I'll allow myself to copy the text from facebook that is going viral these days, written by a Canadian named Neal Cohen:

"A message to all anti-vaxxers:
Well, today we found out that my 5 month old daughter has the measles. Think about that for a second...my infant child contracted a disease that until recently had been virtually eradicated from our society. She is too young to be vaccinated (they get the MMR vaccine at 12 months) and so she is entirely reliant on the people around her to have the good sense to get theirs. It's called herd immunity.
Here's the thing about herd immunity; it only works if you have an overwhelming number of intelligent people surrounding idiots such as yourself. In other words, your justification of an irresponsible decision is that there are enough people around you being smart that you can afford to be stupid. Unfortunately, your "movement" has given other stupid people the impression that they should have a choice whether or not to vaccinate their children.
Vaccination is not a choice; it is a social responsibility. If everyone were to treat this social responsibility with the same disregard that you have, thousands and perhaps millions of children would be exposed to diseases that cause blindness, meningitis, encephalitis, croup, and other preventable complications. Your selfishness (or perhaps more accurately, the fact that you are a fucking moron) has put an entire new generation of children at risk to contract diseases that had been a non-issue for more than 100 years.
92% of doctors in North America are in agreement that the recent "anti-vax" movement is to blame for the resurgence of diseases like whooping cough and the measles. Nearly 100% of doctors agree that the benefits of vaccination greatly outweigh any risks associated with administration of the vaccines. Unfortunately, we have an outbreak of physicians who recently graduated from the University of Google that have outsmarted western medicine. Therefore I'd like to THANK YOU, in the most sarcastic tone possible, for the risk you've reintroduced to society's most at-risk, susceptible citizens. If your school age child contracts the measles, and your child infects others, you should be charged with criminal negligence. Of course that won't happen, but a guy can dream, can't he?
So thanks, "anti-vaxxers". I hope you get polio."

Written by toxx on 12.06.2015 at 11:16

Lately, several people (anti-vaccers) has concluded that shaken baby syndrome is not caused by abuse, but actually by vaccines! That's a nice one. There's apparently no limits to the evil of the pharma-industry and the worlds vaccine programs.

And, Rasputin, yes, I am well aware of the other side of the coin. But when it comes to the vaccines in question, I believe that they work, and that the risk involved with getting them is far less than if you choose not to. The only vaccine I have been reluctant of giving my children, or taking myself, is the one they rushed out for H1N1 flu (Pandemrix), during 2009. None of us got that one. And I don't regret it, seeing that a lot of children were diagnosed with narcolepsy as a result of that one. I am skeptic to pharmaceuticals, but I trust the good old vaccines, and I believe that they have saved a lot of people over the years.

I was anti H1N1 and I don't like the seasonal flu shots. The other ones I have no problem with, on that we can agree, but I have to know what is in them before I take them.

Written by deadone on 12.06.2015 at 06:52

Written by Rasputin on 12.06.2015 at 04:08

, it is all for profit.

It's always been for profit. Just about every single human endeavour ever has been for profit (even if that profit is not necessarily money but rather power or prestige).

I work in health and can tell you that most of our doctors are purely in it for the money and prestige. Many of the nurses are the same. I only do my job for $95,000 per annum and certainly not out of any sense of public good (that died years ago).

Humans are self serving creatures whose main goal is furthering themselves. Money makes the world go round.. It's always been like that and always will be.

Now that that's out the way, there is no reason to doubt the value of vaccines when you think about the drastic improvements in quality of life with vaccines being used to eradicate small pox in the whole world, or things like polio etc in the Western world.

One of my jobs is in the medical field as well, but I don't do it because of money, but because I like it, and I like saving the lives of the people, so it may not be dead, just hard to find.

I have no problem with the standard vaccines we have gotten as children for rubella, pox and other stuff, my only worry is, what is in them in this day and age. I recently discovered that the USA Pharmaceutical companies are testing various vaccines and medications in the Balkans, because even the people from South America got wiser and are not as easily fooled. I have several friends who work as Doctors/Nurses, that have told me pretty much the same thing, people are unknowingly made guinea pigs.

Written by Guest on 11.06.2015 at 22:42

Written by Ilham on 11.06.2015 at 12:27

We need a new plague.

...getting dark on it

I know, it gave me chills myself

I'd just like to point out that drug companies make very little, if any, profit off of vaccines. The real money is in overcharging for drugs that treat conditions but don't cure them.

Written by Guest on 12.06.2015 at 20:39

I'd just like to point out that drug companies make very little, if any, profit off of vaccines. The real money is in overcharging for drugs that treat conditions but don't cure them.

Baxter International made a fuckload during the H1N1 scare, especially when Obama signed a bill that you could not sue the company if you had any adverse side effects to include death. If they did not make money on it, they would not make it and lobby for it to be forced on the general public.

Written by Rasputin on 13.06.2015 at 01:21

Written by Guest on 12.06.2015 at 20:39

I'd just like to point out that drug companies make very little, if any, profit off of vaccines. The real money is in overcharging for drugs that treat conditions but don't cure them.

Baxter International made a fuckload during the H1N1 scare, especially when Obama signed a bill that you could not sue the company if you had any adverse side effects to include death. If they did not make money on it, they would not make it and lobby for it to be forced on the general public.

I can't find a reliable source to back up your claim that Obama signed any such law. He did make an emergency declaration which gave hospitals more leeway in the case of a massive swine flu outbreak though. I also can't find a reliable source to back up your claim that Baxter International made profits off of the swine flu vaccine. Companies that make vaccines can make profits off of other things y'know. They just generally do not from the vaccines themselves. The last part about "forcing" vaccines on the general public being proof that producing vaccines is profitable is, with all due respect, horseshit.

The only place I can find anything backing up your claims is Infowars and related sites like CBN and Fox.

Written by Guest on 13.06.2015 at 17:34

Written by Rasputin on 13.06.2015 at 01:21

Written by Guest on 12.06.2015 at 20:39

I'd just like to point out that drug companies make very little, if any, profit off of vaccines. The real money is in overcharging for drugs that treat conditions but don't cure them.

Baxter International made a fuckload during the H1N1 scare, especially when Obama signed a bill that you could not sue the company if you had any adverse side effects to include death. If they did not make money on it, they would not make it and lobby for it to be forced on the general public.

I can't find a reliable source to back up your claim that Obama signed any such law. He did make an emergency declaration which gave hospitals more leeway in the case of a massive swine flu outbreak though. I also can't find a reliable source to back up your claim that Baxter International made profits off of the swine flu vaccine. Companies that make vaccines can make profits off of other things y'know. They just generally do not from the vaccines themselves. The last part about "forcing" vaccines on the general public being proof that producing vaccines is profitable is, with all due respect, horseshit.

The only place I can find anything backing up your claims is Infowars and related sites like CBN and Fox.

My bad, it was Obama's secretary that signed it, but he approved it. Also, a fun fact, he had shares in the company when he was a Senator and still now. If they did not make money on this vaccine, why did they patent it then? Why would they make it? Why did they apply for a patent for H1N1 year or two before the official outbreak? You think it was a coincidence that the media was pushed to ramp up the bullshit story or a mass pandemic? Right.

Yes and people that don't vaccine their children are a danger to them and others.

Written by Rasputin on 14.06.2015 at 04:12

My bad, it was Obama's secretary that signed it, but he approved it. Also, a fun fact, he had shares in the company when he was a Senator and still now. If they did not make money on this vaccine, why did they patent it then? Why would they make it? Why did they apply for a patent for H1N1 year or two before the official outbreak? You think it was a coincidence that the media was pushed to ramp up the bullshit story or a mass pandemic? Right.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause

EDIT: I just finished doing another google search looking for sources saying that Obama owns stock in Baxter International and once again all of the sources are from conspiracy sites.

Written by Guest on 14.06.2015 at 11:17

Written by Rasputin on 14.06.2015 at 04:12

My bad, it was Obama's secretary that signed it, but he approved it. Also, a fun fact, he had shares in the company when he was a Senator and still now. If they did not make money on this vaccine, why did they patent it then? Why would they make it? Why did they apply for a patent for H1N1 year or two before the official outbreak? You think it was a coincidence that the media was pushed to ramp up the bullshit story or a mass pandemic? Right.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause

EDIT: I just finished doing another google search looking for sources saying that Obama owns stock in Baxter International and once again all of the sources are from conspiracy sites.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/19/us-flu-vaccines-idUSBRE90I0AI20130119

You are correct that the big Pharma does not make as much money from vaccines as it does from everything else, but I would say that it still makes enough. One thing that this "mainstream" source points out, is that if they don't sell enough vaccines, they will go to waste and they will not make money, which would explain why they generated so much hype, to scare people to go get immunized. And also, we live in capitalism, no one does anything for free, or at least not with some ulterior motive.

You do realize that by just stating "they are from conspiracy sites" I can pull up any media outlet and just say for CBS, MSNBC etc, "well, they are from maintream media sources."

Written by deadone on 15.06.2015 at 03:05

Written by Rasputin on 14.06.2015 at 14:58


http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/19/us-flu-vaccines-idUSBRE90I0AI20130119

You are correct that the big Pharma does not make as much money from vaccines as it does from everything else, but I would say that it still makes enough. One thing that this "mainstream" source points out, is that if they don't sell enough vaccines, they will go to waste and they will not make money, which would explain why they generated so much hype, to scare people to go get immunized. And also, we live in capitalism, no one does anything for free, or at least not with some ulterior motive.

You do realize that by just stating "they are from conspiracy sites" I can pull up any media outlet and just say for CBS, MSNBC etc, "well, they are from maintream media sources."

You do realise that as money hungry corporations, they'd just stop making vaccines if they couldn't match profit margins and focus on something that does? After all maximising shareholders return on equity is the sole purpose of the existence of any business.

That's the truth about money hungry evil corporations. They just stop doing things if they can't make a buck. Indeed about the only organisation doing any level of malaria cure research some 10 years ago was the US military as the big money hungry corporations didn't see any profit in finding a cure for an illness that mainly affects poor people in the third world. So if profit margins for these products are low and the products unecessary, then they'd switch out of them. They wouldn't keep hawking a product line that doesn't meet shareholder expectations especially when they would've paid off the investment in these decades ago.

I suspect that in this instance the corporations are probably taking a hit on "rate of return" in favour of some public good (and it could be there's government regulations demanding production of vaccines etc).

I always find it funny that people think that corporations go out of their way to ram products down their throats. They don't bother if they can't make oodles of money out of a product or aren't forced too to do it.

They get money from the government for the vaccines, and I think up until recently you could've sued the pharmaceutical company if you had adverse side effects to the vaccine, now you can't do that, you have to go through the US government that has funds set up for things like that.

They don't have to ram it down your throats, no no matter what, you use their products. Pharmaceutical industry and it's companies have their fingers in too many pies, people just don't realize that. Corporations only care about making money, everything else is secondary.

Written by deadone on 16.06.2015 at 02:20

Written by Rasputin on 15.06.2015 at 20:59

Corporations only care about making money, everything else is secondary.

Of course they only care about money. Corporations are set up with the sole goal of making money just like any other business be it a fish and chip shop, a legal firm or a whorehouse. They're not set up for airy fairy values of making society a better place. It's called capitalism.

There's no conspiracy here.

Getting outraged over corporations wanting to make money is like getting outraged at fish swimming in water.

And this is why we have governments and irritating regulations to manage people's behaviour, be it to stop us killing one another or to curb the worst excesses of greed.

I didn't say it was a conspiracy, I just merely pointed out that I disagree with money over life/livelyhood mentality, especially from the industry that provides medicine. But I think too much capitalism and greed is not a good thing

A friend of mine's baby reacted and died within 48 hours of receiving a DTaP vaccine. Her baby was a micro-preemie (born at 2 pounds). The DTaP vaccine makers even specifically warn about its danger to preemie babies, as their weak immune system can't handle it, but doctors in the USA don't read or listen. To keep her from reporting this as a vaccine death, they threatened to have the state take away her other children, as if the death were her fault.

You may say that this is just a single anecdotal case, but even the US Gov. statistics show that infant mortality in industrialized countries is directly related to number of vaccines in infants, with the countries with the most vaccines also having the highest infant mortality.

Here's the data on infant mortality, and I'm anti-vaccine because I'm a statistician (by college degrees).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170075/

I'm not trying to stop anyone from getting vaccines who wants them. I just believe in natural medicine, natural immunity, etc. for myself and family.

Written by carltonh on 18.06.2015 at 06:30

Here's the data on infant mortality, and I'm anti-vaccine because I'm a statistician (by college degrees).

And this matters when discussing medicine how?

Written by carltonh on 18.06.2015 at 06:30

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3170075/

You must not be aware that there are a multitude of diseases that can kill children that have no vaccine and are instead prevented by modern sanitation and medical care. Just look at the way Libera dealt with the recent ebola outbreak versus the way Nigeria handled it. The former has a very poorly developed infrastructure in both categories while the latter is among the best in Africa.

Written by carltonh on 18.06.2015 at 06:30

I'm not trying to stop anyone from getting vaccines who wants them. I just believe in natural medicine, natural immunity, etc. for myself and family.

Only a spoiled westerner living today could make such a ridiculous choice. Go back 100 years and see how long "natural" medicine protects you against small pox, diphtheria or typhoid.

I don't think natural medicine is a total write off in a milder sense and is becoming more common these days now scientist are understanding how things work more and how to use them, how to extract certain chemicals and things i'll pretend to know lots about. Things like st johns wort, 5htp and just look at what they are doing with cannabis now.

Written by deadone on 18.06.2015 at 09:18



They're still not the types of things that would eradicate small pox or polio or measles or whatever. They're not the things that will keep the flu away (something all us involved in health really worry about cause while for most of us it's an inconvenience, for sick and elderly patients it's a massive risk).

hence why i said "in a milder sense"

Written by deadone on 18.06.2015 at 05:15

Quote:
You may say that this is just a single anecdotal case, but even the US Gov. statistics show that infant mortality in industrialized countries is directly related to number of vaccines in infants, with the countries with the most vaccines also having the highest infant mortality.

Is that a proven correlation? Are the deaths due to vaccines or are they due to other factors?

Finally infant mortality rates are so low in the Western world that they are negligible.

Also child deaths under 5 years old are also generally extremely low, partially due to vaccines.

Can't speak for other countries, as I don't really have the knowledge, but here's a few numbers from Norway.
We have one of the lowest mortality rates for children under 5 years in the world. And by the age of 2, they have gotten all the vaccines in the program before 5. next vaccine is given at the age of 7-8 years. In total there is 9 vaccines in the Norwegian program (counting the HPV-vaccine for girls)
There is about 200 deaths a year (Children under the age of 4), mostly because of sudden infant death (crib death). Can't stick that on vaccines, though I know a lot of anti-vaxxers do. Some children are sadly lost to cancer. Can't stick that on vaccines either. I don't rally think there is a correlation between child mortality and the vaccine program. But if there is believable statistics on this, not coming from som conspiracy website, I would be more than happy to read it.

Gotta say I agree with deadone on this.

Like Churchill (I think it was him) said: There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 18.06.2015 at 11:34

Like Churchill (I think it was him) said: There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.

statistics can be false too.......it's all a conspiracy

Something else to consider when comparing infant mortality rates between different countries is that the criteria they use to determine live births can vary quite a bit. One country can have a very narrow definition based on weight or age of the infant while another can basically leave it up to the doctor. This applies to all statistical comparisons between different countries.

I do. I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I was and then a good friend of mine told me the truth about vaccines. He knows his stuff when it comes to science.

My wife works at a hospital that makes it mandatory to get the flu vaccine which, in my opinion, feels rather dystopian. The flu vaccine merely consists of perceived remedies for flu strains that some corporate big-wigs think are going to be popular during whatever given year the vaccine is being administered in. It's not a cure and it's not universally effective either, obviously. Eh, it's all too much of a shot in the dark in my eyes to be considered mandatory. Furthermore, medicine, as a whole, is a personal choice that shouldn't be dictated by employers, corporations and the like. I mean, it's bad enough the exploitation of capitalism is where it's at presently in the health-care industry without things like this being added to the fray.

I don't see any difference between letting people not to vaccinate themselves or their kids and allowing random assholes to carry weapons. One of the great accomplishments of human civilization is decease control. Some people just have too much time to waste and shit to spread. And yes; that's another accomplishment of human civilization, unfortunately.

Written by Mick Bynes on 22.06.2015 at 09:49

I do. I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I was and then a good friend of mine told me the truth about vaccines. He knows his stuff when it comes to science.

Wow. Not too many cases like that in my experience. I know loads and loads of people who don't vaccinate their kids, not even with scheduled childhood vaccines and I can't get any of them to listen to reason. It's always the same long ago debunked garbage about mercury this, big pharma that, autism those etc. You have my deepest respect for changing your mind when presented with scientific evidence.

Vaccinations have emerged as one of the most emotional issues of the 2019 legislative session, spurred by a growing number of outbreaks of measles, whooping cough and other diseases across the country.1

I trust vaccines but you have to admit that accepting that the government can force you to take an injection would require a large amount of trust in government.

Written by Vincenzo E on 27.05.2019 at 21:24

I trust vaccines but you have to admit that accepting that the government can force you to take an injection would require a large amount of trust in government.

I think we can trust the government to prefer a healthy citizenry to one that is dying/ill. If nobody is well, then nobody's working and paying taxes, nobody is ready for military service etc.