What does it take for you to give an album a 1 or a 2?



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Original post

Posted by sgtrobo, 12.10.2020 - 04:24
I'm fairly new to the website, and I did some searching but it's tough to search for "1 star", so I apologize if this has been addressed.
I did see the 'ratings abuse' thread, however.

1 = Worst Ever
2 = Pure Shit

What does it take for you to give an album a 1 or a 2?

For me, it takes a few things to get a 2 (other than me just thinking the album is garbage)

1) It has to be a shit album from a band that has put out good music - shitty bands put out shitty albums. It's a given. When a good band puts out a shit album, that's a real kick in the teeth
2) It has to be a band that I actually listen to - I'm not going to dig out an album from a band whose style I don't like and just 1-star it to be a dick

For example - I like Celtic Frost and Metallica. I think Cold Lake, St. Anger, and Lulu are pure shit, and worthy of 2-stars. Both bands have put out several 9s and 10s, there's no reason for those albums to be so wretchedly bad. I do not like Guns'n'Roses. However, I have not gone to their page and rated any of their albums (despite hearing them all quite a bit...far more often than I'd prefer) just to be spiteful.

I have not rated an album a "1" though, because, in checking some of the album ratings for some of the "AotY" contenders this year, people seem to use the evil 1-star to purposely lower the rating of an album that might be in competition with 'their favorite' and that just seems like another form of rating abuse. Several of the 1-stars in the top 10 (currently) are from people who, surprise surprise, have rated one or more of the "competition" as 10s.

Then others hand out 1-stars like it's candy. How can an album be "the worst ever" if you think there are 50 other "worst evers"? Are they all really the 'worst ever'?

Anyway, I should be studying, and this served to take my mind off of that for a bit, so I'll stop talking now. I am interested in what it takes for someone to label an album a 1 or a 2 though, or is it just generally accepted that people use these rankings to 'lower the competition'
15.10.2020 - 09:33
Enemy of Reality
First of all, we all know that ratings are a matter of preference. But what grinds my gears is the radicalization of ratings between 10 and 1 as OP mentioned. People either like it (giving it a 10) or dislike it (giving it an 1), and if it's just an ok album they give it an 8. There's little thought about what rate to give, probably due to laziness. But that's just a personal observation.

Anyway, what makes me give an album a 1 or 2 could be two things:

a) a well known band making a worthless piece of crap album like Lulu or The Unspoken King.
b) an album that has barely one riff or vocal line that appeals to me. As a whole the album adds nothing to its genre or even to the bands discography. If it didn't exist i wouldn't even notice.

I rarely give 1 and 2s. Even Illud Divinum Insanus got a 3 (because it got a few good tracks).
I don't expect everyone to agree with my ratings and that's fine.

Semargl - Satanic Pop Metal 2
Leaves' Eyes - Njord 2
Municipal Waste - Massive Aggressive 2
Megadeth - The World Needs A Hero 2
Metallica - Six Feet Down Under [EP] 2
Sirenia - The Enigma Of Life 2
Metallica - Lulu [Collaboration] 2
Municipal Waste - The Fatal Feast 2
Periphery - Periphery II: This Time It's Personal 2
Within Temptation - The Q-Music Sessions [Compilation] 2
Evile - Skull 2
Within Temptation - Hydra 2
Babymetal - Metal Resistance 2
Finsterforst - #‎YØLØ‬ [EP] 2
Sonic Syndicate - Confessions 2
Suicide Silence - Suicide Silence 2
Amaranthe - Helix 2
Sonic Syndicate - We Rule The Night 1
Cryptopsy - The Unspoken King 1
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15.10.2020 - 16:21
Dark Forever
Ruído Sonoro
I used to write a lot of album reviews and I had a rating system which included multiple analysis and I still use it today: vocal quality, instrumental proficiency, composition (including lyrics), originality, production and personal preference (this last one balances everything, because I can recognize an album to be very well written but not liking it, and there are some that I admit are average from a technical standpoint but I have a really good time listening to them).

That being said, I would hardly give any album a 1 or a 2. Those who would really deserve it are from bands I won't even consider listening to. And a 10 is not a PERFECT album, it can be a 9.5 (even though I admit I have too many 10 ratings, mostly old ones when I didn't use this system, most of them would probaby be something between a 8.6 and a 9.4 which would result in a 9).

Every rating I ever gave here is 4 or above, excluding these two:
Metallica - Lulu [Collaboration] 3
Sonic Syndicate - Confessions 3

Worst Ever should be reserved for things that are hardly music at all (if any Portuguese people are reading this, I mean stuff like Maria Leal). A 10 should be an iconic album, something that was a landmark in Metal history. I believe way too many people use the rating system not only in a binary way (1 if they don't like it, 10 if they like it), but also to see the album lower / higher in the tops (it's very frequent here to see an album voted as a 10 and many albums released on the same day as 1 by that same person).
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Taste the DARK...
... and you'll live FOREVER!
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15.10.2020 - 16:30
Dark Forever
Ruído Sonoro
Written by Karlabos on 13.10.2020 at 15:24

But have you heard Brazilian funk?


Brazilian funk is on a whole new level. And by that I mean 0. Same for most of Portuguese pimba music (click at risk of hear loss)
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Taste the DARK...
... and you'll live FOREVER!
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15.10.2020 - 22:23
nikarg
Mod
Written by Dark Forever on 15.10.2020 at 16:30

Brazilian funk is on a whole new level. And by that I mean 0. Same for most of Portuguese pimba music (click at risk of hear loss)

Cure for depression. Thank you.
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15.10.2020 - 23:57
Alex F
Slick Dick Rick
Written by Troy Killjoy on 13.10.2020 at 18:11

I have a personal benchmark of Lulu for my 1 end of the rating spectrum, and everything scales up from there. It's the only 1 I'll likely ever give on this site, but that's only because we don't feature mumble rap.

Most mumble rap is infinitely better than Lulu
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get that bag
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16.10.2020 - 04:19
sgtrobo
Written by Enemy of Reality on 15.10.2020 at 09:33

Megadeth - The World Needs A Hero 2


whoa! worse than Risk and Super Collider? I do have World Needs a Hero as my 3rd worst Megadeth, but I think it's still better than Risk or SC


Written by Dark Forever on 15.10.2020 at 16:21

I believe way too many people use the rating system not only in a binary way (1 if they don't like it, 10 if they like it), but also to see the album lower / higher in the tops (it's very frequent here to see an album voted as a 10 and many albums released on the same day as 1 by that same person).

absolutely! It's as if they are "up-voting" their favorite and purposely "down-voting" the "competition"
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17.10.2020 - 19:06
Apothecary
PsyCHEdelic
I think there are actually a lot more albums out there that genuinely deserve 9s or 10s than there are ones that genuinely deserve 1s or 2s. I dunno, color me easily pleased.

I agree that most often extremely negative ratings should be saved for bands you know can be doing better that just come through and drop complete uninspired turds. I think the lowest rating I've given anything on here is a 4 to Sunn O)))'s Kannon, because, well... it's quite a crappy release. But still not really terrible enough to merit "pure shit" or "worst ever" descriptors, I don't think.
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18.10.2020 - 14:58
Ansercanagicus
I think the new Agent Steel song would be another good example for this thread
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18.10.2020 - 15:50
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by Ansercanagicus on 18.10.2020 at 14:58

I think the new Agent Steel song would be another good example for this thread


Have you heard Alex Skolnik hip hop song'
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Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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18.10.2020 - 15:58
JoHn DoE
Written by Bad English on 18.10.2020 at 15:50

Written by Ansercanagicus on 18.10.2020 at 14:58

I think the new Agent Steel song would be another good example for this thread


Have you heard Alex Skolnik hip hop song'


The discussion is about rating full length albums, isn't it?
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I thought the two primary purposes for the internet were cat memes and overreactions.
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18.10.2020 - 16:05
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by JoHn DoE on 18.10.2020 at 15:58

Written by Bad English on 18.10.2020 at 15:50

Written by Ansercanagicus on 18.10.2020 at 14:58

I think the new Agent Steel song would be another good example for this thread


Have you heard Alex Skolnik hip hop song'


The discussion is about rating full length albums, isn't it?


Did you read what that guy wrote, quote him not me frist.
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Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
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18.10.2020 - 16:41
Ansercanagicus
Written by Bad English on 18.10.2020 at 15:50

Have you heard Alex Skolnik hip hop song'


yes. It wasn't great. I didn't seem like it was a commercial product though, and it wasn't trying to impress people. He was just having fun making his song. Why not...

Written by JoHn DoE on 18.10.2020 at 15:58

The discussion is about rating full length albums, isn't it?

Alright. I thought is was about rating music in general. We'll come back to it when the album is out lol
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18.10.2020 - 16:49
JoHn DoE
Written by Bad English on 18.10.2020 at 16:05

Written by JoHn DoE on 18.10.2020 at 15:58

Written by Bad English on 18.10.2020 at 15:50

Written by Ansercanagicus on 18.10.2020 at 14:58

I think the new Agent Steel song would be another good example for this thread


Have you heard Alex Skolnik hip hop song'


The discussion is about rating full length albums, isn't it?


Did you read what that guy wrote, quote him not me frist.


Agent Steel will release a full length album, Skolnick did two rap songs. If only he did not make them...
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I thought the two primary purposes for the internet were cat memes and overreactions.
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18.10.2020 - 16:51
Bad English
Tage Westerlund
Written by JoHn DoE on 18.10.2020 at 16:49


Agent Steel will release a full length album, Skolnick did two rap songs. If only he did not make them...


It makes since album is not out and nobody has hear it, maybe it will blow away all of us.
----
Life is to short for LOVE, there is many great things to do online !!!

Stormtroopers of Death - ''Speak English or Die''

I better die, because I never will learn speek english, so I choose dieing
Loading...
18.10.2020 - 16:55
JoHn DoE
Written by Bad English on 18.10.2020 at 16:51

Written by JoHn DoE on 18.10.2020 at 16:49


Agent Steel will release a full length album, Skolnick did two rap songs. If only he did not make them...


It makes since album is not out and nobody has hear it, maybe it will blow away all of us.


Based on the song that was just posted, I dunno...
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I thought the two primary purposes for the internet were cat memes and overreactions.
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19.10.2020 - 16:39
sgtrobo
I actually posted in the news item for that Agent Steel atrocity that if that is the *best* song on the album, then that album will most likely end up on this list

also, over the last few days been keeping an eye on the top album and what I talked about earlier is blatantly obvious. Various knuckleheads are purposely downvoting the competition. Necrophobic and Benediction spent a bit of time at the top, but someone 1-starred both, coincidentally 10-starring Paradise Lost (and a few others)
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19.10.2020 - 20:15
Ansercanagicus
People voting so the average rating represents their own. Do they understand what average mean? This brings me once again to the idea of dropping the rating system, and build a new once. Why not just "I strongly like it", "it was nice", "I don't care", "I dislike it".
There will still be abuse, but the figures could be interpreted differently.

also, "I listen to it regularly", "from time to time", "I did once and no more", "didn't go through it all"

We could - in yet another system - also ponder everyone's average rating, only to recalculate the rating they sent granted they rated above their personnal average or below it. Once again it doesn't temper abuse, but an 8 given by someone always rating 8 is actually worth a 5 now. This could help have a better spread and more meaningful ratings.
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2020
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20.10.2020 - 01:10
sgtrobo
Written by Ansercanagicus on 19.10.2020 at 20:15

People voting so the average rating represents their own. Do they understand what average mean? This brings me once again to the idea of dropping the rating system, and build a new once. Why not just "I strongly like it", "it was nice", "I don't care", "I dislike it".
There will still be abuse, but the figures could be interpreted differently.

also, "I listen to it regularly", "from time to time", "I did once and no more", "didn't go through it all"

We could - in yet another system - also ponder everyone's average rating, only to recalculate the rating they sent granted they rated above their personnal average or below it. Once again it doesn't temper abuse, but an 8 given by someone always rating 8 is actually worth a 5 now. This could help have a better spread and more meaningful ratings.


this is probably one of those situations where "what would be ideal" clashes strongly with "what can be supported by current manpower"
It would make the ratings far more accurate and worthwhile (your analogy about "an 8 is worth a 5" makes perfect sense) but would probably be a nightmare, from an IT perspective, to implement and maintain, especially since there are 16+ years of ratings already that can't be backported in anyway

I was thinking about the mathematical issues that would arise, even from something as ssimple as changing the rating system to allow 0.5 ratings (such as 7.5, 8.5, etc)
That could totally skew things because the size of the DB now is already immense
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20.10.2020 - 06:39
Troy Killjoy
perfunctionist
Written by sgtrobo on 19.10.2020 at 16:39
Necrophobic and Benediction spent a bit of time at the top, but someone 1-starred both, coincidentally 10-starring Paradise Lost (and a few others)

I deleted that user's votes and sent them a warning. I've been periodically checking in on vote abuse of the top album charts and trying to clean up what I can. Feel free to send me a PM if you come across instances yourself and I'll handle it accordingly.
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20.10.2020 - 08:12
sgtrobo
Written by Troy Killjoy on 20.10.2020 at 06:39

Written by sgtrobo on 19.10.2020 at 16:39
Necrophobic and Benediction spent a bit of time at the top, but someone 1-starred both, coincidentally 10-starring Paradise Lost (and a few others)

I deleted that user's votes and sent them a warning. I've been periodically checking in on vote abuse of the top album charts and trying to clean up what I can. Feel free to send me a PM if you come across instances yourself and I'll handle it accordingly.


well damn...mods on patrol, well done!
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20.10.2020 - 18:33
Ansercanagicus
Written by sgtrobo on 20.10.2020 at 01:10

it would probably be a nightmare, from an IT perspective, to implement and maintain, especially since there are 16+ years of ratings already that can't be backported in anyway


I don't kno much about database, but we already keep track of each voting per user. See the page 'Album votes' on your profile for example. So we just have to compute the average rating per user, which is very simple. I mean it's already on display on this page.
Then you have to keep track of a batch value that is the 'adjusted' rating the user gave to each album. (that multiplies the number of rating entries by two already, but it just means adding a column in the database table.

The adjustment would be adjusted_rating = 5 + previous_rating - users_average. Statisticians can do better, but is does the job. It can be done automatically without manpower. Although editing the database through the server might have a temporal/financial cost I can't ponder

Then another column in each album's rating table, contaiing the adjusted ratings of all users who already voted (easy), and new average of adjusted ratings (easy too)

(EDIT: i'm testing the method in excel, and it creates ratings difficult to interpret (only in terms of 'way above'/'above'/'under'/'way under' average). Also abuse is still possible. Also some people only vote for what they like, so they get wrongly readjusted. The method only works for people listening to every kind of album, from best to worst, so the scale of their ratings makes sense.)

On ther other hand, the 'i like it', 'i dont like it' method would take a total remake of the rating system + UI modifications. This is a lot of work
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Today - 06:23
sgtrobo
Written by Ansercanagicus on 20.10.2020 at 18:33

Written by sgtrobo on 20.10.2020 at 01:10

it would probably be a nightmare, from an IT perspective, to implement and maintain, especially since there are 16+ years of ratings already that can't be backported in anyway


I don't kno much about database, but we already keep track of each voting per user. See the page 'Album votes' on your profile for example. So we just have to compute the average rating per user, which is very simple. I mean it's already on display on this page.
Then you have to keep track of a batch value that is the 'adjusted' rating the user gave to each album. (that multiplies the number of rating entries by two already, but it just means adding a column in the database table.

The adjustment would be adjusted_rating = 5 + previous_rating - users_average. Statisticians can do better, but is does the job. It can be done automatically without manpower. Although editing the database through the server might have a temporal/financial cost I can't ponder

Then another column in each album's rating table, contaiing the adjusted ratings of all users who already voted (easy), and new average of adjusted ratings (easy too)

(EDIT: i'm testing the method in excel, and it creates ratings difficult to interpret (only in terms of 'way above'/'above'/'under'/'way under' average). Also abuse is still possible. Also some people only vote for what they like, so they get wrongly readjusted. The method only works for people listening to every kind of album, from best to worst, so the scale of their ratings makes sense.)

On ther other hand, the 'i like it', 'i dont like it' method would take a total remake of the rating system + UI modifications. This is a lot of work


yes indeed, a ton of work.
Consider, however, the rating adjustment you mentioned.
I tend to rate albums I like. I don't rate every album out there. If I want to make my votes for my favorite albums count "more", I need to downvote other albums, so it actually would feed the issue. For every "favorite" album I rate, I'll have to toss a 1 or a 2 to another album to make sure my "favorite" album rating doesn't lose any weight
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