Selling out = sucking up to the fans in order to gain their love while sacrificing uniqueness and experimentation

imo, bands that have sold out in this fashion...

Iron Maiden - for never changing
Slayer - for never changing
Dio - for never changing
Megadeth - for giving up the change after Risk
Metallica - Death Magnetic

i know, how dare that bastard mock maiden, slayer and the holy dio!

"We do what we wanna do, you know? If they consider that selling out then...whatever. Why should we change who we are? You know, we're not trying to be something big and fancy, its just us doing what we do. Let's keep it that way." - Cliff Burton

Written by spiritofvengence on 29.04.2010 at 17:57

Selling out = sucking up to the fans in order to gain their love while sacrificing uniqueness and experimentation

imo, bands that have sold out in this fashion...

Iron Maiden - for never changing
Slayer - for never changing
Dio - for never changing
Megadeth - for giving up the change after Risk
Metallica - Death Magnetic

i know, how dare that bastard mock maiden, slayer and the holy dio!

"We do what we wanna do, you know? If they consider that selling out then...whatever. Why should we change who we are? You know, we're not trying to be something big and fancy, its just us doing what we do. Let's keep it that way." - Cliff Burton

Your logic is flawed. You could say the same thing in that Cliff Burton quote about all those bands. Arguably, all these bands have always "just done what they wanna do". In fact, Maiden has a reputation for never marching to the beat of anyone else's drum. Also, how the hell is pleasing your fans selling out? Fans MAKE bands, dude. Once a fan, ALWAYS A FAN (as long as the band doesn't disrespect them). Am I right?

Bands that change their musical style to sell their album to more people.

Like new Dimmu Borgir and new Satyricon.

Written by The Turbanator on 09.05.2010 at 23:58

Bands that change their musical style to sell their album to more people.

Like new Dimmu Borgir and new Satyricon.

I am certain Satyricon didn't change their musical style to sell more. And acttually now they are selling less than with their old style, which imo was a load of bollocks anyway.

Written by Fat & Sassy! on 29.04.2010 at 18:47

Written by spiritofvengence on 29.04.2010 at 17:57

Selling out = sucking up to the fans in order to gain their love while sacrificing uniqueness and experimentation

imo, bands that have sold out in this fashion...

Iron Maiden - for never changing
Slayer - for never changing
Dio - for never changing
Megadeth - for giving up the change after Risk
Metallica - Death Magnetic

i know, how dare that bastard mock maiden, slayer and the holy dio!

"We do what we wanna do, you know? If they consider that selling out then...whatever. Why should we change who we are? You know, we're not trying to be something big and fancy, its just us doing what we do. Let's keep it that way." - Cliff Burton

Your logic is flawed. You could say the same thing in that Cliff Burton quote about all those bands. Arguably, all these bands have always "just done what they wanna do". In fact, Maiden has a reputation for never marching to the beat of anyone else's drum. Also, how the hell is pleasing your fans selling out? Fans MAKE bands, dude. Once a fan, ALWAYS A FAN (as long as the band doesn't disrespect them). Am I right?

I agree but is not always the same....

For example, a widespread case: St. Anger by Metallica. Do you think fans who have grown with Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets etc think the same about them after listening this album?
I think with Death Magnetic the thing was better but when I listened St Anger the first word I thought was SOLD OUT

Written by adean_bllzr on 10.05.2010 at 02:34


I agree but is not always the same....

For example, a widespread case: St. Anger by Metallica. Do you think fans who have grown with Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets etc think the same about them after listening this album?
I think with Death Magnetic the thing was better but when I listened St Anger the first word I thought was SOLD OUT

Metallica didn't sell oput with St Anger. FFS they sold out with Metallica (more commonly known as the Black Album) That's when they softened their sound and got a producer in to fine tune their songs in order to gain as much airplay and mainstream fans as possible.
Actually St Anger was the opposite of selling out. After the immensely poplular Metallica, Load and Reload albums which all had immense mainstream success due to their sound and songwriting they actually recorded something harsh and totally not for anyone's ears. Okay it was shit and even worse than the four (yes I consider And Justice crap) albums prior, but it certtainly wasn;t a sell out album.

To me, selling out means that an artist is no longer making music for themselves, they are making music for the sake of others. Changing your style just because you want to change your style of music isn't selling it, it's playing the music you want to play. If that music ends up being accepted by the general public more then that's what happens. That being said, there are plenty of artists who have sacrificed their music to play the music that someone else wants to hear.

Sellout: A band that does what they can to get people to buy what they produce for profit, not a band that plays because they are trying to actually show a form of art via music. (To put it easily, it's got a soul to it or it doesn't is the cut for me.)

I think it's the most overused term in the metal world... according to some posers oops *cough* elitists *cough* I've talked to, any band who sells more than ten albums worldwide is a sell out in their eyes (and no it's a typo, I said "ten albums worldwide"). In all honesty I'm sometimes embarrassed to call myself a metal fan simply because our movement is full of so many elitist cocksuckers (see Metal-Archives).

The day that any of these tr00 fans turn down a 20$ raise at their jobs (assuming they got one, which is unlikely) let me know.

Written by Mad Mike on 04.10.2010 at 04:08

I think it's the most overused term in the metal world... according to some posers oops *cough* elitists *cough* I've talked to, any band who sells more than ten albums worldwide is a sell out in their eyes (and no it's a typo, I said "ten albums worldwide")

So is it a typo or not?

Written by Mad Mike on 04.10.2010 at 04:08

The day that any of these tr00 fans turn down a 20$ raise at their jobs (assuming they got one, which is unlikely) let me know.

That's the worst analogy I've heard in my life. A day job is different from music, which is an art. Secondly, selling out entails basically changing your music (to be more marketable and accessible) and betraying your fan base to make money. Nothing like getting a raise at all.

Now, if you turned your back on your friends and changed who you are in order to get that $20 raise, that would be different.

Written by adean_bllzr on 10.05.2010 at 02:34

For example, a widespread case: St. Anger by Metallica. Do you think fans who have grown with Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets etc think the same about them after listening this album?
I think with Death Magnetic the thing was better but when I listened St Anger the first word I thought was SOLD OUT

This argument is as wrong as it gets. St. Anger is the exact opposite of a sellout. It's utterly radio-unfriendly and not a single song has any chance whatsoever of being played by a mainstream radio station.

Still St. Anger was played on every Danish commercial radio station at least once or twice a week when it came out

Written by Daniell on 07.10.2010 at 16:40

Written by adean_bllzr on 10.05.2010 at 02:34

For example, a widespread case: St. Anger by Metallica. Do you think fans who have grown with Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets etc think the same about them after listening this album?
I think with Death Magnetic the thing was better but when I listened St Anger the first word I thought was SOLD OUT

This argument is as wrong as it gets. St. Anger is the exact opposite of a sellout. It's utterly radio-unfriendly and not a single song has any chance whatsoever of being played by a mainstream radio station.

But they were trying to get radio attention and get people to buy their albums, thus 'selling out'.

Quote:
All of we have used (or at least heard) the term "sold out", we know that is applied as a response of the dissapointment from old hardcore fans when their favourite bands change drastically their style of music, for both experimenting or reaching wider audiences, and obtain commercial success.

I don't think that's it at all.

I think selling out is when a band starts to pander and do exactly what a certain audience wants. It's a follower-the-leader scenario.

You can sell out like Metallica, or sell out to the hardcore underground crowd by being really violent and primitive. It's all in the intent.

More on this in a reply I posted on WMA, if you're bored.

A band sells out when they change their style in order to obtain commercial success. I don't see what there is to debate about the term. Metallica attempted for a mainstream rock audience with the black album, Cryptopsy attempted a scene kid audience with The Unspoken King; the bands changed their style purely for commercial success.

Written by king_matt on 08.06.2011 at 01:15

Written by Daniell on 07.10.2010 at 16:40

Written by adean_bllzr on 10.05.2010 at 02:34

For example, a widespread case: St. Anger by Metallica. Do you think fans who have grown with Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets etc think the same about them after listening this album?
I think with Death Magnetic the thing was better but when I listened St Anger the first word I thought was SOLD OUT

This argument is as wrong as it gets. St. Anger is the exact opposite of a sellout. It's utterly radio-unfriendly and not a single song has any chance whatsoever of being played by a mainstream radio station.

But they were trying to get radio attention and get people to buy their albums, thus 'selling out'.

Every band wants attention and therefore album sales, be it via the radio or any other means. So, if I were to go along the lines of your reasoning, I'd have to say that every band is a sell-out.

Written by Got Mayhem? on 16.05.2010 at 16:53

To me, selling out means that an artist is no longer making music for themselves, they are making music for the sake of others. Changing your style just because you want to change your style of music isn't selling it, it's playing the music you want to play. If that music ends up being accepted by the general public more then that's what happens. That being said, there are plenty of artists who have sacrificed their music to play the music that someone else wants to hear.

i agree with you on this one...

Good topic.

Once James Hetfield told in an interview that when they made the "One" video a guy approached and spited on him, after such an action, the guy called him "sold out" just for making the video. We know such a song belongs to the "...And Justice For All" album.

I think the term "sold out" depends on who is making the judgment. In that time the "Black Album" was not launched yet, album that according to many people, dropped in quality. In my opinion that is a very good Heavy Metal album, just that. Of course, it belongs to other genre, I mean, it's not thrash metal.

Perhaps, many people who like the underground movement think underground bands shouldn't be more popular by sacrificing their original sound and turning it into a simpler and more audible one (and to others by making a video). That is understandable, that happened to Metallica. Here in Mexico, the metal scene is not very popular among women (most of them, popheads), but many of them bought or borrowed the "Black Album" just to listen to "The Unforgiven" and/or "Enter Sandman" (Here, MTV was responsible for this). In my opinion It was great, at least they showed some interest in a good Heavy Metal album.

Another band which have been labeled as "sold out" is "In Flames". The first In Flames album I listened to was Clayman, even so, I like a lot their newer albums (with the exception of A Sense Of Purpose), I think they have been evolving well, but not everybody thinks the same as me.

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 08.06.2011 at 11:37

Written by Got Mayhem? on 16.05.2010 at 16:53

To me, selling out means that an artist is no longer making music for themselves, they are making music for the sake of others. Changing your style just because you want to change your style of music isn't selling it, it's playing the music you want to play. If that music ends up being accepted by the general public more then that's what happens. That being said, there are plenty of artists who have sacrificed their music to play the music that someone else wants to hear.

i agree with you on this one...

It's very sad when artists take the turn for the dark side. I have a damn list of bands who have done so

Written by Guest on 10.06.2011 at 08:15

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 08.06.2011 at 11:37

Written by Got Mayhem? on 16.05.2010 at 16:53

To me, selling out means that an artist is no longer making music for themselves, they are making music for the sake of others. Changing your style just because you want to change your style of music isn't selling it, it's playing the music you want to play. If that music ends up being accepted by the general public more then that's what happens. That being said, there are plenty of artists who have sacrificed their music to play the music that someone else wants to hear.

i agree with you on this one...

It's very sad when artists take the turn for the dark side. I have a damn list of bands who have done so

yes it is sad indeed....being a musician myself i know how it is damn hard to play the stuff you like but have no money from it...i am not surprised to see people "selling out",partially i understand them,but i don't support them doing so....

Written by Guest on 10.06.2011 at 08:15

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 08.06.2011 at 11:37

Written by Got Mayhem? on 16.05.2010 at 16:53

To me, selling out means that an artist is no longer making music for themselves, they are making music for the sake of others. Changing your style just because you want to change your style of music isn't selling it, it's playing the music you want to play. If that music ends up being accepted by the general public more then that's what happens. That being said, there are plenty of artists who have sacrificed their music to play the music that someone else wants to hear.

i agree with you on this one...

It's very sad when artists take the turn for the dark side. I have a damn list of bands who have done so

One has to eat you know. People can't live on ideals and ideas. Imagine yourself making music and earning fuck all out of it. What would you do: stop making it or make it more accessible to listeners? I don't necessarily think that "selling out" is a good thing, but sometimes the prose of life
makes people drop their ideals and do shit that will help them provide for their families.

Written by Daniell on 10.06.2011 at 15:05

Written by Guest on 10.06.2011 at 08:15

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 08.06.2011 at 11:37

Written by Got Mayhem? on 16.05.2010 at 16:53

To me, selling out means that an artist is no longer making music for themselves, they are making music for the sake of others. Changing your style just because you want to change your style of music isn't selling it, it's playing the music you want to play. If that music ends up being accepted by the general public more then that's what happens. That being said, there are plenty of artists who have sacrificed their music to play the music that someone else wants to hear.

i agree with you on this one...

It's very sad when artists take the turn for the dark side. I have a damn list of bands who have done so

One has to eat you know. People can't live on ideals and ideas. Imagine yourself making music and earning fuck all out of it. What would you do: stop making it or make it more accessible to listeners? I don't necessarily think that "selling out" is a good thing, but sometimes the prose of life
makes people drop their ideals and do shit that will help them provide for their families.

i agree with you too...

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 10.06.2011 at 15:11

Written by Daniell on 10.06.2011 at 15:05

Written by Guest on 10.06.2011 at 08:15

Written by ANGEL REAPER on 08.06.2011 at 11:37

Written by Got Mayhem? on 16.05.2010 at 16:53

To me, selling out means that an artist is no longer making music for themselves, they are making music for the sake of others. Changing your style just because you want to change your style of music isn't selling it, it's playing the music you want to play. If that music ends up being accepted by the general public more then that's what happens. That being said, there are plenty of artists who have sacrificed their music to play the music that someone else wants to hear.

i agree with you on this one...

It's very sad when artists take the turn for the dark side. I have a damn list of bands who have done so

One has to eat you know. People can't live on ideals and ideas. Imagine yourself making music and earning fuck all out of it. What would you do: stop making it or make it more accessible to listeners? I don't necessarily think that "selling out" is a good thing, but sometimes the prose of life
makes people drop their ideals and do shit that will help them provide for their families.

i agree with you too...

In the end though, if you made good music in the first place....you wouldn't have to worry about changing your sound so that it is.

Written by Guest on 11.06.2011 at 05:14


In the end though, if you made good music in the first place....you wouldn't have to worry about changing your sound so that it is.

Were you implying that if a band makes good music, than they will get recognized? That's just untrue; countless quality underground bands don't make enouh money off of music to support a decent lifestyle. Hell, I read that Eric Adams of Manowar, one of the biggest metal bands out there, does construction work when he's not with Manowar to make enough money, although I can't verify that.

Written by Guest on 11.06.2011 at 08:49

Written by Guest on 11.06.2011 at 05:14


In the end though, if you made good music in the first place....you wouldn't have to worry about changing your sound so that it is.

Were you implying that if a band makes good music, than they will get recognized? That's just untrue; countless quality underground bands don't make enouh money off of music to support a decent lifestyle. Hell, I read that Eric Adams of Manowar, one of the biggest metal bands out there, does construction work when he's not with Manowar to make enough money, although I can't verify that.

Your right.
Is there really a big enough market for most death/black (or any genre) to make enough money to fully support themselves? Sure the mainstream bands do... In the end I really don't even know or have an idea to what these guys even make.

Written by Guest on 12.06.2011 at 05:19

In the end I really don't even know or have an idea to what these guys even make.

A hell of a lot less than label execs, that's for sure.

(And they're making less and less as the music industry continues its downward spiral.)

Even a reasonably accomplished, critically approved band like Enslaved still have day jobs.

High On Fire's Matt Pike is a bartender when not touring...

Good metal will not make money. I think its been proven for years now. We all know that you can't make a true honest living playing music that you love. You might be able to play music that makes the money, but who would put themselves through that much torture?

I don't care about band selling out or not selling out. I like a band as long as I like their music.