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Church Arsons and the Ideology of Black Metal



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Original post

Posted by Bitter Dawn, 07.06.2007 - 05:38
Today being June 6, 2007 marks the anniversary date of the Fantoft Church that was burnt down in 1992, of course by Varg Vikernes, and has been fifteen years since his actions.

I doubt there will be any arson's in honour or vain of that memoriable day that help set the flame within black metal, and I am surprised that nothing happen last year since it was a more appropriate version of 06-06-06. Yet, last Febuary on Vargs birthday someone in Ontario, Canada set fire to a church in his honour, of which I was very surprised.

I am not advocating people and go out today and burn down a church, but it has been such a big focal point of black metal that I thought it was worth mentioning today.
12.09.2007 - 03:11
Dane Train
Beers & Kilts
Written by Damnated on 11.09.2007 at 14:19

i always considered these church arsons to be of a symbolic nature. burning down a church is a symbol of resisistng and fighting the disease that is christianity.


First, show some respect. You may disagree with aspects of Christianity, but calling it a disease is just immature and rude.

Second, would it be alright for me to burn down your home because I don't like what you stand for?
----
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12.09.2007 - 04:53
Winter Death
Account deleted
I hope I don't push anyone's buttons the wrong way, but it appears that these church arsons were an act of terrorism. OMGS don't hit me in the face with a shovel! If you think about it though, an ideology is being promoted through the use of violence in a premeditated act. I'm not going to debate the morality of it one way or another, it just struck me that this is what happened. Maybe that changes someone's opinion?
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12.09.2007 - 07:22
BF

@Winter Death I agree with what you said completely. By examining the definition of a terrorist act is clearly seen that what happened was an act of terrorism. I personally do not agree with terrorist methods of persuasion, but I do not agree with what religion (any religion) has come to stand for these days. It would seem that even though the fundamentals of religion are supposed to be "treat everyone with respect" or "do the right thing" whatever that may be, more and more it appears that religion is becoming hypocrits. Often religous leaders insult other peoples beliefs and a number of wars have arisen based on religous reasons. I'm sure most of us know what ethnic cleansing means.

I avidly discuss "religion" at home/with friends etc and it is my point of view that there should be no religion at all, simply because of the trouble it is causing and the trouble it will cause in the future (I feel the problem is worsening). However this does not mean that I support church burnings or any other offensive actions towards any religion.

I feel that the church burnings were ultimately a wasted act. Varg V. would have got better mileage if he had done door-to-door discussions. By burning a church you are only re-inforcing the "faith" of those that follow the said religion, encouraging people to condemn you and your own beliefs. If Varg had talked to people in an intelligent manner he would have probably got alot further and not been labelled a lunatic.
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12.09.2007 - 12:37
Damnated
Churchburner
Written by Dane Train on 12.09.2007 at 03:11

Written by Damnated on 11.09.2007 at 14:19

i always considered these church arsons to be of a symbolic nature. burning down a church is a symbol of resisistng and fighting the disease that is christianity.

First, show some respect. You may disagree with aspects of Christianity, but calling it a disease is just immature and rude.
Second, would it be alright for me to burn down your home because I don't like what you stand for?


why is it immature? because you don't agree with me? yes, i think christianity is a desease. it has spread from a tiny core and infected almost the entire world. and if you think that burning my house makes a difference to you and to other people, then burn it.

Written by Guest on 12.09.2007 at 04:53

I hope I don't push anyone's buttons the wrong way, but it appears that these church arsons were an act of terrorism. If you think about it though, an ideology is being promoted through the use of violence in a premeditated act.


no, this is not terrorism. spreading an ideology through violence is what religion is all about. so this can be considered a religious act, in a very ironic way.
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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12.09.2007 - 13:28
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
And ppl say football hooligans are bad and dangerous, thay fight whit cops and destroy stadion, but burn church? what are worst, gate 7 never will do such stupid thinks
----
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13.09.2007 - 01:59
BitterCOld
The Ancient One
meh. not worth posting as the point will be wasted.
----
get the fuck off my lawn.

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13.09.2007 - 02:46
Dane Train
Beers & Kilts
Written by Damnated on 12.09.2007 at 12:37

why is it immature? because you don't agree with me? yes, i think christianity is a desease. it has spread from a tiny core and infected almost the entire world. and if you think that burning my house makes a difference to you and to other people, then burn it.


No I am perfectly fine if you disagree with my faith, religion and spirituality. That is not the immature part, it is how you handle your words and context.

Nor do I think burning your house would make much of a difference. Same with burning a church bulding. A church is actually not a building, but a fellowship of followers of Jesus Christ, the Body. When people refer to a 'church' they are ussually talking about the building in which people meet in.

The vast majority of Christians in the world don't even meet in a 'church' building. Here in America, I have been to numerous worship services in houses, garages, vans, theaters, baseball parks, bars, bowling allies, mountian tops, Goth clubs, etc.

You can burn down a church building, but the Love and Fellowship of Jesus Christ will still remain.
----
(space for rent)
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13.09.2007 - 05:13
BF

Written by Damnated on 12.09.2007 at 12:37

Written by Dane Train on 12.09.2007 at 03:11

Written by Damnated on 11.09.2007 at 14:19

i always considered these church arsons to be of a symbolic nature. burning down a church is a symbol of resisistng and fighting the disease that is christianity.

First, show some respect. You may disagree with aspects of Christianity, but calling it a disease is just immature and rude.
Second, would it be alright for me to burn down your home because I don't like what you stand for?


why is it immature? because you don't agree with me? yes, i think christianity is a desease. it has spread from a tiny core and infected almost the entire world. and if you think that burning my house makes a difference to you and to other people, then burn it.

Written by Guest on 12.09.2007 at 04:53

I hope I don't push anyone's buttons the wrong way, but it appears that these church arsons were an act of terrorism. If you think about it though, an ideology is being promoted through the use of violence in a premeditated act.


no, this is not terrorism. spreading an ideology through violence is what religion is all about. so this can be considered a religious act, in a very ironic way.


religion has nothing to do with spreading an ideology through violence, and in many cases it doesnt even premote spreading an ideology at all. Terrorism is by definition using fear to gain a reaction from the population that is favourable to your cause. So from this definition we can apply it to the situation being discussed, as so:

FEAR = scaring people into thinking that another arson may take place, possibly with people inside the next time.
POPULATION REACTION = people will be less likely to attend church because of the fear they harbour that they may be burn't alive.

And if you notice, when a religous sect uses violence to impose an ideology, they instantly get labelled as terrorists.
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13.09.2007 - 05:16
BF

@Damnated CHECKMATE
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13.09.2007 - 05:33
Winter Death
Account deleted
Quote:
Written by Guest on 12.09.2007 at 04:53

I hope I don't push anyone's buttons the wrong way, but it appears that these church arsons were an act of terrorism. If you think about it though, an ideology is being promoted through the use of violence in a premeditated act.


no, this is not terrorism. spreading an ideology through violence is what religion is all about. so this can be considered a religious act, in a very ironic way.


Spreading religion through violence can be considered terrorism as well. After all, terrorism has been around for a long ass time. However, this does not change the fact that these church burnings were a terrorist act. It is the exact same thing. I suppose I'm just reinforcing BF's point.
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13.09.2007 - 10:44
Damnated
Churchburner
Written by Dane Train on 13.09.2007 at 02:46

You can burn down a church building, but the Love and Fellowship of Jesus Christ will still remain.

i perfectly agree with this. that is why i said that i consider these church arsons symbols, because they had no real purpose. it didn't stop the religion or people believing. infact, it may have done the opposite.
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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13.09.2007 - 10:50
Damnated
Churchburner
Written by BF on 13.09.2007 at 05:13

And if you notice, when a religous sect uses violence to impose an ideology, they instantly get labelled as terrorists.


apparently you didn't get my point. when i said "spreading an ideology through violence" i ment Chrsianity, Islam, Judaism. not some sects. if you don't know how these two religions, judaism not necesairly, became so popular, how many lives were taken and blood has flown, then consult a history book.

also, today, spreading an ideology through violence and fear is democracy. just look at the "anti-terrorist" war of the US.
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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13.09.2007 - 10:58
Xtreme Jax
Psycroptipath
Written by Damnated on 13.09.2007 at 10:50

also, today, spreading an ideology through violence and fear is democracy. just look at the "anti-terrorist" war of the US.

Haha, too bloody right. BAM!!
----

Hellcunt Smurf
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13.09.2007 - 11:27
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by Damnated on 13.09.2007 at 10:44

Written by Dane Train on 13.09.2007 at 02:46

You can burn down a church building, but the Love and Fellowship of Jesus Christ will still remain.

i perfectly agree with this. that is why i said that i consider these church arsons symbols, because they had no real purpose. it didn't stop the religion or people believing. infact, it may have done the opposite.


Thats the true only church ha sburned and early medieval churches are vounderfull, its art of architecture and modern churches isnt so good like old, no such emeotional feelings

I sugest burn gay clubs not churches
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
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13.09.2007 - 11:40
Xtreme Jax
Psycroptipath
Written by Bad English on 13.09.2007 at 11:27

I sugest burn gay clubs not churches

Thats extreme discrimination to the gay community. Thats as bad as you saying that people shouldnt burn churches.
----

Hellcunt Smurf
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13.09.2007 - 11:59
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by Xtreme Jax on 13.09.2007 at 11:40

Written by Bad English on 13.09.2007 at 11:27

I sugest burn gay clubs not churches

Thats extreme discrimination to the gay community. Thats as bad as you saying that people shouldnt burn churches.


Its same its discrimination of Cristian comunity, but seems you still dont get what I mean by gay club ask Iaberis about gay13
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13.09.2007 - 12:47
GT
Coffee!!
Written by Damnated on 13.09.2007 at 10:50

Written by BF on 13.09.2007 at 05:13

And if you notice, when a religous sect uses violence to impose an ideology, they instantly get labelled as terrorists.


apparently you didn't get my point. when i said "spreading an ideology through violence" i ment Chrsianity, Islam, Judaism. not some sects. if you don't know how these two religions, judaism not necesairly, became so popular, how many lives were taken and blood has flown, then consult a history book.

also, today, spreading an ideology through violence and fear is democracy. just look at the "anti-terrorist" war of the US.

Amen to that
----


Dreams are made so we don't get bored when we sleep
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13.09.2007 - 13:32
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by GT on 13.09.2007 at 12:47

Written by Damnated on 13.09.2007 at 10:50

Written by BF on 13.09.2007 at 05:13

And if you notice, when a religous sect uses violence to impose an ideology, they instantly get labelled as terrorists.


apparently you didn't get my point. when i said "spreading an ideology through violence" i ment Chrsianity, Islam, Judaism. not some sects. if you don't know how these two religions, judaism not necesairly, became so popular, how many lives were taken and blood has flown, then consult a history book.

also, today, spreading an ideology through violence and fear is democracy. just look at the "anti-terrorist" war of the US.

Amen to that


Show violance means you're afraid of thinks but about USA well I hear thay start planing attack to Iran
----
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Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
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13.09.2007 - 15:08
LivingCorpse
Account deleted
Quote:
Written by Guest on 13.09.2007 at 05:33

Written by Guest on 12.09.2007 at 04:53

I hope I don't push anyone's buttons the wrong way, but it appears that these church arsons were an act of terrorism. If you think about it though, an ideology is being promoted through the use of violence in a premeditated act.


no, this is not terrorism. spreading an ideology through violence is what religion is all about. so this can be considered a religious act, in a very ironic way.


Spreading religion through violence can be considered terrorism as well. After all, terrorism has been around for a long ass time. However, this does not change the fact that these church burnings were a terrorist act. It is the exact same thing. I suppose I'm just reinforcing BF's point.


That's exactly why I would be happier, if any religions weren't made. Every religion is a disease. Now, try to understand me: for one person it would be saviour and important thing, and I agree with that, but there will be always people, who use their power in the church with worng ways, and people, who make money with religion. Though, there are many wars because of religions, killing in the name of God. If I understood correctly Amorphis' Lost Name of God lyrics.

Black Metalists vision was distorted: they forgot all other terrible events of the history of Earth, and coiled these terrible deaths on a burning pile in their minds, and thinked, that their duty was to cleanse Norway out of Christianity violently as it has been brought to Norway. Though, they tried to be acceptable in the Inner Circle of Black Metal, in some medias called as ''Satanic Circle''. Their vision of clean Norway will ever be true with church burnings and grave desecrations. If we think that we should cleanse this world out of religions, we should accept the fact that it's impossible without causing even bigger chaos.
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13.09.2007 - 15:34
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Ok but does nirvegian ppl are good? I say no how many inocente wolfs and eales thay kill whit out reason, to many and its primitiv and violant ways, damn eat souvaki not wales and then thay destroy churches its moust prmitiv country in civilased world, damn i kno its sounds brutal, but its a fact!
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''
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13.09.2007 - 16:20
LivingCorpse
Account deleted
Written by Bad English on 13.09.2007 at 15:34

Ok but does nirvegian ppl are good? I say no how many inocente wolfs and eales thay kill whit out reason, to many and its primitiv and violant ways, damn eat souvaki not wales and then thay destroy churches its moust prmitiv country in civilased world, damn i kno its sounds brutal, but its a fact!

Did you get my point? I know that fact, that's why I said, that it is not clever to burn churches or kill sheeps or something, because it is impossible without causing even bigger chaos. I think, that we should just live our lives the best way we can, or do something, which really helps the affair. Sorry, if I understood you wrong, I don't understand that kind of English, especially when I'm tired.
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13.09.2007 - 16:36
Damnated
Churchburner
Written by Guest on 13.09.2007 at 15:08

That's exactly why I would be happier, if any religions weren't made.

what an utopia that would be

Written by Guest on 13.09.2007 at 15:08

Black Metalists vision was distorted: they forgot all other terrible events of the history of Earth, and coiled these terrible deaths on a burning pile in their minds, and thinked, that their duty was to cleanse Norway out of Christianity violently as it has been brought to Norway. Though, they tried to be acceptable in the Inner Circle of Black Metal, in some medias called as ''Satanic Circle''. Their vision of clean Norway will ever be true with church burnings and grave desecrations. If we think that we should cleanse this world out of religions, we should accept the fact that it's impossible without causing even bigger chaos.


well, this is the interesting thing. they didn't want to wipe out chrisitnity from norway, they just wanted to fight religion. fight it, not destroy it. they weren't stupid. as you said, it would be impossible to destroy a religion which has almost 2 billion followers, and they certenly knew this.

what they wanted to do, was fight religion. i don't know why, but probably because they were sick and tired of it. the plan to burn a christian church came to them, because in norway, at that time, i dunno what's going on today, christianity was the biggest religion.

they also considered attacking a sinagoge or a muslim temple, but they figured, no one would pay atention, or atleast, not enough atention.
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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13.09.2007 - 16:41
Damnated
Churchburner
Written by Bad English on 13.09.2007 at 15:34

Ok but does nirvegian ppl are good? I say no how many inocente wolfs and eales thay kill whit out reason, to many and its primitiv and violant ways, damn eat souvaki not wales and then thay destroy churches its moust prmitiv country in civilased world, damn i kno its sounds brutal, but its a fact!


omg, man, pls don't post things like this here. you not only sound like a child, but what you say is stupid. calling a whole nation primitve because at some extent they kill wolfs, is outrageous. because it's highly unlikely that they slaughter masses of wolfes and whales for absolutely no reason.
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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13.09.2007 - 16:54
LivingCorpse
Account deleted
Written by Damnated on 13.09.2007 at 16:36

Written by Guest on 13.09.2007 at 15:08

That's exactly why I would be happier, if any religions weren't made.

what an utopia that would be

Written by Guest on 13.09.2007 at 15:08

Black Metalists vision was distorted: they forgot all other terrible events of the history of Earth, and coiled these terrible deaths on a burning pile in their minds, and thinked, that their duty was to cleanse Norway out of Christianity violently as it has been brought to Norway. Though, they tried to be acceptable in the Inner Circle of Black Metal, in some medias called as ''Satanic Circle''. Their vision of clean Norway will ever be true with church burnings and grave desecrations. If we think that we should cleanse this world out of religions, we should accept the fact that it's impossible without causing even bigger chaos.


well, this is the interesting thing. they didn't want to wipe out chrisitnity from norway, they just wanted to fight religion. fight it, not destroy it. they weren't stupid. as you said, it would be impossible to destroy a religion which has almost 2 billion followers, and they certenly knew this.

what they wanted to do, was fight religion. i don't know why, but probably because they were sick and tired of it. the plan to burn a christian church came to them, because in norway, at that time, i dunno what's going on today, christianity was the biggest religion.

they also considered attacking a sinagoge or a muslim temple, but they figured, no one would pay atention, or atleast, not enough atention.


In my opinion, fighting against the religion without any kind of clear results but chaos is poor way to defend against the society and its unwritten rules. If we think that way, they were stupid or wanted to get just some attention. If we want to delete the religions out of world, we should go in the beginning of times and history. On the other hand, I understand those church burnings as a symbolic deeds, and I appreciate that symbolism against the society, against the religion. But they should done it other way.
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13.09.2007 - 17:21
Damnated
Churchburner
Written by Guest on 13.09.2007 at 16:54

If we want to delete the religions out of world, we should go in the beginning of times and history. On the other hand, I understand those church burnings as a symbolic deeds, and I appreciate that symbolism against the society, against the religion. But they should done it other way.


i don't think that would be possible, though. not even in theory. i mean there were always people who borned to lead, and others who borned to be lead. so it's innevitable for a religion to appear sooner or later. because religion was created so people can be lead and ordered around in the name of a god.

they didn't made a point, that's true; i don't doubt, that nobody considered turning their back on religion because of this.
but is there such an act? can anyone, by any means, convince a mass of people that what they believe is utter nonsence? no. however, one should always try.
----
Blessed is he that murders Christ in himself and in his fellow men.



Written by TheBigRossowski on 10.02.2009 at 16:01

if my wife and I can't conceive, I want a medical shipment of your sperm so our baby will be just like you.
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13.09.2007 - 18:05
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by Damnated on 13.09.2007 at 16:41

Written by Bad English on 13.09.2007 at 15:34

Ok but does nirvegian ppl are good? I say no how many inocente wolfs and eales thay kill whit out reason, to many and its primitiv and violant ways, damn eat souvaki not wales and then thay destroy churches its moust prmitiv country in civilased world, damn i kno its sounds brutal, but its a fact!


omg, man, pls don't post things like this here. you not only sound like a child, but what you say is stupid. calling a whole nation primitve because at some extent they kill wolfs, is outrageous. because it's highly unlikely that they slaughter masses of wolfes and whales for absolutely no reason.


You see ppl dont like it when I do it, but if Im chilldis how w ecan call those ppl who burn churches ... same
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13.09.2007 - 18:56
Sunioj

I thought about it a few times, and trying to put myself in the shoes of the people that burned those churches and I must say, I wouldn't feel bad at all if the main holy sites in Israel ( especially Jerusalem ) were to be burnt to the ground. So much politics and bloodshed revolved around those sites so I think its useless to call those sites 'Holy'....and plus what good are they doing for people anyway? It just adds to the long cycle of religious and political tension. Its material, it doesn't and shouldn't mean anything. While I said before in this thread that the act of burning down is atrocious, I just can't have any sympathy for what happenned to those churches...exactly, its symbolic.
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14.09.2007 - 02:38
Winter Death
Account deleted
Written by Sunioj on 13.09.2007 at 18:56

I thought about it a few times, and trying to put myself in the shoes of the people that burned those churches and I must say, I wouldn't feel bad at all if the main holy sites in Israel ( especially Jerusalem ) were to be burnt to the ground. So much politics and bloodshed revolved around those sites so I think its useless to call those sites 'Holy'....and plus what good are they doing for people anyway? It just adds to the long cycle of religious and political tension. Its material, it doesn't and shouldn't mean anything. While I said before in this thread that the act of burning down is atrocious, I just can't have any sympathy for what happenned to those churches...exactly, its symbolic.


Maybe you should try to once again place yourself in those other people's shoes, because I think you glossing over what is most important in their lives: their religion. Seeing their own holy sites/churches/whatever burn to the ground causes them to suffer. The more popular retort to this statement would follow: "BUT RELIGION HAS CAUSED THE SUFFERING OF SO MANY BECAUSE IT'S SO REPRESSIVE AND WAS SPREAD THROUGH VIOLENCE LOL!" This statement is true of the history of many religions, but it applies to a minority of individuals today. I would argue that most religious folks are just living their lives and hold their faith dear to them. So it's pretty hard for them to understand why other people would want to cause them harm. I'm not pulling for religion and I'm not pulling for the Black Metal Ideology, I'm just trying to be realistic about this.
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14.09.2007 - 03:19
Sunioj

Written by Guest on 14.09.2007 at 02:38

Maybe you should try to once again place yourself in those other people's shoes, because I think you glossing over what is most important in their lives: their religion. Seeing their own holy sites/churches/whatever burn to the ground causes them to suffer. The more popular retort to this statement would follow: "BUT RELIGION HAS CAUSED THE SUFFERING OF SO MANY BECAUSE IT'S SO REPRESSIVE AND WAS SPREAD THROUGH VIOLENCE LOL!" This statement is true of the history of many religions, but it applies to a minority of individuals today. I would argue that most religious folks are just living their lives and hold their faith dear to them. So it's pretty hard for them to understand why other people would want to cause them harm. I'm not pulling for religion and I'm not pulling for the Black Metal Ideology, I'm just trying to be realistic about this.


I wouldn't wish harm an individual for their beliefs if they are not imposing it. Maybe its relative, but I hate every single sect Ive tried my whole life ( I used to be christian ) wether it be Messianic/Charismatic, Catholic. Lutheran, or Baptist, they all seemed to be consumed by corruption, greed, political bias, homophobia, ignorance and bigotry. And I just can't accept that...and the thing is, how could these ideas not be subjected to society as a norm, if the church or a religious leader is stating it? That is my main problem...

And these churches are being supported by other churches in Scandinavia, Canada, America, etc. which is in turn part of the greater network of christian faith. So I share the belief that its a disease as well...so yeah, relative.
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14.09.2007 - 03:36
Winter Death
Account deleted
Written by Sunioj on 14.09.2007 at 03:19

Written by Guest on 14.09.2007 at 02:38

Maybe you should try to once again place yourself in those other people's shoes, because I think you glossing over what is most important in their lives: their religion. Seeing their own holy sites/churches/whatever burn to the ground causes them to suffer. The more popular retort to this statement would follow: "BUT RELIGION HAS CAUSED THE SUFFERING OF SO MANY BECAUSE IT'S SO REPRESSIVE AND WAS SPREAD THROUGH VIOLENCE LOL!" This statement is true of the history of many religions, but it applies to a minority of individuals today. I would argue that most religious folks are just living their lives and hold their faith dear to them. So it's pretty hard for them to understand why other people would want to cause them harm. I'm not pulling for religion and I'm not pulling for the Black Metal Ideology, I'm just trying to be realistic about this.


I wouldn't wish harm an individual for their beliefs if they are not imposing it. Maybe its relative, but I hate every single sect Ive tried my whole life ( I used to be christian ) wether it be Messianic/Charismatic, Catholic. Lutheran, or Baptist, they all seemed to be consumed by corruption, greed, political bias, homophobia, ignorance and bigotry. And I just can't accept that...and the thing is, how could these ideas not be subjected to society as a norm, if the church or a religious leader is stating it? That is my main problem...

And these churches are being supported by other churches in Scandinavia, Canada, America, etc. which is in turn part of the greater network of christian faith. So I share the belief that its a disease as well...so yeah, relative.


I don't mean to be dismissive, but how does this tie into the Church Arsons? Because you think Christianity is a disease, that make the arsons justified?
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