Written by Guest on 09.05.2007 at 01:50

I'll have to wait for the municipal elections, in Bordeaux, and make sure Juppé is not a mayor anymore.

And I hope you'll be voting for the PS .

I think so, though I don't really agree with all their ideas and what they did when thay were at the government. But on my quarter, it's always the same right wing guy who's elected, and I think it will be the same this time. Same as Juppé in Bordeaux in fact, he's been the mayor from years.

Written by Sekhmet on 08.05.2007 at 23:40

I'm really disappointed by these results, but I don't feel like arguing now because I'm also very tired... Anyway this weekend sucked, I really can't understand why some people have voted against their own welfare and freedom Although don't believe I'm a narrow-minded person; I also think that some of Royal's ideas were wrong and didn't fully agree with her, but I still feel closer to her ideas than to Sarkozy's ones... Just feeling sad for my country...

Btw, being a metalhead has nothing to do with political orientation... That's among the stupidest thing I've ever read (although I've already heard a lot of bullshit this weekend... that's okay I'm getting used to it... or at least I'll have to )

It's really interesting to have your point of view guys! to see a more global opinion than the tiny French-focused one. and maybe you can tell us what you'll be expecting from France now.

"Why some people have voted against their own welfare and freedom"
Each program of this two candidates have they hight and low points. But say that french people will loose their welfare and freedom is innapropriate and completely exaggerated.



For all others who haven't their "good" president:

Certainly all the ideas of the program of our new president are not ideal, but he's not a dictator for all that.
Because openly direct a campaign of second round on everything except Sarko, speak to me about a program I find that a little bit minimalist. We will not loose us welfare, live in a nationalist state.
I understand you were disapointed by the result, but it's democracy.

Written by LeDruide on 10.05.2007 at 00:25


I think so, though I don't really agree with all their ideas and what they did when thay were at the government. But on my quarter, it's always the same right wing guy who's elected, and I think it will be the same this time. Same as Juppé in Bordeaux in fact, he's been the mayor from years.

I know Delanoe is likely to be elected again. And think it's going to be the same for Juppé. But, as long as I have the chance to say what I think, I won't vote for that one. In my opinion he shouldn't even be able to be elected again. Bribable.

Written by Guest on 10.05.2007 at 01:27

Written by LeDruide on 10.05.2007 at 00:25


I think so, though I don't really agree with all their ideas and what they did when thay were at the government. But on my quarter, it's always the same right wing guy who's elected, and I think it will be the same this time. Same as Juppé in Bordeaux in fact, he's been the mayor from years.

I know Delanoe is likely to be elected again. And think it's going to be the same for Juppé. But, as long as I have the chance to say what I think, I won't vote for that one. In my opinion he shouldn't even be able to be elected again. Bribable.

Hej,
It's possible Juppé is minister again, so it may be someone else. Anyway seems people there liked the way he ruled the town so they will prolly vote for the same team anyway.
There are a lot of towns nyway who vote for the socialists at the national election, but have an UMP mayor for years. Same the other way round.

@WWS: I know it's a bit exagerated, I wasn't speaking about the whole French population loosing their rights, just quite surprised at some people from low or middle classes who voted for a liberal program. You have to admit it goes against their own benefits, that's common sense! Anyway I agree with you about the "each program had its own good and bad points", that's what I said too.

Written by Sekhmet on 10.05.2007 at 19:55

@WWS: I know it's a bit exagerated, I wasn't speaking about the whole French population loosing their rights, just quite surprised at some people from low or middle classes who voted for a liberal program. You have to admit it goes against their own benefits, that's common sense! Anyway I agree with you about the "each program had its own good and bad points", that's what I said too.

Hej,
Liberals say themselves sarkozy's program wasn't that much liberal, though supported him because it was more liberal than others anyway.
And anyway I can't see how liberalism goes against middle classes and lower.

Simple as that: economic liberalism isn't really known for its support of redistribution of wealth, greater economic equality, and planned economies in general... That's what makes this theory rather unfavourable to lower classes.

Written by yvesson on 10.05.2007 at 20:23

And anyway I can't see how liberalism goes against middle classes and lower.

Firing people for increasing shareholders dividend, while ex-boss leaves with millions of euros, and reducing welfare's help, may be a begining of an answer. Btw, the number of "poor workers" is increasing, this because of low wages, no law existing for a minimum wage.
oh, and if liberalism was a good thing, more than 53% would have vote for Sarkozy.

@Sekhmet
"just quite surprised at some people from low or middle classes who voted for a liberal program. You have to admit it goes against their own benefits, that's common sense"

I'm not too affirmative with this. Liberalism is not synonym of abuse and didn't go automatically against middle classes and lower as said yvesson.
Because I think ,and it's just my opinion, Sarkozy's program was better than socialist program on this point. Because the share of work's time wasn't applied in any country. And increase Smic it's not a good solution too. It's devellop assistance.

Hej,
Well there could be a lot to say about liberalism but I will just stay simple.
What created the "poor workers" in france ? Certainly not the lack of a minimum wage... nor liberalism.

About dividends : if I invested money in a company, shouldn't I get reward for that ? Of course I should. It's never made companies fire people... You get dividends only from companies which go well financially, so you get a reward because you helped it expanding... Companies which arn't successfull don't deal dividends, and will also prolly make you loose the money you invested, and fire people maybe. So just wish that the companies earn money.

Sure, companies are made to make profit, and shareholders want a reward. Ok. But, the biggest ones want more and more, and did you notice that companies firing workers increase the value of their shares? And you know why? Because less wages to pay means more profit, and more dividends. Then, even companies who make profit fire hundreds of people. And about shareholders, of course I'm not talking about the ones who have only some shares, I'm talking about the ones who have lots of.
About liberalism, to make short, it's about the state having no power and no control, which means companies make "what they want", without problem. This can leads to abuse, even if liberalism is not a synonym of abuse (though some will say it is). Sarkozy's ideas can be good for newcoming companies, with few employees, but no control is not a good thing.
And some last words about "poor workers" : imo people working should earn enough to have a decent life - which means a roof and being able to eat everyday (in fact, everybody should, but it's another problem). And well, a minimum wage could be a solution.

Hej,
Dude, paying less employee means less production, thus less money earned. If they earn more money having fired employees, then they didn't need them. Sometimes it just happens. It's not a choice, most companies want to expand.
Poor workers is not only a matter of the money earned, it's the balance between the money earned and the money spend that makes the thing. I don't wanna earn more if the prices go up as much or more.

And tell me anyway where you read about anyone planning to get rid of the minimum wage ? Nor Sarkozy nor the french liberals said that.

Where did I read it? Nowhere. And I didn't say such a thing. I just said people should be able to live decently from their job.
About firing employees, those employees are forced to increase productivity, and they also delocate to China or so. Companies want to expand economically, not necessary by hiring people. Anyway, lots of people are fired in companies making profit, there should be a reason, don't you think?
If you can, have a look at 'Roger and I' by Michael Moore, showing leaders of General Motors having a party when in the same time families are putting outside thieir houses in the winter cause the GM factory in town had been closed.

Hej,
Well I watched half "bowling for Colombine" and that was too much propaganda for me already. So no more by him thanks.

Of course the companies delocate to china ! The costs are lower ! It also opens them to new customers.

How can you expand "economically" without hiring people by the way ?

"Anyway, lots of people are fired in companies making profit, there should be a reason"
Yeah, just imagine : Company Y got 2 factories A and B. A makes profits, B doesn't. Company Y closes factory B and keeps the same profits. It can also fire some employees in factory B and re-organize it so it makes profits in the end.

I don't care who won that dammed elections . If the new president can save France from total collapse , he is worth of such high rank .