Nu Metal - A Controversial Subject


Written by: iaberis
Published: 20.10.2006





Every traditional metalhead seems to hate this new kind of metal… But why so much hate? Is it the use of turntables that reminds us of this lousy "Hip-Hop" music and the "Rap" life style? Is it the remembrance of Linkin Park and "the fucked-up childhood lyric concept" as a member of the Metal Storm on-line community once said?

Well, whatever the reason may be, let's have a look on the genre's definition in wikipedia:
Nu metal (also called new metal, aggro metal, man-rock or nü metal using the traditional heavy metal umlaut) is a musical genre that has origins in the mid 1990s. It typically fuses influences from the grunge and alternative metal of the early 1990s with hip hop, electronic music and other metal genres, most often thrash metal and groove metal.

If you look around, you'll see that every living organism is evolving. That's the difference between something living and something dead. A dead thing can't develop or show some progress. Same thing happens in metal; metal was born almost 40 years ago and has changed into many forms and sub-genres. Power, Gothic, Death, Thrash are all some forms of this wonderful thing called evolution. Same thing is Nu Metal, we couldn't expect that something as powerful as metal, would stay untouched by today's life style and way of living. So this new genre is an evidence that Metal is not dead, as many believe. Although many people deny it, Nu Metal is a part of Metal. But let's have a look on how this genre appeared.

Somewhere in the beginning of 1990, bands playing alternative rock/metal and other metal-influenced music started creating they're own kind of music that was not part of any particular metal sub-genre. Bands like Alice In Chains, Primus, Rage Against The Machine, Faith No More, Tool, Body Count (with the rapper Ice-T on vocals) or even Nirvana influenced this movement and gave the fuse to other bands to follow their steps and get in this new metal-influenced style. There's a whole list on wikipedia about the bands that play or influenced the nu-metal movement, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nu_metal_musical_groups.


So, it seems that Nu Metal is a mix of metal and rap/hip-hop, two unlike kinds of music with two different ways of life. Something like that naturally caused many reactions and controversies by both sides. Although it brought metal closer to rap fans, many hardcore fans didn't accept it, believing it's something that degrades metal and it's lower in quality of lyrics and music. I had the same opinion about bands like Slipknot or Korn till a friend of mine, showed me tablatures of what these bands play and I was amazed. Although it seemed to me that they play standard riffs with low quality lyrics and worthless screams, now I have a different idea about them and this kind of music in general. Although I hate rap and hip-hop, I'm beginning to get use to the idea of turntables in metal too. And in the end, the sound still remains metal and hardcore.

But is it really that bad to use instruments and borrow elements from other music styles? Music is evolving all the time and metal follows this evolution. We can't listen to the 80's style for ever and misjudge anything new. New artists with new ideas in the metal scene deserve a chance and some respect too. We can't stick with a particular metal style forever. If we chose this way, there will be a period in the future that old metalheads will be placed aside, listening to old, nearly ancient bands and to a few new bands trying to copy their music. Think for example Metallica and how they changed their music in their latest album, St. Anger, to access the young people and a wider audience.

Personally, I'm not a fan of new metal or any of the bands mentioned above and I don't judge music by the instruments or the vocals they use. I don't have preconceptions about any kind of music and I generally listen to everything that sounds good to my ears… I don't listen to rap of course, but that's another thing. But I do judge music with my own standards and I don't reject any band or kind of music, because some people just don't like it. That shows a lack of strong personality… Make your own choices and don't listen to every single-minded person that tells you what to listen to! Remember Rage Against The Machine and their "Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me!" lyric!

Closing this, I'm not saying to all of you to "stop listening to your favorite metal style," but just give a chance to the new bands and the new metal styles, called Nu Metal or whatever name they want to give it. Who knows what the future holds for the metal scene… RnB Metal? Beat/Dance Metal? Pop Metal? If so, what's your choice? Follow your times or stick to the old guys?






 


Guest article disclaimer:
This is a guest article, which means it does not necessarily represent the point of view of the MS Staff.


Comments page 2 / 5

Comments: 150   Visited by: 280 users
07.11.2006 - 22:58
iaberis
Advice Troll
From the 2184 (till now) featured bands, only the 683 are active...
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Bitch! Please
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09.11.2006 - 05:18
Fass
Account deleted
Personally, I am a Slipknot fan, and I have listened to their albums over and over again... I can also say that I love bands like At the Gates, Iniquity, Panzechrist, Darkthrone, among many others, who are considered "metal".. does it make me less "true" to listen to Slipknot? Personally, I think not, and here's my reason:

I agree with the article when it says that if you sit down and look at the tablatures and the lyrics of the songs, you'll find that it is not as "simple-minded" as it might look in the first place. Slipknot's main message is quite complex, as they attempt to dig into the dark places in one's soul (which is why they use their masks, they represent dark, twisted parts of mankind), and try to bring them to light in full honesty, even if it means pain or rage. The riffs and rythms acompany this idea, playing slow, tribal and animalistic sounds, followed by fast and aggressive riffs and drum fills. They're conveying human aggression in the way they believe it should be manifested; honestly and in your face.

Another good reason why I think Slipknot is metal is because they believe in what metal has always said to stand for; being against a system. Slipknot's message comes across as a message of unconformity with many specific aspects of society (instead of just being "against the man"), such as abuse of power, discrimination of people who think differently to main-stream society, conformity in the face of injustice, among many other subjects. Slipknot fans are named "maggots", conveying the idea that they are many, they are all alike and they are considered as sub-humans. And Slipknot are "The Pulse of the Maggots", the voice of these many people who feel they are not heard.

The main reason why I like Slipknot, and why I believe they are metal, is what I feel when I listen to them, which is the same feeling I get when I listen to Iniquity or At the Gates or Dakrthrone; I can be aggressive, there is a way I can express my anger and my frustrations. I don't need to go out and shoot someone or to be physically aggressive, even though I know I can be. Instead, I can listen to bands like Slipknot, feel identified with their anger, and express mine through their music. The agression, the low-tuned riffs, the trance-like tribal beats, all take me to a state of catharsis. Isn't that the spirit of metal, or at least part of it? Sid, the DJ, doesn't bother me, he actually doesn't do that much, apart from jumping off high stuff in concerts and adding one or two scratch sounds here an there. Craig (133), the sampler, barely does anything. He just bangs his head full of spikes to the beat and plays keyboards on 1 or 2 songs, plus putting in some movie samples here and there, like in (Sic), where you can hear Al Pacino saying "Here come's the pain!". Basically, most of the music comes from Joey Jordison (Drums, he's absolutely amazing), Jim Root and Mick Thomson on guitars, Paul Gray on Bass and Corey Taylor on vocals. Chris and Shawn (The Clown) also play a big role as percussionists, adding the tribal feel and doing some amazing on-stage performances. So, as a whole, Slipknot is, for my standards, a fantastic metal band, with influences from death, thrash and heavy metal, with new elements and an all-around aggressive and metal sound. So I don't care if they are catalogued as "Nu Metal", because I know they don't represent what is commonly associated to the term "Nu Metal".

And besides, where else can you find a band with 9 guys who can kick Linkin Park's ass any day (although anyone can do that )
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09.11.2006 - 09:05
Mega-Slayer
I just dont like the fact as some mentioned already,that most nu-metal and metal-core fans don't know of or appreciate good talented Death,Thrash,Black and Prog, bands.I myself have grown up with both and have never cared for the genres,except of course when I was 10 and 11,I liked Korn,limp dick and Slipcock,being I did not known of such talented bands as Death,Savatage,Dream Theater,Testament,Megadeth,Dissection and So forth.I would say that almost all of my friends thought nu-metal was the greatest throughout Middle-School and now in High School metal-core,and I have tried to help and persuade them to get into good bands,but they are to easily brutalized,when I put in Deicide,Morbid Angel,Malevolent Creation,Suffocation and even Megadeth and Slayer.My only friend who can handle the intesity of REAL metal is Alex,who loves Slayer,and now I have hooked to Malevolent Creation and Deicide.
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Intestinally Punctured Smurf
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09.11.2006 - 13:08
Elijah
Dance, bitch!
Written by ThunderAxe1989 on 05.11.2006 at 16:00

If Nu-Metal is a part of Metal then howcome Nu-Metallers have never heard of actual Metal bands outside of the Thrash genre


Thrash was the most popular movement before nu-metal. Heavy was circulated more via TV and the like, but thrash drew more attention.

This is how I see it, anyway.
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11.11.2006 - 15:21
Remus
@iaberis Korn and Slipknot tablature amazes you? Funny, when i saw the tabs i was like :"Wait, so you just play this riff over and over again?"
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11.11.2006 - 20:36
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
Written by Remus on 11.11.2006 at 15:21

@iaberis Korn and Slipknot tablature amazes you? Funny, when i saw the tabs i was like :"Wait, so you just play this riff over and over again?"


And this from someone who has Children of Bodom amongst his favourite bands.
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Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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11.11.2006 - 21:21
Remus
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.11.2006 at 20:36

Written by Remus on 11.11.2006 at 15:21

@iaberis Korn and Slipknot tablature amazes you? Funny, when i saw the tabs i was like :"Wait, so you just play this riff over and over again?"


And this from someone who has Children of Bodom amongst his favourite bands.


Hmmmm, i think you'll agree Children of Bodom's riffs are just "a little bit" more complicted than Korn riffs. Anyway, it's ok to come out of the "nu-metal" closet. If Korn and Slipknot riffs rock your socks then it's OK!
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12.11.2006 - 06:45
Darth Satanious
Post Destroyer
Written by Guest on 04.11.2006 at 16:52

But you know what really pisses me off? Seeing all those articles, purpose of which is to convince people to accept Nu Metal.


These articles have all the validity in the World. Nu Metal and now Metalcore are being bashed senselessly to the point of exhaustion and I see no wrong in trying to make people to finally understand that Nu Metal is a subgenre of Metal as any other subgenre and that it should be respected as such. Differing from other genres, Nu Metal and Metalcore are discriminated without reason, justifiable reasons.

There are Metalheads that do not like genres such as Power Metal, Black Metal, Folk Metal, etc. and, differing from Nu Metal, they do not go to those bands' threads to bash their genres. However, it is so much fun to go to Nu Metal bands' threads and bash the genre endlessly. What is the reason for this? Perhaps, is it because of some ignorant fans that the genre gardens after the media exposure it possesses? If it is so, ignorant fans are everywhere, within every Metal subgenre and this thread sadly shows some of them and the fans associated to a genre are not a reason for judging its music. Also, could it be for the media exposure that the genre has itself? None of those aspects have anything to do with the music itself. Also, if fans that swear that Metal starts and ends with Korn get on your nerves, then direct your cannons towards those idiots in specific and not towards the subgenre and the bands within it.

Do you believe otherwise? Then, tell me what justifies bashing Nu Metal.

***The following paragraphs are directed towards the people whose argument is the one I am putting within quotes, not necessarily someone in specific:

"Nu Metal is made for the masses; they are a commercialized version of Metal."

Really, what made you believe this? Where is the proof that all bands within this genre play with this sole goal? Do you read people's minds in order to know what they think and the intentions behind their music? No, you don't, and any of those ideas that circle around your head (which take space away for other possible flies to have more fun along with the rest that fly and mate within that hallow space that is supposed to contain a brain in the head of yours) are nothing but sorry assumptions that have not the least veracity in them.

You people must learn to separate assumptions and opinions from facts or else you will remain drowned in your own ignorance. Of course, it is wise to consider all the possibilities when evaluating thoughts and ideas, for example: considering the possibility that X and Y band do not have the compromise for Music in comparison to other bands and musicians. However, you must also consider the possibility that the music these controversial bands come up with could come directly from their hearts too. Then, how to finally choose between these two possibilities and eliminate one of them? If you know of any other way rather than having the band members acknowledging their lack of compromise with their music then tell me which one. They will never acknowledge that they make music for money or that they sold out, you say? Then, the real intentions behind their music will remain in the dark for all of us. Nevertheless, if bands hide the intentions behind their music when in reality they make it for the sole purpose of making money (in a hypothetical case) then it is no excuse to make assumptions and crucify bands without proof. Our wisdom as human beings comes from realizing how ignorant we are and once Socrates said: "The more you know, the more you realize that you know nothing".

"Nu Metal is simplistic and lacks of talent"

Only in your wet dreams that is. As I have said so many times before, Nu Metal has very talented musicians within their ranks as any other subgenre of Metal does; Nu Metal has very mediocre musicians as any other subgenre of Metal does. Which genre has worst bands than the other? I cannot tell for I haven't made nor seen any survey about it in order to be sure and considering a band as mediocre would come to be entirely subjective to begin with. Moreover, there are, for example, even more talented drummers within Nu Metal than several bands within the Gothic Metal and Folk Metal ranks.

Speaking of the Folk Metal subgenre, there are bands in that genre that only come up with a stupid violin melody, some guitar distortion in the background, some lame drum patterns, and some vocals making choruses to keep it all together and that is all, that is all the complexity of that music. Still, you have fans from that genre that literally cum in an orgasmic frenzy over such bands as sexually repressed teenagers. Ironically, they swear that the complexity of the music goes far from any Nu Metal band. I have nothing against the subgenre of Folk and I even like it pretty much but facts remain as facts regardless of opinions and this should be pointed out when some fans want to raise these bands supposed prowess over bands of Nu Metal when in reality they can be as simplistic or even more simplistic than the Nu Metal counterparts. If you don't like Nu Metal, fine, have it your way but don't try to invent some sad excuses of justifications that do not have the less veracity; just stick with reasons of musical taste.

Furthermore, let us play with the idea that Nu Metal is indeed less talented than other Metal subgenres, is this enough reason for rejecting the genre? If so, then some bands from Power, Heavy, Thrash, Folk, etc. come to be as worthless as Nu Metal in front of bands such as Necrophagist, Dream Theater, Decapitated, Coroner, and all those bands that play far more technical and musically exceeding music. In fact, we would only listen to one band and being it the most technical and musically exceeding one; the rest would only be crap if we are to follow these rules.

"Nu Metal doesn't have passion and feeling behind the music."

Considering music to have passion and dedication behind it is a conclusion to which every listener falls into, regardless of genres, for this is a conclusion totally opinionated, completely subjective.

Written by Guest on 04.11.2006 at 16:52

Anyway, the idea of metal was to reject the modern lifestyle. That's what metal community was built upon. If we are to accept metal being influenced by today's life style, then we can just as well say bye bye to metal counter culture. In truth, I really can see that happening. Even on these boards it seems to be a common idea to label those who reject mainstream world as "narrow minded".


The idea of Metal was that you say?You make it seem as if Metal was coldly configured and meant to be this way. If so, then tell me, how do you know it? Where is the evidence? Do you think that fans of Metal said: "Yeah dude let us group and rebel against the media."? Metal is expression and if what Metal came to be something which the media does not favor must have been an result of Metal instead of its purpose.

Pioneering Metal bands used to sell as much records as any Nu Metal band back in the day and still they stay strong in sells these days. If Nu Metal is going to be considered as less for being more accessible in its style, then those Folk, Gothic, Melodic Death, Power, Heavy, etc. subgenres are as worthless as Nu Metal in front of the most brutal and extreme genres of Metal.

Written by Guest on 05.11.2006 at 17:29

Written by iaberis on 05.11.2006 at 13:47

I've seen other sites that ban every band that is close to Nu from their database. And all that for the reasons mentioned above. I've seen people saying "I hate Nu-Metal" just because they heard that saying from another guy!
Are you sure? I thought they ban bands that go under Nu Metal and xCore, because such bands belong to rock/punk, rather than metal. Opinion I follow myself.


Nu Metal bands rely heavily in Post-Thrash Metal after the mighty Pantera's influence. Check out those groovy riffs in some of Slipknot's songs.

Written by Guest on 06.11.2006 at 00:53

Oh for crying out loud!
http://www.metal-archives.com/guidelines.php
Read the goddamn rules of their site. They have a good reason for forbidding such bands and they explain it rather well.

But anyway, I took a look at this wiki article and oh the surprise...
You say Metal-Archives forbids Nu Metal bands because they aren't traditional enough? Quote from wiki:
"The site runners have standards which exclude some bands that are considered by some sites (such as VH1, Allmusic and others) as founding and definitive heavy metal acts, such as Led Zeppelin and Blue Cheer; the website's runners consider these acts as simply hard rock, despite their influence and history. However, there are some websites specialising in rock and metal music that, like Encyclopaedia Metallum, also exclude Led Zeppelin or just mention Led Zeppelin as "hard rock""
So apparently Led Zeppelin aren't traditional enough too! Mighty odd, I would say.

Or, the site owners actually state truth when they say that they only accept bands which are more metal than rock/punk.


I don't know if you guys skipped this or just didn't want to see it in the Wikipedia article about Metal Archives:

Additionally, there are some non-metal bands featured on the site that are considered to be part of the metal scene despite not being metal themselves (usually dark ambient and folk bands, examples being Mortiis, Elend, Autumn Tears, Stille Volk, etc). These bands are selected by the moderators in an admittedly arbitrary fashion, and their submission by normal users is discouraged.

Is there something wrong if they accept those bands within their menu? Of course not I would say, but if they want to assure that their list of bands stay true to what Metal is and rejects bands from other musical forms that deviate from Metal then there is a problem.
Then, bands that are Nu Metal are not considered to be added when these ones are added. Also, it is pretty funny that they associate Mortiis with Metal but they don't accept Led Zeppelin after their importance in Metal's formation.

I couldn't care less if Metal Archives adds Nu Metal or not, the same goes for Metal Storm, but if they claim that they stay true to Metal and add those bands to their lines it is time to explode their dream bubble and take them out of their self-constructed Matrix.

Written by Guest on 06.11.2006 at 21:01


Oh and I forgot to say this: Wake up, Metallica wanted to reach wider audience just to get more money. Personally I prefer the new hard rock Metallica over the old thrash metal, but that won't blur my perception of what they're doing.


This is what I am talking about. You write this with the appositeness of one who owns the truth about what he says. How do you know that Metallica took that direction with their music with the sole though of making money? How do you know that there was no other reason behind their change of musical direction? As far as I know, this could be a possibility but also it could have been that they just wanted to take this new direction, they allowed the influence from their old favorite bands to take form in their music, they were getting influenced by bands of the Rock stardom of the time, and other possibilities that may not come to my head right now.

"You see that line on the horizon, that line in which both sea and heaven unite at the distance. After that line there is nothing, just a precipice where boats fall and are never to be seen again after they trespass the limit of our square World. Yes, our World is square." This conversation could have easily taken place during the pre-Renaissance periods and shows how ignorant people can turn out when they try to pass assumptions as facts. Before Christopher Columbus got to prove that the World was indeed round (I know that Vikings are said to have gotten to the New World prior to Columbus), the general thought of people was that the World was square. Likewise, people who claim that Nu Metal bands and bands that change their style only play for money fall to this conclusion just because what they see as success and media exposure makes them believe that these aspects related to the genre are enough to pass their assumptions as facts. Thus, it all comes to be the effort of human beings in grasping whatever makes sense to them and pass it as truth in order to avoid the real nature of their ignorance. When something cannot be proven, the ideal step to take is to formulate theories but never pass them as facts; don't you learn this in third grade?

Written by Sunioj on 06.11.2006 at 21:33


Not to mention, I find most nu metal bands preying on their fans with trends like anti war lyrics to reach liberal crowds, plus the endless corporate whoring makes me loose interest in any MTV band.


Most Nu Metal bands write about anti-war themes, you say? Give me the number of bands who do versus the number of bands that don't in order to prove this. Then, writing about Satanism, Medieval Times, Dragons, Violence/Gore, Vikings, Odinism, etc. does not come to be trendy, right? Even when these topics are being used until they are burnt to death by bands within Metal? Also, just for the record, Nu Metal's lyrics do not circle solely around war themes.

Written by Guest on 09.11.2006 at 05:18


Another good reason why I think Slipknot is metal is because they believe in what metal has always said to stand for; being against a system. Slipknot's message comes across as a message of unconformity with many specific aspects of society (instead of just being "against the man"), such as abuse of power, discrimination of people who think differently to main-stream society, conformity in the face of injustice, among many other subjects. Slipknot fans are named "maggots", conveying the idea that they are many, they are all alike and they are considered as sub-humans. And Slipknot are "The Pulse of the Maggots", the voice of these many people who feel they are not heard.


The classification of a band in Metal comes from the style of music they play instead of lyrical themes and attitudes. Of course, there are some attitudes and lyrical themes that characterize Metal but it does not limit the bands within this musical genre.

Written by Remus on 11.11.2006 at 21:21

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 11.11.2006 at 20:36

Written by Remus on 11.11.2006 at 15:21

@iaberis Korn and Slipknot tablature amazes you? Funny, when i saw the tabs i was like :"Wait, so you just play this riff over and over again?"


And this from someone who has Children of Bodom amongst his favourite bands.


Hmmmm, i think you'll agree Children of Bodom's riffs are just "a little bit" more complicted than Korn riffs. Anyway, it's ok to come out of the "nu-metal" closet. If Korn and Slipknot riffs rock your socks then it's OK!


Because he defends Nu Metal it doesn't mean that he necessarily likes it; he is just pointing out how you are trying to undervalue bands whose style may not be as far musically demanding speaking from a band you listen to and thus canceling your whole argument. Can't you manage more than two ideas at one time? Defending Nu Metal = liking Nu Metal

This is part of the problem with these Metal fans who bash Nu Metal endlessly: they cannot handle more than two ideas at the time, it seems.
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Christless
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12.11.2006 - 07:01
iaberis
Advice Troll
:-O
At the begining I thought this was a spam...
but now I've read it, I think it's the most accurate and well-answering post to this thread, this is gonna shut some mouths!!!
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Bitch! Please
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12.11.2006 - 10:27
Opium Magnet
Account deleted
Some of those quoted statements are implied by a few of the bands at least, as well as the distribution of Nu metal cd's, hence why they are branded or also recognised as "mallcore", simply because you can see their cd's in large, commercial stores and this includes those "family-friendly" environment kind stores not to mention.

Wow, I hope that made some sense, I might rewrite that to make my point clearer, but I think you get the idea.
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12.11.2006 - 12:04
Darth Satanious
Post Destroyer
Written by Guest on 12.11.2006 at 10:27

Some of those quoted statements are implied by a few of the bands at least, as well as the distribution of Nu metal cd's, hence why they are branded or also recognised as "mallcore", simply because you can see their cd's in large, commercial stores and this includes those "family-friendly" environment kind stores not to mention.

Wow, I hope that made some sense, I might rewrite that to make my point clearer, but I think you get the idea.


If you meet this girl and you become good friends and this one time the chick offers you to accompany her to her apartment, it is possible that you will imply that she is offering you to have sex with her. Now, it is also possible that she is just looking for your company in her way to the apartment. You perceive what she means with that invitation but you cannot be sure if she is looking to have sex with you. It is more like an idea you create out of your own imagination. At times you can be proven right: if at the end she wants to have sex with you, other times you were just drifting away in your dreams, and other times you will never know if it is true what you imagine.

Now, I don't see what you believe that Nu Metal bands are implying here. If the bands hit the shelves of big stores it only means that they are selling many records and thus have the acceptance of many people. That is the only message I am receiving.
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Christless
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12.11.2006 - 12:25
Opium Magnet
Account deleted
What they imply is based upon my perception as well as others in this community, some share similar views in this case.
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12.11.2006 - 17:44
Skald
Account deleted
@Darth Satanious:
"Do you believe otherwise? Then, tell me what justifies bashing Nu Metal."
Simple. Metalheads who don't accept Nu Metal generally have a better appreciation of metal 'brotherhood'. This might sound like it has no logical connection, but actually communities which accept Nu Metal, take influence of the popular society, ergo lose touch with the 'outiders' world. To you it may sound like a good thing, but in my opinion there should always be a place where those who "don't belong" to popular culture could feel at home.
Today difference between metalheads and popular culture blurs and disappears. Metal community changes from counter culture to simple sub-culture. There's no longer anything that could attract outsiders and as such it loses 'fresh' and 'unique' touch. There's no longer anything special about metal. Just some dudes headbanging. That's all there is to it.
The breed of metalheads is dying. Instead of laid back people we have band of people who insist on being politically correct on their every step. "Don't bash this, don't bash that. Keep yourself open to popular influence and turn the other cheek when it destroys what you love so much". You like it this way? Fine. But not everyone does.


"This is what I am talking about. You write this with the appositeness of one who owns the truth about what he says. How do you know that Metallica took that direction with their music with the sole though of making money?"
What you said there also is what you're talking about. You actually assumed I have no reason to say this, didn't you? But proof that this is Metallica's aim is so obvious that it hurts. Or maybe you somehow didn't notice their change of attitude towards money?


"I don't know if you guys skipped this or just didn't want to see it in the Wikipedia article about Metal Archives:"
I don't totally agree with those bands being added there, but I don't bash them for doing so either. It's their site and they can do whatever they want.
As for staying away from true metal this way, from my experience the bands they add this way are rather borderline and usually their members are connected with metal in one way or another. I know this is the case for Dargaard, Piorun, Perunwit, Fejd or Of The Wand & The Moon. I don't know about those bands listed by wiki, so I cannot comment on that.

"The idea of Metal was that you say?You make it seem as if Metal was coldly configured and meant to be this way. If so, then tell me, how do you know it?"
Bacause I took a look at history of metal community and how it developed. Such mentality evolved together with evolution of metal from the rock music. It was also response to the wave of commercial music (back then music commercialisation wasn't as normal as it is today, so it caused strong responses).
You made another assumption, didn't you?

Also, I'm interested in how you simplify everything to make a point. Or do you actually believe the world is that simple? I mean, sure - let's put Iron Maiden next to any Nu Metal band. Obviously if both earn a lot of money, it must be from same reasons, right?

But no, okay. Let's be politically correct. Nu Metal bands are so popular because they're extremely talented.
I'll also add that it was only Metallica's inspiration that turned them to the new sound. And it's nothing more than a coincidence that it happened in the same period of time when Lars started bitching about money.
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12.11.2006 - 22:37
-MeTaLlIc-OwL-
Account deleted
Nu Metal still sucks anyway, its mediocre, lacks of complexity and power, those are good reasons to hate it.
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13.11.2006 - 10:19
Doc Godin
Obnoxious
Written by Guest on 04.11.2006 at 16:52

Let me get this straight:
You actually believe Nu Metal is hated so much, because it incorporates elements that weren't present in the metal music before and metalheads don't like fresh ideas being brought to the genre?

I'd have to ask why no one's bashing bands like Korpiklaani or Cruachan then. Folk Metal is as new as Nu Metal and it also incorporates elements which are pretty much fresh to the metal music. And don't tell me metal and folk communities are anywhere near same.

Now I enjoy music like metal (heavy, power, viking, folk, melodeath, gothic, doom, glam), rock (hard, soft, alternative, modern, folk), traditional (folk, neofolk, darkfolk, shanties), classical, some darkwave and some blues. So I do believe I keep myself open to various forms of music. Likewise, I did check out several nu metal bands. And you know what? The more chances I gave to such bands, the more I disliked the genre. I really won't help it that it annoys my ears even more than raw black metal.
But I won't say that this makes me hate Nu Metal. It's just another form of music that I don't enjoy. No reason to hate it.
But you know what really pisses me off? Seeing all those articles, purpose of which is to convince people to accept Nu Metal. The way I see it, you promote this form of music just because it's labeled as metal. Quite frankly, I don't see this as being opened to new forms of music, but listening to something just because it's "metal".

Anyway, the idea of metal was to reject the modern lifestyle. That's what metal community was built upon. If we are to accept metal being influenced by today's life style, then we can just as well say bye bye to metal counter culture. In truth, I really can see that happening. Even on these boards it seems to be a common idea to label those who reject mainstream world as "narrow minded".


Owned.

@iaberis, just because a band isnt nu metal, doesnt mean it cant be 'new' metal. As previously stated, not every band that isnt nu metal isnt trying to immitate 80s metal. Im not sure if thats the message you were trying to send, but the wording came out that way.

good attempt though.
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"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
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13.11.2006 - 16:24
Fass
Account deleted
Written by Guest on 12.11.2006 at 22:37

Nu Metal still sucks anyway, its mediocre, lacks of complexity and power, those are good reasons to hate it.


I thought we were trying to avoid comments like this

Oh well, unargumentative haters are everywhere I guess...

BTW: the only alleged "Nu Metal" band I like is Slipknot... All other bands like Ill Nino, Linkin Park and that sort of stuff is not my taste...
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13.11.2006 - 16:56
4look4rd
The Sasquatch
Im gonna explain:
WHY WE METALHEADS HATE NU-METAL part 100000000000001
Nu metal combines the 2 generes that all metalheads hate, PUNK and RAP, with cheap/cheese/lame/repeted riffs, and ofcorce crapy lyrics.
Nu metal is like adding the cheeseness of punk, the repetition rap, + crepy lyrics
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13.11.2006 - 17:17
Promonex
Cathemeral
Written by 4look4rd on 13.11.2006 at 16:56

Im gonna explain:
WHY WE METALHEADS HATE NU-METAL part 100000000000001
Nu metal combines the 2 generes that all metalheads hate, PUNK and RAP, with cheap/cheese/lame/repeted riffs, and ofcorce crapy lyrics.
Nu metal is like adding the cheeseness of punk, the repetition rap, + crepy lyrics

LOL, that actually made me laugh!
You haven't really read ANYTHING in this entire topic, have you?

And that's why every metalhead hates bands like Slayer, Tankard, Nuclear Assault, Stormtroopers of Death and Suicidal Tendencies, coz they are all more or less punk influenced (and the latter even uses hip hop influences), which is hated by all of us metalheads, right?

And dude, you're a Manowar fan, I don't really think you have the legitimation to blame others of being cheesy
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All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu... This is the truth! This is my belief! ...At least for now.
- The Mystery of Life, Vol. 841 Ch. 26
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13.11.2006 - 21:04
necrovamp
Think ill stick to the 'acient bands' as the author describes them, notice they have been around since 1970s and can still fill stadiums. Any way personaly i despise nu metal, but if people like it and listen to it it's up to them, i cant stop them by ranting about it on here can I.
all i can say is at least it isnt pure hip hop or rap or whatever, at least itits been tainted by metal, Metal is spreading and soon it shall rule supreme!

Long Live Metal
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'I'd rather die than go to heaven' - Murderface
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13.11.2006 - 21:32
4look4rd
The Sasquatch
Written by Promonex on 13.11.2006 at 17:17

Written by 4look4rd on 13.11.2006 at 16:56

Im gonna explain:
WHY WE METALHEADS HATE NU-METAL part 100000000000001
Nu metal combines the 2 generes that all metalheads hate, PUNK and RAP, with cheap/cheese/lame/repeted riffs, and ofcorce crapy lyrics.
Nu metal is like adding the cheeseness of punk, the repetition rap, + crepy lyrics

LOL, that actually made me laugh!
You haven't really read ANYTHING in this entire topic, have you?

And that's why every metalhead hates bands like Slayer, Tankard, Nuclear Assault, Stormtroopers of Death and Suicidal Tendencies, coz they are all more or less punk influenced (and the latter even uses hip hop influences), which is hated by all of us metalheads, right?

And dude, you're a Manowar fan, I don't really think you have the legitimation to blame others of being cheesy


I did read some, however I got really bored. I think that WE are metalheads, and even if you dont want to admit we all are closeminded, and thats a good thing, we dont want our favorite kind of music to be converted in a "money machine", and also we dont want posers do listen it. Thats also why people hate metalheads like us.
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14.11.2006 - 01:44
-MeTaLlIc-OwL-
Account deleted
i still hate nu metal lol, i was a nu metal listener few years ago, but then i realized is crappy, real crappy, repetitive, and all the other stuff 4look4er said. It is anyway you look at it, bad music. Good music does not repeat it self, has a level of complexity and have a hard time writing lyrics. So. NU METAL SUCKS! Get it already.
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14.11.2006 - 01:58
Promonex
Cathemeral
Written by Guest on 14.11.2006 at 01:44

Good music does not repeat it self, has a level of complexity and have a hard time writing lyrics.

You just perfectly described the opposite of "Met" by Equilibrium, "Beer Beer" by Korpiklaani and about every Tankard song. EVERY (yes, that's all-caps) nu metal and emo band has more variety, more complexity and more interesting lyrics. Or do you really think lyrics like "Fistfucking Her Decomposed Cadaver" are unrepetetive, complex or in any other way hard to write?
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All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu... This is the truth! This is my belief! ...At least for now.
- The Mystery of Life, Vol. 841 Ch. 26
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14.11.2006 - 06:55
-MeTaLlIc-OwL-
Account deleted
haha, thats a good joke, emo and nu metal being complex. HAHAHA
and i dont really listen to black metal and goregrind, i like a lot of prog, thrash and death, and some doom. anyway, is way more complex than emo and nu, dont know whats up ur head.
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14.11.2006 - 07:29
Mega-Slayer
You both have good points,I mean Manowar and Tankard have some really dumb and simplistic music,but damn Metalcore and nu-metal suck dick,I would know I have grown up with them.When I was at my friend josh's b-day party,he played a Bullet For My Valentine album all the way through,and boy was it the biggest most unoriginal and repetitive piece of shit.I looked them up,and they look like fucking posers,they are trying to be gothic and wanksta's at the same time,and that is how all metalcore fans try to dress now.
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Intestinally Punctured Smurf
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14.11.2006 - 07:29
Promonex
Cathemeral
@OwL: Dude, there's not only black and white to some people. I don't know what it's like for you, but if I say I like Kataklysm better than Vader, then that doesn't mean that I hate Vader. But why the fuck am I trying to explain you anything, you have your opinion, will despise anything that doesn't conform your opinion and will use any measure to slag those others off without noticing how stupid your arguments are - Equilibrium is Viking Metal, Korpiklaani is Folk Metal and Tankard is Thrash Metal, the genre you like so much. And even if you don't listen to these bands, you don't despise them the way you despise Nu Metal even though they absolutely match your criteria for bad music.
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All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu... This is the truth! This is my belief! ...At least for now.
- The Mystery of Life, Vol. 841 Ch. 26
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14.11.2006 - 07:33
Promonex
Cathemeral
Written by Mega-Slayer on 14.11.2006 at 07:29

I looked them up,and they look like fucking posers,they are trying to be gothic and wanksta's at the same time,and that is how all metalcore fans try to dress now.

Ahhh, now we are back to that argument: "I don't like their looks, so their music is crap"
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All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu... This is the truth! This is my belief! ...At least for now.
- The Mystery of Life, Vol. 841 Ch. 26
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14.11.2006 - 07:39
Mega-Slayer
Written by Promonex on 14.11.2006 at 07:33

Written by Mega-Slayer on 14.11.2006 at 07:29

I looked them up,and they look like fucking posers,they are trying to be gothic and wanksta's at the same time,and that is how all metalcore fans try to dress now.

Ahhh, now we are back to that argument: "I don't like their looks, so their music is crap"

Well,I know you cant judge someone by their looks,but I also stated why I didn't like their musical talents,becuse its unoriginal,boring,repetitive and lame.Therefore it appeals to people who dont know REAL metal.
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Intestinally Punctured Smurf
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14.11.2006 - 10:18
Promonex
Cathemeral
Each genre has its good and bad representators. Let's face it, bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan, Burst or The Red Chord are musically far superior to Tankard, Manowar and Korpiklaani. But metalheads don't even acknowledge the first mentioned bands and continue bashing them for the sole reason that they play metalcore instead. "Unoriginal, boring, repetetive and lame" are only the latter mentioned bands and whoever has listened to the first mentioned will agree that those certainly don't match your prejudices of metalcore. The truth is you just bash metalcore and nu metal coz everyone does! I've been like that as well some years ago and I've grown up to see that each genre has good and bad bands and that talent deserves to be acknowledged, whether you like the music or not (I personally can't stand hardcore at all and only very few metalcore). Just like nu metal and metalcore have become trendy, it has become trendy to bash those two genres. If "being against the system" really is the sole purpose of metal as someone else stated in this thread, then one has to ask himself whether he really is against the system if he just does what all the others do.
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All life begins with Nu and ends with Nu... This is the truth! This is my belief! ...At least for now.
- The Mystery of Life, Vol. 841 Ch. 26
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14.11.2006 - 19:16
Mega-Slayer
Written by Promonex on 14.11.2006 at 10:18

Each genre has its good and bad representators. Let's face it, bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan, Burst or The Red Chord are musically far superior to Tankard, Manowar and Korpiklaani. But metalheads don't even acknowledge the first mentioned bands and continue bashing them for the sole reason that they play metalcore instead. "Unoriginal, boring, repetetive and lame" are only the latter mentioned bands and whoever has listened to the first mentioned will agree that those certainly don't match your prejudices of metalcore. The truth is you just bash metalcore and nu metal coz everyone does! I've been like that as well some years ago and I've grown up to see that each genre has good and bad bands and that talent deserves to be acknowledged, whether you like the music or not (I personally can't stand hardcore at all and only very few metalcore). Just like nu metal and metalcore have become trendy, it has become trendy to bash those two genres. If "being against the system" really is the sole purpose of metal as someone else stated in this thread, then one has to ask himself whether he really is against the system if he just does what all the others do.


I have heard plenty of nu-metal and metal-core,like I said I grew up with it.So I have the right to judge what I have heard plenty of.I used to always listen to Limp-Bizkit,Korn,Slipnot,Godsmack and Disturbed,until I listened to great thrash bands and death bands,and then I realized the nu-metal bands had re-used some of their riffs and their shit was very generic.
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Intestinally Punctured Smurf
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14.11.2006 - 23:59
PrettyMao
Whoa whoa whoa!!!

People better settle the fuck down!!

You know the arguement is getting out of hand when people start saying that self-proclaimed Kings of Metal are lame and repetitive and a bunch of poseurs.... soon people will be saying The Metal God is Gay because he wears leather chaps... (he is gay though, but not because he wears leather chaps)..

But what I really don't like is people assuming that because I dislike nu-metal I must be following the trends... Well screw that! I have been hating on all types of music genres for years. Before they were popular, while they were popular and after they were popular... I just like to hate...

Speaking of repetitive music and shitty lyrics, try country pop music! Jumping Jesus on a pogostick! (who can name that reference?) that shit is horrible! with a capital H!


You know, this debate wasn't so bad until someone dropped the Emo-bomb.... why bring that into this? Who wants to hear about some pencil-necked geek complain that he can't get a girlfriend because he spent all his time playing nintendo at Gramma's house?

I hate emo!
I hate nu-metal!
I hate country pop!
I hate free form jazz!
I hate Celine Dion! (although I can sing along to most of her catalogue)
I hate punk!
I hate J-lo!
I hate drivers that don't know what to do at a four-way stop!

and I fucking hate "Weekend at Bernie's"!! That was a fucking horrible movie! I want that hour and half of my life back!!!


HATE! HATE! HATE! HATE! HATE! HATE! HATE! HATE!



p.s. but I like your mom, she's cool...
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The Mao loves you all!!!

**KISS**KISS**
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