Rating:
7.5
Wintersun - Time I
19 October 2012


Disc I
01. When Time Fades Away
02. Sons Of Winter And Stars
    1 - Rain Of Stars
    2 - Surrounded By Darkness
    3 - Journey Inside A Dream
    4 - Sons Of Winter And Stars
03. Land Of Snow And Sorrow
04. Darkness And Frost
05. Time
06. [hidden track] [Mediabook & Mailorder edition bonus]

Disc II [DVD] [Mediabook bonus]
+ Time I Live Rehearsals At Sonic Pump Studios
+ Licks & Tricks
+ Sons Of Winter And Stars - Project Demonstration
+ Photo Gallery

Disc III [instrumental CD] [Mailorder edition bonus]
01. When Time Fades Away
02. Sons Of Winter And Stars
    1 - Rain Of Stars
    2 - Surrounded By Darkness
    3 - Journey Inside A Dream
    4 - Sons Of Winter And Stars
03. Land Of Snow And Sorrow
04. Darkness And Frost
05. Time


One of the most highly anticipated albums of the last decade; Time I finally ends the eight year silence, but was the wait worth it?

After the charming Eastern folk influenced introduction, it soon becomes apparent that things have changed with the band in the last eight years. From the album theme of comprehending human emotion and our time on earth to the musicianship and ambitious nature of the orchestrations, Wintersun have aimed for a much grander sound.

Much more symphonic, bombastic even, "Sons Of Winter And Stars" kicks the album off with high spirit and energy. Eight years all of a sudden becomes a little more understandable with the amount of attention to detail and intricate compositions that are so copiously and lavishly interlaced into the music. The musicianship is absolutely top-notch throughout and the closing two minutes of the song provide a wonderfully epic and memorable crescendo.

The album has so many layers, it is deeply ambitious. Time I is an album that has very clearly had so much dedication and effort put into it, but at times it also sounds like Jari has become so consumed with making this the masterpiece everyone wanted that it becomes a little over-indulgent with how complex and dense the compositions are. We are presented a masterclass of orchestration in metal, but it is a challenge to digest and connect with.

With a running time of forty minutes, which includes the introduction and interlude, Time I as a standalone album is very short. The previously mentioned "Sons Of Winter And Stars" and title track "Time" are both great songs and enough to make you crave the second album, but it is hard not to feel underwhelmed when the album seems to cut short. It isn't made any better with a questionable light and quiet production either. Time I then is exactly that; the first of two halves, not the complete article.

The album is mindblowingly impressive in portions, but is just a little too complex and indulgent for its own good. Perhaps along with Time II the picture will become complete, but even though this album has some golden moments - it just feels unfinished alone.

-

Symphonic Extreme Power metal
Nuclear Blast
Finland
Length: 40:07

Performance: 10
Songwriting: 9
Originality: 9
Production: 7


Band profile: Wintersun
Album: Time I


 



Written on 22.10.2012 by
Baz Anderson
Member of Staff since 2006.
More reviews by Baz Anderson ››



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Milena - 23.10.2012 at 03:27  
Written by BlueMobius on 22.10.2012 at 18:22

Your review is spot on Baz, though I enjoyed Land of Snow and Sorrow a lot too. [...]

Musically though, the melodies have been stuck in my head since I started listening to it. Having already heard The Way of the Fire, together Time I and II should be a pretty epic listen. Overall Time I feels like three tracks to me because the intro and interlude flow into the tracks that follow so well.

^ ditto. It's easy not to screw up a lot when there's only 40 minutes, but I like this chunk of music even though my not-great-to-start-with interest in bombastic shizz has plummeted in the past year or so. I'd give it about a point higher than Baz really. I've already heard it around 10 times in the past few days and not once have I desired to change it. I think its complexity is overblown - it's simply just a little more layered than other releases in the genre, but it's not like the layers clash or are difficult to comprehend - it's a pretty easy, relaxing listen overall, except for the production being in the way sometimes. Jari has probably learned a lot from this experience so we can expect him to do a better job next time around.

Comments and commenters as silly as expected, but I'm frankly more concerned for those of you who went on to argue with them - don't take this as an insult! It's just that, I've spent the afternoon doing nothing and I consider even that time better spent than arguing with people who don't know the meanings of words such as "subjectivity" and whatever else we have here - haven't dived deep enough into it. You're only young once, who cares about arguing with fanboys of the band you supposedly don't care for?

tl;dr I like the album a lot, I like Barry's review, I dislike this thread.
Italics - 23.10.2012 at 03:41  
Written by Uldreth on 23.10.2012 at 00:11

Lol.

I cannot decide what do I consider more ridiculous, that Baz gets this shitstorm for a GODDAMN FUCKING POSITIVE ALBUM RATING (this is seriously fucking hilarious), or that people still believe metalstorm has some crusade against melodic metal, when 90% of the userbase is heavily biased TOWARDS melodic accessible stuff as it is witnessed by the likes of Wintersun or Nightwish getting shitloads of attention compared to more extreme and far less accessible acts.

Good review anyways, it kind of assessed what I like or dislike about the album, except it overplayed the "complexity" thing a little, which I don't really agree with, and as such I'd rate it a tad lower.


This again? Lol - seriously? What shitstorm? Where is the shitstorm? The vast majority of people commenting seem to agree with Baz. And several of the people who rated it higher still congratulated him on a good review. Are you seeing things?
Italics - 23.10.2012 at 03:45  
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 23.10.2012 at 00:30

Thank God for this review of a mediocre album: it's great to see every moron on Metalstorm congregate in one place and have a big old cry that it didn't get 10.


Aaaa, another MSer who will only listen to your band if you are a group of guys living in a basement who nobody has ever heard of. Check out this first line of favorite bands:
Blut Aus Nord, Skullflower, !T.O.O.H.!, The Meads Of Asphodel, Lurker Of Chalice, Murmuüre, Negative Plane, The Ruins Of Beverast, Beherit
I could go to a metal festival and probably no one would have ever even heard of one of these bands... if they had, they'd probably think they sucked. Your musical tastes must just be way too developed for mere earthlings like me to comprehend... in fact, there's probably only a select dozen of you on earth with such developed tastes.

And before you call me a fanboy, I'd probably only rate this album around a 7 (but that's only after one listen).
I'm not a huge Wintersun fan by any stretch of the imagnation... but when I see people calling this "generic" and comparing it to bands like Nightwish and Equilibrium, I lose a little faith in the metal community... until I remember that the opinions of the few people on MS are an awful representation of the actual metal community.
!J.O.O.E.! - 23.10.2012 at 03:51  
Exhibit A ladies and gentleman ^

You should go get a cushion for that butthurt you're nursing. Have a sit down and realise that with every sentence you write, every irrelevant anecdote you make and every personal attack you swing with wildly draws attention to you more than anything you're talking about. Thanks for that paragraph about my great tastes though.
Italics - 23.10.2012 at 03:55  
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 23.10.2012 at 03:51

Exhibit A ladies and gentleman ^

You should go get a cushion for that butthurt you're nursing. Have a sit down and realise that with every sentence you write, every irrelevant anecdote you make and every personal attack you swing with wildly draws attention to you more than anything you're talking about. Thanks for that paragraph about my great tastes though.


1) Butthurt about what? This album, upon first listen, is a bit of a letdown IMO. I agree with the review 99%.

2) What personal attacks? I didn't even mention your hair once. Until now.

Go listen to your sweet music, bro. Some day the rest of humanity will come around to understanding that the directionless noise you listen to and call "great metal" is actually a plethora of masterpieces disguised as fart noises.
!J.O.O.E.! - 23.10.2012 at 04:03  
Written by Italics on 23.10.2012 at 03:55


1) Butthurt about what? This album, upon first listen, is a bit of a letdown IMO. I agree with the review 99%.

2) What personal attacks? I didn't even mention your hair once. Until now.

Go listen to your sweet music, bro. Some day the rest of humanity will come around to understanding that the directionless noise you listen to and call "great metal" is actually a plethora of masterpieces disguised as fart noises.

So much angst... you seem to have a major grudge toward people with tastes a little less popular than the kind of easy-listening metal you listen to. I can only attribute that to an inferiority complex. Your best "argument" so far seems to be periodically pointing out people lacking in "factual" statements and arguments and how you've served out "facts" of your own (when you haven't once in the whole discussion, rather you've handed out stab-in-the-dark guesses under the guise of "fact" as I will demonstrate shortly) but the crux and meat of your comments toward me have been philistine suppositions about my tastes and how they're somehow preconstructed based on the number of listeners. From the horse's mouth:

Quote:
You make a false statement

You follow up with a completely inaccurate accusation

A statement now rendered into accidental hypocrisy derived from a natural lack of ability to make a cogent argument.



You then went on to build an ad-hom about how the general metal populace would think those bands, and in turn, my tastes, "sucked." This constitutes a personal attack as it has no basis in fact (that paradigm you like so much) or any relation to the topic at hand. You also showcased some bands that I like in an effort to ridicule me. Please, enlighten me as to how this is part and parcel of your fact-finding methodology? It was a fallacy to think you could use that in a discussion such as this. Egregious much? As I said, your comments reveal more about your own shortcomings than anything else. You should learn to focus your thoughts, and use good judgement on what not to write, for example crass generalisations about music you don't understand and so forth.

More horribly inaccurate presumption being passed off as "fact" by you:

Quote:
No, those festivals don't draw huge crowds. That statement is non-factual.

And no, those scenes are not "very much" alive. They are alive enough to have a couple hundred facebook fans who probably never listen to their albums, and maybe even alive enough to draw out a small crowd in some small and dull town in scandinavia


So by your "facts" no festival of the "fart noises" I would listen to would draw a crowd larger than a "few hundred?" Let's see, Supersonic Festival in the UK is predominantly a noise festival, a genre infinitely less popular than metal, yet draws 2500 people? Roadburn festival, surely one of the most elite and prententious festivals that host to the kind of music I would like has a main area capacity of 3000. Quite clearly lacking knowledge in specific areas, hence my comment of "swinging wildy." As they say: get your facts straight. Of course capacity and popularity is totally irrelevant anyway. If you're going to go down that path then by your own definitions pop music is the best kind of music as popular festivals of pop, indie and the like draw enormous crowds. a statement I can qualify by a statement of yours:

Quote:
there's a reason nobody likes what he likes. It's not good music. If it was, it'd be more popular.


In a nut shell: the more popular the music the better it is. More poor reasoning on your part, I think we can all agree on that being the case.



And yeah, I really have no idea what you're butthurt about but you're exhibiting classics signs of that particular internet staple which tends to feast on the weak minded whose opinion just *needs* be acknowledged, typically culminating and exemplified by the said party claiming (falsely) victory over the other, which just serves to highlight the true reason why they're arguing in the first place:

Quote:
At least you know when to give up because you are beat. That's a precious gift.


So, what did you want to say about my hair? I'm sure it's extremely pertinent to the discussion at hand.
Hammer Pie - 23.10.2012 at 04:35  
So, this is the way symphonic metal works? Write the most boring, basic guitar riffs you can, then drown it under 200 layers of synths and it becomes "complex"?

Good review, but I don't agree with it. This album sounds like Jari spent most of those 8 years figuring out how to dump more sugar and frosting into the mix, and it ended up turning into an easy listening ball of fluff.
Hammer Pie - 23.10.2012 at 04:57  
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 23.10.2012 at 04:03
So much angst... you seem to have a major grudge toward people with tastes a little less popular than the kind of easy-listening metal you listen to.

I think the problem is that mainstream/pop-metal fans are so used to having the majority opinion that they never learned to handle criticism about something they like.
!J.O.O.E.! - 23.10.2012 at 05:00  
Written by Hammer Pie on 23.10.2012 at 04:57

I think the problem is that mainstream/pop-metal fans are so used to having the majority opinion that they never learned to handle criticism about something they like.

They need to get to grips with the fact that because the music they listen to is popular it draws large amounts of people toward it, both fans AND detractors. Inevitably the focus will be on those that say "this should be a 10 and nothing less" and those that say it's less than good.
Opethian - 23.10.2012 at 05:04  
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 23.10.2012 at 00:39

To those cryers... since when is a 7.5 offensive or parsimonious?
A 7.5 denotes something between good and very good.


Well said. I have yet to get my own copy, but i doubt whats in store was worth an 8 year wait. Is it seriously a 40 minute album? That alone is disappointing
AngelofDeth - 23.10.2012 at 05:12  
Written by Hammer Pie on 23.10.2012 at 04:35

So, this is the way symphonic metal works? Write the most boring, basic guitar riffs you can, then drown it under 200 layers of synths and it becomes "complex"?

While this album has symphonic elements it is not simply symphonic metal. So i wouldnt make generalizations about the genre based off of this album.

And it is impossible to deny that this album is complex. Although, whether the complexity is a good thing or bad is up for debate.
Italics - 23.10.2012 at 06:32  
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 23.10.2012 at 04:03

Written by Italics on 23.10.2012 at 03:55


1) Butthurt about what? This album, upon first listen, is a bit of a letdown IMO. I agree with the review 99%.

2) What personal attacks? I didn't even mention your hair once. Until now.

Go listen to your sweet music, bro. Some day the rest of humanity will come around to understanding that the directionless noise you listen to and call "great metal" is actually a plethora of masterpieces disguised as fart noises.

So much angst... you seem to have a major grudge toward people with tastes a little less popular than the kind of easy-listening metal you listen to. I can only attribute that to an inferiority complex. Your best "argument" so far seems to be periodically pointing out people lacking in "factual" statements and arguments and how you've served out "facts" of your own (when you haven't once in the whole discussion, rather you've handed out stab-in-the-dark guesses under the guise of "fact" as I will demonstrate shortly) but the crux and meat of your comments toward me have been philistine suppositions about my tastes and how they're somehow preconstructed based on the number of listeners. From the horse's mouth:

Quote:
You make a false statement

You follow up with a completely inaccurate accusation

A statement now rendered into accidental hypocrisy derived from a natural lack of ability to make a cogent argument.



You then went on to build an ad-hom about how the general metal populace would think those bands, and in turn, my tastes, "sucked." This constitutes a personal attack as it has no basis in fact (that paradigm you like so much) or any relation to the topic at hand. You also showcased some bands that I like in an effort to ridicule me. Please, enlighten me as to how this is part and parcel of your fact-finding methodology? It was a fallacy to think you could use that in a discussion such as this. Egregious much? As I said, your comments reveal more about your own shortcomings than anything else. You should learn to focus your thoughts, and use good judgement on what not to write, for example crass generalisations about music you don't understand and so forth.

More horribly inaccurate presumption being passed off as "fact" by you:

Quote:
No, those festivals don't draw huge crowds. That statement is non-factual.

And no, those scenes are not "very much" alive. They are alive enough to have a couple hundred facebook fans who probably never listen to their albums, and maybe even alive enough to draw out a small crowd in some small and dull town in scandinavia


So by your "facts" no festival of the "fart noises" I would listen to would draw a crowd larger than a "few hundred?" Let's see, Supersonic Festival in the UK is predominantly a noise festival, a genre infinitely less popular than metal, yet draws 2500 people? Roadburn festival, surely one of the most elite and prententious festivals that host to the kind of music I would like has a main area capacity of 3000. Quite clearly lacking knowledge in specific areas, hence my comment of "swinging wildy." As they say: get your facts straight. Of course capacity and popularity is totally irrelevant anyway. If you're going to go down that path then by your own definitions pop music is the best kind of music as popular festivals of pop, indie and the like draw enormous crowds. a statement I can qualify by a statement of yours:

Quote:
there's a reason nobody likes what he likes. It's not good music. If it was, it'd be more popular.


In a nut shell: the more popular the music the better it is. More poor reasoning on your part, I think we can all agree on that being the case.



And yeah, I really have no idea what you're butthurt about but you're exhibiting classics signs of that particular internet staple which tends to feast on the weak minded whose opinion just *needs* be acknowledged, typically culminating and exemplified by the said party claiming (falsely) victory over the other, which just serves to highlight the true reason why they're arguing in the first place:

Quote:
At least you know when to give up because you are beat. That's a precious gift.


So, what did you want to say about my hair? I'm sure it's extremely pertinent to the discussion at hand.


For how much you seem to get a thrill up your leg from using the term "butthurt," you sure to seem quite worked up yourself...

Rather than type you a novel where I try to show off how many big words I can misspell or misuse, I'll keep it simple for you:

The only somewhat factual statement you made in your entire wall of directionless text was dealing with festival numbers and stadium capacity...

The best, first, and most powerful example you could think of? One which is not even tied into the topic: A non-metal festival. If I were to ask you for evidence as to why Russians are on average taller than Germans, I suppose your first and most powerful fact would be "Americans are taller than Chinese people." That's about the equivalent of what you just pulled off. I hope you realize how silly it looks, but you probably don't.
Then you followed up this intellectual blunder with a somewhat (keyword: somewhat) more relevant point.... oh nevermind - 3,000 people. Yeah, you shot yourself in the foot again. Hold it - are you trying to prove ME right, or you? I'm losing track here. You're sending me mixed messages.

The bands that I "selected" so carefully from your list actually derived from the first line of it... something I pointed out. And so you either lack basic reading comprehension skills, or you are simply selective and biased in your presentation. Probably a bit of both.
And the fact stands - there is a reason that nobody, including metalheads, has heard of those bands - and that perhaps out of the miniscule number of people who have, most are likely to discard it for what it is - garbage. I sincerely apologize if that fact hurts your feelings. As I said, I'm sure some day the rest of the world and metal community will come around to your level of musical comprehension (which I hope is more developed than your reading comprehension).

And I think your hair is absolutely fabulous, sugar. No further comments on that. Learn to take a compliment! Don't get your panties in a wad over it.
Hammer Pie - 23.10.2012 at 06:39  
Written by AngelofDeth on 23.10.2012 at 05:12

While this album has symphonic elements it is not simply symphonic metal. So i wouldnt make generalizations about the genre based off of this album.

And it is impossible to deny that this album is complex. Although, whether the complexity is a good thing or bad is up for debate.

It's not so much that I make a generalization based on this album, as that this album is a perfect example of the generalizations people (including me) tend to make about symphonic metal. I feel that when bands try to go this route, the metal part gets watered down to the point where it's no longer enjoyable. That's especially true for people like me who enjoyed Wintersun's debut back when it was new, but have since moved on to more extreme metal.

As for the complexity, that's of course a matter of opinion, but to me this isn't a complex album. It has long songs with a ton of layers, but the structures, rhythms and melodies are very straightforward. There really wasn't anything there that made me feel challenged or surprised.

Written by Italics on 23.10.2012 at 06:32

The only somewhat factual statement you made in your entire wall of directionless text was dealing with festival numbers and stadium capacity...

I think his factual statement was that you are butthurt that some prefer their metal to be more extreme than the flowery mainstream stuff. And he appears to be correct.
!J.O.O.E.! - 23.10.2012 at 06:51  
Written by Italics on 23.10.2012 at 06:32

For how much you seem to get a thrill up your leg from using the term "butthurt," you sure to seem quite worked up yourself...
Rather than type you a novel where I try to show off how many big words I can misspell or misuse


Don't misconstrue my attempts to challenge you on a vaguely intellectual level as "getting worked up." This is another attempt on your part to attack my presentation (again with another false assertion) whilst avoiding the actual topic at hand and you aren't concealing it very well. If you didn't understand the language I was using you should have taken your time and looked up the words you didn't comprehend (rather than limply dismissing them as incorrect or inappropriate. Just makes you look like a pleb). It's not like there's a time limit on a response.

Quote:

The only somewhat factual statement you made in your entire wall of directionless text was dealing with festival numbers and stadium capacity...


It's the only one thing I said was fact. I haven't tried to portray opinion and guess work as fact, like you have. Unlike you I'm clear on what i'm trying to say.

Quote:
The best, first, and most powerful example you could think of? One which is not even tied into the topic: A non-metal festival. If I were to ask you for evidence as to why Russians are on average taller than Germans, I suppose your first and most powerful fact would be "Americans are taller than Chinese people." That's about the equivalent of what you just pulled off. I hope you realize how silly it looks, but you probably don't.


On the contrary it's an ideal example. That festival showcases music which is far closer to the "noise" you think a lot of metal is. And as I said it's an area of music even less popular than metal, which was the locus of your argument if I'm not mistaken: less popular = less good. I offered one of each in fact, a non-metal and a metal festival, but strangely you decided to completely ignore my second example. I guess it wouldn't have held up against your flaccid attack here... hmm. You're trying to find fault where there is none, once again, to try and derail my points which you don't seem to want to attempt to counter. Stop doing this if you want to be taken seriously.

Quote:
Then you followed up this intellectual blunder with a somewhat more relevant poi.... oh nevermind - 3,000 people. Yeah, you shot yourself in the foot again. Hold it - are you trying to prove ME right, or you? I'm losing track here. You're sending me mixed messages.


Again this is pretty irrelevant, however for the sake of giving you an answer: You have continually painted an inaccurate picture of the more obscure genres of metal as extremely disparate and having no connection outside of the internet. My point was that thousands of people can indeed come together and enjoy such music. Ultimately though I'm pointing out, as many others here have said today, that you make it quite apparent that you lack the necessary understanding and knowledge to accurately summarise the kind of populace that make up extreme metal, rather you stick to your fantasy imaginings and consistently put them forward as empirical fact.

Quote:
The bands that I "selected" so carefully from your list actually derived from the first line of it... something I pointed out. And so you either lack basic reading comprehension skills, or you are simply selective and biased in your presentation. Probably a bit of both.


I'm sorry, the relevance of this semantic rambling is? You admit then that bands were chosen arbitrarily, which supports my assertion that you're making claims about bands and music you know nothing about. This is posturing on your part. Nothing more.

Quote:
And the fact stands - there is a reason that nobody, including metalheads, has heard of those bands - and that perhaps out of the miniscule number of people who have, most are likely to discard it for what it is - garbage.


Where is the fact of this? Facts requite evidence, and your verbatim ramblings about how much you dislike non-flower metal does not constitute evidence. You've ignored my point about popularity not being related to quality. I can see that you don't want to broach this subject, I assume because you have nothing further to say on it so I will take the initiative and assume you regard Justin Bieber as the height of musical quality as that's the only logical conclusion to the way you see music. Otherwise this is just more posturing on your part.

Quote:
I sincerely apologize if that fact hurts your feelings. As I said, I'm sure some day the rest of the world and metal community will come around to your level of musical comprehension (which I hope is more developed than your reading comprehension).


Well I'm not hurt since no facts have been laid out have they! I'm giving you a second chance though. Clearly since you discarded my attempts to "write a novel" with big words and such it's not me that's having trouble with comprehension, and you've consistently ignored my laid out points for you to counter. Instead you just did about 85% of this:

Quote:

It actually went more like this:
You make a false statement
I point out that it's false
You follow up with a completely inaccurate accusation
I correct that accusation
You deny you ever made the accusation and resort back to the false statement
I show you why your original statement is wrong... again
You give up because you have nothing that is backed up by evidence or factual to say


Irony. Love it.

Quote:

And I think your hair is absolutely fabulous, sugar. No further comments on that. Learn to take a compliment! Don't get your panties in a wad over it.


Again, lots of assertions about my current state. I think it's patently obvious which one of us is the more level headed here. We'll let others decide that shall we? I can see my efforts have been largely wasted as you seem more concerned with cyclical repetitions of the same points, presumably in the hope that if you keep hammering away at them they'll suddenly become true. I suggest you go back and actually take part in this discussion though, rather than making it a one way street.
essbee - 23.10.2012 at 06:53  
7.5 is still pretty high, it's between good and very good. This album is not exceptional at all compared to the debut.
Paradox0 - 23.10.2012 at 07:05  
This is really one of those weird personel albums for me. So much wait and anticipation for this to finally release and sadly I think the metal scene has moved on quite a ways since the original plan for a release. I feel that by sitting on this for so long Jari has turned what could have become another shade of the Wintersun project, but 8 years of hype and over production has turned this into his continuing legacy more than anything else. Whether ti was uninspiration, writers block, girl problems, using a laptop edit music, the album just took way too long to create. In that time the metal scene has moved on and the entire symphonic metal style has really exploded in the past 4 years, with bands like Septic Flesh really showing how metal and symphonic elements could transform into something else. Even more so, tons of bands are doing this thing such as Ex Deox Flesh God Apocalypse, heck even Katatonia is going symphonic, and sadly I feel these bands are doing more interesting fusions of symphonic elements in there music. Sadly, from what I've seen done in the past few years has really taken away from the epicness of using symphonic elements in metal.
Void Eater - 23.10.2012 at 07:32  
Reading the arguments between Joe and Italics is a good way to waste the night.
R'Vannith - 23.10.2012 at 07:54  
.........
Well..uh... I agree with the review. Except for the bit about the complexity of it, I think maybe it gives that impression because of the smothering of layers but its a pretty straightforward kind of style I would say. It's designed for immediate accessibility, which it fails to do for me to some extent given its tendency to feel very weighted down. This is power metal more or less, I like it to be easygoing, catchy and uplifting (perhaps even heavy or thrashy if I'm lucky), but this just sounds like it tries too hard to give the same feeling only with what I would describe as a facade of symphonic "complexities".
Dylan - 23.10.2012 at 08:44  
Gonna go ahead and not read these comments. The review sums up my exact feels about this album.
PowerThrash - 23.10.2012 at 08:45  
Wow this is probably the best review I've read on this site. I agree completely, with the score and everything. The first Wintersun album was my favorite EVER for years and although my tastes have evolved quite a bit, I still really like it, but this album just feels unfinished. I feel like if it wouldn't have been split into 2 parts it could have been a really great release. I'm hoping in Time 2 Jari shows off his guitar chops more often, since that is what attracted me to this band in the first place.
essbee - 23.10.2012 at 10:11  
That Italics kid is pretty stupid. Is he always like that?
Dentura - 23.10.2012 at 10:26  
Personally I thought pretty much everything about this album was magnificent. It even surpasses the debut in my opinion (which is still amazing), but this album just takes it over the top and then some. I do feel that the intro is a little bit longer than necessary, but that's about the only real complaint I have for this album. Many people complain that this is overproduced, but I really thought it added to the epic and majestic quality of the album. Overproduction is never really a problem for me anyway, just as long as it adds to the album's atmosphere and sound in anyway. Even though it feels unfinished, it only gets me more excited for the next part to come out so that I can listen to both albums together as a whole. Definitely my personal Album of the Year.
M C Vice - 23.10.2012 at 10:40  
Read this page. Scared to read the others. How does Time compare to the debut?
Marcel Hubregtse - 23.10.2012 at 11:16  
Written by essbee on 23.10.2012 at 10:11

That Italics kid is pretty stupid. Is he always like that?


not that I can remember.

Funny how he considers a festival with a capacity of 3,000 people and which sells out i n 7 minutes (last year), 15 minutes (the year before), a couple of hours (this year, the sale of the tickets was a month earlier than before and on a weekday night instead of the Saturday, and only a third of the bands had been announced) to be catering to just a few hundred so-called facebook fans who never heard the music.
It's actually safe to say the 3,000 attending Roadburn are there FOR the music and not the so-called camaraderie and atmosphere like loads of people attending Wacken (where there are actually people who stay on the camping grounds during the entire fest). The people attending Roadburn I would dare say are most probably more into the music on offer there than most mainstream metallers are into the music at Wacken. Plus they buy a lot more merch as well (especially cd's and vinyl). A Roadburn visitors spends on average some 400 euros on merch during those couple of days.
Yes, over at Roadburn there are always bands one hasn't heard. And guess what? That makes for loads of pleasant surprises, being able to discover cool new music.
My God how boring would a festival be where I know all the bands present. I want to discover new music and not be confronted by music I know through and through.
Zaphod - 23.10.2012 at 11:36  
Written by moe5512 on 22.10.2012 at 23:57

You guys wanna start discussing Wintersun and Time I anytime soon?

HAHAHA You gotta admit this is an enjoyable thread though :p
Marcel Hubregtse - 23.10.2012 at 11:39  
Since mister Italics is so hellbent on naming bands from someone's profile when trying to prove a point...

Let's do it with the bands in his profile which have played the same 3,000 capacity venue which hosts Roadburn every year. And see how they fared there (either in a touring package or in a festival format, such as Roadburn's is)

Sonata Arctica, never had a sold out show there

Rhapsody Of Fire, never had a sold out show there

Katatonia, never had a sold out show there

Anathema, sold out the venue once or twice there, but most of the times didn't sell it out

Nightwish, sold out the venues on quite a few occasions

Kamelot, never had a sold out show there

Children Of Bodom, never had a sold out show there

After Forever, sold out the venue a couple of times

Within Temptation, sold out the venue a couple of times

Sirenia, never had a sold out show there

Ensiferum, never had a sold out show there

The Gathering, only had a sold out show there when they announced a special set with special guests

Delain, never had a sold out show there, can't even sell out a 1,000 capacity venue here, which btw surprises me since it's the sort of poppy metal music fans of female fronted bands seem to lap up. And as far as I know I am othe only one on the staff that really enjoys them (but then again I am very friendly footing with the bass player Otto ever since 1997)

Scar Symmetry, never sold out a single venue in this country

Stratovarius, never sold out a single venue in this country

Leaves' Eyes, never had a sold out show there

Apocalyptica, never had a sold out show there

Arch Enemy, never had a sold out a single venue in this country
Armageddon - 23.10.2012 at 11:53  
Great review, I totally agree. Especially about the "feels unfinished" part. It would be better if Time II was released sooner.

All in all, I liked the debut way more than Time I.
Uldreth - 23.10.2012 at 11:58  
Written by Italics on 23.10.2012 at 03:45

Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 23.10.2012 at 00:30

Thank God for this review of a mediocre album: it's great to see every moron on Metalstorm congregate in one place and have a big old cry that it didn't get 10.


Aaaa, another MSer who will only listen to your band if you are a group of guys living in a basement who nobody has ever heard of. Check out this first line of favorite bands:
Blut Aus Nord, Skullflower, !T.O.O.H.!, The Meads Of Asphodel, Lurker Of Chalice, Murmuüre, Negative Plane, The Ruins Of Beverast, Beherit
I could go to a metal festival and probably no one would have ever even heard of one of these bands... if they had, they'd probably think they sucked. Your musical tastes must just be way too developed for mere earthlings like me to comprehend... in fact, there's probably only a select dozen of you on earth with such developed tastes.

And before you call me a fanboy, I'd probably only rate this album around a 7 (but that's only after one listen).
I'm not a huge Wintersun fan by any stretch of the imagnation... but when I see people calling this "generic" and comparing it to bands like Nightwish and Equilibrium, I lose a little faith in the metal community... until I remember that the opinions of the few people on MS are an awful representation of the actual metal community.

I hope you realize Joe is one of the least elitist users on this site, and if you'd check his ratings, you'd realize he gave very high ratings to very "melodic" bands or bands in "controversial" genres, (such as a 10 to Alive or Just Breathing).

Also out of the bands you singled out, Blut Aus Nord, !T.O.O.H! and The Ruins of Beverast are pretty will known, and I personally have heard about ALL of them by just passively being on the interwebs even if I don't really care about black metal (unless it is swedish melodic bm or is really artsy/subtle like A Forest of Stars, let's say).

You simply appear to have a grudge on extreme metal for some inexplainable reason I don't want to deal with, but you sound more and more like Ponderer with each post.


Also to answer your quote to my post, there is a shitstorm, mainly coming from people who are like OMG HOW CUD U HAVE RATED DIS 7.5 IT IZ A 10 WTF U R NOT BEEING UBJECTHIF M8". Which I know you are not. You are also doing a shitstorm but a different kind of shitstorm.
Marcel Hubregtse - 23.10.2012 at 12:07  
Written by Uldreth on 23.10.2012 at 11:58

being on the interwebs even if I don't really care about black metal (unless it is swedish melodic bm or is really artsy/subtle like A Forest of Stars, let's say).

You simply appear to have a grudge on extreme metal for some inexplainable reason I don't want to deal with, but you sound more and more like Ponderer with each post.



Let me guarantee you Italics is NOT Ponderer, actually Ponderer is fan of way more extreme metal than this Italics guy.
FreddeSwede - 23.10.2012 at 12:08  
After reading some of the ranting between the members back and forth I think many of them are missing a vital point when it comes to Jari as a musician. I don't think he looks upon himself as "a guitarist in a metal band", but rather as "a composer". Wintersun as a band is not just 4 guys playing metal, it's pretty much a 1 man band with session musicians.

Also it all comes down to the same thing as it always does. From whos perspective you look at the music. My relation to Wintersun is problably different to each and every one of the other listeners. And most importantly, Jari's and the bands relation to it is theirs alone. After all, they make the music they want to, regardless to what 1 or 2 or 100 or a 1000 different people think.
Uldreth - 23.10.2012 at 12:10  
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 23.10.2012 at 12:07

Written by Uldreth on 23.10.2012 at 11:58

being on the interwebs even if I don't really care about black metal (unless it is swedish melodic bm or is really artsy/subtle like A Forest of Stars, let's say).

You simply appear to have a grudge on extreme metal for some inexplainable reason I don't want to deal with, but you sound more and more like Ponderer with each post.



Let me guarantee you Italics is NOT Ponderer, actually Ponderer is fan of way more extreme metal than this Italics guy.

I know he isn't, I just said he starts sounding like him
Marcel Hubregtse - 23.10.2012 at 12:19  
Written by Uldreth on 23.10.2012 at 12:10


I know he isn't, I just said he starts sounding like him



sorry for misunderstanding you. I woke up not too long ago,
Slayer666 - 23.10.2012 at 12:54  
I swear, ignorant yet self-proclaimed know-it-alls like this Italics douche are what makes the Internet fun.
Daniell - 23.10.2012 at 13:53  
Ponderer, the guardian of Kamelot. Vonpire, the guardian of Draconian. Italics, the guardian of Wintersun. The cycle never ends, does it? Always a blind fan who will fight tooth and nail for their favourite band, no matter what. So funny and simultaneously pathetic.

Uldreth - 23.10.2012 at 13:55  
Written by Daniell on 23.10.2012 at 13:53

Italics, the guardian of Wintersun.

Well to be fair, he wasn't throwing a tantrum over the review or it's rating, he said he agrees with it, so this isn't really a fair statement.

The reason I think he is similiar to Ponderer is because I remember he was constantly ranting about how "melodic metal is getting "oppressed" on MS" which Italics also does, but no blind fanboyism here.
The Shape 1973 - 23.10.2012 at 13:58  
Written by Daniell on 23.10.2012 at 13:53

Ponderer, the guardian of Kamelot. Vonpire, the guardian of Draconian. Italics, the guardian of Wintersun.

Stevie Wonder the Blind Guardian.
Daniell - 23.10.2012 at 14:02  
Quote:
Written by Uldreth on 23.10.2012 at 13:55


Well to be fair, he wasn't throwing a tantrum over the review or it's rating, he said he agrees with it, so this isn't really a fair statement.


He is throwing a tantrum about other people having a different opinion, so he fits perfectly into the ponderer/vonpire template.

What I find even more ridiculous is people who will cry to high heavens about too low a rating. 7.5 is too low. So they don't even question that someone rated an album lower than them. They almost demand that everyone rate it as high as they did. Not naming names, but a few posters here fit this description.

I know it all too well. I rated Kamelot with a 5.9, and Iron Maiden with a 7.2. What followed was pages and pages of similar remarks. Ponderer even went as far as to write his own reviews of Kamelot and Enslaved to reinforce his opinions
Daniell - 23.10.2012 at 14:04  
Written by The Shape 1973 on 23.10.2012 at 13:58

Written by Daniell on 23.10.2012 at 13:53

Ponderer, the guardian of Kamelot. Vonpire, the guardian of Draconian. Italics, the guardian of Wintersun.

Stevie Wonder the Blind Guardian.


Nice one

I almost forgot one more: Merchant of Doom, the guardian of his own super-elitist opinion
Marcel Hubregtse - 23.10.2012 at 14:05  
Written by Uldreth on 23.10.2012 at 13:55

Written by Daniell on 23.10.2012 at 13:53

Italics, the guardian of Wintersun.

Well to be fair, he wasn't throwing a tantrum over the review or it's rating, he said he agrees with it, so this isn't really a fair statement.

The reason I think he is similiar to Ponderer is because I remember he was constantly ranting about how "melodic metal is getting "oppressed" on MS" which Italics also does, but no blind fanboyism here.


true he wasn't defending Wintersun. It was about melodic and also mainstream metal being oppressed here, when in fact most music featrued here is actually mainstream metal and also melodic metal. And the funny thing is he said my top 2012 list contains unknown black/death metal when in fgact I never had a top 2012 list and if I had it would consist mainly of doom album and some old school death metal and not black metal
Marcel Hubregtse - 23.10.2012 at 14:06  
Written by Daniell on 23.10.2012 at 14:04



I almost forgot one more: Merchant of Doom, the guardian of his own super-elitist opinion


you mean the guardian of totally generic boring Russian funeral doom
cancel - 23.10.2012 at 16:30  
I have to agree, Buz. Just with second part we would be able to rate it more properly. Even though this "fragment" is massive, epic and well-made, still, symphonies changed Wintersun's ability to explain and show all of its melodies and "epicness" just by guitars, keys and Kai's incredible drum skills...
Sword_Chant - 23.10.2012 at 16:50  
I can see what the reviewer is saying here.. but I generally disagree with the score. I think it should be higher than 7.5.. now I expect to be called some kind of Fanboy (only got into the two Wintersun albums recently) lol, but some aspects of this album, I actually prefer them to the S/T. Don't get me wrong, that album and the guitar solos are great, I just think the direction on this one is very interesting. I would give this album between 8.5 to 8.8.. which is what the album score is on MS anyway. This album is quite challenging to review atm, since we don't have our hands on part 2 yet. Let's hope it doesn't take another 8 years...
musclassia - 23.10.2012 at 18:37  
It's quite incredible an album this unspectacular being given a pretty fair rating can bring about this response. I guess if I hadn't heard (m)any other folk/symphonic/extremepower bands I'd probably be raving about this, but it's really a standard mid-tempo folk metal album drowning in layers of orchestrations. It's solid - I gave it an 8 but would be fine giving it a 7 or a 9, it has it's great and less-than-great parts. To the person who said if this was Ensiferum/Equilibrium/Brymir it would be getting better ratings - tbh after listening to Brymir's 2011 album again today, I'd probably be pretty happy giving this a 7.5 compared to that album, and the same applies for Sagas or From Afar. Can't quite believe some of the 'masterpiece' claims for it, but there you go; people could probably argue the same against some of the albums I hold in the same regard
UnknownCheese - 23.10.2012 at 19:02  
Written by musclassia on 23.10.2012 at 18:37

It's quite incredible an album this unspectacular being given a pretty fair rating can bring about this response. I guess if I hadn't heard (m)any other folk/symphonic/extremepower bands I'd probably be raving about this, but it's really a standard mid-tempo folk metal album drowning in layers of orchestrations. It's solid - I gave it an 8 but would be fine giving it a 7 or a 9, it has it's great and less-than-great parts. To the person who said if this was Ensiferum/Equilibrium/Brymir it would be getting better ratings - tbh after listening to Brymir's 2011 album again today, I'd probably be pretty happy giving this a 7.5 compared to that album, and the same applies for Sagas or From Afar. Can't quite believe some of the 'masterpiece' claims for it, but there you go; people could probably argue the same against some of the albums I hold in the same regard


If this were released by any band but Wintersun, I can guarantee there wouldn't be all these people claiming it a 10, "the music of the Universe" or similar comments of great retardation.

At least this thread kept me entertained last night.
Daggon - 23.10.2012 at 19:18  
C'mon guys, I can't remember when was the last time I laughed so hard reading a topic on Metalstorm, I mean it, sadly for me, I have no more popcorn in my kitchen, but oh well, I can't wait for more fanboys to arise from the mounts of layers this album is made of.

I listened to it again, and all I can say is that even if it isn't a bad album, it is not the greatest shit ever or the second coming of the Christ. It doesn't matter if Jari is a composer or a guitarist as someone said before, as I said a long time ago on another thread where fanboys were claiming something about the incredible musicianship of their band:

"With great musicianship, comes great albums"

That being said, I think we must not confuse two things such as compose music and burying an album in layers and layers of synthesizers. At least Wintersun's debut let me listen to some actual riffs and not only some guitar scratching here and there, and I gotta say that not even their debut had a long lasting impression on me.
Yeah, this album feels incomplete, but, c'mon, 8 freaking years have passed, lots of delays and Jari claiming that he needed the aid of a supercomputer from the future to make this album and all we have now is THIS?
And some people dare to say this is not generic? I can write no less than ten similar bands in less than a minute without even thinking about it!

This is not a masterpiece, just another album that will be praised by the media, but that will receive a lot of criticism from careful listeners...
Mr. Doctor - 23.10.2012 at 19:45  
Written by Uldreth on 23.10.2012 at 11:58
I hope you realize Joe is one of the least elitist users on this site


From Joe's profile:
Quote:
Not as elitist as Marcel.


He's pretty elitist. He's just not an asshole about it! Same goes with me tbh...
Sword_Chant - 23.10.2012 at 20:02  
Quote:
To the person who said if this was Ensiferum/Equilibrium/Brymir it would be getting better ratings - tbh after listening to Brymir's 2011 album again today, I'd probably be pretty happy giving this a 7.5 compared to that album, and the same applies for Sagas or From Afar.


What about Ensiferum's 'Unsung Heroes'? Compare that album to 'Time', both came out in the last couple of months... and this is considerably better. (imo)
BitterCOld - 23.10.2012 at 20:37  
My favorite point was Wintersun must be better than "Marcel's music" because it has more fans. Using the same lame argument, Justin Bieber has millions upon millions more fans than Wintersun. guess Wintersun isn't that good at all otherwise they'd be Bieber popular, amirite?

only chiming in for the enjoyment of those playing the MS Drinking Game:

1 sip per infraction:

Each comment that says an official review underrated an album and it should have been scored higher.

2 sips per infraction:

Every time a user bitches about the overall rating of a review not being the result of esoteric calculations including the Performance, Originality, Production and Songwriting ratings.

3 sips per infraction:

Each time someone bitches about a reviewer not being objective.

And from the top level, 5 sips per infraction:

Wintersun releases an album


I didn't bother to check to see if anyone registered for the express purpose of whining about the review, if so, that is 1 drink per. Also marcel insults power metal is 1 per infraction... he did sort of mock symphonic metal, so it's a borderline case (and I should update the drinking game) and those who want to can consume 1 per infraction.
musclassia - 23.10.2012 at 20:41  
Written by Sword_Chant on 23.10.2012 at 20:02

Quote:
To the person who said if this was Ensiferum/Equilibrium/Brymir it would be getting better ratings - tbh after listening to Brymir's 2011 album again today, I'd probably be pretty happy giving this a 7.5 compared to that album, and the same applies for Sagas or From Afar.


What about Ensiferum's 'Unsung Heroes'? Compare that album to 'Time', both came out in the last couple of months... and this is considerably better. (imo)


Eh, I liked Unsung Heroes. It's not in the same league as FA or the early albums by any stretch, but I enjoyed it more than many seemed to. Time I is definitely a better album, but not by a massive stretch. They're both largely mid-tempo, folk/heavily-folk-influenced albums. The main thing Time I has that UH doesn't is this attempt at 'epic-ness', what with the unnecessarily long tracks and the cacophony of symphonic layers; which it doesn't quite pull off IMO - it's a bit of a Dark Knight Rises for me, overly-ambitious in trying to trump it's wildly successful predecessor by trying to 'out-epic' it, but crumbling under its own weight by not having the ability to execute the idea. UH is by no means great, but the 15-minute song aside, feels like it has one foot on the ground and doesn't stretch too far - it's just a decent collection of midpaced extreme folk tunes.
Tbh if I listen to Time I a couple more times, I have the feeling that it might grow on me, but I still don't think it's a great album by any means.
peggazuzz - 24.10.2012 at 00:42  
7.5 is ok, it means almost very good, which actually means he likes the album, one would argue. The problem with MS are that most albums are insanely overrated in regard of point score. 9's are flying around like bullets on the beach of Normandie -44.

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