Written by necrovamp on 23.05.2007 at 00:31

Im wiht you, fordo dude, you have almost my way of think except for wht you belive, i belive something entirly diffrent, but tith the whole thats what they do, let them get on with it, im with you on that

Thank you....well....as I said...I don't force others to believe what I believe....I just have my own little dreams and if these aren't true then....bad for me....some people have already said that I think and act like Christian version of Varg....I don't know which one of us would be worse in that case then......me or him....

They thought that Dimmu Borgir is a person's name!!!!

Written by Dane Train on 08.05.2007 at 22:08

Yeah, I totally agree. What bothers me is how everyone else gets caught in the middle. Extreme Fundamentalists assume all Metalheads are members of Burzum and likewise Extreme Metal fans tend to think all Christians are Roman Catholic or evangelical Fundamentalists who oppress everyone. Sadly that sort of mentality trickles down on both sides.

well, there are places, like Romania, where it's not really like that. i mean, the majority of the population thinks of us as brainless devil worshipping people etc. but here at least, there is moderation, there aren't that many christian morons(don't know if there are as many Metalhead morons though), this is because almost EVERYONE is either Christian or Atheist, so you just can't not deal with Christians if you are an atheist, to the extent of almost everyone i know is a Orthodox, i only know about 2 other atheists, and one muslim. so since most people i know are Christians, and of course they are not all morons, it's against logic to think like this here.

probably it's because there aren't many fundamentalists and people like the Westboro Baptist Church or something in the first place..



as for "what's metal done to bridge the gap between the metal subculture and Christianity?" i agree.

i mean if there would be a video with a christian holy man preaching about how obscene to the world of Christendom are bands like Deicide or Slayer(of course, he doesn't know Araya is in fact a catholic) there would be tons of replies with something like:

'i want to be like Deicide' or
'WTF Slayer rules ignorant Christian monkeys!! all of you can suck Jesus cock!!!!!!' or
'Glen Benton isn't the Antichrist... I AM THE ANTICHRIST HAHAAHAHAA'...

i mean really, what's a typical christian to do when he sees such texts?? it's really no wonder why there is so much social stigma, the people who write stuff like that on internet forums WANT it, and i personally feel caught in a crossfire, i'm not really a typical fan of metal, short hair, only band shirts, no leather and other stuff, but i still get fired at from tr00 christians..

Written by Ernis on 23.05.2007 at 02:34

some people have already said that I think and act like Christian version of Varg....

If you're going to have any belief, take it seriously, I say.

Written by necrovamp on 05.04.2007 at 23:45

I don't see a satanist doing that to christians

actually i greatly disagree here

in the metal scene it's an absolutely retarded but immensely popular trend to hate the church, only few of the (almost all)metalheads who do so can actually name any concrete reasons, good arguments are really scarce, those that do have "reasons" usually have agonizingly bad ones. "religion has killed more people than anything else" as an example.
so fucking what? if not religion then something else would have been the cause of those wars, there was always a second reason

anyway what i want to say is this. i believe that almost all of the metalhead community have at one time or another said very hateful things about and very many also to members of the church, absolutely without any reasons or knowledge about the subject, yet since the majority of metalheads is very arrogant and believes the averahe metalhead to be more intelligent then the average other person, none of them will admit it

dont get me wrong, i'm not religious myself, it's just that this anti-religious nonsense common among metalheads really bugs me sometimes

think this way, how many people are happier because of their faith? if what they believe is true or not doesn't matter at all, just the fact that they can hold on to it and that doing so makes them happier is enough to make religion something good

Written by Bas on 17.07.2008 at 18:03

think this way, how many people are happier because of their faith? if what they believe is true or not doesn't matter at all, just the fact that they can hold on to it and that doing so makes them happier is enough to make religion something good

Faith is one thing. This world could do with more actual faith. Religion is a whole different story.

Faith has created many beautiful things and has helped shape our evolution as a civilization since the begining. Religion on the other hand has always caused more harm than good.

And I'm not just pointing the finger at Christians here. This is a human thing.

Written by Gordon Freeman on 17.07.2008 at 18:38

Written by Bas on 17.07.2008 at 18:03

think this way, how many people are happier because of their faith? if what they believe is true or not doesn't matter at all, just the fact that they can hold on to it and that doing so makes them happier is enough to make religion something good

Faith is one thing. This world could do with more actual faith. Religion is a whole different story.

Faith has created many beautiful things and has helped shape our evolution as a civilization since the begining. Religion on the other hand has always caused more harm than good.

And I'm not just pointing the finger at Christians here. This is a human thing.

still i believe that apart from religion being a natural thing to occur in every single culture (think about, every single culture we now of that existed had some deity or another, be it spirits, ghosts, gods or just one god, every single culture had some omnipotent beings that they thought to decide over their fate) many forms of violence are also natural occurrences

what i believe is that while religion might often be a trigger for violence of any kind, it's never the real reason, or rather; if the reason weren't religion, there'd be another reason with exactly the same consequences

for example music. (keep in mind that the phenomena of violence because of music is very new because it wasn't long ago that music diversity didn't exist, music diversity is an extremely new thing itself after all) emo kids get beaten up or being mobbing-victims because of their style of music, and i'm sure every metalhead who reads this has experienced forms of mobbing because of his or her musical taste as well. or it doesnt have to be metal and emo; many kids and teens get teased really badly because of a certain pop idol they downright worship. rap fans beating each other up because of their favourite artists disliking each other

you get the point.
there were times in which people were victims of violence because of their religion (for example catholic kids mobbing kids of atheistic or even protestant families) and it still happens in many places, and nowadays in many places where religion isnt that important anymore the same happens over music

what i'm trying to say is just that religion isnt a reason for violence, it's an excuse, just like music is only an excuse in my examples, those people i mentioned would be bullied exactly just as hard about other things if their musical taste were different

Written by Bas on 17.07.2008 at 19:59

still i believe that apart from religion being a natural thing to occur in every single culture (think about, every single culture we now of that existed had some deity or another, be it spirits, ghosts, gods or just one god, every single culture had some omnipotent beings that they thought to decide over their fate) many forms of violence are also natural occurrences

what i believe is that while religion might often be a trigger for violence of any kind, it's never the real reason, or rather; if the reason weren't religion, there'd be another reason with exactly the same consequences

for example music. (keep in mind that the phenomena of violence because of music is very new because it wasn't long ago that music diversity didn't exist, music diversity is an extremely new thing itself after all) emo kids get beaten up or being mobbing-victims because of their style of music, and i'm sure every metalhead who reads this has experienced forms of mobbing because of his or her musical taste as well. or it doesnt have to be metal and emo; many kids and teens get teased really badly because of a certain pop idol they downright worship. rap fans beating each other up because of their favourite artists disliking each other

you get the point.
there were times in which people were victims of violence because of their religion (for example catholic kids mobbing kids of atheistic or even protestant families) and it still happens in many places, and nowadays in many places where religion isnt that important anymore the same happens over music

what i'm trying to say is just that religion isnt a reason for violence, it's an excuse, just like music is only an excuse in my examples, those people i mentioned would be bullied exactly just as hard about other things if their musical taste were different

Yeah I know. It's human nature to be violent. My problem with religion is that it is a powerful base for people with extremist views in which they can take over and control other people's lives.

History has proven that nothing good comes when governments are controlled by a single religion.

In my country, with our slumping economy and our poor view in the eyes of the international community, the only thing that really scares me and keeps me up at night is the thought that religion is so close to governing the way the country is run.

Written by Gordon Freeman on 17.07.2008 at 20:16

History has proven that nothing good comes when governments are controlled by a single religion.

let me correct; history has proven that it almost never works out when the government is ruled by a single person or a single institution

in other words, you're absolutely right
however; the same is true if a single dictator makes the decisions or any specific group for that matter

only by having different people/institutions making decisions can you guarantee that many different groups of the population have their needs and wants put forward
(and if that only happens for a certain part/group of the population... well it usually doesn't end peacefully)

Written by Bas on 17.07.2008 at 19:59

what i'm trying to say is just that religion isnt a reason for violence, it's an excuse, just like music is only an excuse in my examples, those people i mentioned would be bullied exactly just as hard about other things if their musical taste were different

it may be a simple excuse for violence, but even when religion is not promoted with a violent undertone or something, it can give birth to a counter-current: we aren't told what music to like, aren't we? we can choose a lot easier what music to listen to, unless of course we're retarded 'kewl d00d' teens who will jump on every bandwagon. we can choose music, but most of the times we cannot choose religion, and over here, it's DAMN NEAR IMPOSSIBLE. the parents/ society FORCES(yes, forces) religion down our throats, regardless of what you might say, and a particular mindset is seeded in the brain of the kid, and that is why we have so much homophobia here, religious intolerance etc.

about the religious intolerance/homophobia, it's true it's simply human nature to feel some sort of hatred towards anyone who is different, but religion is a catalyst of these feelings: in europe there is a strong dissociation from religion, people go to church like 5-6 times in their lives, and they're carried in on 2 of them, while here there are TONS of people attending religious pilgrimages, etc. what place is more homophobic?

and i don't really think you got as much shit as i've got for being a declared atheist for about 2 years or so.. people start thinking 'oh no, he will burn in hell.. i must "save" him', while i personally have never EVER tried to convince other people to be of any certain religion... guess who's entitled to be angry at Christianity and the at least 20% retarded 'preachers'? and i'm sure i'm not the only one in this case,

and i think while few people are truly metalhead satanists/atheists for a good reason other than "religion is lame", there are even FEWER people who actually stay true to the doctrine of a organized religion, only then would they be entitled to act holier than thou. i mean i got such huge shit from people who claim to be true christians etc. while they openly break the rules it implies....

was gonna continue this post, but it's turning too much into an offtopic "i try not to hate most christians but find it near impossible not to hate them for the hipocrisy and their superior attitude saying things like 'come on man, don't be ridiculous.. there has to be a god!'" rant

Written by Bas on 17.07.2008 at 20:40

let me correct; history has proven that it almost never works out when the government is ruled by a single person or a single institution

in other words, you're absolutely right
however; the same is true if a single dictator makes the decisions or any specific group for that matter

only by having different people/institutions making decisions can you guarantee that many different groups of the population have their needs and wants put forward
(and if that only happens for a certain part/group of the population... well it usually doesn't end peacefully)

I think we're on the same page here. I guess I was using religion as an example since that is what this thread is loosely about. But what you say it true. Once again it is just in our nature as a species.

Written by Valentin B on 17.07.2008 at 20:43

was gonna continue this post, but it's turning too much into an offtopic "i try not to hate most christians but find it near impossible not to hate them for the hipocrisy and their superior attitude saying things like 'come on man, don't be ridiculous.. there has to be a god!'" rant

dont worry i'm not going to greatly argue against you

what i think is that the two of us just live in a completely different part of the world where the importance of religion is concerned

i believe that if it is like you say you have more than enough reasons to have your personal problem with religion, my rants are mainly directed at the local metalhead who might get the crap of having to explain to his or her parents why they dont want to believe in god and maybe their teachers and who get stupid looks from small kids but not more than that and who seriously do hate religion without any real reason.

the type that just always has to tell everyone who much god sucks and everyone who believes in him is a retard and 'christianity is the biggest single source of murder in history' and all that crap because their favourite band sings it

and over here almost every single one of the younger and also quite a few of the older metalheads are like that


on a sidenote, isnt it one of the main principles of christianity to accept everyone? meaning that a really true christian should never try to convert someone?

Written by Bas on 17.07.2008 at 21:03

Written by Valentin B on 17.07.2008 at 20:43

was gonna continue this post, but it's turning too much into an offtopic "i try not to hate most christians but find it near impossible not to hate them for the hipocrisy and their superior attitude saying things like 'come on man, don't be ridiculous.. there has to be a god!'" rant

dont worry i'm not going to greatly argue against you

what i think is that the two of us just live in a completely different part of the world where the importance of religion is concerned

i believe that if it is like you say you have more than enough reasons to have your personal problem with religion, my rants are mainly directed at the local metalhead who might get the crap of having to explain to his or her parents why they dont want to believe in god and maybe their teachers and who get stupid looks from small kids but not more than that and who seriously do hate religion without any real reason.

the type that just always has to tell everyone who much god sucks and everyone who believes in him is a retard and 'christianity is the biggest single source of murder in history' and all that crap because their favourite band sings it

and over here almost every single one of the younger and also quite a few of the older metalheads are like that


on a sidenote, isnt it one of the main principles of christianity to accept everyone? meaning that a really true christian should never try to convert someone?

well, i'm sure there are people like that everywhere, especially here, though i've never encountered such people personally, at least not THAT anti-religious.

well, about the christianity acceptance thing, yes it is a principle, "Love your fellow man as you love yourself", but it's contradicted by the general idea of "If you're not with me, you're against me"(which isn't only applied by some preachers of islam or christianity, but it's a false idea that some people use even in their daily lives), a very lame and ancient concept in the world we live in, you can see it in most anti-homo marches..

Written by Valentin B on 17.07.2008 at 21:17

well, i'm sure there are people like that everywhere, especially here, though i've never encountered such people personally, at least not THAT anti-religious.

believe me it's seriously like a trend here among the metalheads
also among many non-metalheads

in my eyes the thing that's missing is just respect; we should have respect for people's religions, they should have respect for our not being religious

it sounds so simple, but oh well...

Written by Bas on 17.07.2008 at 21:28

in my eyes the thing that's missing is just respect; we should have respect for people's religions, they should have respect for our not being religious

it sounds so simple, but oh well...

Yeah, oh well. Because it's unrealistic: every ideology seeks to dominate the world, because otherwise it doesn't get to see itself in action and refine itself.

War is the answer...

Pissing off Christians has usually been a sign that metal is doing something right; fuck off apologists who would castrate metal to appease them.

Written by Bas on 17.07.2008 at 21:28
in my eyes the thing that's missing is just respect; we should have respect for people's religions, they should have respect for our not being religious

Fuck that. Where would metal be without disrespect for religion? It'd be shitty inoffensive rock music for the masses with little to no reason for existence. Better to have irrational hatred of religion than irrational religious devotion. Because someone with the former is at least on the right track and might one day form rational justification for their emotions (not that that would really be necessary), but there is no rational religious devotion for the latter to strive for.

Written by Bas on 17.07.2008 at 18:03
think this way, how many people are happier because of their faith? if what they believe is true or not doesn't matter at all, just the fact that they can hold on to it and that doing so makes them happier is enough to make religion something good

Take your example, then replace religion with alcohol or prescription drug addiction or serial murder or public masturbation; sure these things make people happy but we should probably take societal health into account at some point.

Written by Conservationist on 17.07.2008 at 22:25

every ideology seeks to dominate the world, because otherwise it doesn't get to see itself in action and refine itself.

that's a good way to put it
very nice thought, i like that
(the philosophical aspect and the way you put it that is)




i'm not going to answer to totaliteraliters' post, his arguments are too stupid

Written by Warman on 08.05.2007 at 16:52

I'll quote Alice Cooper from "Metal - A Headbanger's Journey":
The satanism you see in Metal is not satanism, it's some kind of... caricature of satanism. If you're looking for satanism, first of all do not look after it in rock n' roll. A bunch of kids running around, playing guitars loud and do the devil sign... that's Halloween.

I'm not saying that Metal has nothing to do with satanism, but surely you shouldn't blame all the bands for being "Satan's music", that's just naive.

I couldn't agree more with Alice... and with you of course.

I jsut don't know... take me for example. I do believe in God but I really don't take satanic lyrics too seriously because I don't believe in God and Satan to be some kind of powers that rules the world... Naaa, far from that but that just me.

The thing is... That Rock and Metal doesn't attack the religious people... They just want to have fun and play!!!

Written by Bas on 17.07.2008 at 23:12
i'm not going to answer to totaliteraliters' post, his arguments are too stupid

Hey, that didn't stop me from replying to you. Tolerant of Christianity and avoiding argument? Metal is not the genre for you.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 17.07.2008 at 23:20

Written by Warman on 08.05.2007 at 16:52

I'll quote Alice Cooper from "Metal - A Headbanger's Journey":
The satanism you see in Metal is not satanism, it's some kind of... caricature of satanism. If you're looking for satanism, first of all do not look after it in rock n' roll. A bunch of kids running around, playing guitars loud and do the devil sign... that's Halloween.

I'm not saying that Metal has nothing to do with satanism, but surely you shouldn't blame all the bands for being "Satan's music", that's just naive.

I couldn't agree more with Alice... and with you of course.

I jsut don't know... take me for example. I do believe in God but I really don't take satanic lyrics too seriously because I don't believe in God and Satan to be some kind of powers that rules the world... Naaa, far from that but that just me.

Congratulations on joining Mr. Cooper on having the concept of satanism in metal fly right over your head. Mr. Cooper has been proven clueless when it comes to the modern state of metal on enough occasions to make him useless as anything as a source for humorously ignorant remarks, and you look like you need to learn what a "metaphor" is.

Written by totaliteraliter on 18.07.2008 at 00:38

Hey, that didn't stop me from replying to you. Tolerant of Christianity and avoiding argument? Metal is not the genre for you.

So are you saying one cannot be tolerant or Christianity, or even a Christian for that matter, and be a Metalhead?

Written by totaliteraliter on 18.07.2008 at 00:38

Congratulations on joining Mr. Cooper on having the concept of satanism in metal fly right over your head. Mr. Cooper has been proven clueless when it comes to the modern state of metal on enough occasions to make him useless as anything as a source for humorously ignorant remarks, and you look like you need to learn what a "metaphor" is.

I don't think your the right person [nobody is the right person anyway] to say what I believe is true or not.
I also don't need some kind of education of what Metaphor is.

religion and music?

there are religous themes throughout all music if you are willing to look hard enough into the lyrics. But at the end of the day music is about self expression and appreciation. To argue about religion or any other aspect of that music is to disrespect the reasons for that person to listen to it.

I must also add that if you are to read into a particular piece of music as to influence ones religious beliefs or not is somewhat ignorant, for you to be labeled religous or not from listening to a piece of music would be considered extreme misjudgment

Written by necrovamp on 05.04.2007 at 23:45

I found this website the other day, (ttp://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/devils_music.htm)
it angered me. I thought it a load of bollocks. I know a Mormon, thats one of the strictest christian religions i know of, who listens to black sabbath etc, and anyone who likes metal should know that the 'devil horns' isn't the sign of the devil, its a sign witch can give evil or take evil away, you dont see satanists standing round a fire doing that do you!

Here's a couple other items that say the same thing:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0034/0034_01.asp

http://www.thetruthforyouth.com/images/comics/rockmusic/rockmusic.html

Written by necrovamp on 05.04.2007 at 23:45

Im also fed up of chritians standing outside of gigs going on and on about how going to see 'such and such a band' will send you till hell, I don't see a satanist doing that to christians.

I know what you mean. When Ozzy came here in February 1983, one fundie church started a petition to try to keep him from coming. They had a table up at the local shopping mall here one night, and I went up to it dressed real conservative, like I was gonna sign it. Little did they suspect however, that I had a trick pen- one that squirted ink. I got ink all over the front page and thru several pages- you should've seen the expression on that preacher's face- HE WAS PISSED!!. A friend of mine wrote a letter to the local paper defending Ozzy's right to perform, and the church sent a couple people to his house to talk to him. His dad, a fundie, made him listen to their drivel, which included them calling him "a warlock". The night of the concert, there were people outside protesting, one was carrying a big cross, saying "I gave up rock music for the rock of ages", and another was passing out fliers, saying "I have something here that doesn't cost $13.50", to which my friend replied "I sure hope that scrap of paper doesn't cost that much".

Written by animal on 18.07.2008 at 14:27

Written by necrovamp on 05.04.2007 at 23:45

I found this website the other day, (ttp://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/devils_music.htm)
it angered me. I thought it a load of bollocks. I know a Mormon, thats one of the strictest christian religions i know of, who listens to black sabbath etc, and anyone who likes metal should know that the 'devil horns' isn't the sign of the devil, its a sign witch can give evil or take evil away, you dont see satanists standing round a fire doing that do you!

Here's a couple other items that say the same thing:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0034/0034_01.asp

http://www.thetruthforyouth.com/images/comics/rockmusic/rockmusic.html

Written by necrovamp on 05.04.2007 at 23:45

Im also fed up of chritians standing outside of gigs going on and on about how going to see 'such and such a band' will send you till hell, I don't see a satanist doing that to christians.

I know what you mean. When Ozzy came here in February 1983, one fundie church started a petition to try to keep him from coming. They had a table up at the local shopping mall here one night, and I went up to it dressed real conservative, like I was gonna sign it. Little did they suspect however, that I had a trick pen- one that squirted ink. I got ink all over the front page and thru several pages- you should've seen the expression on that preacher's face- HE WAS PISSED!!. A friend of mine wrote a letter to the local paper defending Ozzy's right to perform, and the church sent a couple people to his house to talk to him. His dad, a fundie, made him listen to their drivel, which included them calling him "a warlock". The night of the concert, there were people outside protesting, one was carrying a big cross, saying "I gave up rock music for the rock of ages", and another was passing out fliers, saying "I have something here that doesn't cost $13.50", to which my friend replied "I sure hope that scrap of paper doesn't cost that much".

those 2 comics were pretty funny lol, unintentionally i hope... i mean wtf? and that shit about the petition was funny as shit! i bet you've never got an angrier look by anyone since!

Written by totaliteraliter on 18.07.2008 at 00:38

Hey, that didn't stop me from replying to you. Tolerant of Christianity and avoiding argument? Metal is not the genre for you.

this only proves my point that you're not worth discussing with

anyone who knows me also knows that i love nothing more than a good argument, but you can't give me that. first of all there's no use in having a discussion with someone who won't really listen to your arguments anyway, and i don't believe you are openminded enough to do so even one tiny bit, secondly your own arguments are so horrendously bad that i can't have a good discussion with you either, then i'd at least have my fun out of it because i do really enjoy it when someone has really good counterarguments to my own

and guess what; i like metal music, i enjoy listening to it
anyone who believes you need more than that to be able to be a fan of a certain type of music is a downright moron

you can take my word on this, i and also Dane Train for that matter who answered to you as well and who is not only tolerant towards christianity but a devote christian himself know quite a deal more about metal than you do

Written by Bas on 17.07.2008 at 18:03

think this way, how many people are happier because of their faith?

Why do you take it on faith that "happier" = "better"?

Written by Conservationist on 18.07.2008 at 15:53

Written by Bas on 17.07.2008 at 18:03

think this way, how many people are happier because of their faith?

Why do you take it on faith that "happier" = "better"?

well i believe that - from the point of view that god doesn't exist - that believing in god and finding strength in that belief and being happy because of it is better than "knowing" god doesn't exist and being a bitter unhappy person because you have nothing to hold on to in life

of course very many of the people who don't believe in god have other things to derive strength from in life; be it love, their hobbies, sports, even tv or their work for all i care

but let's narrow it down

two old women who don't have anything left in life that really brings them joy, except one of the two is religious and her faith is what holds her on the ground and what helps her to stay a cheerful person because she has something to believe in, someone who has just as little that brings cheer to her life but isn't religious won't have this source of relief that the religious person has and is more likely to live a bitter life

that's the way i see it, just my opinion

but what i mainly think is that disbelieving in god and oppenly criticising people that believe in him doesn't bring happiness to as much people as believing in god does

Written by Bas on 18.07.2008 at 16:03

but what i mainly think is that disbelieving in god and oppenly criticising people that believe in him doesn't bring happiness to as much people as believing in god does

Yes, but again, why do you believe happiness is more important?

Written by Dane Train on 18.07.2008 at 02:11

Written by totaliteraliter on 18.07.2008 at 00:38

Hey, that didn't stop me from replying to you. Tolerant of Christianity and avoiding argument? Metal is not the genre for you.

So are you saying one cannot be tolerant or Christianity, or even a Christian for that matter, and be a Metalhead?

Depends what we mean by metalhead; in the sense of "metal sounds good and makes me happy and I like to listen to it" then sure, anyone can be a metalhead. But in terms of less superficial understanding of and identification and solidarity with the art, then certain conflicts arise.

Written by X-Ray Rod on 18.07.2008 at 02:54
I don't think your the right person [nobody is the right person anyway] to say what I believe is true or not.
I also don't need some kind of education of what Metaphor is.

Then why do you say:

Written by X-Ray Rod on 17.07.2008 at 23:20
I really don't take satanic lyrics too seriously because I don't believe in God and Satan to be some kind of powers that rules the world... Naaa, far from that but that just me.

...unless you think satanic lyrics are entirely or overwhelmingly literal rather than metaphorical?

Written by Bas on 18.07.2008 at 15:03
this only proves my point that you're not worth discussing with

anyone who knows me also knows that i love nothing more than a good argument, but you can't give me that. first of all there's no use in having a discussion with someone who won't really listen to your arguments anyway, and i don't believe you are openminded enough to do so even one tiny bit, secondly your own arguments are so horrendously bad that i can't have a good discussion with you either, then i'd at least have my fun out of it because i do really enjoy it when someone has really good counterarguments to my own

Well I don't know what more I can do, I point out that your view promotes personal pleasure at the potential cost of societal health and you stick your head in the sand.

Written by Bas on 18.07.2008 at 15:03
and guess what; i like metal music, i enjoy listening to it
anyone who believes you need more than that to be able to be a fan of a certain type of music is a downright moron

you can take my word on this, i and also Dane Train for that matter who answered to you as well and who is not only tolerant towards christianity but a devote christian himself know quite a deal more about metal than you do

There is not are not enough "lol" smilies in the world to properly express my reaction to that. And please review my position more carefully before repeating the above strawman.

Written by Conservationist on 18.07.2008 at 17:06

Written by Bas on 18.07.2008 at 16:03

but what i mainly think is that disbelieving in god and oppenly criticising people that believe in him doesn't bring happiness to as much people as believing in god does

Yes, but again, why do you believe happiness is more important?

well my point of view on life is this

we're all just born without ever being asked if we want to be born and somewhen we'll die, we can't change either of those two things

the only important question is what you do with the time inbetween

the way i see it is that there isn't really a higher purpose in our lives, we can either live happily or live unhappily and my pick is definitely to live life in a happy way.
does that answer the question?