Rating:
7.5
Wintersun - Time I
19 October 2012


Disc I
01. When Time Fades Away
02. Sons Of Winter And Stars
    1 - Rain Of Stars
    2 - Surrounded By Darkness
    3 - Journey Inside A Dream
    4 - Sons Of Winter And Stars
03. Land Of Snow And Sorrow
04. Darkness And Frost
05. Time
06. [hidden track] [Mediabook & Mailorder edition bonus]

Disc II [DVD] [Mediabook bonus]
+ Time I Live Rehearsals At Sonic Pump Studios
+ Licks & Tricks
+ Sons Of Winter And Stars - Project Demonstration
+ Photo Gallery

Disc III [instrumental CD] [Mailorder edition bonus]
01. When Time Fades Away
02. Sons Of Winter And Stars
    1 - Rain Of Stars
    2 - Surrounded By Darkness
    3 - Journey Inside A Dream
    4 - Sons Of Winter And Stars
03. Land Of Snow And Sorrow
04. Darkness And Frost
05. Time


One of the most highly anticipated albums of the last decade; Time I finally ends the eight year silence, but was the wait worth it?

After the charming Eastern folk influenced introduction, it soon becomes apparent that things have changed with the band in the last eight years. From the album theme of comprehending human emotion and our time on earth to the musicianship and ambitious nature of the orchestrations, Wintersun have aimed for a much grander sound.

Much more symphonic, bombastic even, "Sons Of Winter And Stars" kicks the album off with high spirit and energy. Eight years all of a sudden becomes a little more understandable with the amount of attention to detail and intricate compositions that are so copiously and lavishly interlaced into the music. The musicianship is absolutely top-notch throughout and the closing two minutes of the song provide a wonderfully epic and memorable crescendo.

The album has so many layers, it is deeply ambitious. Time I is an album that has very clearly had so much dedication and effort put into it, but at times it also sounds like Jari has become so consumed with making this the masterpiece everyone wanted that it becomes a little over-indulgent with how complex and dense the compositions are. We are presented a masterclass of orchestration in metal, but it is a challenge to digest and connect with.

With a running time of forty minutes, which includes the introduction and interlude, Time I as a standalone album is very short. The previously mentioned "Sons Of Winter And Stars" and title track "Time" are both great songs and enough to make you crave the second album, but it is hard not to feel underwhelmed when the album seems to cut short. It isn't made any better with a questionable light and quiet production either. Time I then is exactly that; the first of two halves, not the complete article.

The album is mindblowingly impressive in portions, but is just a little too complex and indulgent for its own good. Perhaps along with Time II the picture will become complete, but even though this album has some golden moments - it just feels unfinished alone.

-

Symphonic Extreme Power metal
Nuclear Blast
Finland
Length: 40:07

Performance: 10
Songwriting: 9
Originality: 9
Production: 7


Band profile: Wintersun
Album: Time I


 



Written on 22.10.2012 by
Baz Anderson
Member of Staff since 2006.
More reviews by Baz Anderson ››



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BitterCOld - 24.10.2012 at 03:23  
Written by peggazuzz on 24.10.2012 at 00:42

7.5 is ok, it means almost very good, which actually means he likes the album, one would argue. The problem with MS are that most albums are insanely overrated in regard of point score. 9's are flying around like bullets on the beach of Normandie -44.


depends upon who is doing the reviewing. most staff are far more conservative in doling out big numbers.

i've done 41 reviews this year. one 9. hell, only one of 8.5 or higher.

as far as guest reviewers go, well, there is a reason i popped guest reviews of 9+ on the MS drinking game.
Italics - 24.10.2012 at 03:31  
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 23.10.2012 at 06:51

Don't misconstrue my attempts to challenge you on a vaguely intellectual level as "getting worked up." This is another attempt on your part to attack my presentation (again with another false assertion) whilst avoiding the actual topic at hand and you aren't concealing it very well. If you didn't understand the language I was using you should have taken your time and looked up the words you didn't comprehend (rather than limply dismissing them as incorrect or inappropriate. Just makes you look like a pleb).


You still seem worked up based off of your language and lengthy responses... but by all means, if you want to insist that you're not upset, be my guest. It reminds me of a person screaming "I'M NOT F***ING ANGRY!!!"
And I understood your "points" (weak as they are) plenty fine... I just found your misspellings and awkward grammar amusing. That's all. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 23.10.2012 at 06:51
It's the only one thing I said was fact. I haven't tried to portray opinion and guess work as fact, like you have. Unlike you I'm clear on what i'm trying to say.


I'll leave the irony of this one untouched.

Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 23.10.2012 at 06:51

On the contrary it's an ideal example.


Actually no, no it's not. Realistically, you know it's not, too - but I'm not expecting you to admit to that any time soon. All it did was prove that a genre that truly is "noise" attracts more fans than the mindless drivel that you fill your ears with.
Again - it's hard for me to tell at times whose cause you're trying to further here. I should just let you debate yourself from here on out... it'd be more effective AND more entertaining. It's like the whole "fun AND educational" thing... you know... two birds, one stone.

Anyway, what I'm REALLY trying to say here is... thank you for agreeing with me on this one.

Oh, and by the way... I got a chuckle (literally, I did!) out of you saying "I like how you ignored my second example" and then proceeding to quote my response to your second example. Well done, soldier! Your foot is gonna look like swiss cheese by the time we're done here...

To the idea that I don't "understand" your "music":
1) There is nothing much to dissect with the music you enjoy. 99% of it is noise. You yourself - if I were to remove the tags from all your songs - would probably be incapable of telling one song from the next. It's wildly unpopular - even less popular (as you kindly demonstrated for me already - again, thanks!) than some of the most unpopular genres on the planet.
2) You obviously feel that you have some sort of advanced taste in music that 99.99% of humans don't have... I get that. It doesn't make you any less wrong.
3) All lists look better with three items

(Oh, and by the way, your original argument with the bands I picked was that I was selective or had some sort of agenda with who I chose. After I pointed out that I just took the first line, you conveniently changed your tune. I'm loving the flip-flopping... it truly is election season!
Regardless... I could have chosen virtually any line out of your list and gotten the same result.)

Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 23.10.2012 at 06:51

It actually went more like this:
You make a false statement
I point out that it's false
You follow up with a completely inaccurate accusation
I correct that accusation
You deny you ever made the accusation and resort back to the false statement
I show you why your original statement is wrong... again
You give up because you have nothing that is backed up by evidence or factual to say


Thanks for using my own words to portray an idea that you were not adequately able to put into words yourself. Are you beginning to see why I'm having a hard time distinguishing whose side you're on here?

Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 23.10.2012 at 06:51
Again, lots of assertions about my current state. I think it's patently obvious which one of us is the more level headed here.


Yes... you have been extremely level-headed. Hence the constant name-calling of "butthurt" (about?) and the angsty+lengthy responses you've made for me.
(PS - I said your hair was fabulous and you still object. What does it take to please you?)
Italics - 24.10.2012 at 03:36  
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 23.10.2012 at 11:39

Since mister Italics is so hellbent on naming bands from someone's profile when trying to prove a point...

Let's do it with the bands in his profile which have played the same 3,000 capacity venue which hosts Roadburn every year. And see how they fared there (either in a touring package or in a festival format, such as Roadburn's is)

Sonata Arctica, never had a sold out show there

Rhapsody Of Fire, never had a sold out show there

Katatonia, never had a sold out show there

Anathema, sold out the venue once or twice there, but most of the times didn't sell it out

Nightwish, sold out the venues on quite a few occasions

Kamelot, never had a sold out show there

Children Of Bodom, never had a sold out show there

After Forever, sold out the venue a couple of times

Within Temptation, sold out the venue a couple of times

Sirenia, never had a sold out show there

Ensiferum, never had a sold out show there

The Gathering, only had a sold out show there when they announced a special set with special guests

Delain, never had a sold out show there, can't even sell out a 1,000 capacity venue here, which btw surprises me since it's the sort of poppy metal music fans of female fronted bands seem to lap up. And as far as I know I am othe only one on the staff that really enjoys them (but then again I am very friendly footing with the bass player Otto ever since 1997)

Scar Symmetry, never sold out a single venue in this country

Stratovarius, never sold out a single venue in this country

Leaves' Eyes, never had a sold out show there

Apocalyptica, never had a sold out show there

Arch Enemy, never had a sold out a single venue in this country


I'm both flattered and concerned that you'd take the time to research all of this just to respond to lil' ol' me.
Flattered that you care so much and that I've got you so worked up.
Concerned that you have nothing better to do. If you need a friend, I'm only a phone call away...

Anyway, no need for me to delve into this one too much. You're attempting to prove to me that Meads of Asphodel are more popular/better than Sonata Arctica because they played/sold out at some random venue. Actually... you're comparing a festival to a single band... so your research is actually MORE concerning than I had thought originally since it holds not just a REMOTE amount of relevance - but actually NO relevance or significance at all.

You've really outdone yourself.
Italics - 24.10.2012 at 03:48  
Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 23.10.2012 at 12:19

Written by Uldreth on 23.10.2012 at 12:10


I know he isn't, I just said he starts sounding like him



sorry for misunderstanding you. I woke up not too long ago,


Then you honestly should stop staying up so late researching stuff so you can "counter" me. Now I literally am becoming concerned for you. I should stop posting in this thread solely for your physical well-being.
Void Eater - 24.10.2012 at 07:10  
Written by Daggon on 23.10.2012 at 19:18

And some people dare to say this is not generic? I can write no less than ten similar bands in less than a minute without even thinking about it!

Could you possibly make such a list please? And why is this Italics douche not banned/his posts removed?
!J.O.O.E.! - 24.10.2012 at 08:04  
Written by Void Eater on 24.10.2012 at 07:10

And why is this Italics douche not banned/his posts removed?

If people could be banned for making unquantifiably poor, self-oriented arguments and being stuck in a total loop then he would be banned, but unfortunately (really) that's not a crime here.

It's like arguing with a goldfish; you can yell, shout and reason with it all you want. It doesn't matter; the same points, the same total and complete nonsense and aimless drivel will be brought up again with no recourse.
Doc Godin - 24.10.2012 at 08:30  
This took 8 years to make? I mean it's ok, but to me it feels like a handful of interludes amongst 3 aimless, meandering tracks, too long for their own good.

That being said, it's basically the same reaction I had to the first album; enough interesting parts to pull me in, but not enough substance to keep me interested.

It's ok, that's about it.
!J.O.O.E.! - 24.10.2012 at 09:13  
Written by Italics on 24.10.2012 at 03:31


You still seem worked up based off of your language and lengthy responses... but by all means, if you want to insist that you're not upset, be my guest. It reminds me of a person screaming "I'M NOT F***ING ANGRY!!!"

Umm, if you say so?

Quote:
And I understood your "points" (weak as they are) plenty fine... I just found your misspellings and awkward grammar amusing. That's all. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

Umm, what awkward spellings and grammar? (please, educate me)

Quote:

I'll leave the irony of this one untouched.

What irony?

Quote:

Actually no, no it's not. Realistically, you know it's not, too - but I'm not expecting you to admit to that any time soon. All it did was prove that a genre that truly is "noise" attracts more fans than the mindless drivel that you fill your ears with.

What? When did you prove anything?

Quote:
Again - it's hard for me to tell at times whose cause you're trying to further here. I should just let you debate yourself from here on out... it'd be more effective AND more entertaining. It's like the whole "fun AND educational" thing... you know... two birds, one stone.

What? This is a non-sequitur of no meaning about anything.

Quote:

Anyway, what I'm REALLY trying to say here is... thank you for agreeing with me on this one.

Eh? When did this happen?

Quote:

Oh, and by the way... I got a chuckle (literally, I did!) out of you saying "I like how you ignored my second example" and then proceeding to quote my response to your second example. Well done, soldier! Your foot is gonna look like swiss cheese by the time we're done here...


Seriously...: What? What in God's drivel are you even on about?

Quote:

To the idea that I don't "understand" your "music":
1) There is nothing much to dissect with the music you enjoy. 99% of it is noise. You yourself - if I were to remove the tags from all your songs - would probably be incapable of telling one song from the next. It's wildly unpopular - even less popular (as you kindly demonstrated for me already - again, thanks!) than some of the most unpopular genres on the planet.

Apparently, according to your rating, you've only ever listened to Immortal (which you gave the minimum scores). So what would you know about my music seeing as you chose it arbitrarily and have never listened to any of it?

Quote:

2) You obviously feel that you have some sort of advanced taste in music that 99.99% of humans don't have... I get that. It doesn't make you any less wrong.

Actually I feel like I have advanced KNOWLEDGE of music that you NEVER had. I think 99.99% of people could comprehend my tastes. You are part of the 00.01% that could not.
Quote:

(Oh, and by the way, your original argument with the bands I picked was that I was selective or had some sort of agenda with who I chose. After I pointed out that I just took the first line, you conveniently changed your tune. I'm loving the flip-flopping... it truly is election season!

What? What on high heaven are you on about?

Quote:

Thanks for using my own words to portray an idea that you were not adequately able to put into words yourself. Are you beginning to see why I'm having a hard time distinguishing whose side you're on here?

I'm on the side of reason, sanity and clarity. What side are you on?

Quote:
Yes... you have been extremely level-headed. Hence the constant name-calling of "butthurt" (about?) and the angsty+lengthy responses you've made for me.


I'm not the one clasping at bizarre, made up arguments and non-points that never existed

This dialogue has been... educational.
HumanSpirit - 24.10.2012 at 09:26  
Written by Alex Fenger on 22.10.2012 at 21:32

Written by Guest on 22.10.2012 at 21:30


You should... You never know how many excellent (or very bad) albums/bands are there you haven't heard so far.

I would say it's more safe to say Wintersun are among the best than calling them average. There are tons of average to bad bands... But there aren't tons of excellent bands out there.

You're right, there are tons of average to bad bands, and Wintersun are among them


After a little peek at your fave bands and seeing Mastodon among them, you can't be taken srsly. Sorry kid, you need to learn about music.
HumanSpirit - 24.10.2012 at 09:37  
Written by malaikat on 23.10.2012 at 02:27

Metalstorm staff trying to sound all edgy® and progressive™;
Metalstorm users trying to hide fanboyism and innability to provide decent argument on both sides;

Yep another glorious thread on MS.



lol. Check mate. Cheers mate, you deserve a cold one.
M C Vice - 24.10.2012 at 10:43  
When is someone just gonna use the closing track from Gold Cobra?

Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 24.10.2012 at 08:04

Written by Void Eater on 24.10.2012 at 07:10


It's like arguing with a goldfish;

Re-name him Klaus?
Marcel Hubregtse - 24.10.2012 at 11:27  
Written by Italics on 24.10.2012 at 03:36




Anyway, no need for me to delve into this one too much. You're attempting to prove to me that Meads of Asphodel are more popular/better than Sonata Arctica because they played/sold out at some random venue.


Meads Of Apshodel?

where in God's name did I ever mention them? First off they never played that venue here and secondly I would never go see them.

Random venue?
Nope, totally not, 013 in Tilburg was chosen because they programme ALL sorts of metal (besides pop, jazz and other music) and is the best known metal venue in The Netherlands with the best sound system, best lay-out etc etc. But you wouldn't know since you don't live here.
And I was comparing the bands playing the exact same venue where most of them have played in festivals as well and those festivals didn't sell out, whereas Roadburn sells out every single year (with like I said last year in a record breaking 7 minutes).

Quote:

Actually... you're comparing a festival to a single band...


Almost all the bands mentioned also played different sorts of festivals in 013 and not a single one of those festivals sold out.

I am sure that Sonata Arctica and all those bands are more popular than the bands I go to see, but live they don't draw any substantial crowds either. Most probably because fans of popular bands are usually not as dedicated seeing the bands they like live when you compare them to fans of so-called totally unpopular bands.
Marcel Hubregtse - 24.10.2012 at 11:57  
Written by Italics on 24.10.2012 at 03:48



Then you honestly should stop staying up so late researching stuff so you can "counter" me. Now I literally am becoming concerned for you. I should stop posting in this thread solely for your physical well-being.


so now all of a sudden you're an expert on someone's health and how long they should sleep and how they should spend their days off?

As for "countering" at least I come up with fatcs unlike you, sir.

You are one funny little man.
Alex Fenger - 24.10.2012 at 14:29  
Written by HumanSpirit on 24.10.2012 at 09:26

After a little peek at your fave bands and seeing Mastodon among them, you can't be taken srsly. Sorry kid, you need to learn about music.

So you're saying that because I enjoy Mastodon my opinion can't be taken seriously? That's like me telling everyone on this page that since they enjoy Wintersun they can't be taken "srsly". Learn how to spell and learn how to deal with people having differing opinions.
MeloDeathViking - 24.10.2012 at 15:19  
Well, back to the review/album here. I agree with Baz on the fact that the album seems almost in complete. I love the music that's on it, but I feel like we won't know what the album truly sounds like until Time II comes out. I believe they are probably two pieces of one whole. First thing I do when Time II comes out is make a playlist of I & II together and listen to it in order.
Daniell - 24.10.2012 at 15:38  
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 24.10.2012 at 15:19

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 24.10.2012 at 11:27

Anyway, no need for me to delve into this one too much. You're attempting to prove to me that Meads of Asphodel are more popular/better than Sonata Arctica because they played/sold out at some random venue.


Except The Meads of Asphodel have never played live. Ever. Nice little knowledge fail there my little goldfish friend.


Joe, I think you wanted to quote a different person...
!J.O.O.E.! - 24.10.2012 at 15:39  
Written by Italics on 24.10.2012 at 03:36

Anyway, no need for me to delve into this one too much. You're attempting to prove to me that Meads of Asphodel are more popular/better than Sonata Arctica because they played/sold out at some random venue.


Except The Meads of Asphodel have never played live. Ever. Nice little knowledge fail there my little goldfish friend.
fanapathy - 24.10.2012 at 15:41  
Get a room guys. Is this even occasionally being modded
Mr. Doctor - 24.10.2012 at 16:10  
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 24.10.2012 at 15:39

Written by Italics on 24.10.2012 at 03:36

Anyway, no need for me to delve into this one too much. You're attempting to prove to me that Meads of Asphodel are more popular/better than Sonata Arctica because they played/sold out at some random venue.

Except The Meads of Asphodel have never played live. Ever. Nice little knowledge fail there my little goldfish friend.


DEAR LORD!

They must be AWFUL because they don't play life therefore there's no audience... so no fans... DAMN your bands really SUCK.
!J.O.O.E.! - 24.10.2012 at 16:13  
Written by Mr. Doctor on 24.10.2012 at 16:10


DEAR LORD!

They must be AWFUL because they don't play life therefore there's no audience... so no fans... DAMN your bands really SUCK.

Yep, clearly no one would ever go to their shows because no one likes them.
Oriax - 24.10.2012 at 16:30  
WTF! A 2 day old Review and its already got 197 comments!?!

Just to point something out here (that might already have been mentioned..?)
The Average of your rating (10 I 9 I 9 I 7) = 8.75 / 10
Ag but I agree with your score never the less.
Marcel Hubregtse - 24.10.2012 at 16:45  
Written by Oriax on 24.10.2012 at 16:30



Just to point something out here (that might already have been mentioned..?)
The Average of your rating (10 I 9 I 9 I 7) = 8.75 / 10



Yes, and it has been explained that those four together do not necessarily make up the final score
Alex Fenger - 24.10.2012 at 16:52  
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 24.10.2012 at 09:13

Holy shit quoting

This amused me, i didn't know when it was going to end
HumanSpirit - 24.10.2012 at 23:02  
Written by Alex Fenger on 24.10.2012 at 14:29

Written by HumanSpirit on 24.10.2012 at 09:26

After a little peek at your fave bands and seeing Mastodon among them, you can't be taken srsly. Sorry kid, you need to learn about music.

So you're saying that because I enjoy Mastodon my opinion can't be taken seriously? That's like me telling everyone on this page that since they enjoy Wintersun they can't be taken "srsly". Learn how to spell and learn how to deal with people having differing opinions.


English is NOT my main language (thank God) but your argument is EXACTLY what I mean.

Written by Alex Fenger on 24.10.2012 at 14:29
learn how to deal with people having differing opinions.


You dont like Wintersun? Fine, nobody will get hurt but implying they are an average band just because you dont like them? Are you even a musician? I bet a six pack you arent...

So, practice what you preach kid. You dont like a band, good, but don't go around thinking you are a music know-it-all when your own taste is rather questionable.

Cheers.
Mr. Doctor - 24.10.2012 at 23:17  
Written by HumanSpirit on 24.10.2012 at 23:02

Written by Alex Fenger on 24.10.2012 at 14:29
learn how to deal with people having differing opinions.

You dont like Wintersun? Fine, nobody will get hurt but implying they are an average band just because you dont like them? Are you even a musician? I bet a six pack you arent...
So, practice what you preach kid. You dont like a band, good, but don't go around thinking you are a music know-it-all when your own taste is rather questionable.
Cheers.


He's not a musician... so what?
So if you want to...Let's say: Give your thoughts about a movie. You have to be a director, right? Or at least have quite some experience in the whole movie industry, right?
Because that's what you are saying... and It's retarded. He can say whatever he wants about any band... and so can you! I alsoI don't remember reading anywhere that he claimed he was a "know-it-all" so the "practice what you preach" argument is not really valid here.

Also... Man, you must have some sad inferiority problems if you dismiss someone's opinion just because of a band they listen to.
Alex Fenger - 25.10.2012 at 01:08  
Written by HumanSpirit on 24.10.2012 at 23:02


English is NOT my main language (thank God) but your argument is EXACTLY what I mean.

Written by Alex Fenger on 24.10.2012 at 14:29
learn how to deal with people having differing opinions.


You dont like Wintersun? Fine, nobody will get hurt but implying they are an average band just because you dont like them? Are you even a musician? I bet a six pack you arent...

So, practice what you preach kid. You dont like a band, good, but don't go around thinking you are a music know-it-all when your own taste is rather questionable.

Cheers.

I am absolutely and utterly confused by your statements. What does me (not) being a musician have to with anything? I don't go around thinking I am a music "know-it-all"... you were the one who stated that my opinion was de-validated by my liking of Mastodon. You don't like Mastodon, I happen to, and that lead you to believe that my opinion couldn't be taken seriously, that's completely unreasonable. Also I didn't realize that English wasn't your primary language, I was being slightly closed minded by assuming so, so sorry for attacking your spelling
HumanSpirit - 25.10.2012 at 01:50  
Written by Alex Fenger on 25.10.2012 at 01:08

Written by HumanSpirit on 24.10.2012 at 23:02


English is NOT my main language (thank God) but your argument is EXACTLY what I mean.

Written by Alex Fenger on 24.10.2012 at 14:29
learn how to deal with people having differing opinions.


You dont like Wintersun? Fine, nobody will get hurt but implying they are an average band just because you dont like them? Are you even a musician? I bet a six pack you arent...

So, practice what you preach kid. You dont like a band, good, but don't go around thinking you are a music know-it-all when your own taste is rather questionable.

Cheers.

I am absolutely and utterly confused by your statements. What does me (not) being a musician have to with anything? I don't go around thinking I am a music "know-it-all"... you were the one who stated that my opinion was de-validated by my liking of Mastodon. You don't like Mastodon, I happen to, and that lead you to believe that my opinion couldn't be taken seriously, that's completely unreasonable. Also I didn't realize that English wasn't your primary language, I was being slightly closed minded by assuming so, so sorry for attacking your spelling


Dont worry about the spelling thing, common problem in international websites lol.

What I meant with my musician statment is that you cant go around saying " X band is an average band"... What are your bases? On what argument? And thats why I brought Mastodon to the mix here, I dont like them, I really dont appreaciate their music BUT I DONT SAY THEY ARE AN AVERAGE, BAD, SHIT OR ADJECTIVE YOU WANT BAND.

That's the main issue... Im not defending Wintersun, I like em yeah but it's not my band lol Im just making a point out here that everyone has different tastes.

Now back to Wintersun, to be honest I did get a little butthurt, I wont say "Wintersun music is the most complex metal in the world omg omg" nah... But in composition and song writting they are actually very structural and (If I may) progressive... (except the lyrics, I cant stand any more "IM SO SAD AND IM FREEZING" kind of shit lol)

Anyway, I wasnt trying to start a fight or anything bro, Im chill... You cant take the interwebz srsly.



btw, I only quoted you and answered straight to you and wont waste my TIME (lol) on Mr. Doctor. Again... this wasnt a internet fight. Cheers mate.
Mr. Doctor - 25.10.2012 at 02:15  
Written by HumanSpirit on 25.10.2012 at 01:50
What I meant with my musician statment is that you cant go around saying " X band is an average band"... What are your bases? On what argument?


That's the thing dude... What base? What argument?

He doesn't need one... it's called an opinion. If he finds it average and boring. That's how it is to him. The same way you find Mastodon awful and just the same way I really don't like broccoli... I don't need any basis for taste, if you don't like it you just don't and the beautiful thing is that you DO have the right to say it out loud if you feel like it.

Just to be clear... I'm not fighting with you. I'm just commenting on something. It's a forum after all so hopefully you won'y take my comments as a personal attack.
Mastodon sucks to you, Alex finds Wintersun an average band and I really can't stand Broccoli. It's all the same thing really. I doubt Alex will get pissed off if you say Mastodon sucks. It's your opinion, dude! You can say whatever the hell you like!
Dark Cornatus - 25.10.2012 at 03:21  
I rated the album between 7.5-8 and i'll briefly explain why now after several listens.

The songs are very good, but are HEAVILY saturated by symphonics, which blend the vocals and guitars together. The music is so saturated that none of it 'stands out' as being an independent part except maybe the intro to the album and the opening riff off track 3. So what we have is GOOD music, but is so blended together it can be a little boring and seems to drag on a bit. I was thinking at first, 'maybe i just need to listen to it as i would classical music', but it's not exactly the same thing.

I think the score is lowered also because there is only 30 odd minutes of actual full songs. Had they have thrown in some beefier songs in between these, it may have worked a lot better?

Overall, it's a great album, i don't see much fairness in rating it below a 7 or above a 9. If you rated it below a 7 you are listening to the wrong genre clearly. If you rated it above a 9 you must find that 30 minutes of song pure masterpieces as to compensate for the shortness of the album (which is not going to be the case).
nanogasm - 25.10.2012 at 03:56  
My first listen I was disappointed that the guitar work and harsh vocals took the background with the symphonic riffs and clean vocals taking the fore, but I've come to really enjoy the ethereal sound. And when the songs do glimmer with their 'old' sound, it accentuates the composition with good punch.

I noticed this album needs a good sound system to enjoy. There is a lot of modulation and decibal effects which become awkward to listen to on a crap system. Jari seems to deliberately create muffled segments within songs to make the crisp follow-ups stand out that much stronger. I found a huge difference on my high end system that can handle the layering and sampling.

The album is short but you can tell a boatload of work was put into it. Perhaps a bit too much - like an artist who keeps adding and adding with the goal of perfection, but failing to realize that artistic beauty is often best captured in simplicity of form. It's not that the song writing is complex - in fact it's fairly simple. It's the sound engineering that is complex.

The songs flow meticulously well with one another, despite twisting from japanesque instrumental to epic folk to symphonic melodic. Perhaps too many styles under one hood for most, but I'm definitely digging this release. Well wroth the wait IMO.
BoxCar Willy - 25.10.2012 at 06:20  
Listened to it one more time ( ) and almost want to drop my rating to a 4, I honestly can't believe it took him 8 years to make this. It's disappointing to me, and I wasn't even expecting much.
Amatsu Mikaboshi - 25.10.2012 at 16:05  
He plays on the left..... He plays on the raiiiiight!!!
That boy Jari! Made Ensiferum look shite!!
Amatsu Mikaboshi - 25.10.2012 at 16:13  
I thought you didn't like Wintersun before Baz?
Daniell - 25.10.2012 at 16:26  
Written by Dark Cornatus on 25.10.2012 at 03:21

Overall, it's a great album, i don't see much fairness in rating it below a 7 or above a 9. If you rated it below a 7 you are listening to the wrong genre clearly. If you rated it above a 9 you must find that 30 minutes of song pure masterpieces as to compensate for the shortness of the album (which is not going to be the case).


I can't agree with such a strong statement. I found Wintersun's debut quite decent, so I rated it with a 7, whereas this one is a bit of a letdown, so I gave it a 6. In my opinion it's still not as bad as some people imply, but it's undeserving of the hype that surrounds it. I suppose many people are seduced by the rich sound of the album, and the technical prowess of the musicians. They indeed are impressive, but they can't hide the fact that the songs aren't as good as the band's performance.
Mattybu - 25.10.2012 at 19:52  
Written by BoxCar Willy on 25.10.2012 at 06:20

Listened to it one more time ( ) and almost want to drop my rating to a 4, I honestly can't believe it took him 8 years to make this.


I doubt this album is of 4 quality, I mean obviously if you're out desecrating graves and buying disposable cameras to photograph dead friends it's not a good soundtrack, but it must be at least average. but that aside I agree the 8 years is pretty ridiculous. if you're gonna make 5 minutes of music per year every second of the album better be jam packed with magical things xD
Ernis - 25.10.2012 at 19:59  
Thanks for the review, Baz. I think you found the best possible rating. I agree that it does sound good but it certainly is overrated because of the hype created during those eight years. I found Tyr's "Ragnarök" more polyphonic and spellbinding than "The Sons of Winter and Stars"... yep... lots of cheese... even more than in Nightwish...

Written by opeth771 on 22.10.2012 at 23:14

An average score is supposed to be an average score which in this case is 8.7 or 8.8 if you round it. 7.5 doesn't make any sense but I agree with the rest of the review


It amazes me that so many people still think that the average score is calculated by using the ratings for performance, songwriting, originality and production. Example: the performance is good, the songwriting is professional, the music is original and the production is crystal-clear but the album and music just DO NOT stand out enough to deserve a 10 even though the four parameters qualify for a 10. You really thought reviewers take out their calculators when they've finished writing?

Written by Guest on 22.10.2012 at 21:33

Then you're deaf... Sorry to say that.

Let's say you like Megan Fox and I like Keira Knightley... will you say I'm blind just because I prefer Keira Knightley and not Megan Fox?

Other than that... how come this thread's got five pages? Most of it probably some off-topic drama... guys, spend more time outside!
EW - 26.10.2012 at 06:22  
Written by Ernis on 25.10.2012 at 19:59


Let's say you like Megan Fox and I like Keira Knightley... will you say I'm blind just because I prefer Keira Knightley and not Megan Fox?



You must be blind if you prefer Keira Knightly. Wayyy too skinny.

This album did feel way too short and incomplete. like having a cheesy burger with no fries and coke, I'm not completely satisfied. Plus the whole 2 album release thing feels like a cash grab to me.
advent - 26.10.2012 at 14:19  
Written by Daniell on 25.10.2012 at 16:26

Written by Dark Cornatus on 25.10.2012 at 03:21




I can't agree with such a strong statement. I found Wintersun's debut quite decent, so I rated it with a 7, whereas this one is a bit of a letdown, so I gave it a 6. In my opinion it's still not as bad as some people imply, but it's undeserving of the hype that surrounds it. I suppose many people are seduced by the rich sound of the album, and the technical prowess of the musicians. They indeed are impressive, but they can't hide the fact that the songs aren't as good as the band's performance.

agree, but i have to add that he focused in the wrong direction, layering , mixing and production more than songwriting ,composing and instruments , and that is a big flaw and i think that 8 years made him overworked the album not adding to it.
essbee - 26.10.2012 at 22:41  
By Italics logic we should all listen to pop instead of metal because it is more popular, therefore better.
!J.O.O.E.! - 26.10.2012 at 22:57  
Written by essbee on 26.10.2012 at 22:41

By Italics logic we should all listen to pop instead of metal because it is more popular, therefore better.

Exactly. He never did explain that particular argument (or any of his arguments really).
Mr. Doctor - 27.10.2012 at 01:30  
Written by !J.O.O.E.! on 26.10.2012 at 22:57
Exactly. He never did explain that particular argument (or any of his arguments really).


Why would he bother? He clearly beat you!
Ernis - 27.10.2012 at 01:36  
Written by EW on 26.10.2012 at 06:22

You must be blind if you prefer Keira Knightly. Wayyy too skinny.

This album did feel way too short and incomplete. like having a cheesy burger with no fries and coke, I'm not completely satisfied. Plus the whole 2 album release thing feels like a cash grab to me.


I like Keira because she's got a gorgeous face and everything about her is so feminine and graceful... sure I'd like her tits and backside a bit perkier... still, better slimmer than too plump... of course, once again, the perfect body means nothing if the face is homely or there are other factors that make her unattractive...

Back to the album... why did they release it as an album in the first place? Could've made an EP or something...
Grody2themax - 27.10.2012 at 02:31  
Written by Mr. Doctor on 24.10.2012 at 23:17

He's not a musician... so what?
So if you want to...Let's say: Give your thoughts about a movie. You have to be a director, right? Or at least have quite some experience in the whole movie industry, right?
Because that's what you are saying... and It's retarded. He can say whatever he wants about any band... and so can you! I alsoI don't remember reading anywhere that he claimed he was a "know-it-all" so the "practice what you preach" argument is not really valid here.

Also... Man, you must have some sad inferiority problems if you dismiss someone's opinion just because of a band they listen to.


Yes...but when you have experience, then your opinion tends to start to have more value, and a stronger basis. Everyone is allowed to their own opinion on something.

Regarding the review, through listening to one song, I almost agree with the main idea of the review. It seems that there are so many different things going on, but it seems to lack many strong hooks and great songwriting, which was exhibited on the first one. This feels like it was written with a few boring ideas, then about 50 other tracks thrown on top of it to fill out sound.
Mr. Doctor - 27.10.2012 at 02:34  
Written by Grody2themax on 27.10.2012 at 02:31
Yes...but when you have experience, then your opinion tends to start to have more value, and a stronger basis. Everyone is allowed to their own opinion on something.


That's pretty obvious... I just start to have problems when people imply that the only way to have an opinion about art is if you are an artist yourself. Which is by all means: Bullshit.
Grody2themax - 27.10.2012 at 02:46  
Written by Mr. Doctor on 27.10.2012 at 02:34

Written by Grody2themax on 27.10.2012 at 02:31
Yes...but when you have experience, then your opinion tends to start to have more value, and a stronger basis. Everyone is allowed to their own opinion on something.


That's pretty obvious... I just have problem when people imply that the only way to have an opinion about art is if you are an artist yourself. Which by all means: Bullshit.


Agreed, being a musician can actually work against your favor in forming opinions. For example, you can say, "bebop is the most complex form of music, look at all of the music theory behind their work, everything else is pale in comparison", and then they could go on to try to force themselves to like grandpa jazz. In this very common case, the musician is misguided not just in music, but in life in general. He/she probably has a terrible opinion on music.

I have a problem when non musicians imply that every musician is pretentious. I'm not accusing you of this though.
Mr. Doctor - 27.10.2012 at 02:52  
Written by Grody2themax on 27.10.2012 at 02:46

Agreed, being a musician can actually work against your favor in forming opinions.


A good example of that is when bands tell everyone they play x genre... where said genre couldn't be more off.
Grody2themax - 27.10.2012 at 03:09  
Written by Mr. Doctor on 27.10.2012 at 02:52

A good example of that is when bands tell everyone they play x genre... where said genre couldn't be more off.



Well, sort of agreed. When a band sets out to write x genre, and plays just that, it can sound pretty boring a lot of times. Opeth might be a good example of what you brought up, but they happen to have arguably one of the most authentic sounds in metal.
Mr. Doctor - 27.10.2012 at 03:11  
Written by Grody2themax on 27.10.2012 at 03:09
Well, sort of agreed. When a band sets out to write x genre, and says they play it, it can sound pretty boring a lot of times. Opeth might be a good example of this, but they happen to have arguably one of the most authentic sounds in metal.


I was thinking more about bands like Dissection who said their last album was Black Metal and Children Of Bodom said the same thing at some point... Or Bring Me The Horizon that they played grindcore.
Grody2themax - 27.10.2012 at 04:46  
Written by Mr. Doctor on 27.10.2012 at 03:11

Written by Grody2themax on 27.10.2012 at 03:09
Well, sort of agreed. When a band sets out to write x genre, and says they play it, it can sound pretty boring a lot of times. Opeth might be a good example of this, but they happen to have arguably one of the most authentic sounds in metal.


I was thinking more about bands like Dissection who said their last album was Black Metal and Children Of Bodom said the same thing at some point... Or Bring Me The Horizon that they played grindcore.


Children of Bodom was sort of black metal influenced at one point imo, and I think they always said they would classify themselves as just metal. But I'd rather not get into a stupid argument over that lol.

My point is that the last part of your statement is not of any value to this discussion because BMTH are not musicians.
Parasomnia - 27.10.2012 at 09:45  
Personally, I waited until I'd listened to the whole album 9 or 10 times through to say if I liked it or not. Just like any extremely complex/layered music, it takes a long time for everything to sink in and for the melodies to start to catch.. but once they do, it's hard to stop listening. Excited for part 2, especially "The Way of the Fire."

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