Nu Metal - A Controversial Subject

Written by: iaberis
Published: 20.10.2006



Every traditional metalhead seems to hate this new kind of metal… But why so much hate? Is it the use of turntables that reminds us of this lousy "Hip-Hop" music and the "Rap" life style? Is it the remembrance of Linkin Park and "the fucked-up childhood lyric concept" as a member of the Metal Storm on-line community once said?

Well, whatever the reason may be, let's have a look on the genre's definition in wikipedia:
Nu metal (also called new metal, aggro metal, man-rock or nü metal using the traditional heavy metal umlaut) is a musical genre that has origins in the mid 1990s. It typically fuses influences from the grunge and alternative metal of the early 1990s with hip hop, electronic music and other metal genres, most often thrash metal and groove metal.

If you look around, you'll see that every living organism is evolving. That's the difference between something living and something dead. A dead thing can't develop or show some progress. Same thing happens in metal; metal was born almost 40 years ago and has changed into many forms and sub-genres. Power, Gothic, Death, Thrash are all some forms of this wonderful thing called evolution. Same thing is Nu Metal, we couldn't expect that something as powerful as metal, would stay untouched by today's life style and way of living. So this new genre is an evidence that Metal is not dead, as many believe. Although many people deny it, Nu Metal is a part of Metal. But let's have a look on how this genre appeared.

Somewhere in the beginning of 1990, bands playing alternative rock/metal and other metal-influenced music started creating they're own kind of music that was not part of any particular metal sub-genre. Bands like Alice In Chains, Primus, Rage Against The Machine, Faith No More, Tool, Body Count (with the rapper Ice-T on vocals) or even Nirvana influenced this movement and gave the fuse to other bands to follow their steps and get in this new metal-influenced style. There's a whole list on wikipedia about the bands that play or influenced the nu-metal movement, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nu_metal_musical_groups.


So, it seems that Nu Metal is a mix of metal and rap/hip-hop, two unlike kinds of music with two different ways of life. Something like that naturally caused many reactions and controversies by both sides. Although it brought metal closer to rap fans, many hardcore fans didn't accept it, believing it's something that degrades metal and it's lower in quality of lyrics and music. I had the same opinion about bands like Slipknot or Korn till a friend of mine, showed me tablatures of what these bands play and I was amazed. Although it seemed to me that they play standard riffs with low quality lyrics and worthless screams, now I have a different idea about them and this kind of music in general. Although I hate rap and hip-hop, I'm beginning to get use to the idea of turntables in metal too. And in the end, the sound still remains metal and hardcore.

But is it really that bad to use instruments and borrow elements from other music styles? Music is evolving all the time and metal follows this evolution. We can't listen to the 80's style for ever and misjudge anything new. New artists with new ideas in the metal scene deserve a chance and some respect too. We can't stick with a particular metal style forever. If we chose this way, there will be a period in the future that old metalheads will be placed aside, listening to old, nearly ancient bands and to a few new bands trying to copy their music. Think for example Metallica and how they changed their music in their latest album, St. Anger, to access the young people and a wider audience.

Personally, I'm not a fan of new metal or any of the bands mentioned above and I don't judge music by the instruments or the vocals they use. I don't have preconceptions about any kind of music and I generally listen to everything that sounds good to my ears… I don't listen to rap of course, but that's another thing. But I do judge music with my own standards and I don't reject any band or kind of music, because some people just don't like it. That shows a lack of strong personality… Make your own choices and don't listen to every single-minded person that tells you what to listen to! Remember Rage Against The Machine and their "Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!" lyric!

Closing this, I'm not saying to all of you to "stop listening to your favorite metal style," but just give a chance to the new bands and the new metal styles, called Nu Metal or whatever name they want to give it. Who knows what the future holds for the metal scene… RnB Metal? Beat/Dance Metal? Pop Metal? If so, what's your choice? Follow your times or stick to the old guys?





 
Guest article disclaimer:
This is a guest article, which means it does not necessarily represent the point of view of the MS Staff.




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Valentin B - 04.11.2006 at 14:50  
a nice article, it should help people stop trying to be troo and labelling everything else as "untroo"
But the article is a bit short so it's a bit inconclusive

who is the band in the bottom right corner btw?
AnGina-- - 04.11.2006 at 15:22  
KoRn.
Skald - 04.11.2006 at 16:52  
Let me get this straight:
You actually believe Nu Metal is hated so much, because it incorporates elements that weren't present in the metal music before and metalheads don't like fresh ideas being brought to the genre?

I'd have to ask why no one's bashing bands like Korpiklaani or Cruachan then. Folk Metal is as new as Nu Metal and it also incorporates elements which are pretty much fresh to the metal music. And don't tell me metal and folk communities are anywhere near same.

Now I enjoy music like metal (heavy, power, viking, folk, melodeath, gothic, doom, glam), rock (hard, soft, alternative, modern, folk), traditional (folk, neofolk, darkfolk, shanties), classical, some darkwave and some blues. So I do believe I keep myself open to various forms of music. Likewise, I did check out several nu metal bands. And you know what? The more chances I gave to such bands, the more I disliked the genre. I really won't help it that it annoys my ears even more than raw black metal.
But I won't say that this makes me hate Nu Metal. It's just another form of music that I don't enjoy. No reason to hate it.
But you know what really pisses me off? Seeing all those articles, purpose of which is to convince people to accept Nu Metal. The way I see it, you promote this form of music just because it's labeled as metal. Quite frankly, I don't see this as being opened to new forms of music, but listening to something just because it's "metal".

Anyway, the idea of metal was to reject the modern lifestyle. That's what metal community was built upon. If we are to accept metal being influenced by today's life style, then we can just as well say bye bye to metal counter culture. In truth, I really can see that happening. Even on these boards it seems to be a common idea to label those who reject mainstream world as "narrow minded".
Opium Magnet - 04.11.2006 at 17:44  
I myslef don't appreciate something which is watered down, simplified and just plainly crucified version of a music that was once made to express a sense of rejection and detachment from a modern lifestyle, rather than embrace and modify it in some way, as Skald described it.

Besides, what is the one main intention behind this kind of "accessible" equivalent anyway? MONEY! and plenty of it.

Music should not be money-focused/driven, it should be focused on a well-thought, intentional message it provides the listener with and for them to understand it. Music I like (not just metal) does just that.
PrettyMao - 05.11.2006 at 08:53  
So, some guy that comes off as being closed minded about rap is telling me I should open my mind and listen to Nu Metal..... yeah, that's rich!

From what I gather the author is not a fan of Nu Metal, but instead wrote the article about how one shouldn't judge music, but at the same time judges people that don't like Nu Metal as narrow-minded and lacking a strong personality.... Good way to make your point... keep up the good work!
iaberis - 05.11.2006 at 13:47  
Written by PrettyMao on 05.11.2006 at 08:53

So, some guy that comes off as being closed minded about rap is telling me I should open my mind and listen to Nu Metal..... yeah, that's rich!

From what I gather the author is not a fan of Nu Metal, but instead wrote the article about how one shouldn't judge music, but at the same time judges people that don't like Nu Metal as narrow-minded and lacking a strong personality.... Good way to make your point... keep up the good work!


Thanks mate! I'm doing my best!
1) As I said, I'm not fan of this genre but I don't reject it either.
2) I'm not telling anyone to sit down and listen to it

I'm just trying to understand why people hate Nu-Metal without even giving it as chance. I've seen other sites that ban every band that is close to Nu from their database. And all that for the reasons mentioned above. I've seen people saying "I hate Nu-Metal" just because they heard that saying from another guy!

My effort here is to make people see this new genre under another perspective...
X-FrEaK - 05.11.2006 at 14:12  
Korn is my favorite band, although, nowadays i barely listen to them, anyway...nu metal has some great bands like disturbed, static-x, slipknot(if you want to call them nu metal), system of a down...in spite of not hearing those bands in a long time i can say that i prefer nu metal to metalcore...right now, im hearing Trivium's Ascendancy...this sucks so much...
ThunderAxe1989 - 05.11.2006 at 16:00  
If Nu-Metal is a part of Metal then howcome Nu-Metallers have never heard of actual Metal bands outside of the Thrash genre

If Nu-Metal was Metal then wouldn't they be a part of this Metal circle in which Metallians are aware of the existance of Metal bands event hat they don't like?!?
Skald - 05.11.2006 at 17:29  
Written by iaberis on 05.11.2006 at 13:47

I've seen other sites that ban every band that is close to Nu from their database. And all that for the reasons mentioned above. I've seen people saying "I hate Nu-Metal" just because they heard that saying from another guy!
Are you sure? I thought they ban bands that go under Nu Metal and xCore, because such bands belong to rock/punk, rather than metal. Opinion I follow myself.
iaberis - 05.11.2006 at 17:32  
All the nu-metalers I know, are aware of the older-legendary bands... even if they don't like them...
iaberis - 05.11.2006 at 17:43  
Written by Guest on 05.11.2006 at 17:29

Are you sure? I thought they ban bands that go under Nu Metal and xCore, because such bands belong to rock/punk, rather than metal. Opinion I follow myself.


I've seen bands like Slipknot, KoRn or even Rammstein being banned in M.A., because they're far from everything traditional. That's not healthy for a site that likes to call itself an Encyclopaedia of Metal...
I've noticed this situation in other similar sites too. I'd tell names, but I don't want to make an advertisement for them! It wouldn't be fair for MS
And at this point I want to congratulate MS, because it doesn't discriminate music bands like that. Although most Nu-Metal bands are inactive, at least their featured. And from what I saw, System of a Down, were added recently. Another great act of responsibility and maturity.
Skald - 05.11.2006 at 18:46  
Written by iaberis on 05.11.2006 at 17:43

Written by Guest on 05.11.2006 at 17:29

Are you sure? I thought they ban bands that go under Nu Metal and xCore, because such bands belong to rock/punk, rather than metal. Opinion I follow myself.

I've seen bands like Slipknot, KoRn or even Rammstein being banned in M.A., because they're far from everything traditional. That's not healthy for a site that likes to call itself an Encyclopaedia of Metal...
Why do I have to repeat myself? Are you sure that's why they banned such bands? Can you provide me with any link that supports this? Because as far as I know, their policy is to keep bands which sound more like rock/punk, less like metal away from their archives. From the same reason you won't find Led Zeppelin there. Please read their rules before accusing them of immaturity or whatever else you'll come up with.
iaberis - 06.11.2006 at 00:23  
Written by Guest on 05.11.2006 at 18:46

Why do I have to repeat myself? Are you sure that's why they banned such bands? Can you provide me with any link that supports this? Because as far as I know, their policy is to keep bands which sound more like rock/punk, less like metal away from their archives. From the same reason you won't find Led Zeppelin there. Please read their rules before accusing them of immaturity or whatever else you'll come up with.


Before accusing me, that I accuse without any proof, have a look on the wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Archives were the following is stated
"Bands that are associated with the nu metal or mallcore labels are completely forbidden and have been since the website started."
If ignoring bands for the reasons I mentioned isn't immaturity, then what is it? [This article is about Nu-Metal, I don't care about the malcore bands]
Skald - 06.11.2006 at 00:53  
Oh for crying out loud!
http://www.metal-archives.com/guidelines.php
Read the goddamn rules of their site. They have a good reason for forbidding such bands and they explain it rather well.

But anyway, I took a look at this wiki article and oh the surprise...
You say Metal-Archives forbids Nu Metal bands because they aren't traditional enough? Quote from wiki:
"The site runners have standards which exclude some bands that are considered by some sites (such as VH1, Allmusic and others) as founding and definitive heavy metal acts, such as Led Zeppelin and Blue Cheer; the website's runners consider these acts as simply hard rock, despite their influence and history. However, there are some websites specialising in rock and metal music that, like Encyclopaedia Metallum, also exclude Led Zeppelin or just mention Led Zeppelin as "hard rock""
So apparently Led Zeppelin aren't traditional enough too! Mighty odd, I would say.

Or, the site owners actually state truth when they say that they only accept bands which are more metal than rock/punk.
iaberis - 06.11.2006 at 01:08  
And according to this, Rammstein or Slipknot or KoRn are not metal enough? And who are they to judge who's metal or not?
Bitch Boy - 06.11.2006 at 05:49  
Written by iaberis on 05.11.2006 at 17:43
And from what I saw, System of a Down, were added recently. Another great act of responsibility and maturity.


System of a Down hasn't been added dude. By the way, I don't like them, but I think that if Deftones and Static X are featured, and have less than 20 fans, I think it would be fair to open SOAD, Korn and Slipknot profiles too. If MS features metalcore, grindcore and hard-rock bands, I don't know why these 3 bands which have lots of fans can't be featured.
Skald - 06.11.2006 at 07:54  
Written by iaberis on 06.11.2006 at 01:08

And according to this, Rammstein or Slipknot or KoRn are not metal enough? And who are they to judge who's metal or not?
I personally don't consider those bands metal.
And can't you read or something?

"None of us here think we're a supreme authority on all things heavy metal. However, since someone has to draw a line somewhere - after all, if we accepted just about anything it wouldn't be the Encyclopaedia Metallum anymore - we'll have to be the one to decide whether or not your submission is valid."

If you don't like it how they run things, make your own website. But if you're going to whine about how they run things without even reading their site rules - guess who's looking immature now.
iaberis - 06.11.2006 at 12:01  
@Bitvh Boy: S.O.A.D. and Slipknot are added but remain inactive
@Skald: You keep reminding me that I haven't read their rules. I inform you that I did and they only say that it's their decision not to add those bands, without further explanation. Maybe you should have a look there too
And about opening my own site... Why not? But MS complies with all my needs, so I'm not in a hurry to open it soon
Skald - 06.11.2006 at 12:40  
You asked
"And who are they to judge who's metal or not?"
While they do state that they don't consider themselves the supreme authority on all things metal. But they need to draw the line somewhere.
Shows how well you've read their rules.

And their rejection of Nu Metal only shows that they care more about the sound than the titles. At least I cannot spot in this article even the tiniest mention of why such bands should be considered metal. They sound more like hard rock or punk than metal to me.

And about me not reading their rules: they do not accept core bands unless they're more metal than core. Since Nu Metal falls under core (at least in their opinion), it goes under this rule. Not enough explanation for you? It is damn clear for me.

And Metal Storm doesn't seem to have an "only metal bands" policy, so it's hardly a good comparison for MA.
Promonex - 06.11.2006 at 12:57  
Written by ThunderAxe1989 on 05.11.2006 at 16:00

If Nu-Metal is a part of Metal then howcome Nu-Metallers have never heard of actual Metal bands outside of the Thrash genre

If Nu-Metal was Metal then wouldn't they be a part of this Metal circle in which Metallians are aware of the existance of Metal bands event hat they don't like?!?

You point at the cultural difference, not at the musical difference. While both styles might be metal music-wise, they have different cultures. Metallians, no matter whether power, heavy, gothic, death, black, prefer black clothes and love to mosh at concerts. Many Nu Metal and Metalcore fans rather follow the baggy pants and basecap style and rather indulge in slam-dancing than in moshing. That's a huge cultural gap that results in "tr00" metallians not accepting nu metallians into their circle and rightly so as both groups don't share the same ideologies. This does not mean that bands like SOAD, Trivium or Chimaira aren't metal, but rather that the target group of those bands is not the traditional metal scene. So cultural-wise being much closer to Metalcore and Hardcore, it is obvious that many Nu Metal fans will be more familiar with Hatebreed than with Exodus.
iaberis - 06.11.2006 at 13:04  
@Skald: Calm down dude! That's your opinion and it is repsected! Every man has his own opinions about metal. To you they are punk... to me they're metal...
Skald - 06.11.2006 at 19:17  
Now you get it. It's just your opinion. And does your opinion allow you to accuse MA of immaturity for having opinion different from yours?
Or state that metalheads who reject Nu Metal from list of metal genres have weak personality?
iaberis - 06.11.2006 at 20:45  
1) My opinion about this site remains the same.
2)I didn't say all metalheads who reject Nu-Metal have a weak personality. That's a false generalization. I said people who reject it because they heard others rejecting it have weak personality. Don't misjudge my sayings
Skald - 06.11.2006 at 21:01  
Yeah, too bad you cannot support your opinion about the site. It's really mature to bash another website like that, isn't it?
As for second answer, make yourself more clear then.
Because through the main part of your article you talk about how people reject Nu Metal because it isn't traditional enough and then out of a sudden you refer to people who conform to what others tell them to listen to.
My interpretation of this is that you say people stick with traditional metal because it is more accepted than Nu Metal.

Oh and I forgot to say this: Wake up, Metallica wanted to reach wider audience just to get more money. Personally I prefer the new hard rock Metallica over the old thrash metal, but that won't blur my perception of what they're doing.

I think I'll conclude on this. There's no point in carrying this on any further.
iaberis - 06.11.2006 at 21:18  
I can't do more than agree with this last post...
Sunioj - 06.11.2006 at 21:33  
Since iaberis wanted opinions, thus I shall give....
I went through nu metal before extreme metal, and it was fun for awhile until I expanded my mind. But I think that disliking nu metal isnt a matter of evolution or taking elements from other genres to create a differrent style, its about taste. Now that I listen to much more technical music, whenever I listen to something else, I feel the need to compare them musically.

Its a bad elitist habit, but I do that with every band and whilst comparing nu metal to more extreme metal I leave the scene laughing at the nu metal band. Not to mention, I find most nu metal bands preying on their fans with trends like anti war lyrics to reach liberal crowds, plus the endless corporate whoring makes me loose interest in any MTV band.

Thank you.
PrettyMao - 06.11.2006 at 22:13  
Written by Promonex on 06.11.2006 at 12:57

You point at the cultural difference, not at the musical difference. While both styles might be metal music-wise, they have different cultures. Metallians, no matter whether power, heavy, gothic, death, black, prefer black clothes and love to mosh at concerts. Many Nu Metal and Metalcore fans rather follow the baggy pants and basecap style and rather indulge in slam-dancing than in moshing. That's a huge cultural gap that results in "tr00" metallians not accepting nu metallians into their circle and rightly so as both groups don't share the same ideologies. This does not mean that bands like SOAD, Trivium or Chimaira aren't metal, but rather that the target group of those bands is not the traditional metal scene. So cultural-wise being much closer to Metalcore and Hardcore, it is obvious that many Nu Metal fans will be more familiar with Hatebreed than with Exodus.


Earlier I responded with a quick comment; although I had a bit more to add. However, it seems Promo has made my point for me...

Basically, metal is all about image... The Nu Metal image (culture) is very different from the image of your traditional metal scenes. A lot of Nu Metal has that MTV feel to it, and appeals to the backwards hats and baggy pants crowd (as Promo has already mentioned in this thread)... This style is probably seen as more conformist with mainstream culture than the traditional metal styles. And as we all know, being part of mainstream culture is not considered very "metal."

The issue of liking or disliking Nu Metal doesn't really focus on the music, but on the image... An image which I don't see myself associating with... That being said, I will say that I am not a person that always judges the image of a band to make up my mind about which bands I like... The music is very important to me, and I always take that as my number one consideration when listening to a band... the image of a band may come into play when I am listening to them... but not always. After all, how can I listen to Rhapsody (of Fire) when their whole discography sounds like some giant, lame D&D adventure (I assume they are using the 3rd Edition rules)...


Anyways, I will quit rambling on here as I have forgotten what my point was... wait... Oh yeah, I don't like MTV.....


Also, what's wrong with rap? I love old school rap...


**editted various typos and misspellings
ThunderAxe1989 - 06.11.2006 at 23:01  
@Promonex: Very insightful , seriosuly, how true.
bns - 07.11.2006 at 14:23  
yeah... nice article....

the only think i understood is
u say a bunch of people close mind cause they listen old stuff and they have "no eyes" to see the real modern attitude (?) of metal scene..

btw u judge those people... (Cause u think u are the clever "progressive" metalhead) but why u judge yourself telling about u dont listen rap music or sth like that... or even most nu metal...
Bitch Boy - 07.11.2006 at 22:33  
Written by iaberis on 06.11.2006 at 12:01
@Bitvh Boy: S.O.A.D. and Slipknot are added but remain inactive


Well, that's what I was talking about. Korn, SOAD, Slipknot and other bands' profiles are inactive, then, they aren't "featured bands", they're invisible bands. But I think that the staff should open those profiles.
iaberis - 07.11.2006 at 22:58  
From the 2184 (till now) featured bands, only the 683 are active...
Fass - 09.11.2006 at 05:18  
Personally, I am a Slipknot fan, and I have listened to their albums over and over again... I can also say that I love bands like At the Gates, Iniquity, Panzechrist, Darkthrone, among many others, who are considered "metal".. does it make me less "true" to listen to Slipknot? Personally, I think not, and here's my reason:

I agree with the article when it says that if you sit down and look at the tablatures and the lyrics of the songs, you'll find that it is not as "simple-minded" as it might look in the first place. Slipknot's main message is quite complex, as they attempt to dig into the dark places in one's soul (which is why they use their masks, they represent dark, twisted parts of mankind), and try to bring them to light in full honesty, even if it means pain or rage. The riffs and rythms acompany this idea, playing slow, tribal and animalistic sounds, followed by fast and aggressive riffs and drum fills. They're conveying human aggression in the way they believe it should be manifested; honestly and in your face.

Another good reason why I think Slipknot is metal is because they believe in what metal has always said to stand for; being against a system. Slipknot's message comes across as a message of unconformity with many specific aspects of society (instead of just being "against the man"), such as abuse of power, discrimination of people who think differently to main-stream society, conformity in the face of injustice, among many other subjects. Slipknot fans are named "maggots", conveying the idea that they are many, they are all alike and they are considered as sub-humans. And Slipknot are "The Pulse of the Maggots", the voice of these many people who feel they are not heard.

The main reason why I like Slipknot, and why I believe they are metal, is what I feel when I listen to them, which is the same feeling I get when I listen to Iniquity or At the Gates or Dakrthrone; I can be aggressive, there is a way I can express my anger and my frustrations. I don't need to go out and shoot someone or to be physically aggressive, even though I know I can be. Instead, I can listen to bands like Slipknot, feel identified with their anger, and express mine through their music. The agression, the low-tuned riffs, the trance-like tribal beats, all take me to a state of catharsis. Isn't that the spirit of metal, or at least part of it? Sid, the DJ, doesn't bother me, he actually doesn't do that much, apart from jumping off high stuff in concerts and adding one or two scratch sounds here an there. Craig (133), the sampler, barely does anything. He just bangs his head full of spikes to the beat and plays keyboards on 1 or 2 songs, plus putting in some movie samples here and there, like in (Sic), where you can hear Al Pacino saying "Here come's the pain!". Basically, most of the music comes from Joey Jordison (Drums, he's absolutely amazing), Jim Root and Mick Thomson on guitars, Paul Gray on Bass and Corey Taylor on vocals. Chris and Shawn (The Clown) also play a big role as percussionists, adding the tribal feel and doing some amazing on-stage performances. So, as a whole, Slipknot is, for my standards, a fantastic metal band, with influences from death, thrash and heavy metal, with new elements and an all-around aggressive and metal sound. So I don't care if they are catalogued as "Nu Metal", because I know they don't represent what is commonly associated to the term "Nu Metal".

And besides, where else can you find a band with 9 guys who can kick Linkin Park's ass any day (although anyone can do that )
Mega-Slayer - 09.11.2006 at 09:05  
I just dont like the fact as some mentioned already,that most nu-metal and metal-core fans don't know of or appreciate good talented Death,Thrash,Black and Prog, bands.I myself have grown up with both and have never cared for the genres,except of course when I was 10 and 11,I liked Korn,limp dick and Slipcock,being I did not known of such talented bands as Death,Savatage,Dream Theater,Testament,Megadeth,Dissection and So forth.I would say that almost all of my friends thought nu-metal was the greatest throughout Middle-School and now in High School metal-core,and I have tried to help and persuade them to get into good bands,but they are to easily brutalized,when I put in Deicide,Morbid Angel,Malevolent Creation,Suffocation and even Megadeth and Slayer.My only friend who can handle the intesity of REAL metal is Alex,who loves Slayer,and now I have hooked to Malevolent Creation and Deicide.
Elijah - 09.11.2006 at 13:08  
Written by ThunderAxe1989 on 05.11.2006 at 16:00

If Nu-Metal is a part of Metal then howcome Nu-Metallers have never heard of actual Metal bands outside of the Thrash genre


Thrash was the most popular movement before nu-metal. Heavy was circulated more via TV and the like, but thrash drew more attention.

This is how I see it, anyway.
Remus - 11.11.2006 at 15:21  
@iaberis Korn and Slipknot tablature amazes you? Funny, when i saw the tabs i was like :"Wait, so you just play this riff over and over again?"
Marcel Hubregtse - 11.11.2006 at 20:36  
Written by Remus on 11.11.2006 at 15:21

@iaberis Korn and Slipknot tablature amazes you? Funny, when i saw the tabs i was like :"Wait, so you just play this riff over and over again?"


And this from someone who has Children of Bodom amongst his favourite bands.
Remus - 11.11.2006 at 21:21  
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.11.2006 at 20:36

Written by Remus on 11.11.2006 at 15:21

@iaberis Korn and Slipknot tablature amazes you? Funny, when i saw the tabs i was like :"Wait, so you just play this riff over and over again?"


And this from someone who has Children of Bodom amongst his favourite bands.


Hmmmm, i think you'll agree Children of Bodom's riffs are just "a little bit" more complicted than Korn riffs. Anyway, it's ok to come out of the "nu-metal" closet. If Korn and Slipknot riffs rock your socks then it's OK!
Darth Satanious - 12.11.2006 at 06:45  
Written by Guest on 04.11.2006 at 16:52

But you know what really pisses me off? Seeing all those articles, purpose of which is to convince people to accept Nu Metal.


These articles have all the validity in the World. Nu Metal and now Metalcore are being bashed senselessly to the point of exhaustion and I see no wrong in trying to make people to finally understand that Nu Metal is a subgenre of Metal as any other subgenre and that it should be respected as such. Differing from other genres, Nu Metal and Metalcore are discriminated without reason, justifiable reasons.

There are Metalheads that do not like genres such as Power Metal, Black Metal, Folk Metal, etc. and, differing from Nu Metal, they do not go to those bands' threads to bash their genres. However, it is so much fun to go to Nu Metal bands' threads and bash the genre endlessly. What is the reason for this? Perhaps, is it because of some ignorant fans that the genre gardens after the media exposure it possesses? If it is so, ignorant fans are everywhere, within every Metal subgenre and this thread sadly shows some of them and the fans associated to a genre are not a reason for judging its music. Also, could it be for the media exposure that the genre has itself? None of those aspects have anything to do with the music itself. Also, if fans that swear that Metal starts and ends with Korn get on your nerves, then direct your cannons towards those idiots in specific and not towards the subgenre and the bands within it.

Do you believe otherwise? Then, tell me what justifies bashing Nu Metal.

***The following paragraphs are directed towards the people whose argument is the one I am putting within quotes, not necessarily someone in specific:

"Nu Metal is made for the masses; they are a commercialized version of Metal."

Really, what made you believe this? Where is the proof that all bands within this genre play with this sole goal? Do you read people's minds in order to know what they think and the intentions behind their music? No, you don't, and any of those ideas that circle around your head (which take space away for other possible flies to have more fun along with the rest that fly and mate within that hallow space that is supposed to contain a brain in the head of yours) are nothing but sorry assumptions that have not the least veracity in them.

You people must learn to separate assumptions and opinions from facts or else you will remain drowned in your own ignorance. Of course, it is wise to consider all the possibilities when evaluating thoughts and ideas, for example: considering the possibility that X and Y band do not have the compromise for Music in comparison to other bands and musicians. However, you must also consider the possibility that the music these controversial bands come up with could come directly from their hearts too. Then, how to finally choose between these two possibilities and eliminate one of them? If you know of any other way rather than having the band members acknowledging their lack of compromise with their music then tell me which one. They will never acknowledge that they make music for money or that they sold out, you say? Then, the real intentions behind their music will remain in the dark for all of us. Nevertheless, if bands hide the intentions behind their music when in reality they make it for the sole purpose of making money (in a hypothetical case) then it is no excuse to make assumptions and crucify bands without proof. Our wisdom as human beings comes from realizing how ignorant we are and once Socrates said: "The more you know, the more you realize that you know nothing".

"Nu Metal is simplistic and lacks of talent"

Only in your wet dreams that is. As I have said so many times before, Nu Metal has very talented musicians within their ranks as any other subgenre of Metal does; Nu Metal has very mediocre musicians as any other subgenre of Metal does. Which genre has worst bands than the other? I cannot tell for I haven't made nor seen any survey about it in order to be sure and considering a band as mediocre would come to be entirely subjective to begin with. Moreover, there are, for example, even more talented drummers within Nu Metal than several bands within the Gothic Metal and Folk Metal ranks.

Speaking of the Folk Metal subgenre, there are bands in that genre that only come up with a stupid violin melody, some guitar distortion in the background, some lame drum patterns, and some vocals making choruses to keep it all together and that is all, that is all the complexity of that music. Still, you have fans from that genre that literally cum in an orgasmic frenzy over such bands as sexually repressed teenagers. Ironically, they swear that the complexity of the music goes far from any Nu Metal band. I have nothing against the subgenre of Folk and I even like it pretty much but facts remain as facts regardless of opinions and this should be pointed out when some fans want to raise these bands supposed prowess over bands of Nu Metal when in reality they can be as simplistic or even more simplistic than the Nu Metal counterparts. If you don't like Nu Metal, fine, have it your way but don't try to invent some sad excuses of justifications that do not have the less veracity; just stick with reasons of musical taste.

Furthermore, let us play with the idea that Nu Metal is indeed less talented than other Metal subgenres, is this enough reason for rejecting the genre? If so, then some bands from Power, Heavy, Thrash, Folk, etc. come to be as worthless as Nu Metal in front of bands such as Necrophagist, Dream Theater, Decapitated, Coroner, and all those bands that play far more technical and musically exceeding music. In fact, we would only listen to one band and being it the most technical and musically exceeding one; the rest would only be crap if we are to follow these rules.

"Nu Metal doesn't have passion and feeling behind the music."

Considering music to have passion and dedication behind it is a conclusion to which every listener falls into, regardless of genres, for this is a conclusion totally opinionated, completely subjective.

Written by Guest on 04.11.2006 at 16:52

Anyway, the idea of metal was to reject the modern lifestyle. That's what metal community was built upon. If we are to accept metal being influenced by today's life style, then we can just as well say bye bye to metal counter culture. In truth, I really can see that happening. Even on these boards it seems to be a common idea to label those who reject mainstream world as "narrow minded".


The idea of Metal was that you say?You make it seem as if Metal was coldly configured and meant to be this way. If so, then tell me, how do you know it? Where is the evidence? Do you think that fans of Metal said: "Yeah dude let us group and rebel against the media."? Metal is expression and if what Metal came to be something which the media does not favor must have been an result of Metal instead of its purpose.

Pioneering Metal bands used to sell as much records as any Nu Metal band back in the day and still they stay strong in sells these days. If Nu Metal is going to be considered as less for being more accessible in its style, then those Folk, Gothic, Melodic Death, Power, Heavy, etc. subgenres are as worthless as Nu Metal in front of the most brutal and extreme genres of Metal.

Written by Guest on 05.11.2006 at 17:29

Written by iaberis on 05.11.2006 at 13:47

I've seen other sites that ban every band that is close to Nu from their database. And all that for the reasons mentioned above. I've seen people saying "I hate Nu-Metal" just because they heard that saying from another guy!
Are you sure? I thought they ban bands that go under Nu Metal and xCore, because such bands belong to rock/punk, rather than metal. Opinion I follow myself.


Nu Metal bands rely heavily in Post-Thrash Metal after the mighty Pantera's influence. Check out those groovy riffs in some of Slipknot's songs.

Written by Guest on 06.11.2006 at 00:53

Oh for crying out loud!
http://www.metal-archives.com/guidelines.php
Read the goddamn rules of their site. They have a good reason for forbidding such bands and they explain it rather well.

But anyway, I took a look at this wiki article and oh the surprise...
You say Metal-Archives forbids Nu Metal bands because they aren't traditional enough? Quote from wiki:
"The site runners have standards which exclude some bands that are considered by some sites (such as VH1, Allmusic and others) as founding and definitive heavy metal acts, such as Led Zeppelin and Blue Cheer; the website's runners consider these acts as simply hard rock, despite their influence and history. However, there are some websites specialising in rock and metal music that, like Encyclopaedia Metallum, also exclude Led Zeppelin or just mention Led Zeppelin as "hard rock""
So apparently Led Zeppelin aren't traditional enough too! Mighty odd, I would say.

Or, the site owners actually state truth when they say that they only accept bands which are more metal than rock/punk.


I don't know if you guys skipped this or just didn't want to see it in the Wikipedia article about Metal Archives:

Additionally, there are some non-metal bands featured on the site that are considered to be part of the metal scene despite not being metal themselves (usually dark ambient and folk bands, examples being Mortiis, Elend, Autumn Tears, Stille Volk, etc). These bands are selected by the moderators in an admittedly arbitrary fashion, and their submission by normal users is discouraged.

Is there something wrong if they accept those bands within their menu? Of course not I would say, but if they want to assure that their list of bands stay true to what Metal is and rejects bands from other musical forms that deviate from Metal then there is a problem.
Then, bands that are Nu Metal are not considered to be added when these ones are added. Also, it is pretty funny that they associate Mortiis with Metal but they don't accept Led Zeppelin after their importance in Metal's formation.

I couldn't care less if Metal Archives adds Nu Metal or not, the same goes for Metal Storm, but if they claim that they stay true to Metal and add those bands to their lines it is time to explode their dream bubble and take them out of their self-constructed Matrix.

Written by Guest on 06.11.2006 at 21:01


Oh and I forgot to say this: Wake up, Metallica wanted to reach wider audience just to get more money. Personally I prefer the new hard rock Metallica over the old thrash metal, but that won't blur my perception of what they're doing.


This is what I am talking about. You write this with the appositeness of one who owns the truth about what he says. How do you know that Metallica took that direction with their music with the sole though of making money? How do you know that there was no other reason behind their change of musical direction? As far as I know, this could be a possibility but also it could have been that they just wanted to take this new direction, they allowed the influence from their old favorite bands to take form in their music, they were getting influenced by bands of the Rock stardom of the time, and other possibilities that may not come to my head right now.

"You see that line on the horizon, that line in which both sea and heaven unite at the distance. After that line there is nothing, just a precipice where boats fall and are never to be seen again after they trespass the limit of our square World. Yes, our World is square." This conversation could have easily taken place during the pre-Renaissance periods and shows how ignorant people can turn out when they try to pass assumptions as facts. Before Christopher Columbus got to prove that the World was indeed round (I know that Vikings are said to have gotten to the New World prior to Columbus), the general thought of people was that the World was square. Likewise, people who claim that Nu Metal bands and bands that change their style only play for money fall to this conclusion just because what they see as success and media exposure makes them believe that these aspects related to the genre are enough to pass their assumptions as facts. Thus, it all comes to be the effort of human beings in grasping whatever makes sense to them and pass it as truth in order to avoid the real nature of their ignorance. When something cannot be proven, the ideal step to take is to formulate theories but never pass them as facts; don't you learn this in third grade?

Written by Sunioj on 06.11.2006 at 21:33


Not to mention, I find most nu metal bands preying on their fans with trends like anti war lyrics to reach liberal crowds, plus the endless corporate whoring makes me loose interest in any MTV band.


Most Nu Metal bands write about anti-war themes, you say? Give me the number of bands who do versus the number of bands that don't in order to prove this. Then, writing about Satanism, Medieval Times, Dragons, Violence/Gore, Vikings, Odinism, etc. does not come to be trendy, right? Even when these topics are being used until they are burnt to death by bands within Metal? Also, just for the record, Nu Metal's lyrics do not circle solely around war themes.

Written by Guest on 09.11.2006 at 05:18


Another good reason why I think Slipknot is metal is because they believe in what metal has always said to stand for; being against a system. Slipknot's message comes across as a message of unconformity with many specific aspects of society (instead of just being "against the man"), such as abuse of power, discrimination of people who think differently to main-stream society, conformity in the face of injustice, among many other subjects. Slipknot fans are named "maggots", conveying the idea that they are many, they are all alike and they are considered as sub-humans. And Slipknot are "The Pulse of the Maggots", the voice of these many people who feel they are not heard.


The classification of a band in Metal comes from the style of music they play instead of lyrical themes and attitudes. Of course, there are some attitudes and lyrical themes that characterize Metal but it does not limit the bands within this musical genre.

Written by Remus on 11.11.2006 at 21:21

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.11.2006 at 20:36

Written by Remus on 11.11.2006 at 15:21

@iaberis Korn and Slipknot tablature amazes you? Funny, when i saw the tabs i was like :"Wait, so you just play this riff over and over again?"


And this from someone who has Children of Bodom amongst his favourite bands.


Hmmmm, i think you'll agree Children of Bodom's riffs are just "a little bit" more complicted than Korn riffs. Anyway, it's ok to come out of the "nu-metal" closet. If Korn and Slipknot riffs rock your socks then it's OK!


Because he defends Nu Metal it doesn't mean that he necessarily likes it; he is just pointing out how you are trying to undervalue bands whose style may not be as far musically demanding speaking from a band you listen to and thus canceling your whole argument. Can't you manage more than two ideas at one time? Defending Nu Metal = liking Nu Metal

This is part of the problem with these Metal fans who bash Nu Metal endlessly: they cannot handle more than two ideas at the time, it seems.
iaberis - 12.11.2006 at 07:01  
:-O
At the begining I thought this was a spam...
but now I've read it, I think it's the most accurate and well-answering post to this thread, this is gonna shut some mouths!!!
Opium Magnet - 12.11.2006 at 10:27  
Some of those quoted statements are implied by a few of the bands at least, as well as the distribution of Nu metal cd's, hence why they are branded or also recognised as "mallcore", simply because you can see their cd's in large, commercial stores and this includes those "family-friendly" environment kind stores not to mention.

Wow, I hope that made some sense, I might rewrite that to make my point clearer, but I think you get the idea.
Darth Satanious - 12.11.2006 at 12:04  
Written by Guest on 12.11.2006 at 10:27

Some of those quoted statements are implied by a few of the bands at least, as well as the distribution of Nu metal cd's, hence why they are branded or also recognised as "mallcore", simply because you can see their cd's in large, commercial stores and this includes those "family-friendly" environment kind stores not to mention.

Wow, I hope that made some sense, I might rewrite that to make my point clearer, but I think you get the idea.


If you meet this girl and you become good friends and this one time the chick offers you to accompany her to her apartment, it is possible that you will imply that she is offering you to have sex with her. Now, it is also possible that she is just looking for your company in her way to the apartment. You perceive what she means with that invitation but you cannot be sure if she is looking to have sex with you. It is more like an idea you create out of your own imagination. At times you can be proven right: if at the end she wants to have sex with you, other times you were just drifting away in your dreams, and other times you will never know if it is true what you imagine.

Now, I don't see what you believe that Nu Metal bands are implying here. If the bands hit the shelves of big stores it only means that they are selling many records and thus have the acceptance of many people. That is the only message I am receiving.
Opium Magnet - 12.11.2006 at 12:25  
What they imply is based upon my perception as well as others in this community, some share similar views in this case.
Skald - 12.11.2006 at 17:44  
@Darth Satanious:
"Do you believe otherwise? Then, tell me what justifies bashing Nu Metal."
Simple. Metalheads who don't accept Nu Metal generally have a better appreciation of metal 'brotherhood'. This might sound like it has no logical connection, but actually communities which accept Nu Metal, take influence of the popular society, ergo lose touch with the 'outiders' world. To you it may sound like a good thing, but in my opinion there should always be a place where those who "don't belong" to popular culture could feel at home.
Today difference between metalheads and popular culture blurs and disappears. Metal community changes from counter culture to simple sub-culture. There's no longer anything that could attract outsiders and as such it loses 'fresh' and 'unique' touch. There's no longer anything special about metal. Just some dudes headbanging. That's all there is to it.
The breed of metalheads is dying. Instead of laid back people we have band of people who insist on being politically correct on their every step. "Don't bash this, don't bash that. Keep yourself open to popular influence and turn the other cheek when it destroys what you love so much". You like it this way? Fine. But not everyone does.


"This is what I am talking about. You write this with the appositeness of one who owns the truth about what he says. How do you know that Metallica took that direction with their music with the sole though of making money?"
What you said there also is what you're talking about. You actually assumed I have no reason to say this, didn't you? But proof that this is Metallica's aim is so obvious that it hurts. Or maybe you somehow didn't notice their change of attitude towards money?


"I don't know if you guys skipped this or just didn't want to see it in the Wikipedia article about Metal Archives:"
I don't totally agree with those bands being added there, but I don't bash them for doing so either. It's their site and they can do whatever they want.
As for staying away from true metal this way, from my experience the bands they add this way are rather borderline and usually their members are connected with metal in one way or another. I know this is the case for Dargaard, Piorun, Perunwit, Fejd or Of The Wand & The Moon. I don't know about those bands listed by wiki, so I cannot comment on that.

"The idea of Metal was that you say?You make it seem as if Metal was coldly configured and meant to be this way. If so, then tell me, how do you know it?"
Bacause I took a look at history of metal community and how it developed. Such mentality evolved together with evolution of metal from the rock music. It was also response to the wave of commercial music (back then music commercialisation wasn't as normal as it is today, so it caused strong responses).
You made another assumption, didn't you?

Also, I'm interested in how you simplify everything to make a point. Or do you actually believe the world is that simple? I mean, sure - let's put Iron Maiden next to any Nu Metal band. Obviously if both earn a lot of money, it must be from same reasons, right?

But no, okay. Let's be politically correct. Nu Metal bands are so popular because they're extremely talented.
I'll also add that it was only Metallica's inspiration that turned them to the new sound. And it's nothing more than a coincidence that it happened in the same period of time when Lars started bitching about money.
-MeTaLlIc-OwL- - 12.11.2006 at 22:37  
Nu Metal still sucks anyway, its mediocre, lacks of complexity and power, those are good reasons to hate it.
Doc Godin - 13.11.2006 at 10:19  
Written by Guest on 04.11.2006 at 16:52

Let me get this straight:
You actually believe Nu Metal is hated so much, because it incorporates elements that weren't present in the metal music before and metalheads don't like fresh ideas being brought to the genre?

I'd have to ask why no one's bashing bands like Korpiklaani or Cruachan then. Folk Metal is as new as Nu Metal and it also incorporates elements which are pretty much fresh to the metal music. And don't tell me metal and folk communities are anywhere near same.

Now I enjoy music like metal (heavy, power, viking, folk, melodeath, gothic, doom, glam), rock (hard, soft, alternative, modern, folk), traditional (folk, neofolk, darkfolk, shanties), classical, some darkwave and some blues. So I do believe I keep myself open to various forms of music. Likewise, I did check out several nu metal bands. And you know what? The more chances I gave to such bands, the more I disliked the genre. I really won't help it that it annoys my ears even more than raw black metal.
But I won't say that this makes me hate Nu Metal. It's just another form of music that I don't enjoy. No reason to hate it.
But you know what really pisses me off? Seeing all those articles, purpose of which is to convince people to accept Nu Metal. The way I see it, you promote this form of music just because it's labeled as metal. Quite frankly, I don't see this as being opened to new forms of music, but listening to something just because it's "metal".

Anyway, the idea of metal was to reject the modern lifestyle. That's what metal community was built upon. If we are to accept metal being influenced by today's life style, then we can just as well say bye bye to metal counter culture. In truth, I really can see that happening. Even on these boards it seems to be a common idea to label those who reject mainstream world as "narrow minded".


Owned.

@iaberis, just because a band isnt nu metal, doesnt mean it cant be 'new' metal. As previously stated, not every band that isnt nu metal isnt trying to immitate 80s metal. Im not sure if thats the message you were trying to send, but the wording came out that way.

good attempt though.
Fass - 13.11.2006 at 16:24  
Written by Guest on 12.11.2006 at 22:37

Nu Metal still sucks anyway, its mediocre, lacks of complexity and power, those are good reasons to hate it.


I thought we were trying to avoid comments like this

Oh well, unargumentative haters are everywhere I guess...

BTW: the only alleged "Nu Metal" band I like is Slipknot... All other bands like Ill Nino, Linkin Park and that sort of stuff is not my taste...
4look4rd - 13.11.2006 at 16:56  
Im gonna explain:
WHY WE METALHEADS HATE NU-METAL part 100000000000001
Nu metal combines the 2 generes that all metalheads hate, PUNK and RAP, with cheap/cheese/lame/repeted riffs, and ofcorce crapy lyrics.
Nu metal is like adding the cheeseness of punk, the repetition rap, + crepy lyrics
Promonex - 13.11.2006 at 17:17  
Written by 4look4rd on 13.11.2006 at 16:56

Im gonna explain:
WHY WE METALHEADS HATE NU-METAL part 100000000000001
Nu metal combines the 2 generes that all metalheads hate, PUNK and RAP, with cheap/cheese/lame/repeted riffs, and ofcorce crapy lyrics.
Nu metal is like adding the cheeseness of punk, the repetition rap, + crepy lyrics

LOL, that actually made me laugh!
You haven't really read ANYTHING in this entire topic, have you?

And that's why every metalhead hates bands like Slayer, Tankard, Nuclear Assault, Stormtroopers of Death and Suicidal Tendencies, coz they are all more or less punk influenced (and the latter even uses hip hop influences), which is hated by all of us metalheads, right?

And dude, you're a Manowar fan, I don't really think you have the legitimation to blame others of being cheesy
necrovamp - 13.11.2006 at 21:04  
Think ill stick to the 'acient bands' as the author describes them, notice they have been around since 1970s and can still fill stadiums. Any way personaly i despise nu metal, but if people like it and listen to it it's up to them, i cant stop them by ranting about it on here can I.
all i can say is at least it isnt pure hip hop or rap or whatever, at least itits been tainted by metal, Metal is spreading and soon it shall rule supreme!

Long Live Metal
4look4rd - 13.11.2006 at 21:32  
Written by Promonex on 13.11.2006 at 17:17

Written by 4look4rd on 13.11.2006 at 16:56

Im gonna explain:
WHY WE METALHEADS HATE NU-METAL part 100000000000001
Nu metal combines the 2 generes that all metalheads hate, PUNK and RAP, with cheap/cheese/lame/repeted riffs, and ofcorce crapy lyrics.
Nu metal is like adding the cheeseness of punk, the repetition rap, + crepy lyrics

LOL, that actually made me laugh!
You haven't really read ANYTHING in this entire topic, have you?

And that's why every metalhead hates bands like Slayer, Tankard, Nuclear Assault, Stormtroopers of Death and Suicidal Tendencies, coz they are all more or less punk influenced (and the latter even uses hip hop influences), which is hated by all of us metalheads, right?

And dude, you're a Manowar fan, I don't really think you have the legitimation to blame others of being cheesy


I did read some, however I got really bored. I think that WE are metalheads, and even if you dont want to admit we all are closeminded, and thats a good thing, we dont want our favorite kind of music to be converted in a "money machine", and also we dont want posers do listen it. Thats also why people hate metalheads like us.

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