Buy for
$9.16
(14 items)

Release date: 13 September 2004
Style: Extreme power metal, Progressive folk metal

Rating:

8.9 | 1403 votes

Owners:

1595 have it
130 want it
2 trade it


Disc I
01. Beyond The Dark Sun
02. Winter Madness
03. Sleeping Stars
04. Battle Against Time
05. Death And The Healing
06. Starchild
07. Beautiful Death
08. Sadness And Hate
09. Winter Madness [demo] [Japanese bonus]
10. Beyond The Dark Sun [demo] [Japanese bonus]
11. Death And The Healing [demo] [Japanese bonus]

Disc II [Tour Edition DVD] [Live At Summer Breeze 2005]
01. Beyond The Dark Sun
02. Battle Against Time
03. Sleeping Stars
04. Beautiful Death
05. Death And The Healing
06. Winter Madness

The best debut album of 2004
Top 20 albums of 2004: 2
Top 200 albums of all time: 45

Reviews (5)
Lyrics (8)


Additional info
Kai "the grinder" Hahto
Drums

Jari Mäenpää
Vocals, Guitars, Bass, Synths and Stress

Drums recorded at Tico Tico Studios in January 2004 by Ahti Kortelainen

Everything else recorded at Sundi Coop Studios in April by Tuomo Valtonen.

Mixed at Sonic Pump Studios in May by Nino Laurenne

Mastered at Finnvox Studios in May by Mika Jussila

Produced by Jari Mäenpää
All music and lyrics written by Jari Mäenpää

Re-relased as a Special Tour Edition double-disc digipak by Nuclear Blast in 2006 (NB1221-0). Includes the studio album and the "Live At Summerbreeze 2005" DVD:

1. "Beyond The Dark Sun" (Handy Cam Sound)
2. "Battle Against Time" (Handy Cam Sound)
3. "Sleeping Stars" (Soundboard Sound)
4. "Beautiful Death" (Soundboard Sound)
5. "Death And The Healing" (Soundboard Sound)
6. "Winter Madness" (Soundboard Sound)

The 'Winter Madness' demo was used as a bonus on the Japanese version of the album:
09. Winter Madness (Demo)(06:00)
10. Beyond the Dark Sun (Demo)(02:43)
11. Death and the Healing (Demo)(06:46)

Tracks 1, 2 and 5 are re-recordings of the tracks with the same names from the afore mentioned 'Winter Madness' demo.

Jari Mäenpää had been working on the songs for this album for a long time. The songs were written in/between:
1. Beyond the Dark Sun (1998)
2. Winter Madness (2002)
3. Sleeping Stars (1995-2003)
4. Battle Against Time (2002-2003)
5. Death and the Healing (1996)
6. Starchild (2000-2003)
7. Beautiful Death (2003)
8. Sadness and Hate (1996)

Guest review by
Hyvaarin

Rating:
10
Those readers who are familiar with the history of folk/power-metallers Ensiferum will doubtless be familiar with the history of Wintersun (i.e. that after walking out on Ensiferum, main man Jari Maënpäa formed the latter as a solo project). Speculation was rife in melodic metal circles - expectations for 'Wintersun' were largely high, though some suspected that Wintersun would be little more than Ensiferum Pt.II. In spite of the various similarities between this release and those of Maënpäa's former band (and make no mistake- they do exist), 'Wintersun' is very much an exceptional album, and will be reviewed as such.

Read more ››
published 16.06.2006 | Comments (79)

Guest review by
Black_Handed

Rating:
9.4
Ok, just to make it clear right at the beginning, I absolutely love/adore/worship (choose preferred term) this album. And I'm not alone, just check the number of fans in "Featured bands" section. So reviewing this album comes with great responsibility.
Jari Mäenpää started as a part of Ensiferum. Great black folk metal band if you'd ask me. So why did he leave? He came up with some interesting not-so-Ensiferum-like ideas. So he started his own project with drummer Kai Hahto of Rotten Sound grinders. But where are the others? Where are synth, bass, second guitar players we can hear in there? Well by the time Wintersun was recorded Jari Mäenpää did everything except drums. Yes, everything except drums. Later on Jukka Koskinken of Norther and Teemu Mäntysaari joined to finish the lineup.

Read more ››
published 07.07.2006 | Comments (25)

Guest review by
Talvi

Rating:
9.2
Wintersun is the band Jari Mäenpää started after leaving Ensiferum. Some people dispise this band because they compare it to Ensiferum and say it's worse. Big mistake. This probably isn't as bombastic and catchy as Ensiferum, of course, but, what is Wintersun?

I've seen them labelled as Melodic Death Metal, as well as Extreme Power Metal. The first thing that comes to my mind though, is Children Of Bodom. But Children Of Bodom they are not. They play somewhat epic, almost progressive Melodic Death/Black Metal with Folk influences. You may see it as less Folk-like, as only some riffs have Folk qualities, but more aggressive and complex Ensiferum. It's far more than just that however.

Read more ››
published 29.12.2006 | Comments (5)

Guest review by
RhaegarTargaryen

Rating:
10
When in 2004 Jari Mäenpää left Ensiferum, few people could imagine what impact that would leave on the metal community. Ensiferum got on pretty we'll, but what Jari did with his new band Wintersun was something quite unexpected. There are only few albums that deserve this kind of praise and hype, but I think this one is one of them.

Read more ››
published 21.12.2007 | Comments (28)

Guest review by
Andro Maximus

Rating:
7.5
A most beautiful melancholic album cover, fast sweeping guitar solos, some fantastic melodies, and an epic, if slightly overproduced soundscape - Wintersun's debut album is clearly the result of a lot of passion and hard work and is obviously intended to be a monumental album. It is a shame then, that with so much going for it, Wintersun falls short of being the masterpiece that it is intended to be.

Read more ››
published 27.07.2014 | Comments (11)

Found in 90 lists
Top lists

~Starchild~ The Encyclopaedia of Beautiful Metal Ballads  | #359
Erik M. A List Of Great Debut Albums  | #265
LeKiwi Most Talented Vocalists In Metal  | #127
~Starchild~ Hall Of Fame: Top 73 Of All Time  | #72
Lit. The Epics (Because I Don't Think Pyramid God Is Coming Back)  | #21
Fredd A Half-Assed List of Fredd's Favouritest Bunch of Albuns  | #296
MechanisT Supermassive List: Top 20 Picks of Each Year of the Last Decade (2000-2009)  | #136
Fredd The Folk, The Pagan And The Viking  | #35
More lists with this album (90) | Create a list! ››



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Daydream Nation - 02.02.2011 at 22:21  
 
Written by Valentin B on 02.02.2011 at 00:42

I don't really see how people need 4 reviews saying basically the same thing regarding an album.




I concur...maybe someone should actually be reviewing the mindblowing albums of 2010. Mainly, Shining [NOR]'s Blackjazz.
Doc Godin - 02.02.2011 at 23:23  
Rating: 7
Written by Cryzpin on 29.12.2010 at 17:35

Written by vezzy on 29.12.2010 at 16:53

(because it is) [overrated]


Well, you said that twice already, any argument for it? Or it's just "i don't like it so all who does knows shit" thing?

It's hard not to get this attitude when people worship it as some kind of work of genius when it's a pretty basic power metal album with some harsh vocals and blast beats thrown in.

Also, your saying it's not overrated is no more valid than us who say it is overrated.
Cryzpin - 03.02.2011 at 10:36  
Rating: 9
Quote:
Quote:

It's hard not to get this attitude when people worship it as some kind of work of genius when it's a pretty basic power metal album with some harsh vocals and blast beats thrown in.

Also, your saying it's not overrated is no more valid than us who say it is overrated.

I agree the album is pretty simple and doesn't bring much new, but complexity and progressiveness are not neccesary for emotional resonance to arise, which is imo the greatest objective of music. And this one somehow resonates with so many people, as always not with everyone, but still it's remarkable.

Ad (not)under/overrating, i didn't state either. I just claimed such stances to be quite egocentric and unconstructive, no offense.
RavenKing - 03.02.2011 at 14:27  
 
Written by Doc Godin on 02.02.2011 at 23:23

it's a pretty basic power metal album with some harsh vocals and blast beats thrown in.


I would describe it exactly in these terms.
rasto - 09.02.2011 at 11:46  
Rating: 10 Best album all time!!!!!!!!!:metal:
PowerThrash - 17.02.2011 at 06:10  
Rating: 10 My personal favorite band/album! Highly recommend it!:banger2:
Bloody Rain - 19.02.2011 at 01:20  
  This album gets way more hype than it deserves IMO. I've listened to it a bunch of times and I still don't get why everyone seems to be insane about it. It's pretty good, but it's far from being anything spectacular.
PowerThrash - 23.02.2011 at 07:44  
Rating: 10 It was definitely a grower for me, but the more I listened the more I started to love it. The speed of "Beyond the Dark Sun", "Winter Madness", "Starchild", and "Battle Against Time". And the pure epic power of "Beautiful Death" and "Sadness and Hate". "Death and the Healing" has one of the most beautiful solos I've ever heard, and I love the "Winter Madness" solo. The only track I wasn't crazy about was "Sleeping Stars", but it's still a decent one and doesn't bring the album down as a whole.
@gent_-_orange - 12.04.2011 at 02:46  
Rating: 7
Written by Bloody Rain on 19.02.2011 at 01:20

This album gets way more hype than it deserves IMO. I've listened to it a bunch of times and I still don't get why everyone seems to be insane about it. It's pretty good, but it's far from being anything spectacular.


This
MetalSpider - 12.04.2011 at 03:39  
 
Written by Bloody Rain on 19.02.2011 at 01:20

This album gets way more hype than it deserves IMO. I've listened to it a bunch of times and I still don't get why everyone seems to be insane about it. It's pretty good, but it's far from being anything spectacular.


Well for me...when this album first came out, I was still in my early stages of discovering metal outside of In Flames, COB and Soilwork (and stuff like Metallica, Megadeth and Iron Maiden). So this was one of the first albums of its kind that I listened to, and personally it blew me away.

If I had heard this album for the first time, now...then perhaps my opinion would have been slightly different. I still would have enjoyed it no doubt though.
BaneConall - 02.05.2011 at 18:57  
Rating: 10 I didnt really like this album at first but now I listen to it at least once a week. I hate how lame they are being about the next album though ...
Fallen - 16.05.2011 at 05:46  
 
Quote:
Well for me...when this album first came out, I was still in my early stages of discovering metal outside of In Flames, COB and Soilwork (and stuff like Metallica, Megadeth and Iron Maiden). So this was one of the first albums of its kind that I listened to, and personally it blew me away.

If I had heard this album for the first time, now...then perhaps my opinion would have been slightly different. I still would have enjoyed it no doubt though.


How the times have changed eh? When I was first getting into metal I considered this album and stuff like COB and Norther to be Melodic Death Metal. I still do in all reality, none of this extreme power metal crap. That whole fiasco probably explains my personal bias against Newer Melodic Death Metal bands simply because it all sounds like the bands I listened to when I first started getting into metal. Personally I place this album at like an 8.2-8.4 and not the 9 it currently holds. Don't get me wrong its a good album but its not "Fantastic" and doesn't exactly stand out. Like you listening to it now compared to when I was first getting into metal the opinion of it is slightly lower.
Damshak - 09.06.2011 at 00:48  
Rating: 10 ---Top 10 ''Wintersun''---
1-.Winter Madness
2-.Beyond The Dark Sun
3-.Battle Against Time
4-.Starchild
5-.Death And The Healing
6-.Beautiful Death
7-.Sleeping Stars
8-.Time
9-.Sons Of Winter and Stars
10-.The Way Of The Fire
snake? snaaaake! - 22.06.2011 at 21:27  
Rating: 5 This album has no replay value. I sold it years ago, but for some reason after seeing that theres 4 reviews here creaming over the album, I might buy it again/download to see what I was missing...
kokina2 - 28.08.2011 at 16:56  
  This is freackin awesome album!
Bloodshotmage - 02.09.2011 at 07:24  
Rating: 10 Discovered this album purely by accident. Pretty fucking insane.
SWAMPL0RD - 05.10.2011 at 06:51  
Rating: 10 Just listened to this album for the first time in awhile, while drunk as fuck i may add. Super fucking epic ass the first time i head it. Not a Fanboy, just a fan
Metal_Buff - 18.12.2011 at 03:31  
Rating: 8 Some tracks are pretty awesome, but I find myself snoozing a bit as it goes on, maybe it's the each song longer than the last structure... With the exception of the epic and black metallish 'Beautiful Death', whose opening riff is a lot like Unanimated's 'Depths of a Black Sea', which is sweet.
Stotty - 30.12.2011 at 19:38  
Rating: 10 Listening to this right now.......fuckin amazing album,really is
Boxcar Willy - 26.01.2012 at 05:46  
Rating: 7 After I dug myself out of the fondue pot, I found this album to be very mediocre.
Milena - 26.01.2012 at 11:31  
Rating: 8
Written by Boxcar Willy on 26.01.2012 at 05:46

After I dug myself out of the fondue pot

Puh-lease. One person goes overexagerating in comparing this album to something sugar-coated (if melodies are sugar coated, which coats 90% of music in sugar) and all the cool kids suddenly follow him like blindmen. I'm not saying it's not possible not to like this, but saying it's sugar-coated? Gimme a break. That means every non-extreme metal band is sugar-coated.
Slayer666 - 26.01.2012 at 16:03  
Rating: 6
Written by Milena on 26.01.2012 at 11:31

Puh-lease. One person goes overexagerating in comparing this album to something sugar-coated (if melodies are sugar coated, let's all go listen to grindcore!) and all the cool kids suddenly follow him like blindmen. I'm not saying it's not possible not to like this, but saying it's sugar-coated? Gimme a break. That means every non-extreme metal band is sugar-coated.


I'd rather say this is cheese-coated (thus, salty) rather than sugary.

And massively overrated to boot.
Milena - 26.01.2012 at 16:22  
Rating: 8
Written by Slayer666 on 26.01.2012 at 16:03

I'd rather say this is cheese-coated (thus, salty) rather than sugary.

And massively overrated to boot.

I believe the both camps are exaggerating. Really. If I listened to something hyped but not relevant to my interests, I'd pretty much say it's overrated too. Not that it isn't. But the amounts of both the people who hung onto this because someone told them it's the best shit in the world and now they believe it and the ones who saw the hype, put on their "huge critic" top hat and dissected this music without a trace of emotion to proclaim that it's pure bullshit are pretty much destroying every opportunity that somebody approaches this (or Time) with a clean slate in the future. Guess we have the first camp to blame for that. But it still makes me sick.

Ya, it's rated high. That means it's overrated. But I don't see what good does it bring to be the 57575757th person to criticize it. Except for the self-satisfaction of being a person who slanders something that a lot of other people like, which makes 57575757 special snowflakes.

I'm not targeting you personally with my speech, but I'm really tired of everyone in metal taking polar opposite sides over and over again and thinking they're so special for being critical/fan. Are we gonna make Lulu jokes until 2020? Are we gonna slander/worship Wintersun til the rest of eternity? When are we ever gonna stop being so goddamn boring? When are we gonna stop glorifying our opinions?
R'Vannith - 26.01.2012 at 17:15  
Rating: 8
Written by Milena on 26.01.2012 at 16:22

Written by Slayer666 on 26.01.2012 at 16:03

I'd rather say this is cheese-coated (thus, salty) rather than sugary.

And massively overrated to boot.

I believe the both camps are exaggerating. Really. If I listened to something hyped but not relevant to my interests, I'd pretty much say it's overrated too. Not that it isn't. But the amounts of both the people who hung onto this because someone told them it's the best shit in the world and now they believe it and the ones who saw the hype, put on their "huge critic" top hat and dissected this music without a trace of emotion to proclaim that it's pure bullshit are pretty much destroying every opportunity that somebody approaches this (or Time) with a clean slate in the future. Guess we have the first camp to blame for that. But it still makes me sick.

Ya, it's rated high. That means it's overrated. But I don't see what good does it bring to be the 57575757th person to criticize it. Except for the self-satisfaction of being a person who slanders something that a lot of other people like, which makes 57575757 special snowflakes.

I'm not targeting you personally with my speech, but I'm really tired of everyone in metal taking polar opposite sides over and over again and thinking they're so special for being critical/fan. Are we gonna make Lulu jokes until 2020? Are we gonna slander/worship Wintersun til the rest of eternity? When are we ever gonna stop being so goddamn boring? When are we gonna stop glorifying our opinions?


That's a risky assumption to make, that those who don't like the album have to belong to the more negative of these two poles. Perhaps someone genuinely dislikes the album, their opinion might coincide with the 'Wintersun is overrated' camp but it isn't a fair generalisation to make that they have all donned those "huge critic" top hats.

But I completely agree with you about the two opinions of 'masterpiece' and 'shite' being repeatedly expressed, unneccessary if you ask me. But with the popularity of this album isn't it only expected that such ridiculously opposing opinions arise? I do think the whole polarization thing occurs in a ridiculous way with this album (at least on this website), so I can understand your frustration. I discovered this album myself from here, so I can say that the two poles were immediately obvious, despite the high rating.
Milena - 26.01.2012 at 17:48  
Rating: 8
Written by R'Vannith on 26.01.2012 at 17:15

That's a risky assumption to make, that those who don't like the album have to belong to the more negative of these two poles. Perhaps someone genuinely dislikes the album, their opinion might coincide with the 'Wintersun is overrated' camp but it isn't a fair generalisation to make that they have all donned those "huge critic" top hats.

But I completely agree with you about the two opinions of 'masterpiece' and 'shite' being repeatedly expressed, unneccessary if you ask me. But with the popularity of this album isn't it only expected that such ridiculously opposing opinions arise? I do think the whole polarization thing occurs in a ridiculous way with this album (at least on this website), so I can understand your frustration. I discovered this album myself from here, so I can say that the two poles were immediately obvious, despite the high rating.

Well, it is also assumed that everyone that gave a ten to this album is a blind fanboy who holds Jari as his God, and I can assure you not everyone is. But I didn't suggest that, it probably just came off like that. Maybe I'm just bitter about it because I only utter the word "overrated" when I judge something I usually like and something of value I'm familiar with. If the Metallica albums do nothing for me, I won't go around and claim they're overrated. I can say I dislike it, or I don't get it, but the idea that it is overrated just because the Joe Public likes it more than I do doesn't cut it for me. So the idea that black/doom/thrash metal fans who dislike this type of metal listen to this because of the hype, and, of course, dislike it, and then claim it's overrated is a bit crap to me. Music is only good if it matches your soul and if you invest yourself emotionally in it. You can't just cold-heartedly put an album on.

And of course there is the Captain Obvious argument. As a person who does like this album very much and who played it a lot since 2009, I do say it's overrated. How could it not be, when a lot of people claim it's close to perfect? Something so wildly acclaimed is overrated by definition; and everyone posts about expecting their arguments are pure discovery to the readers, while they actually are not. So is with everything here. Check out any Metallica news, full of those "Metallica sucks, Lulu sucks, Metallica sold out, Lars Ulrich sucks monkey balls"... no shit, Sherlocks? I admit taking part in it every once in a while, but I won't do it any more, because, honestly, if we can't get past spamming every thread with some redundant opinions, the metal community pretty much blows.

Edit: My posts come off as "whether you really like or dislike something, it's pointless to argue about it", and while it is to some extent true, I'd like to add something else: arguing about whether an album is awesomely good or awesomely bad, justified or not, based on judgements of the heart or judgements on the head, has a time and a place - in a single thread, in the year of its release. Not all over the forums 8 years after.
Mr. Doctor - 26.01.2012 at 18:02  
Rating: 5
Written by Milena on 26.01.2012 at 17:48
I only utter the word "overrated" when I judge something I usually like and something of value I'm familiar with. If the Metallica albums do nothing for me, I won't go around and claim they're overrated. I can say I dislike it, or I don't get it, but the idea that it is overrated just because the Joe Public likes it more than I do doesn't cut it for me. So the idea that black/doom/thrash metal fans who dislike this type of metal listen to this because of the hype, and, of course, dislike it, and then claim it's overrated is a bit crap to me.


I call bullshit here. There's no wrong in saying that something is overrated and at the same time disliking the record. People tend to forget that overrated and underrated are supposed to be objective words... No matter your personal opinion of the album's quality. If you don't say those words for albums you don't like... that's only your call.
Milena - 26.01.2012 at 18:17  
Rating: 8
Written by Mr. Doctor on 26.01.2012 at 18:02

I call bullshit here. There's no wrong in saying that something is overrated and at the same time disliking the record. People tend to forget that overrated and underrated are supposed to be objective words... No matter your personal opinion of the album's quality.

Yeah, but if you don't see any positive side about anything, then you can't approach it from both angles in attempt to judge its quality (although you can only judge quality of music up to some extent). Furthermore, people who dislike something often do not wish to immerse themselves in it further and try to figure it out. I'm not saying this album in particular is some deep shit you have to study for years, but the more you invest your brain and heart into something, the more you understand. Then you can try and think of all the positives and the negatives.

But maybe that's just me. I'm beginning to think that overrated and underrated are silly words which should not be used as an argument, just like "good" and "bad". Because it is only natural that not everyone will find the same values in works of art, and that the fact that some minority likes/dislikes something automatically makes it overrated/underrated to that minority. Even the stuff I'm doing makes no sense, because, how can you value a work of art? Even if I like this to a certain extent, I can't claim that my opinion about an album is valid and that the people who claim this is perfect are wrong. I mean, they are wrong, because nothing is ever perfect... unless to an individual. Whether something is good or bad is entirely up to you.
Mr. Doctor - 26.01.2012 at 18:21  
Rating: 5
Written by Milena on 26.01.2012 at 18:17

Written by Mr. Doctor on 26.01.2012 at 18:02

I call bullshit here. There's no wrong in saying that something is overrated and at the same time disliking the record. People tend to forget that overrated and underrated are supposed to be objective words... No matter your personal opinion of the album's quality.

Yeah, but if you don't see any positive side about anything, then you can't approach it from both angles in attempt to judge its quality (although you can only judge quality of music up to some extent). Furthermore, people who dislike something often do not wish to immerse themselves in it further and try to figure it out.



Meh, I think you can be very good at ignoring your own opinion in order to pass judgement if something has been way too hyped or not... It's not an herculean task to do, the problem is that most people think too high of themselves so if it's not of their liking it must be hyped.. Which is off course: Bullshit.

So I really don't agree with "then you can't approach it from both angles". This is what separates critics from just bashing because you CAN do that.
Milena - 26.01.2012 at 18:25  
Rating: 8
Written by Mr. Doctor on 26.01.2012 at 18:21

Meh, I think you can be very good at ignoring your own opinion in order to pass judgement if something has been way too hyped or not... It's not an herculean task to do, the problem is that most people think too high of themselves so if it's not of their liking it must be hyped.. Which is off course: Bullshit.

So I really don't agree with "then you can't approach it from both angles".

Well good job to you then, but I'm getting more and more skeptic about this, to the point that I refuse to say "this is good" or "this is bad" completely. Even in reviews, I will from now on just try to describe how something sounds like and whether it provoked an emotional response or not, which I sometimes fail in doing, but those are my best reviews because I'm 100% behind them.

A world where everyone would say "I like this because of *reasons*" is a world I'd very much like to live in, as absurd as it sounds. No good, no bad. Just like/dislike.
Mr. Doctor - 26.01.2012 at 18:28  
Rating: 5
Written by Milena on 26.01.2012 at 18:25
Well good job to you then, but I'm getting more and more skeptic about this, to the point that I refuse to say "this is good" or "this is bad" completely.


Hhahahahha , I'll play once again the existencial card here Nah, just kidding.... You have to udnerstand that when you say this is good/bad, you are by default giving your opinion, nothign wrong with that. Refusing to tell your own opinion strikes me as... I dunno, kind of weak.
R'Vannith - 26.01.2012 at 18:30  
Rating: 8
Written by Milena on 26.01.2012 at 17:48

Written by R'Vannith on 26.01.2012 at 17:15

That's a risky assumption to make, that those who don't like the album have to belong to the more negative of these two poles. Perhaps someone genuinely dislikes the album, their opinion might coincide with the 'Wintersun is overrated' camp but it isn't a fair generalisation to make that they have all donned those "huge critic" top hats.

But I completely agree with you about the two opinions of 'masterpiece' and 'shite' being repeatedly expressed, unneccessary if you ask me. But with the popularity of this album isn't it only expected that such ridiculously opposing opinions arise? I do think the whole polarization thing occurs in a ridiculous way with this album (at least on this website), so I can understand your frustration. I discovered this album myself from here, so I can say that the two poles were immediately obvious, despite the high rating.

Well, it is also assumed that everyone that gave a ten to this album is a blind fanboy who holds Jari as his God, and I can assure you not everyone is. But I didn't suggest that, it probably just came off like that. Maybe I'm just bitter about it because I only utter the word "overrated" when I judge something I usually like and something of value I'm familiar with. If the Metallica albums do nothing for me, I won't go around and claim they're overrated. I can say I dislike it, or I don't get it, but the idea that it is overrated just because the Joe Public likes it more than I do doesn't cut it for me. So the idea that black/doom/thrash metal fans who dislike this type of metal listen to this because of the hype, and, of course, dislike it, and then claim it's overrated is a bit crap to me. Music is only good if it matches your soul and if you invest yourself emotionally in it. You can't just cold-heartedly put an album on.

And of course there is the Captain Obvious argument. As a person who does like this album very much and who played it a lot since 2009, I do say it's overrated. How could it not be, when a lot of people claim it's close to perfect? Something so wildly acclaimed is overrated by definition; and everyone posts about expecting their arguments are pure discovery to the readers, while they actually are not. So is with everything here. Check out any Metallica news, full of those "Metallica sucks, Lulu sucks, Metallica sold out, Lars Ulrich sucks monkey balls"... no shit, Sherlocks? I admit taking part in it every once in a while, but I won't do it any more, because, honestly, if we can't get past spamming every thread with some redundant opinions, the metal community pretty much blows.

Edit: My posts come off as "whether you really like or dislike something, it's pointless to argue about it", and while it is to some extent true, I'd like to add something else: arguing about whether an album is awesomely good or awesomely bad, justified or not, based on judgements of the heart or judgements on the head, has a time and a place - in a single thread, in the year of its release. Not all over the forums 8 years after.


Hmm.. well to be honest I just ignore any talk of whether things are overrated or not and just listen to the music. People can bicker and bullshit all they like as far as I'm concerned, in the end it doesn't really have an impact on your listening experience does it? Even if it does it's their experience that they may be inhibiting, not your own. And while it might be painful to watch what appears to be a bunch of trend hopping idiots clutter up a thread we have to be careful not to make judgement on all posts, allocating them to the 'overrated' or 'godly masterpiece' sides of things. Some posts may have more to them than you might suspect. But simple comments like 'overrated album is overrated' and whatnot are obviously one thing, completely useless, especially, as you say, in a thread for an album as old as this one.
R'Vannith - 26.01.2012 at 18:36  
Rating: 8
Written by Milena on 26.01.2012 at 18:17

Whether something is good or bad is entirely up to you.


It really isn't any more complicated than this.
If someone wants to use terms like 'overrated' to describe something that's up them. Personally its something I also stay well clear of, it holds little weight in my eyes when discussing music.
Milena - 26.01.2012 at 18:36  
Rating: 8
Written by Mr. Doctor on 26.01.2012 at 18:28

You have to udnerstand that when you say this is good/bad, you are by default giving your opinion, nothign wrong with that. Refusing to tell your own opinion strikes me as... I dunno, kind of weak.

Yeah, but "good/bad" are value judgements, and "like/dislike" are opinions. I see them as such. When I post my opinion about what something does for me, I'll say I like/dislike it.

This is more of a linguistic dispute if anything, I prefer using one term and some others prefer using other terms. And I'm angry at the fact that people won't do it my way, but both ways have their advantages; the "good/bad" world may lead to flame wars, but in "like/dislike" world would be hardly any discussion at all. Which makes the forums redundant.
Milena - 26.01.2012 at 18:37  
Rating: 8
Written by R'Vannith on 26.01.2012 at 18:30

And while it might be painful to watch what appears to be a bunch of trend hopping idiots clutter up a thread we have to be careful not to make judgement on all posts, allocating them to the 'overrated' or 'godly masterpiece' sides of things. Some posts may have more to them than you might suspect.

Point taken sir. I'll try not to generalize in the future.
Mr. Doctor - 26.01.2012 at 18:39  
Rating: 5
Written by Milena on 26.01.2012 at 18:36

Written by Mr. Doctor on 26.01.2012 at 18:28

You have to udnerstand that when you say this is good/bad, you are by default giving your opinion, nothign wrong with that. Refusing to tell your own opinion strikes me as... I dunno, kind of weak.

Yeah, but "good/bad" are value judgements, and "like/dislike" are opinions. I see them as such. When I post my opinion about what something does for me, I'll say I like/dislike it.


I dunno... For me when I say "This is awful/brillant" it goes without saying that it's just me. To me that's basic conversation logic.
Milena - 26.01.2012 at 18:42  
Rating: 8
Written by Mr. Doctor on 26.01.2012 at 18:39

To me that's basic conversation logic.

Ah, but as many smart people said, common sense isn't so common and some people DO believe that they are judges of art when they talk about things like these, so that's when things get messy. I've updated my previous post.
Mr. Doctor - 26.01.2012 at 18:45  
Rating: 5
Written by Milena on 26.01.2012 at 18:42
some people DO believe that they are judges of art when they talk about things like these, so that's when things get messy.


Well, I did mention that in one of my previous posts. I usually stay the fuck away from those people... If I can't do that, I just call them on their shit every time.
Milena - 26.01.2012 at 18:56  
Rating: 8
Written by Mr. Doctor on 26.01.2012 at 18:45

Well, I did mention that in one of my previous posts. I usually stay the fuck away from those people... If I can't do that, I just call them on their shit every time.

I can be like that for large periods of time but time and again I explode. Probably not a forum person.

Anyway, to conclude - newbies to Wintersun, stay the fuck away from threads like these where everyone is either hyp-praising it or slandering it without any explanation and form your own opinions.
R'Vannith - 26.01.2012 at 19:02  
Rating: 8
Written by Mr. Doctor on 26.01.2012 at 18:28

Written by Milena on 26.01.2012 at 18:25
Well good job to you then, but I'm getting more and more skeptic about this, to the point that I refuse to say "this is good" or "this is bad" completely.


Hhahahahha , I'll play once again the existencial card here Nah, just kidding.... You have to udnerstand that when you say this is good/bad, you are by default giving your opinion, nothign wrong with that. Refusing to tell your own opinion strikes me as... I dunno, kind of weak.


Particular ways of expressing opinions also appear weak and redundant. Weaker in fact than not having voiced your opinion in the first place. When 500 people have already posted about this album in it's status as 'masterpiece' I'm hardly going to stop at post number 467 and say FUCK ME! Really! A Masterpiece you say?!

To be fair though it's a forum, your're bound to hear the same thing over and again for the popular stuff.
Slayer666 - 26.01.2012 at 20:35  
Rating: 6 *looks at the fire he helped start, slowly and quietly backs away*
Boxcar Willy - 26.01.2012 at 21:36  
Rating: 7
Written by Slayer666 on 26.01.2012 at 20:35

*looks at the fire he helped start, slowly and quietly backs away*

*Joins him*
Infernal Eternal - 06.03.2012 at 19:36  
Rating: 9 Awesome album. I still enjoy listening to it while waiting for the new one.
errorcode99 - 30.05.2012 at 18:37  
Rating: 9 Children of Bodom. on a LOT of steroids.
Boxcar Willy - 30.05.2012 at 18:42  
Rating: 7 The only track i really like off of this is Winter Madness, then it's just... meh...

This is really overated in my opinion.

6.5/10
mz - 08.06.2012 at 23:55  
Rating: 5 Good album, but 24th top metal record of all time??!!! don't really think so.It's well done extreme melodic metal, but has almost nothing new.
mz - 09.06.2012 at 00:03  
Rating: 5 No one mentioned terrible vox? both clean and harsh vocals are among the weakest I've ever heard , like early Ensiferum.
Cuca Beludo - 16.07.2012 at 20:16  
  Most overrated album ever. Two or three tracks are good.
Wes - 03.08.2012 at 04:37  
Rating: 10 That's what happens to forums in general. You get polar opinions. For most fans of the album, we don't bother checking here because we don't care. Wintersun's self titled has always been my favorite album, and a most personal one to me. I find it strange that people find it to be "hyped up". It's as if there is some world on here I've never been aware of. How could Wintersun be hyped up and over rated when nobody I've ever talked to in the USA even knows them? Wintersun is a victim to their own success, it's just what happens. If you don't like it that's fine too, but spare it ratings like 1/10 or even 5/10. Because this album is not bad or even mediocre for what is is trying to achieve. Jari achieved exacted what he wanted to with the album, and within that genre (if one even exists), he did very well. I don't go around saying Blind Guardian sucks, because they completely rule their genre and do well within it. I also do not bother rating bands on here that belong to a genre I do not appreciate. It's not right to begin with. To me, the majority of black metal bands out there deserve 1/10 across the board, but in reality it's just that the genre to me deserves a 1/10, personally. As far as that genre is concerned, these bands do very well and some better than others.

Written by mz on 08.06.2012 at 23:55

Good album, but 24th top metal record of all time??!!! don't really think so.It's well done extreme melodic metal, but has almost nothing new.

Written by mz on 09.06.2012 at 00:03

No one mentioned terrible vox? both clean and harsh vocals are among the weakest I've ever heard , like early Ensiferum.


I find it strange and saddening that this album has come off to people as being overrated, when originally the album was a side project by a niche band nobody had heard of. Don't forget this. It was judged then, and should be judged now, by THOSE standards and within it's own genre and history (early ensiferum). The vocals appeal to fans of Jari in the first place, and to the musical style displayed in early ensiferum. The fact that people like you (non-fans) got your hands on this album and are not happy with it is unfortunate, because Wintersun was never supposed to please anyone who didn't like early Ensiferum in the first place. What I think I am witnessing here is a reaction to the success of a very wild cult fascination that is Wintersun. Again the easiest way to put it is by saying that they are a victim of their own success. After seeing so many negative responses I just want to scream back at everyone that "This album was never for you to hear!". Because it simply wasn't. The above poster criticizing Jari's vocals is most likely a troll, and if he isn't, he is extremely uninformed. Wintersun is early Ensiferum as you know it. That is the appeal, end of story.
Troy Killjoy - 03.08.2012 at 04:55  
 
Written by Wes on 03.08.2012 at 04:37
...spare it ratings like 1/10 or even 5/10. Because this album is not bad or even mediocre for what is is trying to achieve. Jari achieved exacted what he wanted to with the album, and within that genre (if one even exists), he did very well.

You can't tell people not to rate this lower than a 6 simply because you think what Jari did here "deserves" more. I don't care if he achieved exactly what he wanted to with this, I personally don't enjoy his little "masterpiece". Although personally I would give it a 6 and not a 5, so thankfully I'm not breaking your rating law.

As for them being hyped, the reason why people around you don't know who Wintersun are is the same reason people around me don't even know who Amon Amarth are: because even some of the most popular metal bands simply aren't popular when it comes down to it. Read up on them (Wintersun) more online (not just fanboy reviews like the ones here) and you'll see that the majority of the metal world online is hyping any future Wintersun releases beyond what many consider to be an acceptable level.
Lit. - 03.08.2012 at 05:01  
 
Written by Wes on 03.08.2012 at 04:37

rant

He achieved what he wanted to achieve, but what noone else wanted: Watered-down Children of Bodom rip-off metal so sugary it would turn a dentist diabetic.

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