Havent watched the video, but what i wanted to say is:

Stephen Hawking dedicated his life understanding and explaining how the Big Bang comes from "natural process"...he even claims his research has made God obsolete, because the process of Big Bang is the logical solution of laws of physics...but what exactly prevents me from asking "and why is it so, that this is "natural"? who made such laws?"...it cannot deny the possibility of God's existence somewhere "beyond"

thats why i turned agnostic lately...i wont praise any particular god, because noone can prove me its existence, but also neither can prove the non-existence of any god and therefore being atheist by a reason and not just by different kind of belief...

I consider myself to be spiritual, i dont know what that exactly means, but makes sense to me. I do believe that there are no gods, but there is a greater truth, that is beyond our mind, heart and body, and that dwells deep in you looking at your emotions, thoughts, and sensations.

Athiests are fine, not one myself, but these evangelical New Athiests are the worst, they are some of the most unintelligent and conformist people on the internet, the only difference is they claim they are the opposite. In essense, the problem is these people think they are smart for using physics to "solve" metaphysical questions, proving they don't even know what the question is in the first place, and hold on their own dogma and philosophies and whatnot while claiming they are above dogma and philosophies. They aren't skeptics at all, they are just jumping onto a new trend, parroting the same BS while not forming any original ideas, or even listening to what is being said. The problem isn't even limited to /r/athiesm.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/books/2014/07/atheists_the_origin_of_the_species_by_nick_spencer_reviewed.single.html?utm_content=buffer223a7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Written by deadone on 17.07.2014 at 02:29
...

You might sound like a less eloquent Agent Smith but I definitely agree with your sentiments. It's hard for me to feel like humanity is anything but a virus.

Written by Ganondox on 16.07.2014 at 11:01

Athiests are fine, not one myself, but these evangelical New Athiests are the worst, they are some of the most unintelligent and conformist people on the internet, the only difference is they claim they are the opposite. In essense, the problem is these people think they are smart for using physics to "solve" metaphysical questions, proving they don't even know what the question is in the first place, and hold on their own dogma and philosophies and whatnot while claiming they are above dogma and philosophies. They aren't skeptics at all, they are just jumping onto a new trend, parroting the same BS while not forming any original ideas, or even listening to what is being said. The problem isn't even limited to /r/athiesm.

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/books/2014/07/atheists_the_origin_of_the_species_by_nick_spencer_reviewed.single.html?utm_content=buffer223a7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

You summarized my view pretty well!

I don't know what I am, to be honest, because I'm not sure what questions I should be asking and answering. I don't feel spiritual matters are very close to my heart, nor am I convinced by any religious systems due to their failure to solve the fundamental problems that keep me from religion - how can you know, why should you believe, and what gives God or some cosmic law the authority to decide right and wrong - but neither do I think the alternatives are much better. I do think a religious commitment can be just as rational and sophisticated as an atheist one, and the neo-atheist propaganda to the contrary is why I tend to be sympathetic towards religion.

I am just a wise-ass skeptic who wants to quarrel with and rebel against anything without committing to and defending any base of his own, I guess. Which may be the only way to preserve intellectual integrity, but perhaps not personal integrity.


I am curious, deadone, why you think the way you do. If you do not believe in a higher power, you probably do not believe in a higher moral order of things, either. So why, in your view, are humans "wrong" if there is no sentience or moral value in nature/the universe beyond the people that inhabit it? I mean, is there something inherently better about nature than paved roads, if there is no human to make that evaluation?


EDIT: That book review is excellent. Of course, it generalizes about these New Evangelical Atheists and lacking an accurate definition, it could be applied or not applied to whoever which may make it seem like a cheap shot to some. But there really is a demographic like that, and the arguments he presents really are spot-on.

That's not to say the world isn't full of religious retards, too. I don't have much sympathy for them, and I guess growing up in America next door to some Protestant sectarian church would make you quite sick of them. But at least they have fully embraced the religious discourse and don't pretend to be something they're not - critical intellectuals. It is much less frustrating to dismiss someone who claims the world was created in 7 days because it says so in a book you don't feel committed to accept to begin with (only ever met one myself, and I study theology), than it is to explain to someone why their religio-metaphysical opinions are a load of bull when they falsely appeal to some scientific theory that you do accept. Really, my sympathy is for smart and critical people in general, and I feel that religious people of that category have it much harder and are shoved to the margins of contemporary discourse, whereas atheist intellectuals (i.e. not Dawkins) tend to get support even if their fanboys don't understand what they're saying.

Written by deadone on 22.07.2014 at 02:21

Written by IronAngel on 21.07.2014 at 14:38

I am curious, deadone, why you think the way you do. If you do not believe in a higher power, you probably do not believe in a higher moral order of things, either. So why, in your view, are humans "wrong" if there is no sentience or moral value in nature/the universe beyond the people that inhabit it? I mean, is there something inherently better about nature than paved roads, if there is no human to make that evaluation?

Humans exist outside the natural order aka food chain or whatever. Getting rid of humans restores order.

The idea of natural vs unnatural is itself an anthropocentric concept, as except through the intervention by an unnatural God, all things would have occurred naturally, including humans and everything they do. It's only because we are human that we make the distinction.

The thing with Atheism is that it tells what the individual does not believe but fails to identify what the individual actually does believe......I understand that it isn't supposed to though, seeing as it's a claim and not a belief system. I absolutely and wholeheartedly share the exact same disbelief as atheists, I accept the theory of evolution as well as the big bang theory as fact and so on, but at the end of the day Atheism is a form of nihilism. Though the more intelligent of human beings are far more likely to reject the existence of a deity, the fact still remains that man has an instinctive need for ritual. Also, though I share the same disbelief as all atheists, what we actually do believe is where the differences come into play. This is why I self-identify with Satanism far more closely and naturally rather than just simply calling myself an atheist. I am an "I-theist".

Atheism can only primarily serve as a 'negative' as far as self-identifying is concerned which makes it nihilistic. Why not base oneself on a 'positive'? Personally, I reject nihilism of any and every form. Life may not be inherently meaningful, but we owe it to ourselves to give it meaning. Vital Existence is the key.

I have nothing against atheists at all, without my ego I would be one too, it's just the secular humanists whom I take issue with. "Good without God", how fucking pointless and spineless! If you feel the need to polish and show off your "good guy badge", then why bother with secularism at all? Acting Christ-Like without Christ......weak. I loathe altruism, it's so self-abasing and unnatural.