I believe that being artistic has much more to do with the sheer enjoyment it brings than the complexity it might hold. As a matter of fact, 'simple' is an art unto itself. This is one of my favorite albums of all time. I respect the opinions however of this review; interesting read.

I thought this album was on part with Summoning's best work to be honest. I don't care if they sound the same, it's a great album to me.

While I understand where you're coming from (even if I disagree with your summation and general feeling toward the album), I have to take serious issue with one statement you make:

"The epic sound means that the atmosphere is only epic in the way that a lengthy book series is epic for being lengthy. A thick book without interesting characters, emotionally gripping plotlines, or surprising twists is not epic in any other sense of the word."

I can only assume you haven't read the Malazan Book of the Fallen by Steven Erikson and Ian C. Esslemont, which this entire album and even the band's name is inspired by or have read much about them, but as someone who has, I can tell you that the album very well captures the often hopeless, grim nature of that series, which is clearly the aim; the series doesn't in any way, shape or form lack for "...interesting characters, emotionally gripping plotlines, or surprising twists..." I imagine a band could make a Blind Guardian-esque length career off of writing about the specific characters, twists and paths of the books, like Blind Guardian have for Tolkien's works.

Echoes Of Battle doesn't seek to do this. Instead, it concentrates on either large scale events (each of which have the backdrop of either centuries or millenia of history building up to it), or the struggle of specific races and/or societies (again, with a rich backstory behind each) rather than specific characters or twists in the plot. Which is why, personally, I find the choice of style, that of an atmospheric, epic type (obviously of a Summoning worshipping variety) to be very fitting for the subject matter.

Re-visting this album and my review today. I appreciate the comments and I am starting to think I might have been too harsh on Caladan Brood here. I guess this is what happens, when someone, who has recently started learning music theory and composing music tries to evaluate an album that isn't trying at all to be complex. It's so easy to think you know better than you actually do in this situation, it is so easy to make the mistake of approaching an album from a completely wrong angle. While Summoning and Caladan Brood and other similar bands still aren't my exact cup of tea, I think I've slowly learnt to appreciate this style a bit more in the last 6 months. I'd never rate this lower than with 7.5 if I were to re-review it. Also, I wouldn't use expressions such as "not much effort in the songwriting", since that once again, is pretending to know more than I can know, at least when it comes to bands, who's style isn't exactly my taste.

@ Druss: Thank You for the information about Caladan Brood's inspirations, you are a true fan of the band!

Claims to not be an atmospheric black metal fan and reviews it lol this was a shit review, this album is phenomenal and studying music theory has nothing to do with having an ignorant lack of knowledge of the genre or soul that is in this music go back and study some more cause I'm a composer too, heart isnt taught through notes it is learned in emotion.

You should literally be ashamed to write such a shit review literally did you even listen to it? Funny 350 other people disagree with you and it's got a rating of 8.75 after 7 years. Studying music theory doesnt mean you understand music bud and clearly your proved that by dissing one of the best atmospheric black metal albums ever made

Written by ATG on 20.06.2020 at 02:30

Claims to not be an atmospheric black metal fan and reviews it lol this was a shit review, this album is phenomenal and studying music theory has nothing to do with having an ignorant lack of knowledge of the genre or soul that is in this music go back and study some more cause I'm a composer too, heart isnt taught through notes it is learned in emotion.

You should literally be ashamed to write such a shit review literally did you even listen to it? Funny 350 other people disagree with you and it's got a rating of 8.75 after 7 years. Studying music theory doesnt mean you understand music bud and clearly your proved that by dissing one of the best atmospheric black metal albums ever made

I was going to dissect this response in-depth, but then I realized I don't give a shit.

So yeah, I should be ashamed, I am ashamed. I apologize for this review. I shall go repent.

A typical internet phenomenon but also one of the biggest and oldest mysteries of human social behaviour that is as yet largely unexplored:

reviewer: 7.0 (= good)
"fans":

Written by Metren on 20.06.2020 at 03:49

So yeah, I should be ashamed, I am ashamed. I apologize for this review. I shall go repent.

I always appreciate hearing an opinion that runs counter to the general consensus, particularly in regards to things that are deemed classic, timeless, legendary, etc. whether or not I side with the majority, so this was an interesting review for me regardless of its reception.

That said, I think dedicating almost the entirety of the review to preamble and chord progressions was a bit much, but we all come across albums that trigger certain things in us to criticize. I've rambled about really specific things before that nobody else seemed to even notice.

As for the comment you quoted, keep in mine he's doled out over 200 10 votes, which typically reflects someone who is easily satisfied and/or incapable of discerning levels of quality. That kind of fan will always take pride in telling you just how much of an idiot you are for not seeing the masterpiece that is everything ever made.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 20.06.2020 at 06:00

I always appreciate hearing an opinion that runs counter to the general consensus, particularly in regards to things that are deemed classic, timeless, legendary, etc. whether or not I side with the majority, so this was an interesting review for me regardless of its reception.

Cool. I am that way myself. I enjoy negative reviews of Opeth albums that I myself love for example.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 20.06.2020 at 06:00

That said, I think dedicating almost the entirety of the review to preamble and chord progressions was a bit much, but we all come across albums that trigger certain things in us to criticize. I've rambled about really specific things before that nobody else seemed to even notice.

I've come to dislike this review myself tbh, for the reasons you gave above. I think this was one of my earliest reviews here and I did indeed have an almost unhealthy obsession with chord progressions and still do to some extent.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 20.06.2020 at 06:00

As for the comment you quoted, keep in mine he's doled out over 200 10 votes, which typically reflects someone who is easily satisfied and/or incapable of discerning levels of quality. That kind of fan will always take pride in telling you just how much of an idiot you are for not seeing the masterpiece that is everything ever made.

I am sincerely not bothered by negative comments on my reviews or negative opinions in general, I was just in a sarcastic mood when replying to him. That said, I can sort of understand why one would react like he did if he truly loves this album. I think when people say things along the lines of "X or Y album saved my life", there's something there (not that he said that, but still). It has never happened to me, but some individuals do form such a strong emotional connection to certain works of art that when someone else criticizes those works, they feel personally attacked. It's a silly way to be, but on some level I understand it. It's bizarre behavior to see from someone who seems to be an adult and not a 13-year-old, but still.

I guess the 200+ perfect votes does shoot the idea that this album is truly special even in his eyes in the foot, but maybe this is one of those albums that he'd rate an 11 if he could. Either way I hope AlexanderTG comes back with a less emotionally charged criticism of my review and articulates why he loves this album. We all write the occasional bad/silly comment and I believe he can do better in his next response. 

This album from start to finish is phenomenal. Between the melancholy that occurs at the start with City Of Azure Fire to the ending choir's of Book Of The Fallen, its pretty hilarious you both spent enough time to discover that I've listened to more music than you have and rated 200 10s, I've been on this site since 2010 so thats 20 albums a year as a 10, so get a reality check and most albums I've only recently started rating so I'm positive I listen and know more than both of you combined as apparent by your lack of knowledge and studying "music theory" which means nothing for constructing music, and if so why have you not made something successful? So you to take liberal shots and prove to be passive aggressive and call me a 13 year old when you prove to act like a middle aged woman in metapose is hilarious at best and makes me smile that it literally bugged you so much to reply to what I was pointing out as the truth of what the majority say and that you have no clue what you are saying and just trying to sound more understanding of a genre of music you clearly dont understand whatsoever. Do yourself a favor listen to the album and enjoy it if you dont then thats fine but cause you dont understand atmospheric black metal then why would you write a review on it? Lol it's honestly retarded

I listen to music emotionally and it's why I don't write reviews on here because I cant come up with words to describe something I feel in my heart or soul, obviously neither of you understand music on that level and judge it based on a "educated" level which shows by your lack of knowledge in response and passive aggressiveness. I dont need to defend music I love as I'm sure you both understand the life of a metalhead I refuse to rationalize personal opinions to people who dont even comprehend the music.

Written by ATG on 21.06.2020 at 06:24

This album from start to finish is phenomenal. Between the melancholy that occurs at the start with City Of Azure Fire to the ending choir's of Book Of The Fallen

I am glad you get more enjoyment out of this album than I do. That's great, and nothing anyone says about this album or the band can take that away. Nor do I desire to take that away. My criticisms have to do with the album and with how I feel about it, not with the fans of the album. Tastes differ and that's a positive thing.

Written by ATG on 21.06.2020 at 06:24

I'm positive I listen and know more than both of you combined as apparent by your lack of knowledge and studying "music theory" which means nothing for constructing music

Music theory is actually incredibly useful for understanding musical compositions and it is necessary for playing instruments correctly. It can also be useful in composing music and analyzing music, even though you are correct if you say it isn't absolutely necessary for creating good songs. I know Thom Yorke of Radiohead can't read sheet music (as per what he said in an older interview), but he still writes amazing stuff.

My purpose in discussing chord progressions in this review wasn't to show off knowledge of music theory, it was to give structure to what would've otherwise been a less particular criticism along the lines of "the harmonies bore me".

Written by ATG on 21.06.2020 at 06:24

why have you not made something successful?

I have released exactly as many atmospheric black metal albums as Caladan Brood, that is to say one. The album received an 8/10 score here on Metalstorm from a Staff review and if memory serves, three individuals placed my work in their "Best of 2017" list. By no means a mainstream success, but people seemed to like my music. A small success, but a success nonetheless.

Also, when last I checked, most music critics and people who write reviews don't release music themselves. That's the great thing about the internet, we all get to have opinions on art and to express them and the opinion of someone like myself who has made some music and someone else who has not is just as good or bad as the other's.

Roger Ebert wasn't Stanley Kubrick, but he still understood and criticized films. And you don't need to be a chef in a 5-star restaurant to be able to tell that instant noodles aren't an amazing culinary masterpiece.

Written by ATG on 21.06.2020 at 06:24

So you to take liberal shots and prove to be passive aggressive and call me a 13 year old

What I said was that it is weird to see behavior like yours from someone who is not 13 years old. I didn't mean it as an insult and I apologize if it came across as an insult. It was just me being genuinely baffled.

Written by ATG on 21.06.2020 at 06:24

makes me smile that it literally bugged you so much to reply to what I was pointing out as the truth of what the majority say

"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect" - Mark Twain.

Written by ATG on 21.06.2020 at 06:24

and that you have no clue what you are saying and just trying to sound more understanding of a genre of music you clearly don't understand whatsoever. Do yourself a favor listen to the album and enjoy it if you dont then thats fine but cause you dont understand atmospheric black metal then why would you write a review on it? Lol it's honestly retarded

Atmospheric black metal is my favorite subgenre of metal. Us disagreeing on the quality of a work from the genre doesn't mean I don't "understand" atmoblack.

Written by ATG on 21.06.2020 at 06:24

I listen to music emotionally and it's why I don't write reviews on here because I cant come up with words to describe something I feel in my heart or soul, obviously neither of you understand music on that level and judge it based on a "educated" level which shows by your lack of knowledge in response and passive aggressiveness. I don't need to defend music I love as I'm sure you both understand the life of a metalhead I refuse to rationalize personal opinions to people who dont even comprehend the music.

This reminds me of a play titled The History Boys. At one point, one of the characters reads a poem and then says: "In other words" only for another character to stop him and point out that if what he read is art then there are no other words; any attempt to paraphrase the work will unavoidably lose some of its essential meaning. If this is your view on things and that view is indeed that art is irreducible and that any attempt to explain or summarize it will end up losing something in that explanation or summary, then I get that, I really do.

That said, I personally feel that discussions and debates centered on art or a particular work of art are an extension of the escapism that the art itself offers. If you don't see any value in reviews and critiques in general, then there's nothing much else to say.

P.S. Apparently you sent me a PM about how I shouldn't rate Enslaved's "Isa" a 10, but blocked me from replying. If you don't wish to have a discussion, then just state so here.

Credit to the reviewer for acknowledging some oddities in the review.
Echoes of Battle is one of my favorite albums of any type, so I obviously disagree with the rating, but the explanation was well thought out even if I disagreed with...all of it.