A Rant About The Irrelevance Of Arguing Over Music


Written by: Thryce
Published: 09.06.2010


The funniest social critic of all time once argued that "thou shall keep thy religion to thyself" should be one of the Ten Commandments. If you change "religion" with the more general "beliefs", you have one of the most elementary wisdoms ever spoken. Why do people have to prove their right on what they like to absurd extents? Here are a few of my thoughts on the subject.


Just last weekend one of my longtime friends, who clearly has an open-minded taste in music, announced in his Facebook status he was studying for his exams "Limp Bizkit-style". This struck me as odd. No one of the sane people I know likes Limp Bizkit, let alone listens to them while studying. And even if they would, they sure as hell wouldn't let the whole world know on Facebook.


To put this into perspective a bit, at the time Limp Bizkit released those two infamous albums (they're absolute shit, but still everybody knows about them, weird huh?) me and my friends were young teenagers that were still easily influenced by popular, commercial, mainstream music. We didn't know any better, and we certainly didn't have any internet yet so we didn't quite know what else was there.




Confession: we were only thirteen, but we did it all for the nookie.



Back then, Limp Bizkit were totally hot, so of course we bought those now crappy releases. But soon we found out about the mistake we made, gradually discovered other and better stuff, moved away from those childhood sins and forgot about the band altogether. Then the internet became available for every single nutcase out there and suddenly everyone's hatred towards this atrocity was available for everyone. The result: nobody would even admit he used to have/still has these abominations in their CD collection.

(Pretty sure my friend only has a limited idea of the massive amount of internet flame wars, trash talk and endless arguing Limp Bizkit has generated over the years - probably because he doesn't give a shit about those things, which is exactly why he's one of my friends.)


Oh and by the way. To all the people still living in 2002, expressing your dislike of Limp Bizkit was already old years ago. "Limp Bizkit suck!" Yeah, we got that. Fascinating opinion. What else is new?


Moving on. You can like every piece of shit classified as music you want, but why can nobody else? Every band you like is the best band on the whole planet, on that we'll all agree. But why is it that everyone who thinks otherwise or likes other bands that are nowhere close to your favorite bands is plain wrong? Why do you have to call them out on a subjective taste that is different than your own? Is it because of some sort of superiority feeling? Either way, brutal truth: it's totally pointless.




Opeth?? Really?? Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, uh, your opinion, man.



And why is it that you immediately have to insult people with another opinion? Why is it that people waste so much of their valuable time on flame wars? "Metallica is tha best, shithead", says monkey 1. "No Megadeth is tha best, fucknoodle", says monkey 2. "Fuck 'em both, they're long past their prime, and you're a doucheosaurus for even listening to them", says monkey 3. Seriously, who has time for this? I mean, I got better stuff to do; like checking out good bands. Silly monkeys.


There's this kid in my neighborhood who wears All Shall Perish shirts and listens to St. Anger. The guy has a horrible taste in music - obviously. Big deal, that's no reason to spit on him and beat him up. You just have to accept the fact people have other opinions, tastes and preferences, and live with it (an idea a lot of us are very uncomfortable with).




Live with this?? Yeah, that ain't gonna happen any time soon.



Seriously, at the end of the day, the only thing that really matters is what you like, right? Leave other people alone with what you think they should think. People can have any opinion about your favorite band, just as much as you can have any opinion on the next guy's favorite band. At the end of the day, it all comes down to your CD collection/hard drive stored with tons of downloaded music you want to be buried with. Obviously, my friend didn't give a shit about what you think. As long as he could enjoy his study afternoon in complete "Limp Bizkit-style".

Moral of the story: whatever, let the haters hate and get over it already.




Whatever happened to the whatever spirit?



But then - and here's a very interesting twist - why is it that as soon as everyone else picks up on your favorite band and agrees with you, you start liking them less and even call them "sell-outs"? Hating a band just because they've become popular is purely a matter of snobbism. Just like giving up on what used to be one of your favorite bands because they're "known by the general public now" is a desperate attempt at maintaining an elite status. Congratulations, you can play with the kvlt kids now. But kvlt kids can't play with each other because they alone can score the points.


The answer to all these questions? It's typically human, I guess. And nobody can blame you for being human. But somewhere it's also downright disgusting. Again, the main problem I have with humanity in general is the enforcement of one's own right; whether it's musical preferences, political views or religion in general. It all comes down to a matter of controlling others by feeding them your own point of view (just like Carlin said). My solution? Be even more egocentric than you already are on this point. I mean, fuck what everyone else thinks, as long as *I* like it, it's good enough, right? Right? Unfortunately, "each to his own" is a lesson humanity will never learn...


So yeah, bottom line, your favorite band still sucks big time. What are you gonna do about it, bitch?



 


Comments

Comments: 60   Visited by: 309 users
09.06.2010 - 15:02
Marcel Hubregtse
Grumpy Old Fuck
The Irrelevance Of Writing A Rant About The Irrelevance Of Arguing Over Music
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Member of the true crusade against European Flower Metal

Yesterday is dead and gone, tomorrow is out of sight
Dawn Crosby (r.i.p.)
05.04.1963 - 15.12.1996

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09.06.2010 - 15:55
MeloDeathViking
I agree 100% with this. People just need to care less about what other people think and just go with what they like. I'm didn't stop listening to A7X's last cd because other people said they sucked, I just thought that album was shit, and I'm still willing to admit that City of Evil is an album that I love, and an album that really helped get me into metal. Opinions are subjective, that's why they're opinions!!
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"I am not superstitious, but I'm a little 'stitious." - Michael Scott
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09.06.2010 - 16:01
Roro
True, everyone should understands AND respects that people are different in personality, backgrounds, music and religion. we are all different. and this is the beauty of universe.
and i think the one who is forcing his opinion above all is hasing a serious self confidence issue lol

good article btw
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09.06.2010 - 16:11
ylside
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 09.06.2010 at 15:02

The Irrelevance Of Writing A Rant About The Irrelevance Of Arguing Over Music

My thoughts exactly actually!
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09.06.2010 - 16:14
Got Mayhem?
Oh god...that A7X photo with Portnoy put into it...it just made me want to argue something.
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09.06.2010 - 17:47
Reizenstein
Pfft... typical stuff from someone having Ghost Brigade or Pig Destroyer amongst him favorite bands...

No, bad jokes aside, verry well written. I agree with most of it.
Being that I hang around with people who mostly think anything related to metal in general is trash, I've long since learned to swallow my pride and eliteism when they're frothing about Basshunter and the likes.
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Growl
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09.06.2010 - 19:04
BitterCOld
Gringo
Amusing read. and for the most part i try to refrain from bashing the (clearly inferior) tastes of others, until such a time as they bash either myself or others (with even worse tastes) for our/their respective tastes.

as for megadave vs. selloutica, consider me monkey 3. only i stopped listening to them long before you even contracted a case of the limp bizkit.

the one point i do want to respond most to is in regards to bands we like getting bigger.

i think it's a case by case basis. at least for me it is. if a band significantly alters it's style to make tunes more radio friendly to score a largely fan base, i most likely will "sever the cord" with the band and move on. if a band grows because of hard work, continued touring, and their output remains true to what they started, more power to them.

the aforementioned former thrashers fell into category 1, enslaved is a band which to me falls into category 2. (ok, so their bank accounts are missing probably four or five zeros when compared to Lars')

the biggest issue i have with bands getting bigger and increasing their fanbase is that the newer fans often times just. don't. get. it. they jump on board with the (now cool) band (long after band was in all actuality cool) and don't necessarily understand the culture.

i'm not talking about the guy who wears a A7X shirt to an Opeth show. who cares? his tastes are his, mine are mine.

case in point: PITS. (this might be more North American than European here).

"Pits" have cropped up increasingly in shows beyond hard punk or metal and descended into even the likes of Bush* (I have a great story about that one but i won't digress here)

Exhibit A: SLAYER. Slayer is perhaps too hard for the more "casual" fans that have glommed on to other former Big Four bands. the pit at every show i've been too is exactly the same. Everyone understands pit etiquette. it's a brotherhood of blood, not a UFC match. someone goes down, YOU PICK THEM UP. everyone knows this. everyone understands this. everyone acts accordingly.

Exhibit B: Reel Big Fish. Ska Punk band that exploded on MTV for the amusingly anti-MTV/Radio track "Sell Out"- the biggest joke that entirely too few got. After gaining popularity, the composition of the crowds at their shows changed. (was there before, during, and after)... prompting them to write Thank You For Not Moshing (a/k/a "In The Pit") which open mocks the douchebags in wifebeater t's picking fights and shoving little girls in the crowd. The new crowd didn't get it.

even fashions...

when grunge got big, designer flannel shirts started selling for hundreds of dollars. Ed Fucking Hardy is making t-shirts that sell for $300 ... no, Eddie, punk's not dead, but it's certainly on life support. that's not fucking punk. punk is buying the FEAR: The Record disk in the original longbox, getting a can of spray paint (I used red), a white t-shirt, and ripping the longbox apart to use the provided stencil to make your own fucking FEAR shirt. (feel free to add on some safety pins, if that's your thing).

while i don't (usually. or more than twice a day) advocate violence, i do certainly advocate it against the HardyTards.

so when a band's success results in a growing number of genetic defectives amongst the fanbase of said band, it makes it more difficult to publicly associate yourself as a fan of said band, lest you be associated with the new crowd.

so TL;DR:

when a band gets big(ger) there are basically three outcomes:

1. Band no longer makes music of interest to you. The spark is gone.
2. Band still makes good music, but attracts such a crowd of lions, tigers, and douchebags (oh my!) that you'd rather not be associated with them.
3. Band still makes good music, and (hopefully) has flown enough under the radar where their new fanbase isn't a rabid mob of the chromosomally challenged. when you see someone else sporting their t, your first reaction is "that guy is probably cool" as opposed to fight or flight.


p.s. nice logo.
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get the fuck off my lawn.
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09.06.2010 - 19:09
Panterica
I agree with you man, no one should tell others what's good music and what's not, just like no one should listen to Limp Bizkit .
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Li'ed - Prog-Metal from Jerusalem
https://www.facebook.com/LiedBandMusic
http://lied-band.bandcamp.com/
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09.06.2010 - 19:30
JosipS
I agree with bittercold completely. i have the exact same reactions to bands who "get big". the douchebag fans are the most saddening to me, some sets of fans have completely turned me off bands and even some entire genres. in australia theres a serious lack of judgement of when and where to pit, Slayer? yes, Amon Amarth? sure thing, Sonata Artica? mmmm maybe depending on the song, Pain of Salvation? it seems humanly impossible, yet somehow there were fools doing it.
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09.06.2010 - 22:03
Doc Godin
Obnoxious
True enough. I'm still going to make fun of other peoples tastes though.

As far as bands getting big - I'll throw my 2 cents in with what BitterCOld said. It makes your appreciation of a band look cheaper almost...You were there in the bands detrimental stage, you were one of the people that helped get them to a successful point. Now they release an album that is marketed easily. You've been telling everyone and their dog about this awesome band for years, but no one listened. Suddenly they release a hit that alienates you as a fan, and everyone suddenly starts telling you about this band they discovered and you should check out, and that they've been a fan for ages.

Maybe it is snobbery, but I don't care. It's heartbreaking when that intimate connection with the band is lost because you're now associated with the bandwagon jumpers. At one time it felt like they were writing music just for you, but that is lost a bit when this happens. I think every music geek out there feels the frustration at least a little bit no matter how much they try and suppress such a feeling.
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"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
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09.06.2010 - 22:11
PrettyMao
Shut the fuck up Donnie!
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The Mao loves you all!!!

**KISS**KISS**
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09.06.2010 - 22:31
Vitriolic Hate
Chaos Reaper
Very good article,I agree totally.
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09.06.2010 - 22:38
Darkside Momo
Retired
I'm starting to be worried bout the similarity of thought among the staffers.

Yes, I do think like Thryce, Citter COld, and especially Marcel.
*facepalm*
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"You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you" - Ray Bradbury

"I've lost too many years now
I'm stealing back my soul
I'm awake now"
Abney Park (Letter Between A Little Boy & Himself As An Adult)
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09.06.2010 - 23:22
Vitriolic Hate
Chaos Reaper
Written by JosipS on 09.06.2010 at 19:30

the douchebag fans are the most saddening to me, some sets of fans have completely turned me off bands and even some entire genres.

agreed, Nevermore used to be my top favourite band ( I still like them) but a lot of wanna-be fans started to act like yeah I need a Schecter like Loomis,Loomis=God,I hate the singing & I like only the guitar solos etc. so these douchebags turned me off.
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09.06.2010 - 23:42
Chainer
Witch Hunter Gen
This was amusing, especially the big labowski pic, long live the dude!
but anyway I think its an important point made here but it warrants some clarification.
1st. flamers and trolls going on and on about metallic being shit and mayhem kicking ass (MAYHEMMMM)
is just a was of every conceivable resource that is required to produce such shit.
2nd. there is a distinction between bickering and intelligent discussion and debate about why one band is superior, faster, heaver, etc. than another. Now this being said as long as people realize that by and large musical preference relies heavily on taste and taste alone. Which means that people like music because the just do, and for the most part they dont give a shit what anyone else thinks. However humans are social creatures and they enjoy it when similar minded individuals like music of a similar type. This of course will lead to debate about whos fav is superior or whatever, and this is all good and healthy in the name of music. I dunno maybe I give people too much credit for thier intelligence, but maybe not. Anyway Thryce shouldnt be soo upset, i mean ur staff, and MS hosts yearly awards right? So if the sake of arguing is irrelevant, than the awards are irrelevant, and for that matter the forums are irrelevant too. So either we are all drooling fanboys with nothing better to do than rant about what bands we think are better or the present hypothesis about the irrelevance of musical argument is null and void.
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Written by Dangerboner on 02.11.2009 at 08:11

Everything he doesn't like is metalcore. Britney Spears, Elton John, Michael Moore, and green beans are also metalcore, in case you guys didn't know.
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10.06.2010 - 02:00
Entropic Silence
A7X with Portnoy would sound mean...

Thanks for summing up my views on beliefs in general. Love sharing them, but hate persecution of mine or other people's. I probably attack people too much come to think of it.
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VICTORY!!!!! (They love it in France)
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10.06.2010 - 02:16
Lit. Metalhead
Account deleted
I think Metalheads should love ALL Metal.
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10.06.2010 - 02:52
Ragana
Rawrcat
Written by Guest on 10.06.2010 at 02:16

I think Metalheads should love ALL Metal.

Quite impossible. It's like saying that you should like all sorts of ice-cream if you like it at all.
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10.06.2010 - 04:00
Uirapuru
Liver Failure
Limp Bizkit has decent music
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member of the true crusade against old school heavy metal, early 80s thrash, NWOBHM, traditional doom, first and second wave black metal, old school death metal, US power metal, 70s prog rock and atmospheric doomsludgestoner. o/
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10.06.2010 - 04:19
Ag Fox
Angel No More
<3 you both, Thryce and Bitter COld
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loves 小巫
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10.06.2010 - 05:00
Introspekrieg
Totemic Lust
Two ego defense mechanisms:
Your favorite band sucks - because I have better taste in music and am more intelligent.
My favorite band sold out - because I am a unique individual and special.

People find identity in their beliefs, whether it be art, movies, books, music, sports, politics, etc.

I prefer to believe that most opinions will change as time goes on...
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10.06.2010 - 08:01
Derwood
Great article, Thryce. However, my inner grammar nazi can't let the second sentence slide...

"If you change "religion" with the more general "believes"..."

That should be "beliefs" the plural of the noun "belief" "Believes" is the third person plural present conjugation of the verb "believe."

While I do agree with your premise, it doesn't allow for those of us who simply love to argue for the sake of arguing. Music is such a fantastic topic to argue about because people get so worked up about it so fast.

Once I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken.
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You can't fight evil with a macaroni duck!
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10.06.2010 - 08:52
Doc Godin
Obnoxious
Written by Darkside Momo on 09.06.2010 at 22:38

I'm starting to be worried bout the similarity of thought among the staffers.

Yes, I do think like Thryce, Citter COld, and especially Marcel.
*facepalm*

I bet you all get your periods at the same time too.
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"I got a lot of really good ideas, problem is, most of them suck."
- George Carlin
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10.06.2010 - 09:25
shadowdragonfly1
This was an interesting read , also from BitterCOld's comment. I have never understood the point in all the flaming wars, its like in every entry in youtube music category is full of random insults and "this sucked" and also comments like "this is THE best shit eveeeer".

What i mean is that both kind of comments are unacceptable, the first one for obvious reasons, but the second one also is wrong because apparently it didn't require any type of rationalization, musical appreciation or ever felt the real energy or understood the objective of the song. Ever since i started listening to metal, i was against philosophies "If it sounds heavy, i like it"; this kind of mentality is what leads towards mediocrity, a band "selling out" (whatever that means) and overall mindless music adoption.

I also remember in an Ihsahn interview that he didn't like all the kvlt mentality in metal, because this was leading towards following other's thoughts and rules; which was against the free and wild nature of black metal. I totally agree with this, because you, as a thinking being, should decide for yourself what you like and don't. But in this same philosophy, let others have their beliefs; live and let life, you don't have to agree with everything, but as an alternative: anyone can find a middle ground, agree or disagree, without insulting anyone

PS. i lol'ed at portnoy's picture, and i don't like him playing with them, but probably it will work leading Dream Theater to new grounds in their music, only time will tell...
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10.06.2010 - 11:59
BloodTears
ANA-thema
"So yeah, bottom line, your favorite band still sucks big time. What are you gonna do about it, bitch?"

Perfect way to sum it all up

I really think this article is interesting and it's about time someone said it on an article. We do hear it a lot on MS, luckily, people who rant about the irrelevance of arguing over music but not on such a descriptive analysis.

I want to believe I'm one of the people who tries to stay away from those conflicts and "share the love" but I can be a "fanboy" sometimes too and be touchy and protective of what I like, it's only natural and pointless, afterall!

This is very funny as well, full of wit. But you suck too, okay?
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Written by BloodTears on 19.08.2011 at 18:29

Like you could kiss my ass.
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10.06.2010 - 12:33
albatros
Written by Derwood on 10.06.2010 at 08:01

"Believes" is the third person plural present conjugation of the verb "believe."


They don't believes that.
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10.06.2010 - 17:33
Darkside Momo
Retired
Written by Doc Godin on 10.06.2010 at 08:52

Written by Darkside Momo on 09.06.2010 at 22:38

I'm starting to be worried bout the similarity of thought among the staffers.

Yes, I do think like Thryce, Citter COld, and especially Marcel.
*facepalm*

I bet you all get your periods at the same time too.

Probably.
But you're too young to have any yet, right?
----

"You must stay drunk on writing so reality cannot destroy you" - Ray Bradbury

"I've lost too many years now
I'm stealing back my soul
I'm awake now"
Abney Park (Letter Between A Little Boy & Himself As An Adult)
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10.06.2010 - 19:01
Fat & Sassy!
Nomcat
Honestly, I like arguing about subjective matter to sort of get a different perspective on things. It can be fun and interesting. I mean sure, you can never really FULLY understand one's perspective on anything, but you can try. That being said, I love listening to others opinion when they differ from mine as long as they aren't completely retarded. Someone who throws out shit like, "Your fav band sucks!" is probably an immature moron that needs to get knocked off their high horse.
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"Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
Beauty is not love
Love is not music
Music is THE BEST..." ____Frank Zappa
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10.06.2010 - 19:13
BitterCOld
Gringo
Written by Doc Godin on 10.06.2010 at 08:52

Written by Darkside Momo on 09.06.2010 at 22:38

I'm starting to be worried bout the similarity of thought among the staffers.

Yes, I do think like Thryce, Citter COld, and especially Marcel.
*facepalm*

I bet you all get your periods at the same time too.


no. marcel has already gone through menopause.... and i'm probably not far off.
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get the fuck off my lawn.
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10.06.2010 - 19:58
O Sinistron
Hopeless Sinner
Written by ylside on 09.06.2010 at 16:11

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 09.06.2010 at 15:02

The Irrelevance Of Writing A Rant About The Irrelevance Of Arguing Over Music

My thoughts exactly actually!

I also thought that,
But I agree with the text...
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Last.fm
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