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You're retarded, not so sorry to say.
Why does this sort of fluffy fruitcake metal always attract the worst fans? |
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| The only way that Marcel will like a band is if it's some no-name black/death metal band that no one has ever heard of... extra brownie points if every song by the band sounds the same (quite likely). |
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Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 21:33
Then you're deaf... Sorry to say that.
Sorry mate but you sound like a fanboy, He is deaf because he thinks Wintersun are average? Really? |
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Written by Sir Thrashalot on 22.10.2012 at 21:26
Something I forgot to mention above, it's Baz's courage to give that album a review. It does appeal to the masses and a lot of people were expecting this album for a whole lot of years, like me. I do think it's incomplete as well, but I had to note that it must not have been easy to be the one to say "Meh, i'll do it". Congrats on being objective too.
I agree very much with Baz's review, but I wouldn't act like he's taken some big, risky step by writing this review. Just read the first page of comments so far... 95% of the comments agree with him and are telling him what a great job he did. On MS, it's the COOL thing to do to call popular bands overrated... not the other way around. |
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Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 21:33
You're right, there are tons of average to bad bands, and Wintersun are among them
Then you're deaf... Sorry to say that.
You thinkz my favorite bandz is not the best... you must be deaf! (goes sobbing in corner)
Typical fanboy. |
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Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 21:38
The only way that Marcel will like a band is if it's some no-name black/death metal band that no one has ever heard of... extra brownie points if every song by the band sounds the same (quite likely).
LOL on this one. Always easy to look down on someone you have no clue about.
Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 21:33
He is not objective at all... You can even look at particular phrases he uses, they are subjective as hell. The review is purely subjective.
Reviews are per definition subjective. Per definition they are the opinion of ONE PERSON.
ONE person's opinion can never be objective. Opinions aren't objective or facts... They are just opinions which shall remain subjective for ever. Write your own review, it'll be just as good as this one in terms of being subjective tbh just like every single review in all websites. |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 22.10.2012 at 21:42
Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 21:38
The only way that Marcel will like a band is if it's some no-name black/death metal band that no one has ever heard of... extra brownie points if every song by the band sounds the same (quite likely).
LOL on this one. Always easy to look down on someone you have no clue about.
The truth hurts. Whenever a grand total of 50 people worldwide like the stuff you like, there's a reason for it. The stuff you listen to is boring noise, and it sucks. |
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Written by @gent_-_orange on 22.10.2012 at 21:38
Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 21:33
Then you're deaf... Sorry to say that.
Sorry mate but you sound like a fanboy, He is deaf because he thinks Wintersun are average? Really?
Yes, I think he is. Calling them average is pretty dull... One thing is he don't like them, don't enjoy listening to it etc. The other is to call a band that tries to record something different, more complex, combinating many influences and that is praised by many metal fans "almost average". Wintersun even did not have the money to record the album for years and still they have a fabulous fan base... The music itself speaks here, not advertisement or plagiarism. |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 22.10.2012 at 21:42
Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 21:38
The only way that Marcel will like a band is if it's some no-name black/death metal band that no one has ever heard of... extra brownie points if every song by the band sounds the same (quite likely).
LOL on this one. Always easy to look down on someone you have no clue about.
Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 21:33
He is not objective at all... You can even look at particular phrases he uses, they are subjective as hell. The review is purely subjective.
Reviews are per definition subjective. Per definition they are the opinion of ONE PERSON.
ONE person's opinion can never be objective. Opinions aren't objective or facts... They are just opinions which shall remain subjective for ever. Write your own review, it'll be just as good as this one in terms of being subjective tbh just like every single review in all websites.
Review can be at least a bit objective but then it is not going to say very much... At least to the majority of people. |
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Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 21:46
Written by Mr. Doctor on 22.10.2012 at 21:42
Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 21:38
The only way that Marcel will like a band is if it's some no-name black/death metal band that no one has ever heard of... extra brownie points if every song by the band sounds the same (quite likely).
LOL on this one. Always easy to look down on someone you have no clue about.
Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 21:33
He is not objective at all... You can even look at particular phrases he uses, they are subjective as hell. The review is purely subjective.
Reviews are per definition subjective. Per definition they are the opinion of ONE PERSON.
ONE person's opinion can never be objective. Opinions aren't objective or facts... They are just opinions which shall remain subjective for ever. Write your own review, it'll be just as good as this one in terms of being subjective tbh just like every single review in all websites.
Review can be at least a bit objective but then it is not going to say very much... At least to the majority of people.
Baz's review was actually very accurate and very complimentary of the album. I think you are only upset with the overall rating. |
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Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 21:45
The truth hurts. Whenever a grand total of 50 people worldwide like the stuff you like, there's a reason for it. The stuff you listen to is boring noise, and it sucks.
Hhahahahhahahahahahaha wow man you are awesome. You didn't even try to see what bands I listen to (some of them are in your own list of favorite bands). Same goes to Marcel tbh, a huge deal of his stuff is pretty "basic" in terms of how popular it is. |
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| Only 7.5 for an album from the fabled Wintersun? Damn, Baz, I hope you do know what kind of shit is about to hit the fan... |
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Written by Slayer666 on 22.10.2012 at 21:49
Only 7.5 for an album from the fabled Wintersun? Damn, Baz, I hope you do know what kind of shit is about to hit the fan...
Somehow I get the feeling that this is as much drama as we gonna get this time.  |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 22.10.2012 at 21:48
Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 21:45
The truth hurts. Whenever a grand total of 50 people worldwide like the stuff you like, there's a reason for it. The stuff you listen to is boring noise, and it sucks.
Hhahahahhahahahahahaha wow man you are awesome. You didn't even try to see what bands I listen to (some of them are in your own list of favorite bands). Same goes to Marcel tbh, a huge deal of his stuff is pretty "basic" in terms of how popular it is.
I was referring to Marcel, not you, champ  |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 22.10.2012 at 21:51
Somehow I get the feeling that this is as much drama as we gonna get this time.
Eh, that would be rather disappointing. Or maybe quite the opposite, it may mean (most) people have finally learned not to bitch about other people's opinions. |
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Written by Slayer666 on 22.10.2012 at 21:49
Only 7.5 for an album from the fabled Wintersun? Damn, Baz, I hope you do know what kind of shit is about to hit the fan...
As I said before... it won't. Unless by "shit hitting the fan" you mean 95% of the comments praising him and agreeing with him.
Again, it's cool to call popular music overrated on metalstorm, not the other way around.
With that said - baz deserves the praise, it was a good review. |
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Also, all of you can have a look for opinion of many people from the industry or other bands on Time I... Almost all of them are praising or even are amazed of how good the album is. I think quite safely they know better than some "pure metal fans" here. Those are the people who create the music you listen then...
About the review - I don't care about that 7.5... But the review itself is absolutely confusing as stated within one of my previous statements. He praises the album, he gives high marks for everything including production (which is quite bad in my opinion, definitely not worth 7) and then he ends with "uncomplete" statement even though he clearly knows this is THE FIRST PART AS IT IS STATED EVEN IN THE TITLE and lowers the rating to 7.5.
My rating for the album (to give a clue):
Performance: 10
Songwriting: 10
Originality: 9 (8.5)
Production: 6
Overall rating: 9.4 |
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Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 21:53
As I said before... it won't. Unless by "shit hitting the fan" you mean 95% of the comments praising him and agreeing with him.
Again, it's cool to call popular music overrated on metalstorm, not the other way around.
With that said - baz deserves the praise, it was a good review.
Apparently, shit really did hit the fan, mostly with you. I smell butthurt all over your posts. I even saw this little gem on your profile:
The handful of symphonic power metal bands out there are "generic," and yet the ENDLESS ocean of no-name death/black metal bands are "original?" Gotta love that metalhead logic... |
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I could also whine like that: "Almost nobody gave the new Freedom Call an objective rating, since almost nobody rated it with a 10."
Come on please, you have your opinion about an album, so you are subjective about it. When a review makes it clear that your point of view is a subjective one too, you're whining about a lack of objectivity just to avoid the fact that your opinion is also just an opinion. |
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Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 21:52
I was referring to Marcel, not you, champ
Same applies tbh specially since in the elite/staff world we joke quite a lot that I'm the "mini Marcel". |
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Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 21:55
Also, all of you can have a look for opinion of many people from the industry or other bands on Time I... Almost all of them are praising or even are amazed of how good the album is. I think quite safely they know better than some "pure metal fans" here. Those are the people who create the music you listen then...
About the review - I don't care about that 7.5... But the review itself is absolutely confusing as stated within one of my previous statements. He praises the album, he gives high marks for everything including production (which is quite bad in my opinion, definitely not worth 7) and then he ends with "uncomplete" statement even though he clearly knows this is THE FIRST PART AS IT IS STATED EVEN IN THE TITLE and lowers the rating to 7.5.
What's your point? A bunch of big name musicians praised the latest Morbid Angel too. Most musicians just aren't willing to take the heat and start bad mouthing other big name bands. More musicians should take the King Fowley approach. |
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Written by Slayer666 on 22.10.2012 at 21:56
Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 21:53
As I said before... it won't. Unless by "shit hitting the fan" you mean 95% of the comments praising him and agreeing with him.
Again, it's cool to call popular music overrated on metalstorm, not the other way around.
With that said - baz deserves the praise, it was a good review.
Apparently, shit really did hit the fan, mostly with you. I smell butthurt all over your posts. I even saw this little gem on your profile:
The handful of symphonic power metal bands out there are "generic," and yet the ENDLESS ocean of no-name death/black metal bands are "original?" Gotta love that metalhead logic...
So me agreeing with Baz and telling him that his review was very accurate = butthurt over his review.
You've got to be brighter than that... |
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Quote:
What's your point? A bunch of big name musicians praised the latest Morbid Angel too. Most musicians just aren't willing to take the heat and start bad mouthing other big name bands. More musicians should take the King Fowley approach.
That's your interpretation of the thing. I would trust a successful musicians or audio industry guy more than a generic MS fan tbh... |
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Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 22:03
What's your point? A bunch of big name musicians praised the latest Morbid Angel too. Most musicians just aren't willing to take the heat and start bad mouthing other big name bands. More musicians should take the King Fowley approach.
That's your interpretation of the thing. I would trust a successful musicians or audio industry guy more than a generic MS fan tbh...
Exactly. That's why people don't trust your opinion. |
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It's so fun to read "Time 1" topics.
Btw, agree with the main points of the review, even though I think it deserves a lower score. Dividing the two albums was a really effective commercial move as I said before but it surely compromised the musical experience. |
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Quote:
Written by Andreas on 22.10.2012 at 22:05
Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 22:03
What's your point? A bunch of big name musicians praised the latest Morbid Angel too. Most musicians just aren't willing to take the heat and start bad mouthing other big name bands. More musicians should take the King Fowley approach.
That's your interpretation of the thing. I would trust a successful musicians or audio industry guy more than a generic MS fan tbh...
Exactly. That's why people don't trust your opinion.
Why should people trust my opinion? |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 22.10.2012 at 22:00
Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 21:52
I was referring to Marcel, not you, champ
Same applies tbh specially since in the elite/staff world we joke quite a lot that I'm the "mini Marcel".
All of us are to some extent... but he takes it to the extreme, knows that he takes it to the extreme, and has posted numerous times before about how he is proud of it. Nothing wrong with it... I'm just calling him out on the fact that there's a reason nobody likes what he likes. It's not good music. If it was, it'd be more popular. I suppose "not good music" is subjective... but when 99.99% of humans on earth would agree with you, you're in safe company. Just check out his top albums of 2012 if you want a good look at what I'm talking about. |
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@MetalHOE
If you want to see 99% of people praising this album, go to youtube, facebook, or virtually any other metal/music website besides metalstorm. I'm not sure what you expected to find here... in fact, I'm surprised that you weren't pleasantly surprised by the very positive review that Baz gave this album. You aren't going to change many minds here, and it doesn't matter, because "here"is a very very very very very small handful of metal fans worldwide. Metalstorm has its own unique, special attitude. Most albums that are considered "flops" on here receive high praise and success in the real world... and most of the modern "masterpieces" discussed on here nobody has ever heard of. Don't let it get to you so much.
FWIW, I was a little let down by this album... but then again, I didn't think Wintersun's debut was amazing either... but not bad, maybe a 7/10.
I need to listen to Time a few more times, as I've only heard it once. But from my first listen, I'd say Baz's review is spot on. |
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Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 22:03
So me agreeing with Baz and telling him that his review was very accurate = butthurt over his review.
You've got to be brighter than that...
I wasn't really saying you were butthurt over the review itself, but rather over other people's comments here. Which is what happens when a huge, wildly popular band gets a score that's not a perfect 10 in an official review. Some people bitch about the review/score, others bitch about the people bitching about the review/score and so on and so forth. But less-than-a-perfect review is what's at the heart of it all, which was my point. |
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Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 22:09
@MetalHOE
If you want to see 99% of people praising this album, go to youtube, facebook, or virtually any other metal/music website besides metalstorm. I'm not sure what you expected to find here... in fact, I'm surprised that you weren't pleasantly surprised by the very positive review that Baz gave this album. You aren't going to change many minds here, and it doesn't matter, because "here"is a very very very very very small handful of metal fans worldwide. Don't let it get to you so much.
Why should I want to change someone's opinion? I am just discussing to get a picture why some people here see it differently and giving my own opinion and statements... The review from Baz is not very positive at all since it doesn't make sense, at least to me. I have seen a lot better reviews written by him... |
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Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 22:06
Just check out his top albums of 2012 if you want a good look at what I'm talking about.
I don't need that. Because I share his tastes quite a lot and know for a fact how many people like that sort of music specially since there are festivals I've been where the music is in that vein and I must say they are pretty crowded, not as much as the more melodic kind of metal but still very much alive. At least alive enough for you to throw away your comments of "nobody likes it" out of the window since you obviously don't have a clue of the scene you are talking about.
I don't write comments about a fanbase of a band or music I'm not particularly interested or knowledgeable. I suggest you to do the same.
Also... Please don't give me that whole "if everyone agrees with you, you are safe" shit. It really doesn't hold... Not in this case and not in real life. |
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Written by Slayer666 on 22.10.2012 at 22:09
Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 22:03
So me agreeing with Baz and telling him that his review was very accurate = butthurt over his review.
You've got to be brighter than that...
I wasn't really saying you were butthurt over the review itself, but rather over other people's comments here. Which is what happens when a huge, wildly popular band gets a score that's not a perfect 10 in an official review. Some people bitch about the review/score, others bitch about the people bitching about the review/score and so on and so forth. But less-than-a-perfect review is what's at the heart of it all, which was my point.
Actually that wasn't your point, but giving you the benefit of the doubt, I'll at least agree with your new point.
Granted... I'm still right. There has been, so far, one "fanboy." The rest have been people agreeing with Baz and/or bashing on that fanboy. My point stands - you don't stir up controversy on MS by calling popular bands/albums overrated. It's never been that way... at least not any time within the last 3-5 years.
A few (just a few) examples would be responses to new album/news articles from ANY of these bands:
Sonata Arctica (new stuff sucks, they aren't metal anymore, etc.)
Nightwish (new stuff sucks, Annette sucks, they are pop now, etc.)
Children of Bodom (new stuff sucks, they will never be like old CoB, their riffs suck, etc.)
Arjen Anthony Lucassen (overrated, no good projects, fanboys praise everything he does, etc.)
Sirenia (new stuff sucks, first two albums were their only good music, they are pop now, etc.)
The list goes on and on. Since when has bashing new/popular metal music and/or calling it overrated caused controversy here? You always have 2-3 upset fanboys, and then the rest are people bashing them for being fanboys. |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 22.10.2012 at 22:13
Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 22:06
Just check out his top albums of 2012 if you want a good look at what I'm talking about.
I don't need that. Because I share his tastes quite a lot and know for a fact how many people like that sort of music specially since there are festivals I've been where the music is in that vein and I must say they are pretty crowded, not as much as the more melodic kind of metal but still very much alive. At least alive enough for you to throw away your comments of "nobody likes it" out of the window since you obviously don't have a clue of the scene you are talking about.
I don't write comments about a fanbase of a band or music I'm not particularly interested or knowledgeable. I suggest you to do the same.
Also... Please don't give me that whole "if everyone agrees with you, you are safe" shit. It really doesn't hold... Not in this case and not in real life.
No, those festivals don't draw huge crowds. That statement is non-factual.
And no, those scenes are not "very much" alive. They are alive enough to have a couple hundred facebook fans who probably never listen to their albums, and maybe even alive enough to draw out a small crowd in some small and dull town in scandinavia... that's it. None of them are coming even remotely close to making a living from music, and if I were to survey every single person alive that I know, probably literally zero of them would have ever heard of a single album/band from Marcel's top-of-2012 list. There's a reason for that. |
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^
This guy is why we can't have nice things... |
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Written by Slayer666 on 22.10.2012 at 22:24
^
This guy is why we can't have nice things...
At least you know when to give up because you are beat. That's a precious gift. |
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Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 22:25
At least you know when to give up because you are beat. That's a precious gift.
You "beat" me? Dude, you sure you're 24? An "argument" like this I'd only expect from someone half your age.
I'm just done going back-and-forth with a guy who's convinced he's really knowledgeable about something he so clearly has no clue about. It's the "you can't play chess with a pigeon" thing: no matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces of the table, crap on it and carry on like it won. |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 22.10.2012 at 22:13
Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 22:06
Just check out his top albums of 2012 if you want a good look at what I'm talking about.
I don't need that. Because I share his tastes quite a lot and know for a fact how many people like that sort of music specially since there are festivals I've been where the music is in that vein and I must say they are pretty crowded, not as much as the more melodic kind of metal but still very much alive. At least alive enough for you to throw away your comments of "nobody likes it" out of the window since you obviously don't have a clue of the scene you are talking about.
I don't write comments about a fanbase of a band or music I'm not particularly interested or knowledgeable. I suggest you to do the same.
Also... Please don't give me that whole "if everyone agrees with you, you are safe" shit. It really doesn't hold... Not in this case and not in real life.
"Many people" like Justin Bieber, not ultra-underground metal. |
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Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 22:25
At least you know when to give up because you are beat. That's a precious gift.
Beat from what? I wasn't aware someone was winning here. 
Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 22:30
"Many people" like Justin Bieber, not ultra-underground metal.
That's not a bad example when it comes to explain why crowds don't mean a thing in real life. Thank you. |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 22.10.2012 at 22:30
Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 22:25
At least you know when to give up because you are beat. That's a precious gift.
Beat from what? I wasn't aware someone was winning here.
Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 22:30
"Many people" like Justin Bieber, not ultra-underground metal.
That's not a bad example when it comes to explain why crowds don't mean a thing in real life. Thank you.
I agree... I am just trying to get you back into the context of reality. :-) |
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| Top 2012 list? I didn't know I had one |
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Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 22:32
I agree... I am just trying to get you back into the context of reality. :-)
Well, I won't comment on any of the stuff you were discussing previously with other users since I know that would be a very silly thing to do based on how I don't agree with you and you won't agree with me. 
But I'd bet both of us are mature enough to know when to not talk about music or an entire metal scene we know absolutely nothing about. Right? |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 22.10.2012 at 22:35
Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 22:32
I agree... I am just trying to get you back into the context of reality. :-)
Well, I won't comment on any of the stuff you were discussing previously with other users since I know that would be a very silly thing to do based on how I don't agree with you and you won't agree with me.
But I'd bet both of us are mature enough to know when to not talk about music or an entire metal scene we know absolutely nothing about. Right?
As I am a very wide-oriented listener, I have a quite good idea about audience of many genres (pop, rock and metal of many types, some classical, folk and some others) and to be honest, metal is definitely not even close to the top. And I am even not talking about your super-undegroundish metal which is at the absolute bottom of the list in terms of popularity. I find it very sad as I have a full respect for many metal bands (even if I don't enjoy listening to them very much) but this is how it is. And for a reason. |
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Written by Slayer666 on 22.10.2012 at 22:29
Written by Italics on 22.10.2012 at 22:25
At least you know when to give up because you are beat. That's a precious gift.
You "beat" me? Dude, you sure you're 24? An "argument" like this I'd only expect from someone half your age.
I'm just done going back-and-forth with a guy who's convinced he's really knowledgeable about something he so clearly has no clue about. It's the "you can't play chess with a pigeon" thing: no matter how good you are at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock all the pieces of the table, crap on it and carry on like it won.
It actually went more like this:
You make a false statement
I point out that it's false
You follow up with a completely inaccurate accusation
I correct that accusation
You deny you ever made the accusation and resort back to the false statement
I show you why your original statement is wrong... again
You give up because you have nothing that is backed up by evidence or factual to say
Take your ball and go home, I don't care. This debate is over, if you can call something with only one valid side a "debate" to begin with. And unlike you, I actually got EXACTLY what I'd expect from someone your age. |
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Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 22:41
And for a reason.
The reason is simply that some music is easier to access than the other. Nothing more to it. Implying that quality is proportional to the audience is simply ridiculous and very naive.
I'm not saying that OMG THE UNDERGROUND RULZ. I'm quite a big fan of very mainstream bands both metal or not. I'm just saying that when someone thinks quality is seen in how many people listen to a band/artist... They are missing the point. |
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Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 22:06
Why should people trust my opinion?
I have no idea, but taking your activity in this thread into consideration, your opinion must be important to you at least. |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 22.10.2012 at 22:46
Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 22:41
And for a reason.
The reason is simply that some music is easier to access than the other. Nothing more to it. Implying that quality is proportional to the audience is simply ridiculous and very naive.
I'm not saying that OMG THE UNDERGROUND RULZ. I'm quite a big fan of very mainstream bands both metal or not. I'm just saying that when someone thinks quality is seen in how many people listen to a band/artist... They are missing the point.
In his defence, he never actually said what the reason was in his opinion. |
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Written by Andreas on 22.10.2012 at 22:51
Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 22:06
Why should people trust my opinion?
I have no idea, but taking your activity in this thread into consideration, your opinion must be important to you at least.
Of course it is important to me... That's essential. |
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Written by Mr. Doctor on 22.10.2012 at 22:46
Written by MetalHOE on 22.10.2012 at 22:41
And for a reason.
The reason is simply that some music is easier to access than the other. Nothing more to it. Implying that quality is proportional to the audience is simply ridiculous and very naive.
I'm not saying that OMG THE UNDERGROUND RULZ. I'm quite a big fan of very mainstream bands both metal or not. I'm just saying that when someone thinks quality is seen in how many people listen to a band/artist... They are missing the point.
I listen to rock and pop but I don't think metal is worse... And I don't think it's better. I can clearly spot elements where metal is superior and where it clearly lacks. That's normal - every genre and subgenre has its strong points on which it is based. |
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| An average score is supposed to be an average score which in this case is 8.7 or 8.8 if you round it. 7.5 doesn't make any sense but I agree with the rest of the review |
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 Blizk - 22.10.2012 at 23:18
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Written by opeth771 on 22.10.2012 at 23:14
An average score is supposed to be an average score which in this case is 8.7 or 8.8 if you round it. 7.5 doesn't make any sense but I agree with the rest of the review
As said early on in this comment thread, overall rating isn't supposed to be the average of the ones in the bottom (and the reason is also argumented in the review itself). I myself am working on a review that averages 7.3 on those four marks, but this will not be the overall rating as it takes more things to consideration. |
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