I'm glad I watched the Colonel Kurtz video of the interview with the woman that was with the Shelly chick. ( I think that's her name) Seems like she was just drunk and passed out because she was enjoying herself right after. Even said Till didn't touch her plus there's video of her grabbing Joe harassing him. She seems sketchy herself, I'm hoping the other allegations isn't true and they are being exaggerated like Colonel Kurtz said. Hopefully they get rip of this row 0 stuff to avoid anything like this happing again. I don't want to keep seeing this because I still love their music regardless, just don't like seeing this. Also the Till Lindemann celebrates sexual violence against women in this porn video which I think their talking about either is just ridiculous ( I think it was, Till the end) I'm sure they don't know what the song is actually about.

Written by VileVick-Bryant on 04.06.2023 at 12:15

I'm glad I watched the Colonel Kurtz video of the interview with the woman that was with the Shelly chick. ( I think that's her name) Seems like she was just drunk and passed out because she was enjoying herself right after. Even said Till didn't touch her plus there's video of her grabbing Joe harassing him. She seems sketchy herself, I'm hoping the other allegations isn't true and they are being exaggerated like Colonel Kurtz said. Hopefully they get rip of this row 0 stuff to avoid anything like this happing again. I don't want to keep seeing this because I still love their music regardless, just don't like seeing this.

I was just about to post a request to the community to refrain from victim blaming and framing and there you are. You may have realized that this news post carefully avoids taking sides and condemning either of the parties involved. We ask our community to do the same. This is in response to "she seems sketchy".

Pressing charges of sexual assault against anyone is usually a very big deal for victims. You have experienced a situation that very much happened to you, not with you very quickly and that takes time to process and frame. If you then press charges against a famous person, you automatically face backlash from not only men in general but especially the fans of that person who can't deal with this kind of change in their para-social relationship to the alleged perpetrator.
I would very much like Metal Storm to be a place where we - if not side with victims - at least don't automatically assume their claims are false. Pressing sexual assault charges is very rarely done easily and can completely destroy the lives of victims while perpetrators (with very few exceptions) usually return to the stage, the big screen, the sports field with their reputation largely unscathed.
The least that we as a community can do is hear people out that feel they have been wronged and be open to their claims. The metal scene is extremely sexist and often toxic towards women and this will never change if we don't hold people accountable for their behavior. If anything, this reporting can help sensitize people for situations like this. Because quite a number of reported cases of sexual assault in the music scene seem to follow the same play book.

As for whether you can still enjoy their music, that's entirely up to you. Death of the Author is a complex concept that everybody has to find their own approach to it. I respect people who deal with situations like this and find new approaches to enjoy art by artists who come out as assholes. You can listen to a band without generating revenue for them just as you can read Harry Potter without buying the books new. There's a spectrum of options and finding one's own way to deal with stuff like this can take some time.

Written by corrupt on 04.06.2023 at 12:49

I was just about to post a request to the community to refrain from victim blaming and framing and there you are. You may have realized that this news post carefully avoids taking sides and condemning either of the parties involved. We ask our community to do the same. This is in response to "she seems sketchy".

Pressing charges of sexual assault against anyone is usually a very big deal for victims. You have experienced a situation that very much happened to you, not with you very quickly and that takes time to process and frame. If you then press charges against a famous person, you automatically face backlash from not only men in general but especially the fans of that person who can't deal with this kind of change in their para-social relationship to the alleged perpetrator.
I would very much like Metal Storm to be a place where we - if not side with victims - at least don't automatically assume their claims are false. Pressing sexual assault charges is very rarely done easily and can completely destroy the lives of victims while perpetrators (with very few exceptions) usually return to the stage, the big screen, the sports field with their reputation largely unscathed.
The least that we as a community can do is hear people out that feel they have been wronged and be open to their claims. The metal scene is extremely sexist and often toxic towards women and this will never change if we don't hold people accountable for their behavior. If anything, this reporting can help sensitize people for situations like this. Because quite a number of reported cases of sexual assault in the music scene seem to follow the same play book.

As for whether you can still enjoy their music, that's entirely up to you. Death of the Author is a complex concept that everybody has to find their own approach to it. I respect people who deal with situations like this and find new approaches to enjoy art by artists who come out as assholes. You can listen to a band without generating revenue for them just as you can read Harry Potter without buying the books new. There's a spectrum of options and finding one's own way to deal with stuff like this can take some time.

I was pretty natural when I first heard the Shelly one until her admitting that Till didn't do anything and the interview Colonel Kurtz with her friend. It's the other allegations I'm worried about, I haven't taken any sides on those. (That's why I said I hope the other allegations are not true and they are being exaggerated by the media.) That's not me taking sides that's me noting wanting this stuff to actually happen at all. If I was I would be saying they are all lying straight out. Me not fully believing shelly's story after what I seen isn't me not making a big deal of sexual assault. It's just her story and the interview Colonel Kurtz did with her friend made her less credible. Everyone else I haven't disagree or agreed with so this is not me choosing sides. I do agree with your third paragraph by the way.

What are "Till Lindemann’s actions that humiliate women in the aforementioned porn"? Is this related to some bdsm porn in which consentual humiliation is practiced?

Written by mz on 04.06.2023 at 15:34

What are "Till Lindemann’s actions that humiliate women in the aforementioned porn"? Is this related to some bdsm porn in which consentual humiliation is practiced?

I think their talking about the video that goes to that one song he made in his project Na Chui. It's called Till the end, the song has real footage of Till doing some woman. Yea it's shocky but it does have meaning.I believe it's a part 2 to Platz Eins.

Cmon guys everything in these days could be a sexual assaulting victim or victimizer, the style and the music of Rammstein talk about that in a bunch of songs, it all depends on what you think about it all of us has a different prism… And one more thing… everyone can ruin your life if they want to….

What I've learned during the last couple of years is to reserve my judgment until the trial is over. I mean, it could go one way or the other and I don't know shit about any of the case's details. I can only put my faith in the German justice system and hope for a fair trial, no matter how it turns out.

Written by Brutal Water on 05.06.2023 at 12:30
What I've learned during the last couple of years is to reserve my judgment until the trial is over. I mean, it could go one way or the other and I don't know shit about any of the case's details. I can only put my faith in the German justice system and hope for a fair trial, no matter how it turns out.

If it comes to a trial. The judicial system is notoriously bad at protecting victims of sexual harassment and sexual assault. A fair trial is very rarely had and perpetrators are routinely acquitted even if judges make believe that harassment/assault did take place according to their statements.
That‘s why it‘s important to believe victims pressing charges and support them. That‘s not judging, that‘s solidarity. People in power like famous musicials have enough of a lobby already. Even here in this thread people‘s first reaction is doubt, even though multiple independent cases were brought forth that all tell more or less the same story.

Written by Brutal Water on 05.06.2023 at 12:30

I can only put my faith in the German justice system and hope for a fair trial, no matter how it turns out.

Sure, but what trial are you talking about?
All we know is that Shelby Lynn received a cease and desist letter from Rammstein's lawyer and that she talked to the Lithuanian police. Neither has anything to do with a German trial.

Written by corrupt on 04.06.2023 at 12:49

You can listen to a band without generating revenue for them just as you can read Harry Potter without buying the books new. There's a spectrum of options and finding one's own way to deal with stuff like this can take some time.

I took a second to wonder why anyone would bring up Harry Potter in this context. It's deplorable you can't call a spade a spade these days, without offending some minority group that wants everyone to jump on the bandwagon of political correctness. Why is this being discussed anyway is madness.
I also wonder why anyone would accept very serious accusations that aren't backed by anything else than photographic evidence (you could be prone to getting bruises by your nature or get them yourself) or a practice of picking select females backstage that isn't strictly criminal. You go in at your own free will. What happens while inside is consensual and as I understand the verbatim statements made by the girl there is nothing criminal that happener. However, she is implying something that might be construed as a likely defamation, so are you surprised she got a C&D letter?

"Victim blaming?" A victim of what precisely? Her own naiveity? If you go to a bar, can you blame the owner you got drunk? Did she have drinks stuffed down her neck? I did not find any such statment. She thinks she got a "spiked" (awful term) drink but could have easily overdone with alcohol. I never blamed it on drugs (which I abhor) when I passed out after a drink too many. That happens if your body isn't used to drinking regularly. Why can't this far simpler explanation be the case here? They serve you drinks backstage, sure, you may be invited to a consensual intercourse, why not, isn't that what the metal and rock stars always did and wrote millions of songs about? Till was pissed off if we are to believe her account and understandably, who wouldn't be, but being asked to have sex does not make you a victim, FFS! Assuming you leave inebriated and with blackouts could easily be attributed to alcohol without evidence to the contrary. Implying you get a drink with a pill to stand down your guard requires hard evidence, not an account of a girl that could easily mistake her symptoms with the effects alcohol has. An account is not enough.

I fail to find a shred of evidence that a crime took place. When you raise your accusations in public, on twitter without hard evidence, people ask questions in the court of public opinion. Why hasn't she chosen a different court is unclear. A court is impartial and does not take sides. Why do you take them in favour of a girl who cannot produce credible evidence? Her account against Till could be financially motivated. Doesn't it occur to you it could be a case of blackmail? The outcome of is a divided public opinion, and worse of all a smeared reputation, which Till can sue her for. Cases like this should not be pursed in public without evidence to back your case up. In this case Till being the victim of a witchhunt, as no evidence has come to light that it isn't fabricated or intended to defame.

The girl should handle this via her lawyer and the authorities. And if she can't prove anything? Well too bad, starting a lynch mob against any alleged wrongdoer isn't a viable alternative. Why smear a reputation based on hearsay and why take sides based only on an account and nothing else of substance? And suppose she's a pathological liar would you still side with her? Recall the Decapitated trial for a similar accusation.
1
If all there is some bruises that could not possible be borne without touching (yes, alluding to one twitter of hers here) and no sign of illicit substances in her blood sample (if she had the mind to take those), it could all be made up. When accusations are produced in public, one must assume a scenario she is a financially motivated attention seeker.

To those that noticed this account is new: the hasty PC, cancel-culture style views expressed earlier that aren't new on this site triggered me to respond, but not affiliated with Till or Rammstein or even a fan though I listened to them. I used to post reviews here but my prior accounts were lost due to forgotten passwords.

As I understand any judgements require a cool head. Far too many people, especially shouting hackneyed phrases like "victim blaming" are quick and eager to point fingers without putting a statement at its face value.

It's innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. I'm against handling such cases on twitter, the public is rarely a fair judge.

Written by Starvynth on 05.06.2023 at 13:15

Written by Brutal Water on 05.06.2023 at 12:30

I can only put my faith in the German justice system and hope for a fair trial, no matter how it turns out.

Sure, but what trial are you talking about?
All we know is that Shelby Lynn received a cease and desist letter from Rammstein's lawyer and that she talked to the Lithuanian police. Neither has anything to do with a German trial.

I must have missed the part about Lithuania. I thought the whole thing was gonna take place in Germany.

Written by corrupt on 05.06.2023 at 13:12

Written by Brutal Water on 05.06.2023 at 12:30
What I've learned during the last couple of years is to reserve my judgment until the trial is over. I mean, it could go one way or the other and I don't know shit about any of the case's details. I can only put my faith in the German justice system and hope for a fair trial, no matter how it turns out.

If it comes to a trial. The judicial system is notoriously bad at protecting victims of sexual harassment and sexual assault. A fair trial is very rarely had and perpetrators are routinely acquitted even if judges make believe that harassment/assault did take place according to their statements.
That‘s why it‘s important to believe victims pressing charges and support them. That‘s not judging, that‘s solidarity. People in power like famous musicials have enough of a lobby already. Even here in this thread people‘s first reaction is doubt, even though multiple independent cases were brought forth that all tell more or less the same story.

Well, after Johnny Depp, Marilyn Manson and the guy from Rick & Morty, does it really surprise you that everybody's first reaction is doubt? It's better to doubt than to jump to conclusions and getting innocent people fired.

Written by Brutal Water on 05.06.2023 at 17:25

Written by Starvynth on 05.06.2023 at 13:15

Written by Brutal Water on 05.06.2023 at 12:30

I can only put my faith in the German justice system and hope for a fair trial, no matter how it turns out.

Sure, but what trial are you talking about?
All we know is that Shelby Lynn received a cease and desist letter from Rammstein's lawyer and that she talked to the Lithuanian police. Neither has anything to do with a German trial.

I must have missed the part about Lithuania. I thought the whole thing was gonna take place in Germany.

Written by corrupt on 05.06.2023 at 13:12

Written by Brutal Water on 05.06.2023 at 12:30
What I've learned during the last couple of years is to reserve my judgment until the trial is over. I mean, it could go one way or the other and I don't know shit about any of the case's details. I can only put my faith in the German justice system and hope for a fair trial, no matter how it turns out.

If it comes to a trial. The judicial system is notoriously bad at protecting victims of sexual harassment and sexual assault. A fair trial is very rarely had and perpetrators are routinely acquitted even if judges make believe that harassment/assault did take place according to their statements.
That‘s why it‘s important to believe victims pressing charges and support them. That‘s not judging, that‘s solidarity. People in power like famous musicials have enough of a lobby already. Even here in this thread people‘s first reaction is doubt, even though multiple independent cases were brought forth that all tell more or less the same story.

Well, after Johnny Depp, Marilyn Manson and the guy from Rick & Morty, does it really surprise you that everybody's first reaction is doubt? It's better to doubt than to jump to conclusions and getting innocent people fired.

The ill effect of me2 and cancel culture in the media. Shoot first, ask questions later. Guilty until proven innocent. I thought people were getting smarter with every generation but it turns out it is not the case: far too many fall victim to siding with the alleged victim by default, and never assume they (usually a she) could have fabricated her story.

Females instinctively know in this PC climate if they come out as a victim of X, they will get brownie points due to their sex. Some may choose to manipulate in order to seek financial security. Anyone who disagrees or asks questions is lambasted in the PC cancel culture court for "victim blaming". However this sounds, victims have an obligation not to defame without hard evidence.

Still the process of procuring fans backstage is interesting. I wonder why the groupies of the 80s never came out with such stories. I guess only cause they were taught to be responsible for their actions and do not go places with men you do not know alone (never occured to go with a friend for personal safety reasons?) or if they did, they got what they deserved and gritted their teeth. In this PC world I do not subscribe to, if you blackout at a backstage party, it has to be due to a spiked drink, never due to drinking too much, which is very convenient, the public will believe the victim, never mind her sense of personal responsibility. If anything happens, why is going public a natural response? If it comes to trial, the first questions the plaintiff's attorney would ask is: "did you drink/how much/were you forced" which will establish most if not all of it was consensual.

Playing the self-proclaimed victim pays nowadays, if you are a female. A male's reputation can easily be ruined without any evidence, in an era of PC and the public taking sides with the alleged victim based on accounts and poor evidence alone.
To give an alleged perpetrator the benefit of the doubt, assume the victim has a motive with a supposedly wealthy man. Any inconstencies or lack of evidence plays out in the favour of the accused. That always helps get a fairer view on things.

If Johnny Deep's wife trial taught the public anything: you needn't be of crystal clear morals to be a victim of a false or financially-driven accusation.

Shame, Till will have to wind down his enterprise indefinitely, if we are to believe girl's account. That's prolly the silver lining that may satisfy the "victim defenders" (myself being a "victim questioner" i.e. if you were a victim of X, prove it with hard evidence).

TL;DR do not let yourselves be manipulated by anyone framing themselves as a victim of X on social media without solid evidence.

Yet another lovely MS thread

Written by Roman Doez on 05.06.2023 at 18:38

Yet another lovely MS thread

I'm just trying to maintain a neutral position, lol. I'm just saying that neither outcome - innocent or guilty - would surprise me.

Written by Brutal Water on 05.06.2023 at 18:50

neither outcome - innocent or guilty - would surprise me.

This reminds me the title of this post is non-factual: no sex took place, infeasible without touching. Nobody is accused of anything, conjectures against no one in particular thrown about, people with functional illiteracy who can't get the gist of a tweet blew it out of proportion to a rape charge. So technically no outcome indeed. Inviting a girl for sex and getting angry (how exactly scant details on that) at her refusal is no crime, in fact it's life but quite legal. Am I the only one here not finding any room for sexual misconduct here but a possible attempt to get her own back at Till (what for exactly the mind boggles)? The gawd knows who and when administered bruises?
The public opinion is too easily swayed by graphic images but then fail to follow up and ask the difficult questions to any victim to make sense of their predicament: how/when/where/how long these lasted/where were those treated afterwards etc. At the end of the day would the public admit they were mislead or fell victim to their initial judgement that was straight from the PC textbook: side with the victim of bruises of unknown origin, without taking her claims on their factual merit? I propose to ask questions, always, examine on merit, do not give in to your initial feeling for a self-proclaimed victim.

Written by Brutal Water on 05.06.2023 at 18:50

I'm just trying to maintain a neutral position, lol. I'm just saying that neither outcome - innocent or guilty - would surprise me.

I did not specifically refer to you or anyone else when I wrote my comment

So, mdx, you created an account here for the sole purpose of posting a few edgy hot-takes documenting your utter lack of empathy and reading skills? Was this really worth your time more than googling why it is so hard to avoid sexual harassment in this world and why courts of law have such difficulty doing right by its victims?

I‘ll pick two examples from your walls of text that I‘d like to make clearer. But these answers come with a warning that I will ban you if you have nothing further to contribute to this conversation than a pubescent male perspective on what it means to exist in this world as a woman. I do this to give you the benefit of the doubt that these are not rhetorical questions but actual ones.

Written by [user id=335539] on 05.06.2023 at 17:19

I took a second to wonder why anyone would bring up Harry Potter in this context. It's deplorable you can't call a spade a spade these days, without offending some minority group that wants everyone to jump on the bandwagon of political correctness. Why is this being discussed anyway is madness.

My point above this quote was about Death of the Author. ThomasBryant brought up the issue saying he still loves their music and implying he would find it hard to enjoy it the same, should these allegations become proven.
Death of the Author is practiced by a whole generation of Harry Potter fans in the light of the stories‘ author aligning themselves with violent hate speech and even using their wealth to support hate groups specifically targeting a certain minority. It is a tough situation to be in as a fan and it is the exact situation ThomasBryant was referring to.
So why not bring it up?

Written by [user id=335539] on 05.06.2023 at 17:19

I also wonder why anyone would accept very serious accusations that aren't backed by anything else than photographic evidence […]

I‘m leaving out the victim blaming that you would later call into question yourself and will focus on this point only.

How exactly would you imagine this should go down? In this very thread we have talked about how sexual harassment puts victims in situations they do not expect, very quickly, and leaves them with a bunch of feelings they have to sort through first, possibly traumatizing them for life.
In such a situation, wehere somebody forces themselves upon you in whatever kind of way, you are telling me you would be rational, alert, and vivid enough to pull out your phone saying „hold on, I need to document this photographically to support the charges, I will later press against you“?

The whole issue with sexual harassment - as has been discussed, here, elsewhere on this site, and out there on the Internet - is that people are suddenly caught in a power dynamic that puts insane pressure on them, and forced into situations they do not want, cannot control, do not understand, and cannot escape.

Any demand for evidence despite testimony displays an almost willingly ignorant lack of understanding of the matter. As is relying on courts for finding out the truth in these matters. A court will always rule in favor of the defendant if in doubt. So any crime that is hard to prove will leave victims behind without any chance of seeing justice.

In my experience, people use these facts as a cop-out where once someone has been acquitted they no longer have to worry about it or, even worse, now start harassing the victims who were brave enough to come forward.

These victims need support more than anything out there. Simply calling them idiots while pointing to the reality out there, acknowledging how terrible it is but asking them to just deal with it is the most privileged perspective anyone can assume here.
Nothing is asked of you than to not condemn people who are brave enough to speak out when they have been wronged by powers outside their control, listen to them, and - if you find yourself unable to show compassion - just not speak at all.

I feel like you‘ll find yourself able to do that.

I found key flaws in your emotional but illogical call. Compassion or empathy does not rule out the need for hard facts. Meritocracy, something many PC believers accusing others of "victim blaming" have trouble with. Second if you acccuse in vain, you face the consequences. I find it deplorable an alleged victim would choose to have her case presented with haphazard evidence that is impossible now to assess on its face value in the court of public opinion rather than in a proper law court. Witchhunts or lynches have historically started with far less.
Third, where exactly did the alleged misconduct occur, if Till, by her admission, got only angry but never touched her? Have PC cancellers suddenly extended the definition of sexual misconduct to a prompt to have sex in a setting where many would be keen to have it, seeing as she came in of her own free will? Don't be naive, a girl going backstage has to consider that option. Or perhaps she's ignored the tens of metal or rock hits that explore the possibility...

An account and a few poorly shot pics are not enough to file for sexual misconduct. She knows it and that is why she didn't go to a court but chose to have her case heard in the court of public opinion where many like yourself clearly believe in "guilty until proven innocent".

Everyone that raises questionable accusations against a person publically needs to have in the back of their head they may be called bluff and required by a legal order to stop raising accusations without evidence. And with evidence as scant as here, that is more than expected.

You use compassion/empathy as mental blackmail to gag anyone who asks for details or raises reasonable doubt, this is against the spirit of most legal systems. Very typical of PC proponents to accuse without evidence but with an emotional argument someone is not empathetic enough. Empathy does not rule out the requirement for a substantial body of unquestionable evidence to be presented for a fair verdict to be given.

What world what we be living in if no evidence was needed whenever an accusation is made? Technically you could put anyone behind bars that way. That is why courts seek and value solid, unquestionable evidence higher than individual testimonies of an event.

I won't even comment your showing support for the cancelling of JK Rowling, solely on the fact she is not afraid to use the word woman properly at its designated meaning and not yield to blackmail or be cancelled if she does not jump through the hoops of PC. Shame on you sir!

There cannot be a victim if there hasn't been any crime or sexual misconduct to speak of, plain and simple.

Sorry no court case, unless there is crime to speak of and hard evidence comes to light.

But even so, case Decapitated again. Or case Johnny Deep vs. Amber Heard. Look those up. Ulterior or financially driven motives are always a possibility.

"Pubescent male perspective" ?? Incredible how'd you go out of your way to offend a person for a view you do not necessarily agree with. What if mine is a woman's viewpoint, eh? On what grounds dare you assume if anyone you speak to is male or female?

"If ... just not speak at all", "I will ban you if..." those are fine examples of blackmail. You must have a high opinion of yourself, who do you think you are to think anyone cares whom you ban for daring to disagree? Go right ahead!

Well, as far I can see, nobody here is trying to have Till go to prison. The whole perspective revolves around approach to the alleged victim. Yes, we all believe in thorough investigation, from which, it seems at the moment, there will be no charges pressed, as the case doesn't seem very convincing at the moment (we can all agree on that, I believe).

I also personally believe Kiepenheuer & Witsch breaking contract with Till was very hasty and really insincere. They probably have editors, right? There's no way they noticed the "celebration of sexual violence against women" just now when it suddenly became a problem. Also in Rammstein lyrics throughout the years? No shot...

Written by [user id=335539] on 05.06.2023 at 17:19

You go in at your own free will. What happens while inside is consensual ...

By the act of going backstage, you don't automatically open yourself up for sex with the band lol. There is at least one more step there.

You seem to know that compassion or empathy does not rule out the need for hard facts but you should know that works the other way around too. Even the band themselves said there should be no prejudice called against those making the allegation. Why would you do it then? Why make an account just for a thread on a website that will have zero weight for the outcome? And.. isn't that the emotional but illogical call in the end?

He has money, he might pay to drop the charges, often happens in crimes. Same time it should be proven, good lawyer make twist some teqnialities

Written by Bad English on 06.06.2023 at 10:38

He has money, he might pay to drop the charges, often happens in crimes. Same time it should be proven, good lawyer make twist some teqnialities

If he tried to settle out of court, it would make him look guilty in the broad public's eye. If he is truly innocent, he should push for a trial ASAP to clear his name.

Written by Brutal Water on 06.06.2023 at 12:25

Written by Bad English on 06.06.2023 at 10:38

He has money, he might pay to drop the charges, often happens in crimes. Same time it should be proven, good lawyer make twist some teqnialities

If he tried to settle out of court, it would make him look guilty in the broad public's eye. If he is truly innocent, he should push for a trial ASAP to clear his name.

Innocent? But he cannot guilty, there isn't a crime to begin with.
Here are the facts: an inebriated female at a post concert party has posted publically about it in a way that could be construed as likely defamatory to the organizers but is unable make her case without proof. Why did she claim police and hospital were useless? Cause they didn't find a shred of evidence for a crime she thought had occurred at the party? Likely telling her she had got drunk and her symptoms were closely related?

She's done excellent job at defacing a guy who invited her over but whom she claims "did not touch her". I reckon she thought it would be a way to get her own back at Till by going public with slander. Who is the victim here? So why is it that you choose to discuss it as though there was a question of HIS guilt / innocence? No crime to begin with.

Not all defamed public figures pursue a trial. It won't go to a trial if it stays as is, no further slander without proof. She would lose the case anyway, not for the lack of funds but hard facts. She's likely got enough empathy from those around her but lacks good advisors explaining to her that proof is needed. Public isn't needed as a source of empathy but if so she chose to slander a party host, then the public has every right to claim she's right, illogically as it may be, due to the lack of irrefutable evidence and a crime of which she was a victim, or nitpick at her story. Authorities do the latter, likely with prompts to indicate empathy but above all to elicit a believable story and get solid facts. As for her chances, slim, police will do take her testimony and then assess it on the strength of the body of evidence, of which there is none, at least not which meets the standard of irrefutable or possibly not self-inflicted, then dismiss the case. A drunk female implying she got bruises at a party that is dismissed from a hospital without treatment and police refusing to investigate is hardly an unquestionable authority. Especially if it is like with Decapitated or Johnny Depp, money motivated. Females instinctively seek security, that is one way they try to secure it (financially) and historically false allegations pay the alleged victim to keep quiet, all unbeknownsts to the cheering public that takes sides.

Why isn't the initial police and hospital dismissal without treatment taken at its face value? I reckon professionals at a police departament or ER can recognise an impostor from a true victim and can act when facts speak for the person. If it doesn't stick with them, a self-proclaimed victim ought to seek support locally and document it professionally, take a sworn statement etc but certainly not leave the country and post her slander from abroad. That is making her position worse. As a matter of fact, the bruises are gone but the words have already made their impact and a reputation took a dent. So there is a victim, rather unfortunately not the one that chaotically tried to frame herself as one.

To the post author: can you change that disparaging allegation that made it into the title? I'd like to point out it is implying something the alleged victim has ruled out herself. Why frame it falsely?

A lot of good points on here, I just can't wait for this to be over. I hope it ends on a good note as in nothing really happened. I'm just scared that they keep doing this Row 0 stuff. Although a new interview on Colonel Kurtz channel with a cop has said he's been to a good bit of their shows he said it seems ok nothing sketchy really. They have men and women in the after parties not just young women, some even mature. It seems relieving so far. Fingers crossed, plus like I said in the shoutbox. I hope Kypck, Godflesh and Arkona will keep me in good spirits in this crazy time as a Rammstein fan.

My guess is it will all die down quietly without new evidence. Some, especially legal communication about a settlement the public isn't ever privy to. More so, if she has grounds to settle. What message would it send the public if anyone that posts pics with bruises after a party can get their end financially?
From a defamatory perspective, she may likely have to post a statement for it not to go to trial. The police likely have advised her her public statements may constitute slander or libel (if twitter is press in Lithuania) and require her to desist to avoid derailing an investigation, or face a charge herself.

Guess not, her twitter still says: "the girl that got spiked AT Rammstein" and "I will be the voice for the many MANY victims" (stickied post). I find both odd, the former not proven beyond reasonable doubt and the latter a possible case of attention seeking (why not prove own case first and only then volunteer to help others?) as well as a poorly crafted attempt to monetise it (does it not sound like an invitiation to the band to contact her as the self-proclaimed head of a campaign that may denigrate them?).

Seeing a similarity to the case of Decapitated in the US, I'm saddened the world has come to making voluntary participants of post concert parties victims by default. A sad take on "sex, drugs & rock'n'roll"... can't do anything fun these days without a written statement you do so at your own risk. Need warning labels everywhere or risk a suit or public allegations. Entitled kids using dodgy but voluntary private parties as "get rich quick or I'll go public" opportunities? Where is some sense of personal responsibility? Disgusting.

https://twitter.com/Shelbys69666/status/1663327298987106307

Read the first response to the tweet, and her response to that. She admits she was not sexually assaulted, then shares several articles that claim she was. Can't really blame them for filing a C&D over this.

Written by Boxcar Willy on 06.06.2023 at 15:26

https://twitter.com/Shelbys69666/status/1663327298987106307

Read the first response to the tweet, and her response to that. She admits she was not sexually assaulted, then shares several articles that claim she was. Can't really blame them for filing a C&D over this.

That is all the more reason not to shout empathy where it is an open campaign to have the public on your side. The articles of which there could.have been only one source. And if the media got their story wrong, she doesn't put them right, no she goes on to cite them, then upon receipt of C&D changes her story, denies touching and rape. Isn't that mode of behaviour tantamount to a lie?

To what end is a case raised publically, to compel authorities to take her side? Then why not do so in a court of law if evidence exists?

Citing media fully aware they got her story wrong, blown out to a rape or molestation charge, is a clear indication her motives are disingenious.

This is a pretty good article / investigation on the subject.

I think we actually all agree that blaming a victim for a crime that happened to him or her is wrong.

But first it should be established that there actually was a crime committed. No crime, no victim.

Written by Andreas on 06.06.2023 at 16:37
No crime, no victim.

It was legal in Germany to rape your wife until 1997. Would you say that women raped while that was not considered a crime weren‘t victims?

At the same time it was illegal to be homosexual in Germany until 1994 based on a law that predated the nazi regime but was severely aggravated by the nazis. Are people who were „legally“ punished before 1994 simply for existing not victims?

I‘ve said this before, courts of law often cannot protect victims of sexual harassment. That doesn‘t mean they‘re not victims.

Also, this case is not one of a single woman making claims, as mdx wants to frame it. It is multiple women telling shockingly similar stories that came forth independently. Backed up by people from within the scene saying these practices have been an open secret for basically decades.

Society can condemn people even if they‘re found innocent by courts of law. Large scale tax evasion is one of these cases where pepetrators are rarely caught in time to be prosecuted, but still universally condemned when their cases are discovered. Yet, victims of sexual violence almost always find themselves in a position where they are attacked, questioned, and stalked instead of helped. We don‘t have to be that way.

For the record:

We have banned mdx for a combination of creating an account solely to antagonize other users, and being openly transphobic and misogynistic.

This is not a community for such ideologies. We aim to run a metal website that is open and inclusive, and holds people accountable, and we will ban people who try to destroy this for anyone.