Written by Guest on 31.01.2007 at 13:18

I've never considered Mercyful Fate a black metal band. I don't know why people have this idea; maybe because of the lyrics

Well, that's pretty much what the term Black Metal originally meant. It's only really in the early 1990's that Black Metal began to be associated with a specific sound, for instance raspy/screamy vocals would be called 'black metal vocals' even though not all BM bands originally sang in that way.

Even though a band like Immortal had corpsepaint and a Bathory type sound on their first album, they never actually regarded themselves as Black Metal precisely because they didn't have Satanic lyrics.

Written by Richard on 31.01.2007 at 18:52

Written by Guest on 31.01.2007 at 13:18

I've never considered Mercyful Fate a black metal band. I don't know why people have this idea; maybe because of the lyrics

Even though a band like Immortal had corpsepaint and a Bathory type sound on their first album, they never actually regarded themselves as Black Metal precisely because they didn't have Satanic lyrics.

not satanic lyrics you talk about Immortal or MF?

MF split up because of satanic lyrics and Kind Diamond start write more like litle horror stories after MF splitt up.
I read it somewhere

Written by Bad English on 31.01.2007 at 19:59

Written by Richard on 31.01.2007 at 18:52

Written by Guest on 31.01.2007 at 13:18

I've never considered Mercyful Fate a black metal band. I don't know why people have this idea; maybe because of the lyrics

Even though a band like Immortal had corpsepaint and a Bathory type sound on their first album, they never actually regarded themselves as Black Metal precisely because they didn't have Satanic lyrics.

not satanic lyrics you talk about Immortal or MF?

MF split up because of satanic lyrics and Kind Diamond start write more like litle horror stories after MF splitt up.
I read it somewhere

I was referring to Immortal. Just using an example of a band that has what is regarded as a typical Black Metal aesthetic in terms of image and sound, but using the old definiton of Black Metal, they didn't regard themselves as a Black Metal band - and neither did Euronymous etc. Although, of course, most of us will usually refer to Immortal as Black Metal anyway these days.

Written by Richard on 31.01.2007 at 20:36

Written by Bad English on 31.01.2007 at 19:59

Written by Richard on 31.01.2007 at 18:52

Written by Guest on 31.01.2007 at 13:18

I've never considered Mercyful Fate a black metal band. I don't know why people have this idea; maybe because of the lyrics

Even though a band like Immortal had corpsepaint and a Bathory type sound on their first album, they never actually regarded themselves as Black Metal precisely because they didn't have Satanic lyrics.

not satanic lyrics you talk about Immortal or MF?

MF split up because of satanic lyrics and Kind Diamond start write more like litle horror stories after MF splitt up.
I read it somewhere

I was referring to Immortal. Just using an example of a band that has what is regarded as a typical Black Metal aesthetic in terms of image and sound, but using the old definiton of Black Metal, they didn't regard themselves as a Black Metal band - and neither did Euronymous etc. Although, of course, most of us will usually refer to Immortal as Black Metal anyway these days.

Ok I see and IMO non of pioner band sin genre dont call them selfs in genre what thay play name, its only leither those bands who try lil' ''coppy'' them and I agree Immortal its unique band,juts like MF too

Written by Richard on 31.01.2007 at 18:52

Written by Guest on 31.01.2007 at 13:18

I've never considered Mercyful Fate a black metal band. I don't know why people have this idea; maybe because of the lyrics

Well, that's pretty much what the term Black Metal originally meant. It's only really in the early 1990's that Black Metal began to be associated with a specific sound, for instance raspy/screamy vocals would be called 'black metal vocals' even though not all BM bands originally sang in that way.

Even though a band like Immortal had corpsepaint and a Bathory type sound on their first album, they never actually regarded themselves as Black Metal precisely because they didn't have Satanic lyrics.

Yep, I quite agree. It was the concept more than the sound which originally defined Black Metal. Very few bands actually described their music as Black Metal even in 90,91.. Its only around 92,93 onwards that the whole "Black Metal sound" ideology came into being. I think Darkthrone in particular had a large role to play in standardising the sound..

Mercyful Fate had more serious and purposeful music and I think many bands prefered that which was why more bands quote them rather than Venom who pretty much invented the genre for a joke.. Definitely Mercyful Fate in terms of music quality though..

Personnally I think Venom, musically I think they are much more talented then Mercyful Fate. Their influence is much greater for they influenced many other types of music besides Black Metal. For example they influenced the Thrash movement, heavy metal and a few other styles of metal. They also greatly influenced the great Slayer which had as big a role in creating Black Metal as the two bands we're discussing.

I better like Venom

Mercyful Fate. "Don't Break The Oath" is one of my favorite metal albums ever and MF was more serious than Venom.

Well this really goes without question as far as I'm concerned. I will without hesitation vote for Venom!! I am in love with their first 2 albums .......where as Mercyful Fate, the music/band is alright I guess but, I strongly dislike King Diamond alot, I find the vocals are too obnoxious and annoying. I don't find the shreiking to be very good at all, sorry

Venom is father of Black Metal.I like Venom but now they re only 3 people.I hope a bassist or a new guitarist will attend Venom.

Both bands are heaps influential.... But I choose Venom over Mercyful Fate. Venom kick ass

I likeee too much this bands... but I don't know... this bands are a strong influence for BM, but well... I think Mercyful Fate is over Venom, their lirycs I think was a great step into a BM ambient, and well, they started to use the corpsepaint and another lil' things... but well Mercyful Fate for me.

Written by Guest on 06.08.2006 at 03:22

Mercyful Fate. Why? Because of the whole concept, the satanic stories, the first corpsepaint, the amazing guitars and the haunting vocals. Venom are a good band but Mercyful Fate are totally beyond a band that is just good.

I totally agree with you man!

imo Venom is too 'party-metal' to be associated with MF. i like MF but Venom i like better, just for 3 songs: Welcome to Hell, Black Metal and Don't Burn The Witch.

for me venom is more funny and closer to current black metal, their riffs are so simple and also affective, but Mercyful Fate is boring for me...

Venom for sure! What you said when you created this topic, I completely agree with- I can't stand King Diamond's fuckin' vocals! God damn it!

Venom hands down..

I've got to say Mercyful Fate for myself because of the same reasons that other people are saying Venom...

I love KD's vocals. I am a sucker for falsetto. Plus I've always enjoyed the musical aspect of Mercyful Fate over Venom. They've never dissapointed me.

My age is starting to show. I bought Venom:Welcome to Hell when it first came out on vinyl and Mercyful Fate Melissa on cassette. There isn't really a good way to compare the two bands. Venom was part of NWOBHM with a gimmick. They brought attention to themselves by going all out satanic and it worked. It never was more than just a novelty to them. Mercyful Fate on the other hand or I should say King Diamond was more serious about ole lou Cipher than Venom. Which is what led to the demise of the band. One thing I never understood was the fact that King Diamond wanted to keep singing about the devil but then toned down his own records. Even though the undertones had devil all over it it was nothing like Mercyful Fate lyrics. Both groups had a major influence on bands to come after. So it is hard to pick which one was better. I listen to Venom more than MF but I enjoy them both.

Venom is good. But damn this is no comparison, King Diamond is a fucking GOD. + hank shermann and michael denner are guitar legends

Oh man! What a difficult one. Very tough match-up...

I suppose I would have to go with Venom because I feel that they are an overall more aggressive band and I like their balls to the wall approach. Not to mention Welcome to Hell is one of my favorite metal records...but Mercyful Fate is such a close second. Especially with their first two albums, Mercyful Fate (EP, "nuns have no fun") and Mellisa. What master pieces.

It is almost a tie!

What i've said in my last post here, i wanna take back lol.

Mercyful Fate > Venom in almost all aspects. the only thing which Venom does better than MF is some damn good party music. also i sometimes like how they are just so purely badass and simple and Mr. T-like lol

This one goes for Mercyful Fate
I've never liked Venom

They both sit so differently with me that I can't put one above the other. Like musicianship I'd give it to Fate, Venom on the other hand really charged the genre and made it what it is. I don't think you can really put a vs. here because they both stand out so differently but generally will attract the same listener.

Granted, venom is easier to listen to and remember lyrics to but I can also say that Fate leave you with more of a story and a sense of fear inthe writing. It's the difference between a band that admittedly faked being into satan vs. a band that actually had a satanist write their lyrics.

All in all I am unanimous in my thoughts, you can't put them against eachother simply cuz without both of their influences there's be no bands like Emperor, Vader or Setherial.

Venom is great, but it is nothing compered to Mercyful Fate. Simple reasons are:
1. MF has King Diamond
2. MF have done good records all along, when Venom did two or three (matter of opinion) good.

I would have to say Mercyfull Fate because once i got used to King Diamods voice i loved it added to he at the atmosphere and for me venom just sounds like they bash on there instruments and nothing more never could get into them.

I love both bands (well, just a little bit more MF than Venom to be honest)..... both bands have been very influential to BM....

MF are obviously more artistic/serious/complex/'trippy'
Venom are so much more Over The Top/party/sex drugs n rock n' roll

depending on my state of mind I would throw on the player some good ol' vinyl!!

VENOM!! Im not that into black metal (as opposed to Death Metal), but i fuckin LOVe me some Venom!

I always loved both bands. I discovered them both when I was 15...which was a deeply formative age. It isn't an easy choice (especially since the styles are so different) but I'm going to have to go with Venom. Welcome to Hell and Black Metal (even if the satanism was for show) really helped set me on the path of metal I've been on for all these years.

"Lay down your souls to the gods' rock and roll..."

Mercyful Fate, always like Hank's riffs and leads. There shouldn't be a genre argument here, though.

Did Mercyful Fate even became an originator of Black Metal? No offense but King Diamond's vocals are gay and annoying, Mercyful Fate's first album was a piece of sh!t, priest/maiden ripoff wannabes, While the 2nd album were everyone says is a classic is also pretty boring to me, Not only that the sound was basic and lame, but the VOCALS are one of the worst i've ever heard, I have heard hundreds of vocalists in every metal genre, but damn, king diamond is probably the gayest.

While Venom on the other hand are the kings of old school black metal, they have an evil atmosphere in their first 3 albums even though it sounds so simple but still badass, no wonder it influenced thousands of bands.

btw King Diamond's "ABIGAIL, THEM, CONSPIRACY, THE EYE" albums sucks too, i mean i get the point that those albums are all about story telling, but damn, how can you appreciate the story tell without even understanding what the fuck is he saying?