As for the solos, they're for all the aforementioned reason: bridges, emotions, tradition, wankery, etc. There is no specific set reason that death metal has solos. If you're going to ask why death metal has solos then you might as well ask why any genre in the history of music has solos. The reasons vary from musician to musician, regardless of genre.

In fact every genre has its clichés. Death metal is gore. Black metal is anti-religion, predominantly anti-Christianity specifically. Power metal is medieval fantasy. Heavy metal is preaching the Metal Bible. Thrash is partying. Alternative and nu metal are teen angst. Metalcore is crying about your social life. Deathcore is tough guy attitude.

Yeah I see, physical outlet for emotions is a good one and solos can totally make sense in such case. It's a bit weird that they would have gore thoughts like this but "can't" do it in real life, so does that mean that they are just psychos lol? I mean, all metalheads thought before about commiting some kind of crime (for their own or humanity's good) but when you read those lyrics it sometimes goes wayyyyyyyyyyy beyond that and I think that's when they might cross the line where it's just fun and blasphemy, I would guess.

Written by psykometal on 09.06.2015 at 21:39

Thrash is partying.

Only for 50% I'd say, the other 50% is dead serious about social injustice and such, threat of nuclear war (that was in the Eighties during the height of the Cold War)

If we speak all metal later sounds similar and DM was build whit its philosophy , what was purpose in every genre in begging, later it lost it
Think what in DM is strong and others as well is it must be good sound ingenre and ssoun ingeniere , otherwise 90's demo tapes can be throw in garbage

Admittedly, now that I'm being shown up by the old guys, I guess I was thinking of crossover, not actual thrash. :/

Written by essbee on 09.06.2015 at 15:47

Thank you all for your inputs, but I would like to add that while reading burzum.org, I've found that Varg also disliked that influx of "similar" sounding death metal coming out (he pointed out Deicide, Entombed and Morbid Angel in particular). First of all, I know that Varg is a crazy mofo and shouldn't be taken seriously in most cases haha, but at least I can relate to what he is saying about the scene at that time. Finnish and swedish had way more variety and originality back then so it's easier for me to find appeal in those scenes, in my opinion of course (again I want to stress how much I can be wrong about all of this haha)!

I agree with Varg that same-sounding death metal is overdone.

Written by deadone on 10.06.2015 at 03:05

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 09.06.2015 at 21:58

Written by psykometal on 09.06.2015 at 21:39

Thrash is partying.

Only for 50% I'd say, the other 50% is dead serious about social injustice and such, threat of nuclear war (that was in the Eighties during the height of the Cold War)

Thrash's reputation as party music is reasonably modern and seems to be rooted in the couple of bands that indulged in occassional goofie shit (and these days purely due to Municipal Waste) and in the late 1980s and early 1990s when some bands started turning goofie (e.g. Exdous as well as Lawnomower Death or the joke that is Tankard). In the 1980s it was Glam Metal that was fun party music. I don't recall thrash being regarded as party music in the 1990s either. What remained of it was quite serious - e.g. Slayer.

I'd say 95% of Thrash is serious - e.g. Metallica. Kreator, Slayer, Death Angel, Dark Angel, Overkill, Sabbat, Flotsam and Jetsam, Dark Angel, Testament, Destruction or even more modern bands like Evile and Warbringer.

Pretty sure most of those bands have a few goofy songs, definitely Slayer and Metallica. While hardly party music, I really wouldn't call Slayer quite serious by any means.

Written by deadone on 11.06.2015 at 05:52

Written by Ganondox on 11.06.2015 at 02:55


Pretty sure most of those bands have a few goofy songs, definitely Slayer and Metallica. While hardly party music, I really wouldn't call Slayer quite serious by any means.

Wow, now that's bizarre.

So Slayer with their extremely violent, aggressive, music with serious topics about serial killers, war criminals, war, murder, insanity, lying priests, human sacrifice, occult, is "not quite serious." By that definition neither is Death Metal (gore, occultism, murder, serial killers) or BM (vamps, prancing in forests, Norse mythology).

For what it's worth Slayer does not do "goofy" songs and neither was most of Metallica's Thrash period (Motorbreath and Whiplash aside but they're certainly not presented as goofy song). There are no "Beer Pressure" , "Born To Party", "Pussy Whipped" "Don't Call Me Dude" or "Suicyco Mania" or "Im The Man"'s here.


Same applies to most of the other bands I mentioned. Kreator come off as goofy but I suspect that's a language barrier issue. The occassional joke song penned by most bands doesn't prevent the fact they're 95% serious.

It would probably be helpful if you listened to this music (and as always more than just a cursory single song).

To be fair, one thing I've always loved about metal is it's juvenile nature even when it's trying to be serious. But that's an entirely different concept.

Slayer's topics are dark, but I wouldn't call them serious as generally they are more meant to shock than actually express their views. If Araya took Slayer's lyrics seriously, he wouldn't sing for them, being a devout Catholic and all. IMO Slayer is the least serious of the big 4; it's not the topic which makes something serious or not, it's the sincerity. And no, most death metal is not serious, unless they are one of those bands with the more philosophical or political lyrics, the lyrics are often completely ridiculous and they are often perfectly aware they are being ridiculous. It's more serious than grindcore, sure, but I'd say pop songs tend to be more serious as even if they're about partying, they're serious about partying. Black metal is usually more serious though, which in turn makes their ridiculous lyrics even more hilarious.

"The occassional joke song penned by most bands doesn't prevent the fact they're 95% serious." Notice I didn't argue that, I just said I'm pretty sure they have a few goofy songs, which is basically the exactly thing as saying "the occassional joke song".

Anyway, here are the examples I was referring to:

Metallica doing a goofy song:


Slayer doing a "goofy" (as in it's blatantly a joke with the twist they gave) cover:

Those are covers and not originals by the band so don't actually count. And Guilty Of Being WHite is actually an extremely serious song, same for So What.

>I've found that Varg also disliked that influx of "similar" sounding death metal coming out (he pointed out Deicide, Entombed and Morbid Angel in particular)
Most bands within a subgenre genre are similar. Or else they won't be in the same genre =P
And once something gets popular, you can't stop others from trying to be the next big thing or trying to one-up the original.

I agree to some extent that pure death metal is hard to "get". Then again, who am I to define "pure death metal"?

Anyway, I have a mini list of death metal albums that I enjoy for your reference (assuming you've checked out Death and Cynic):
Benighted - Icon
Bolt Thrower - Those Once Loyal
Septicflesh - Sumerian Daemons
Nocturnus - The Key

Some modern ones:
Dãm - The Difference Engine
Ulcerate - The Destroyers Of All
Kartikeya - Mahayuga
Medeia - Abandon All

For 2015, I'd recommend:
Autokrator - Autokrator
Chapel Of Disease - The Mysterious Ways Of Repetitive Art

At the end of the day, music is for enjoyment. If you don't like death metal in it's so-called purest form, it's fine! Just like quite a few here would wonder why people listen to general pop music (= Everyone can listen to whatever suits their tastes =P

Not trying to be an ass here, but why enlighten you? If you don't like it, fine. "Pure" death metal is to me a good punch in your face. Certainly not my favourite genre but when it's good, it's fucking great. Sometimes you just need something heavy.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.06.2015 at 15:18

Those are covers and not originals by the band so don't actually count. And Guilty Of Being WHite is actually an extremely serious song, same for So What.

The original Guilty of Being White, but not the Slayer cover. Okay, So What? is also a hardcore punk cover, but I'd hardly call a song about fucking goats and getting crabs to be extremely serious, even if there may be more serious undercurrents about sexual liberation.

To clarify, I agree thrash is generally serious, just that I think Slayer is a bad example for such, and that even the serious bands (read NOT Municipal Waste) had the occasional goofy moment, even if it's just a cover. For example Tool is much more serious than most metal, but they have a TON of joke songs. Also, back on topic, when I say death metal is meant to entertain and isn't serious, it's not because it's party music; it's like an action or horror film rather than a comedy. A drama, but not a serious one.

Metallica isn't actually contradicting themselves there, they are singing about different aspects of war. Specifically "Don't Tread On Me" clarifies they are still proud of America even though some things on "...And Justice For All" could be considered anti-American. Most bands are probably more sincere than you think they are in that regard. Though metal bands do often sing about random shit just to be edgy, so in general alternative music is more sincere. That's one of the reasons I'm more of an alternative fan.

Yes, most early grindcore political, I was mainly referring to gore and pornogrind, which have sorta taken over the public perception of grindcore.

"As for DM knowing they're being ridiculous - not really. Just Mr Benton or Mr Azagthoth." Hence the "often". Benton is a lunatic, there will always be loonies. Not sure if Azagthoth is a loony, as he hasn't gone quite as far as Benton in asserting his lack of sanity.

"So prancing around in forest or vampires is more serious than Slayer singing about war criminals? " Again, you completely missed the idea that the topic doesn't matter, it's the band's attitude. It's also a generalization between death metal versus black metal, not for every specific band. Slayer isn't death metal anyway, so your comment is out of context.

Covers do count. You either agree or you don't.

While there is such thing as silly sounding, there is no such thing as seriously sounding. Heavy/extreme != serious.

Written by Ganondox on 12.06.2015 at 11:16


Covers do count. You either agree or you don't.

So Metallica believed in everything on their Garage Inc. album?

Written by M C Vice on 12.06.2015 at 14:04

Written by Ganondox on 12.06.2015 at 11:16


Covers do count. You either agree or you don't.

So Metallica believed in everything on their Garage Inc. album?

Oh my gosh people, stop mixing the context of comments! I've never seen people have as much of a problem with this on any other forum. Anyway, a goofy cover counts as the band doing goofy song, that has nothing to do with my comment that Metallica is generally sincere.

Written by Ganondox on 12.06.2015 at 23:19

Written by M C Vice on 12.06.2015 at 14:04

Written by Ganondox on 12.06.2015 at 11:16


Covers do count. You either agree or you don't.

So Metallica believed in everything on their Garage Inc. album?

Oh my gosh people, stop mixing the context of comments! I've never seen people have as much of a problem with this on any other forum. Anyway, a goofy cover counts as the band doing goofy song, that has nothing to do with my comment that Metallica is generally sincere.

I thought you meant the band either agrees with the cover song or they don't. Never mind then.

I'm not going to argue with that, not because I agree, but because there is no point in trying.

Written by M C Vice on 13.06.2015 at 02:53

Written by Ganondox on 12.06.2015 at 23:19

Written by M C Vice on 12.06.2015 at 14:04

Written by Ganondox on 12.06.2015 at 11:16


Covers do count. You either agree or you don't.

So Metallica believed in everything on their Garage Inc. album?

Oh my gosh people, stop mixing the context of comments! I've never seen people have as much of a problem with this on any other forum. Anyway, a goofy cover counts as the band doing goofy song, that has nothing to do with my comment that Metallica is generally sincere.

I thought you meant the band either agrees with the cover song or they don't. Never mind then.

I should I have clarified that you either agree with that claim or not, sorry.

But So What and Guilty Of Being White are NOT goofy covers.

If you are a lot into black metal than you try bands such as : Bolt Thrower,Obituary and Death - i do like them a lot and well those guys might show you what good death metal can offer especially if you are into some simplistic forms of metal (hey i like black metal but often its simpler than death metal in terms of songwriting and composition).

Written by deadone on 15.06.2015 at 03:11

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 14.06.2015 at 17:13

But So What and Guilty Of Being White are NOT goofy covers.

They are if you don't understand the context of the lyrics due to English not being first language, poor comprehension skills or whatever.

I'm surprised he thought Guilty of Being White was goofy as it's lyrics are extremely serious. It's clearly a song about reverse racism, concept of white guilt and attributing all the problems of the world on the current generation of white people.

I'm sorry
For something I didn't do
Lynched somebody
But I didn't know who

You blame me
For slavery
A hundred years before I was born

Guilty of being white [4x]

[repeat intro]

Guilty of being white [4x]

I'm convicted
Of a racist crime
I've only served
19 years of my life

[repeat intro]

Guilty of being white [3x]
Guilty of being right



It does remind me of one young local metalhead thinking Kreator was an emo band cause of "Love Us Or Hate Us." Idiot didn't understand the lyrics were about the record industry.

My reading comprehension is NOT poor, I got a 790 on the SAT. You're the one who can't keep track of what's going on. I specifically said the Slayer cover was "goofy" because of the twist they made, while the original was very serious. The line that makes the Slayer version "goofy" is "Guilty of being right." Slayer changed the line as such to play with their reputation for being a "Nazis" and thus piss people off despite half the band not even being white by American standards. Araya has admitted he likes Slayer lyrics that piss people off, not ones he agrees with, that's why I say they aren't serious. As Tom Araya isn't even white by American standards, obviously their cover isn't serious. Context.

And "So What" is NOT a serious song. Yeah, it's boasting song, not just a sex song as I never actually read the lyrics, but if anything that just makes it less serious than I previously assumed.

Written by deadone on 15.06.2015 at 03:14

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 14.06.2015 at 21:22

Death

I assume you mean early Death (ie Scream Bloody Gore and Leprosy). Later Death was certainly not simplistic nor was it death metal (rather wanky progressive thrash/melodeath stuff).

nah simplistic part was about black metal which is in general simpler to play than death metal . But yeah if you want to try death metal i do believe that Death is good starting point.