Mixed feelings about the singles they've released so far. Not bad songs, but neither exceptional. It's a pity, 'cause they have the potential to write much better music

I love Soen but lately they sound like pop-group.

Not a bad song, very catchy but quite light in the musical department. Im unmoved mostly, I don't mind a pop-shift but it needs to be better.

Written by mamukatet on 23.08.2023 at 20:02

I love Soen but lately they sound like pop-group.

If by lately you mean everything after Lykaia, then yes, I'm right there with you. They used to be one of my faves, but I absolutely hate them now

Written by Guib on 23.08.2023 at 20:07

Not a bad song, very catchy but quite light in the musical department. Im unmoved mostly, I don't mind a pop-shift but it needs to be better.

How can a pop shift be better??? Please explain 🤨🤨🤨

Written by BCI on 24.08.2023 at 07:19

Written by Guib on 23.08.2023 at 20:07

Not a bad song, very catchy but quite light in the musical department. Im unmoved mostly, I don't mind a pop-shift but it needs to be better.

How can a pop shift be better??? Please explain 🤨🤨🤨

What I don't understand is how can any shift of style or approach be considered good or bad simply for the principle of it? Have it be pop or not, it absolutely doesn't matter to me. The quality of the music is what should be judged and how interesting it sounds. I'm not even sure why I have to debate this still in 2023 tbh with you.

The fact that so many metalheads are still scared of a band being too catchy or mainstream or "turning pop" is absolutely baffling to me. Pop doesn't equal bad, it never did. It only goes to show how narrow minded the community can be.

Then again, it is not only for "pop" but any changes in a band's style within the confines of metal seems to personally hurt metalheads lol. As if the only way of making music is to never change your sound and be exactly the same throughout your entire musical career. Good examples for this are In Flames and Gojira. You can critique a song for its qualities, but not for its genre or because it tries to explore a new sound/approach. Sure some will fall flat, like this Soen single IMO. But some work like a charm, like Gojira's Magma album. Or even any catchy radio friendly song made by Mastodon (ex: Show Yourself, Curl Of The Burl...) they're all great really.

People need to open their horizons and stop feeding pointless biases & expectations. That mindset kills creativity big time. Who cares if it goes "pop" when its good? More power to those bands for reaching the masses, showcasing music we love and even better if it brings Heavy Metal to the uninitiated ears.

So to answer your question it can be better just like it can be worse. Depending on the songwriting. Lotus & Imperial were great, this single... is not.

^ We should put this comment on the front page somehow.

Btw, I also find the singles released so far to be rather lower in quality, compared to what they did on Lotus and Imperial.

Written by BCI on 24.08.2023 at 06:45

Written by mamukatet on 23.08.2023 at 20:02

I love Soen but lately they sound like pop-group.

If by lately you mean everything after Lykaia, then yes, I'm right there with you. They used to be one of my faves, but I absolutely hate them now

Imperial imo is incredible and I'd rank it above any of Soen's other albums, and any of the bands many people say they copy. That is partly because of the simple songwriting direction, the strong melodies, and the emotive chord progressions, which are all results of this 'pop' shift you speak of.

Written by nikarg on 24.08.2023 at 09:56

^ We should put this comment on the front page somehow.

Can you imagine the angry spam I'd get
The Thrash Maniac is a "sellout" and a "poser"!

Written by Guib on 24.08.2023 at 07:40

Written by BCI on 24.08.2023 at 07:19

Written by Guib on 23.08.2023 at 20:07

Not a bad song, very catchy but quite light in the musical department. Im unmoved mostly, I don't mind a pop-shift but it needs to be better.

How can a pop shift be better??? Please explain 🤨🤨🤨

What I don't understand is how can any shift of style or approach be considered good or bad simply for the principle of it? Have it be pop or not, it absolutely doesn't matter to me. The quality of the music is what should be judged and how interesting it sounds. I'm not even sure why I have to debate this still in 2023 tbh with you.

The fact that so many metalheads are still scared of a band being too catchy or mainstream or "turning pop" is absolutely baffling to me. Pop doesn't equal bad, it never did. It only goes to show how narrow minded the community can be.

Then again, it is not only for "pop" but any changes in a band's style within the confines of metal seems to personally hurt metalheads lol. As if the only way of making music is to never change your sound and be exactly the same throughout your entire musical career. Good examples for this are In Flames and Gojira. You can critique a song for its qualities, but not for its genre or because it tries to explore a new sound/approach. Sure some will fall flat, like this Soen single IMO. But some work like a charm, like Gojira's Magma album. Or even any catchy radio friendly song made by Mastodon (ex: Show Yourself, Curl Of The Burl...) they're all great really.

People need to open their horizons and stop feeding pointless biases & expectations. That mindset kills creativity big time. Who cares if it goes "pop" when its good? More power to those bands for reaching the masses, showcasing music we love and even better if it brings Heavy Metal to the uninitiated ears.

So to answer your question it can be better just like it can be worse. Depending on the songwriting. Lotus & Imperial were great, this single... is not.

You're missing my point and I think you see in me something that isn't there. It's also quite obvious how toxic the metal community is, by the number of people liking your long-winded "telling me off" rant.

The reason someone likes a band in the first bloody place, is because of what they sound like. That's how it starts. Also you used the phrase "pop-shift" not me.

And yes, most popularised music is rubbish and that is a fact, and not because it's not "metal", but mainly because it's made to be easily digestible by certain types of media, and to fill album and song contract quotas.

So a prog band, dropping all off their prog sounds for simplistic clichés is worse by default.
I like the intro riffs and overall atmosphere, but the soft and sad choruses completely kill all the energy for me.

I hope I've made myself a little more clear this time around.

And no, I'm not "old school" not "elitist". A quick look at my favourite bands and albums should convince you of that, if you actually care.

Written by 24emd on 24.08.2023 at 10:25

Written by BCI on 24.08.2023 at 06:45

Written by mamukatet on 23.08.2023 at 20:02

I love Soen but lately they sound like pop-group.

If by lately you mean everything after Lykaia, then yes, I'm right there with you. They used to be one of my faves, but I absolutely hate them now

Imperial imo is incredible and I'd rank it above any of Soen's other albums, and any of the bands many people say they copy. That is partly because of the simple songwriting direction, the strong melodies, and the emotive chord progressions, which are all results of this 'pop' shift you speak of.

I think you need to re-read my comment. I never said anything about a pop-shift.

Written by BCI on 24.08.2023 at 21:37

Written by Guib on 24.08.2023 at 07:40

Written by BCI on 24.08.2023 at 07:19

Written by Guib on 23.08.2023 at 20:07

Not a bad song, very catchy but quite light in the musical department. Im unmoved mostly, I don't mind a pop-shift but it needs to be better.

How can a pop shift be better??? Please explain 🤨🤨🤨

You're missing my point and I think you see in me something that isn't there.

The reason someone likes a band in the first bloody place, is because of what they sound like. That's how it starts. Also you used the phrase "pop-shift" not me.

And yes, most popularised music is rubbish and that is a fact, and not because it's not "metal"...

Reading your reply, I don't think I've missed your point at all and I'm not pointing specifically at you but its a rethoric that I often see.

Just your "most popularised music is rubbish and that is a fact" statement is proving my point. How is it a fact? How most of it is rubbish? According to whose authority does popular and successful music become rubbish? I disagree completely with you. Simple, repetitive and more digestible is not a synonym of rubbish or bad. I mean that is not solely seen in pop anyways. Electronic, industrial, grunge, punk rock, etc... This idea seems to be driven by your own bias and concept of what "good music" should be and how it should be done. Nowhere near a fact, I'm sorry.

Whats the limit of that vision of music anyways? Should we only listen to free jazz, tech-death, goregrind and classical music because its the most intricate or hard to digest stuff and therefore, not "rubbish"? I believe that we'll probably have to agree to disagree on this.

Also yes, people like a bloody band for what they are, that is true. But a band not evolving and changing stagnates and eventually becomes bland and uninspired, especially bands with long careers. And they end up only playing their older stuff anyways so whats the point. Sure, I'll grant to you that this can also happen to bands experimenting. But I don't blame them really... How can you keep being creative when you do the same goddamn thing again and again expecting the same result. That would drive anyone mad

Finally yes I did say pop-shift but you asked me a question to which I replied, also bringing context to my answer.

And yeah you can call it a "long winding rant" or perhaps just someone explaining their thoughts or opinion. Idk you pick I guess. Whatever makes you feel better about it.

Written by BCI on 24.08.2023 at 21:41

Written by 24emd on 24.08.2023 at 10:25

Written by BCI on 24.08.2023 at 06:45

Written by mamukatet on 23.08.2023 at 20:02

I love Soen but lately they sound like pop-group.

If by lately you mean everything after Lykaia, then yes, I'm right there with you. They used to be one of my faves, but I absolutely hate them now

Imperial imo is incredible and I'd rank it above any of Soen's other albums, and any of the bands many people say they copy. That is partly because of the simple songwriting direction, the strong melodies, and the emotive chord progressions, which are all results of this 'pop' shift you speak of.

I think you need to re-read my comment. I never said anything about a pop-shift.

I think you need to re-read the comment you agreed with. The user said Soen now sounds like a pop group, and you agreed, saying you absolutely hate them now for it. I only used 'pop shift' because that's the word that was being used in the conversation.

Simply, I dislike Soen's early material, and think they got better with each album, and you think quite the opposite. Nothing wrong with that. The only problem here is as Guib stated, defining how good a band's evolution is on principle.

And I most certainly don't think you're an elitist, you're more likely to hear that word from an offended fanboy who can't accept that someone doesn't like the same music as them. I personally felt the need to reply, partly because of seeing a couple of your other posts giving a 3 to some albums and holding one criticism against them: too poppy. Now I'm a pretty lazy commenter too, so I'll let blunt criticism slide now and then (and at least you fleshed out your point of view in one of them).

Don't take this as a personal attack, I just felt that 'absolutely hate them now' was unnecessarily harsh wording.

Written by BCI on 24.08.2023 at 21:37

It's also quite obvious how toxic the metal community is, by the number of people liking your long-winded "telling me off" rant.

Since I was one of the people who upvoted Guib's comment, I feel the need to inform you that upvoting a comment on Metal Storm does not have the same meaning as on Instagram; this is not a social media platform. It means "I agree with what you wrote", or, in other instances and depending on the case, "I am acknowledging the content of your comment". How agreeing with someone's opinion makes the community "toxic" is beyond me. The other thing that's baffling to me is how you interpret as "rant" a detailed and argumentative explanation, which is what you asked for in the first place. But this doesn't concern me anyway.

Written by BCI on 24.08.2023 at 21:37

And yes, most popularised music is rubbish and that is a fact, and not because it's not "metal", but mainly because it's made to be easily digestible by certain types of media, and to fill album and song contract quotas.

So The Beatles, for example, were rubbish. To each his own, and that is a fact, indeed.

Written by nikarg on 25.08.2023 at 01:28

Written by BCI on 24.08.2023 at 21:37

It's also quite obvious how toxic the metal community is, by the number of people liking your long-winded "telling me off" rant.

Since I was one of the people who upvoted Guib's comment, I feel the need to inform you that upvoting a comment on Metal Storm does not have the same meaning as on Instagram; this is not a social media platform. It means "I agree with what you wrote", or, in other instances and depending on the case, "I am acknowledging the content of your comment". How agreeing with someone's opinion makes the community "toxic" is beyond me. The other thing that's baffling to me is how you interpret as "rant" a detailed and argumentative explanation, which is what you asked for in the first place. But this doesn't concern me anyway.

Written by BCI on 24.08.2023 at 21:37

And yes, most popularised music is rubbish and that is a fact, and not because it's not "metal", but mainly because it's made to be easily digestible by certain types of media, and to fill album and song contract quotas.

So The Beatles, for example, were rubbish. To each his own, and that is a fact, indeed.

A 4 paragraph response to a single sentence question, is a rant. I'm honestly not surprised that you don't get it, though.

Using the Beatles as an example for popularised music in 2023 is hilarious. Just Google something like "why modern music sucks" and you'll even get results of scientific studies trying to explain this common grievance among music lovers. It's not news.

As for your social platform comment, I really hope that it was one. The more the merrier, if your know what I mean.

I'm not getting into this discussion but I always find it funny when "fans" start crying because a band they like change their sound, especially if they go softer. Except for Soen, Leprous also comes to mind. I also don't see why these "fans" have to cry about it in public and then can't handle a response that doesn't agree with them. If you don't like the change in direction, just don't listen to it, just stick to the older stuff and keep the complaints to yourself because nobody actually cares about your opinion.
This isn't pointed to anyone specific so no one needs to feel attacked. I'm just generally speaking.

Written by BCI on 25.08.2023 at 08:00

A 4 paragraph response to a single sentence question, is a rant. I'm honestly not surprised that you don't get it, though.

Would you have preferred a one-sentence reply after asking Guib to "Please explain"? He gave an explanation after you explicitly asked him to do so. Calling it a rant afterwards... if nothing else it gives off the impression that you are looking for anything to dismiss his comment.

Written by Nejde on 25.08.2023 at 09:16

I'm not getting into this discussion but I always find it funny when "fans" start crying because a band they like change their sound, especially if they go softer. Except for Soen, Leprous also comes to mind. I also don't see why these "fans" have to cry about it in public and then can't handle a response that doesn't agree with them. If you don't like the change in direction, just don't listen to it, just stick to the older stuff and keep the complaints to yourself because nobody actually cares about your opinion.
This isn't pointed to anyone specific so no one needs to feel attacked. I'm just generally speaking.

This is going too far in the other direction. For my part, I welcome "complaints" about changes in style and sound, so long as those are well-articulated. There's a middle-ground that I feel we should all be welcome to tread between pointless accusations of a band becoming "too pop" when they're expanding their creative horizons and between blind denial and defense of a band that are selling out with no creativity to speak of.


More on topic: the song is as forgettable as it gets.

Written by Nejde on 25.08.2023 at 09:16

I'm not getting into this discussion but I always find it funny when "fans" start crying because a band they like change their sound, especially if they go softer. Except for Soen, Leprous also comes to mind. I also don't see why these "fans" have to cry about it in public and then can't handle a response that doesn't agree with them. If you don't like the change in direction, just don't listen to it, just stick to the older stuff and keep the complaints to yourself because nobody actually cares about your opinion.
This isn't pointed to anyone specific so no one needs to feel attacked. I'm just generally speaking.

I agree with Metren that this is too far in the other direction; dismissiveness towards any change in musical approach that boils down to 'different/soft = bad' is obviously reductive and artistically counterproductive, but 'If you don't like the change in direction... keep the complaints to yourself because nobody actually cares about your opinion' is the kind of approach for a forum that is going to result in echo chambers, and invalidate any dissenting opinions. All of us are susceptible to feeling and expressing negative sentiments about particular music, and as long as it's done in good faith I'd say such sentiments are as valuable, if not more so, than blind praise. Leprous is an interesting example, as since they've gone softer, they've released Pitfalls, which I don't like, Aphelion, which I do like, and Einar Solberg's done a solo album 16, which I also like; I feel equally justified in voicing my dislike of Pitfalls as I do in stating what I enjoy about the other two records.

I'm just gonna say I enjoy both Soen's older and newer stuff. Yes, these singles are more catchy and radio friendly, but I don't see the problem with that. The term "pop" confuses me a bit though.

Written by musclassia on 25.08.2023 at 22:06

I agree with Metren that this is too far in the other direction; dismissiveness towards any change in musical approach that boils down to 'different/soft = bad' is obviously reductive and artistically counterproductive, but 'If you don't like the change in direction... keep the complaints to yourself because nobody actually cares about your opinion' is the kind of approach for a forum that is going to result in echo chambers, and invalidate any dissenting opinions. All of us are susceptible to feeling and expressing negative sentiments about particular music, and as long as it's done in good faith I'd say such sentiments are as valuable, if not more so, than blind praise. Leprous is an interesting example, as since they've gone softer, they've released Pitfalls, which I don't like, Aphelion, which I do like, and Einar Solberg's done a solo album 16, which I also like; I feel equally justified in voicing my dislike of Pitfalls as I do in stating what I enjoy about the other two records.

Fair enough. And to clarify, of course you can state what you dislike about a musical change of direction a band takes, but it's more a matter of how you present it. Explain what you dislike instead of just whining about it. I find complaining just for the sake of it annoying. But hey, that's just me.

Just amazing

Violence is OK, but its got a bit of a Nickelback vibe to it. Now I am not a Nickelback hater like many, but its not what I'm looking for from Soen. Oh well, not a terrible song and I've liked the other couple of singles so far. It's hard for any of it to compete with Lotus for me.