I think it needs to have "industrial" somewhere in Lyfthrasyr - The Engineered Flesh.

Written by Karlabos on 02.02.2014 at 20:27

I think it needs to have "industrial" somewhere in Lyfthrasyr - The Engineered Flesh.

you dont add style sin albums but you do it in years there are specialy place (visible only to ppl whit perms)

Are these genre mistakes even being considered? Some of the current tags are overtly inaccurate.

That being said, Karnivool are clearly progressive metal; that tag should at least be applied to their latest.

Written by LeKiwi on 02.02.2014 at 23:09
Are these genre mistakes even being considered? Some of the current tags are overtly inaccurate.

Everything here is being considered. Most of the suggestions I read here aren't exactly more fitting than what we already have so there haven't been many changes.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 02.02.2014 at 23:24
Everything here is being considered. Most of the suggestions I read here aren't exactly more fitting than what we already have so there haven't been many changes.

Fair enough, several are minor nuances, but some of them require drastic change. Amorphis - for example - as Rock/Heavy metal? That's just...no words...

I mean, listen to this:

Written by LeKiwi on 02.02.2014 at 23:29
Amorphis - for example - as Rock/Heavy metal? That's just...no words...

What would you describe them as? Various sites online refer to them as the following: alternative, death/melodic death, heavy, prog, folk, and rock. Rock/heavy metal isn't that far off even though it may not describe their sound perfectly, but at least those tags aren't technically wrong.

Written by Bad English on 02.02.2014 at 20:28

you dont add style sin albums but you do it in years there are specialy place (visible only to ppl whit perms)

Well, yes. That's why I recommended here. If I had the permission, instead of posting on this thread I'd make the change myself =P

Written by Troy Killjoy on 02.02.2014 at 23:35

What would you describe them as? Various sites online refer to them as the following: alternative, death/melodic death, heavy, prog, folk, and rock. Rock/heavy metal isn't that far off even though it may not describe their sound perfectly, but at least those tags aren't technically wrong.

Extreme progressive metal + folk metal. I've had quite some time to think about it

Edit: at least from 2006-

Written by LeKiwi on 02.02.2014 at 23:37
Extreme progressive metal + folk metal. I've had quite some time to think about it

Edit: at least from 2006-

I'm gonna need a lot of convincing to label Amorphis as extreme prog. The folk influences are undeniable, I'll give you that (and will add the tag accordingly) but extreme prog is a huge stretch in my eyes. The only thing "extreme" about Amorphis is Tomi Joutsen's growled vocals - which aren't even utilized the majority of the time.

Written by Karlabos on 02.02.2014 at 23:36
Well, yes. That's why I recommended here. If I had the permission, instead of posting on this thread I'd make the change myself =P

Not sure I'd call them industrial, but I can throw in an "electronic" tag in there for the new album based on some YouTube uploads I've heard and what other reviewers are saying about it.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 02.02.2014 at 23:43
I'm gonna need a lot of convincing to label Amorphis as extreme prog. The folk influences are undeniable, I'll give you that (and will add the tag accordingly) but extreme prog is a huge stretch in my eyes. The only thing "extreme" about Amorphis is Tomi Joutsen's growled vocals - which aren't even utilized the majority of the time.

Yea, that's understandable. Although progressive usually refers to ambitious compositions with multiple time signature/tempo/key changes, it also encompasses the concept of employing several genres in one style.

The extreme part is the real stretch, but I hear numerous riffs with death and melodeath influences, if not in style then in key, i.e. from their latest album pretty much every tune has some extreme vibe to it, especially Shades Of Grey, Hopeless Days, Nightbird's Song, and Dead Man's Dream. I could give plenty more examples if you like, although the latest album is the most extreme.

Written by LeKiwi on 02.02.2014 at 23:54
I could give plenty more examples if you like, although the latest album is the most extreme.

No need for examples, I'm actually really familiar with the Amorphis discography. How about:

1992-1993 - death
1994-1998 - melodic death, folk, prog
1999-2005 - folk, prog
2006-present - melodic death, folk, prog

That way prog sticks around (because, like you said, the way they infuse other genres together is in itself a progressive approach even if the compositions are slightly more straightforward than most prog bands) and the melodeath gives you your "extremity" with folk influences being a constant after their debut.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.02.2014 at 00:03
No need for examples, I'm actually really familiar with the Amorphis discography. How about:

1992-1993 - death
1994-1998 - melodic death, folk, prog
1999-2005 - folk, prog
2006-present - melodic death, folk, prog

That way prog sticks around (because, like you said, the way they infuse other genres together is in itself a progressive approach even if the compositions are slightly more straightforward than most prog bands) and the melodeath gives you your "extremity" with folk influences being a constant after their debut.

It's...perfect...I think I'm going to tear up a little...it's actually happening

Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.02.2014 at 00:03

Written by LeKiwi on 02.02.2014 at 23:54
I could give plenty more examples if you like, although the latest album is the most extreme.

No need for examples, I'm actually really familiar with the Amorphis discography. How about:

1992-1993 - death
1994-1998 - melodic death, folk, prog
1999-2005 - folk, prog
2006-present - melodic death, folk, prog

That way prog sticks around (because, like you said, the way they infuse other genres together is in itself a progressive approach even if the compositions are slightly more straightforward than most prog bands) and the melodeath gives you your "extremity" with folk influences being a constant after their debut.

1994 - 1000 lakes are not folk, prog, maybe maybe little touches but its only melo death

Written by Bad English on 03.02.2014 at 00:26
1994 - 1000 lakes are not folk, prog, maybe maybe little touches but its only melo death

Only melodeath? I disagree, and here are some reviewers who disagree as well:

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/31946/Amorphis-Tales-From-the-Thousand-Lakes/ (progressive compositions)
http://www.globaldomination.se/reviews/amorphis-tales-from-the-thousand-lakes (doom vibe)
http://www.deadtide.com/reviews/albums/page.php?id=1530 (folk elements)
http://www.deathmetal.org/bands/amorphis/amorphis-tales_from_the_thousand_lakes/ (progressive compositions)
http://www.seaoftranquility.org/reviews.php?op=showcontent&id=2039 (progressive and doomy)
http://www.allmusic.com/album/tales-from-the-thousand-lakes-mw0000124775 (progressive compositions)

Unfortunately not as many reviews out there as I'd like, but that's what happens when you're looking for people writing about an album that's 20 years old.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 03.02.2014 at 00:47

Written by Bad English on 03.02.2014 at 00:26
1994 - 1000 lakes are not folk, prog, maybe maybe little touches but its only melo death

Only melodeath? I disagree, and here are some reviewers who disagree as well:

http://www.sputnikmusic.com/review/31946/Amorphis-Tales-From-the-Thousand-Lakes/ (progressive compositions)
http://www.globaldomination.se/reviews/amorphis-tales-from-the-thousand-lakes (doom vibe)
http://www.deadtide.com/reviews/albums/page.php?id=1530 (folk elements)
http://www.deathmetal.org/bands/amorphis/amorphis-tales_from_the_thousand_lakes/ (progressive compositions)
http://www.seaoftranquility.org/reviews.php?op=showcontent&id=2039 (progressive and doomy)
http://www.allmusic.com/album/tales-from-the-thousand-lakes-mw0000124775 (progressive compositions)

Unfortunately not as many reviews out there as I'd like, but that's what happens when you're looking for people writing about an album that's 20 years old.

have you listen it , well there are elements but not sos trong to it be as genre

Good to see the Amorphis styles have some progress, though it could still do some clean-up. "Progressive folk metal" is an actual style tag in use for other bands:

1990 - 1993 Death metal
1994 - 1998 Melodic death metal
1994 - 1998 Progressive folk metal
1999 - 2005 Progressive metal
2006 - Progressive folk metal
2006 - Melodic death metal

Tales... and Black Winter Day EP are definitely folk metal because of the prominent Kalevala theme, and prog isn't terribly wrong because some of it was rather forward-thinking. Folk is pretty much gone from 1999 - 2005, even though there's the flute on one song.

Written by Risto on 03.02.2014 at 11:58
Good to see the Amorphis styles have some progress, though it could still do some clean-up. "Progressive folk metal" is an actual style tag in use for other bands:

1990 - 1993 Death metal
1994 - 1998 Melodic death metal
1994 - 1998 Progressive folk metal
1999 - 2005 Progressive metal
2006 - Progressive folk metal
2006 - Melodic death metal

Tales... and Black Winter Day EP are definitely folk metal because of the prominent Kalevala theme, and prog isn't terribly wrong because some of it was rather forward-thinking. Folk is pretty much gone from 1999 - 2005, even though there's the flute on one song.

Despite being an Amorphis fan for many years now, I still haven't properly heard the albums from '99-'03, so I can't really comment on that...yet. Listening to them now and I'll see what I think.

Edit: I think it ranges from prog rock to prog metal, but the folk elements remain imo. The instruments may not be used as frequently, but the scales are.

Whispered and Wintersun should have folk somewhere in their genre tag.

Written by LeKiwi on 03.02.2014 at 17:58
Whispered and Wintersun should have folk somewhere in their genre tag.

Should they? From what I can remember Whispered sound like Bodom but with some traditional Asian instruments and Wintersun basically sound like a somewhat progressive extreme prog band - I don't remember any folk elements in their sound.

Written by LeKiwi on 03.02.2014 at 17:26
Edit: I think it ranges from prog rock to prog metal, but the folk elements remain imo. The instruments may not be used as frequently, but the scales are.

Also, regarding Amorphis, a bit of a compromise here for everyone:

Past:
1990-1993 Death metal
1994-1998 Melodic death metal
1999-2005 Progressive metal
Current:
1994-present Progressive folk metal
2006-present Melodic death metal

Not a fan of the somewhat redundant prog tag for '99 - '05, however. I'd like to split up prog and folk again. Thoughts?

Written by Troy Killjoy on 04.02.2014 at 00:58
Not a fan of the somewhat redundant prog tag for '99 - '05, however. I'd like to split up prog and folk again. Thoughts?

Definitely redundant, I'd just remove the progressive metal tag from '99-'05 because I still hear the folk influences.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 04.02.2014 at 00:49
Should they? From what I can remember Whispered sound like Bodom but with some traditional Asian instruments and Wintersun basically sound like a somewhat progressive extreme prog band - I don't remember any folk elements in their sound.

Wintersun's folk influences take form in the scales they use when writing, very folky stuff imo. They can be compared to Ensiferum, and considering Jari was part of that band for a while I'm not surprised the influences carried over. Whispered's use of far eastern instruments is quite prominent so I'd say that's folky in it self. I guess we should come to a consensus what constitutes as folk metal.

I'd most definitely agree with you that Wintersun is proggy so I would very much like to see the progressive metal tag on their page

Written by LeKiwi on 04.02.2014 at 01:17
I'd most definitely agree with you that Wintersun is proggy so I would very much like to see the progressive metal tag on their page

I'll look around and see what other people have to say (reviews and other databases) for the folk tags. As for Wintersun, I'll throw prog in there for now unless others take issue with it.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 04.02.2014 at 01:38
I'll look around and see what other people have to say (reviews and other databases) for the folk tags. As for Wintersun, I'll throw prog in there for now unless others take issue with it.

This might be biased, but a good place to start. They mention folk quite a bit in the reviews.

Troy, you're the black metal master, what do you think of Tribulation's Formula's Of Death? I think it's mostly progressive black metal with bits of thrash and death thrown in - along the lines of progressive black metal or extreme progressive metal.

Written by LeKiwi on 04.02.2014 at 23:00
Troy, you're the black metal master, what do you think of Tribulation's Formula's Of Death? I think it's mostly progressive black metal with bits of thrash and death thrown in - along the lines of progressive black metal or extreme progressive metal.

(Definitely not the black metal master, just for the record.) As for Tribulation... fuck if I know how to set that up properly. It's basically like every kind of extreme metal combined with prog. I think we'd need to get some kind of consensus with more than just me and you coming to a compromise in this thread.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 04.02.2014 at 23:02
(Definitely not the black metal master, just for the record.) As for Tribulation... fuck if I know how to set that up properly. It's basically like every kind of extreme metal combined with prog. I think we'd need to get some kind of consensus with more than just me and you coming to a compromise in this thread.

Damn, I thought....

Quote:
A Metal Storm Staff member and official reviewer since 2011, Troy is well-trained in the art of black metal and mockery.

...no it must have slipped my mind, no idea what that was all about

Sounds fair enough. I wrote on the album thread, but there's clearly a disagreement over the genre thing. The most comprehensive tag you could put would be extreme progressive metal, because that just covers every damn element of their music

Written by LeKiwi on 05.02.2014 at 00:39
Sounds fair enough. I wrote on the album thread, but there's clearly a disagreement over the genre thing. The most comprehensive tag you could put would be extreme progressive metal, because that just covers every damn element of their music

Thanks for the reminder, I should probably change that bio box since I'm not a Staff member anymore. As for Tribulation, extreme prog would align them with the likes of Opeth and I don't think there's enough similarities between the two to have them come up together in a genre search. Something more like progressive death + black metal would be more fitting in my eyes. However it looks ultimately, their tags should include those three genres (black/death/prog) one way or another.

Written by Troy Killjoy on 05.02.2014 at 00:49
Thanks for the reminder, I should probably change that bio box since I'm not a Staff member anymore. As for Tribulation, extreme prog would align them with the likes of Opeth and I don't think there's enough similarities between the two to have them come up together in a genre search. Something more like progressive death + black metal would be more fitting in my eyes. However it looks ultimately, their tags should include those three genres (black/death/prog) one way or another.

Prog black and prog black then? Imo, they sound like a progressive Watain with a few touches of death here and there - not what you'd expect when you hear progressive death though