Written by LeKiwi on 04.10.2013 at 17:31

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.10.2013 at 17:29

Even what one deems talent is a highly subjective matter. For one it already varies a lot from genre to genre.

Not at all. If the style is easy to perform, it requires little talent. Simple as that

Written by LeKiwi on 04.10.2013 at 01:43

Too much reverb in the vocal mix to hear what he actually sounds like :S

Written by Erik M. on 04.10.2013 at 17:32

Even though it's not specifically in your description, you have mentioned multiple times that a vocalist needs to be versatile. But now you're basically indirectly saying that you don't think Patrick Walker is superior at his particular vocal style?

Written by Guest on 04.10.2013 at 17:34

Yet you have Uneven Structure's vocalist on the list. By most definitions a very normal vocalist layered with effects and reverb. I like Uneven Structure but I would not cite the vocalist is a standout talent in any way. This itself highlights the weakness in your argument about talent being an objective viewpoint.

Written by LeKiwi on 04.10.2013 at 17:37

I've never stated that have I? I've not made a proper update in a long time. I'm at university. I have things to do. Patrick may or not see his presence on this list. If someone thinks I'm doing this list wrong or untimely they can do it themselves in all honesty.

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 04.10.2013 at 17:33

that would mean only avantgarde jazz has talent in it

Written by LeKiwi on 04.10.2013 at 17:46

Check out the song I linked for Uneven Structure halfway through where there are hardly any effects used other than the normal reverb most vocalists use. Even if I am unable to objectively decide which vocalists are talented, the fact remains that talent is objective. That being said, it's very possible that some of my list is subjective. I can't help being human

Written by Erik M. on 04.10.2013 at 17:47

You said "If the vocalist clearly superior at a particular vocal style then I'll add him, i.e. Stefan from Wolverine". Seeing as you haven't added and might never add Patrick Walker, it means you don't think he is great at his particular vocal style. And that right there would be totally baffling to me, since whether you like his vocals or not, he's clearly doing a great job in the vocal department. And yes, you said you might add him, but since you haven't done that by now means you're not convinced (yet) that he should be here. In the end it's your own choice of course, but then just change the name of the list into: "My Favourite Vocalists In Metal" or something like that.

Written by Guest on 04.10.2013 at 17:48

If "talent" truly is objective, then perhaps you could please explain the existence of Britain / America's Got Talent.

Written by LeKiwi on 04.10.2013 at 17:53

You're not understanding. If I want to add someone to this list, I want to do it correctly, with the perfect song at hand or obtainable in the foreseeable future. In the case of Patrick, I much enjoyed his vocals on Warning, honestly. So please discontinue with the argument of "you dislike him." I'm busy, however when the time comes I'll sit down and properly check out several of the vocalists you mentioned since I know what I'm looking for in the songs.

Written by Erik M. on 04.10.2013 at 17:58

Well, the song "Watching From a Distance" by Warning might be the best choice for this list. I know you're searching for the "perfect" song, but sometimes a song like that simply doesn't exist.

Written by Erik M. on 04.10.2013 at 16:49


No offence, but I find your suggestions absolutely hilarious. Why? Because LeKiwi obviously isn't interested in doom metal vocalists, as is clear just by looking at the vocalists that he has chosen for this list. I know this is annoying since I said it many times, but the lack of vocalists like Patrick Walker or Aaron Stainthorpe (yes Marcel, I know he can be whiny but he's still a great vocalist ) is kind of baffling to me. I also know I said I'd help in finding the right songs, which I tried, but I think you (LeKiwi) are looking for songs that simply don't exist.

Written by mz on 05.10.2013 at 01:24

Regarding the subjective VS objective thing, I thing any list which include words like "great, talented, heavy, favorites, crushing etc" are subjected. What you consider as talent might be an extremely ordinary ability in other's point of view. Only list like "all metal albums published in 2008", "all male guitarist","drummers who can play on 300 bpm" are objective (hell even "metal" could be a subjective word).
The other thing is that I do not think that the creator of list is an expert in singing field. No offence to his intentions but I think that he, like most of the others on this site including myself, is just an avid, yet casual metal listener and noting more. In the other words, he does not have any standard to measure the level of talent of vocalists ( I do not personally believe in such thing, but he seems so)

Written by LeKiwi on 05.10.2013 at 18:37

Written by mz on 05.10.2013 at 01:24

my comment

your explanation

Quote:

This includes the vocalist's ability to write aurally appealing vocal lines

Written by Marcel Hubregtse on 05.10.2013 at 19:03

if ever there was something subjective it's this.
What are aurally appealing vocals lines to one person can be total aural hell to another.

Written by mz on 05.10.2013 at 18:57

But the fact that I consider wintersun's vocals both in extreme and clean parts very generic and annoying at some parts and not especial at all and you have put that guy in your list indicates that "talent" is an subjective term. IMO term like "talented guitarist" is much vaguer " technical guitarist" . Also, by your description, you indirectly suggest that the number of talented vocalists in progressive/avantgarde genre is more than all other genres together, which I do not agree at all. Finally, one can not have the same standard for judging vocal talent in progressive metal and let's say, doom or black metal.

Written by LeKiwi on 05.10.2013 at 19:46

Annoying has nothing to do with the criteria, must I repeat that so frequently? Sure, his screams aren't impressive, they are simply average. However, he has an insane range which alone is pretty talented, whether you enjoy it or not matters not. He has so many different tones between screams and cleans at his disposal that at times it seems as if two or more vocalists have performed on a particular track. I would specifically link parts of songs for the sake of argument, but I can't be bothered at the moment, just listen to the song I have linked for Jari above and save me the trouble.

Additionally, you are making misguided inferences. I just stated in my previous reply to you that this list is limited in scope. I will explain it simply. I enjoy progressive metal. Most of the music I listen to is progressive metal. When I look for music, I tend to look for progressive metal. I tend to avoid genres like doom and black. Due to this, I will never discover all the talented vocalists in metal. Hence, the existence of the suggestion "scheme."

I dislike playing this condescending game, if you would still like to discuss anything about this list, PM me and we can settle it over there.

Written by mz on 05.10.2013 at 20:28

I am not going to bother with a PM discussion and do not leave any more comments here as well. Let's agree to disagree.
BTW, I am more than familiar with wintersun and do not need to check that song you've posted
[/end discussion]

Written by mz on 05.10.2013 at 18:57

Finally, one can not have the same standard for judging vocal talent in progressive metal and let's say, doom or black metal.

Written by LeKiwi on 05.10.2013 at 21:00


There is no disagreement, all I have stated has yet to be refuted and still stands.

Written by mz on 05.10.2013 at 21:06

you can think so, but no one else believes in what you've stated here

Written by LeKiwi on 05.10.2013 at 21:14

Written by mz on 05.10.2013 at 21:06

you can think so, but no one else believes in what you've stated here

No one? Five people (those who have discussed with me on this page) do not constitute the entire MS population

Written by mz on 05.10.2013 at 22:16

fair enough, but at least you can say that a great portion of users who contributed in this list and had suggestions for you are very disappointed by your lack of interest in understanding obvious facts

Written by LeKiwi on 05.10.2013 at 21:00


There is no disagreement, all I have stated has yet to be refuted and still stands.

Quote:
Talent, as I stated before, refers to a level of aptitude or skill which in high levels enables a person to excel at a particular activity (or activities) which proves arduous to imitate for those who lack such talent. It's as simple as that. This means, that although talent cannot be accurately measured as a value, it can be gauged relative to other levels of talent. Continuing to imitate several of these vocalists' styles, I can appreciate which ones are difficult to perform. I am not making a claim to supremacy, any vocalist who endeavors to excel can conclude the same.

Written by Guest on 06.10.2013 at 12:46

Written by LeKiwi on 06.10.2013 at 15:41

He has an incredible range, very resonant lows, shrieking highs, and to top it off he applies vocal fry in a subtle manner which is no easy task.

Written by Kuroboshi on 06.10.2013 at 10:28

Hey, I agree with many of your choices. Especially Devin. Methinks Mikael Akerfeldt and Dan Swano should have a star though.

Some vocalists I think should be on the list as well.
Tobias Netzell: "For You To Know"
Mortuus: "Cold Mouth Prayer" (Marduk) (Probably my favorite vocalist, awesome live to. "Baptism by Fire!!!")
Dani Filth: "Her Ghost in the Fog" (A lot of hate for this guy I guess, but his vocal span is amazing. Trying to do his high pitches at the karaoke is vocal chord suicide.)
Andy Schmidt: "Back to Times of Splendor" (Disillusion)
Burton Bell: "Final Exit" (Fear Factory)

Personally, I love Johannes Persson's screams (for example "Back to Chapel Town") and Lord K's growls ("At the Entrance to Hell's Unholy Fire"), but they're not that versatile I guess.